Religion classes in school - Megathread

hiddendriver34 said:Look, this debate has been chewed over a million times already, so I don’t have much to add—but my take is pretty simple: religious studies just doesn't belong in the public school system.

That said, my kid is actually enrolled in it.

Back in first grade, we signed him up mainly to sidestep all the political drama surrounding the topic for a while.

Beyond the fact that we weren't sure what the school's logistics were—like where he’d even go if he didn't attend—we just wanted him to experience it for one year. We didn't want it to feel like some mysterious, forbidden subject he wasn't allowed to touch; we wanted him to get a feel for it so he could make his own choice later on.

He was a little torn this summer, but he ultimately decided he wants to stick with it this year too.

At the end of the day, the call is his. As long as he wants to go, we're behind him. If he decides to quit, we're behind him there, too (unless someone starts preaching that being gay is a sin or something along those lines—then the decision shifts back to me. 😉)

By the way, since I’ve been spending quite a bit of time lately scrolling through political forums, I noticed that one specific party is the only smart one to openly state that religious education shouldn't be part of the school curriculum. It seems like nobody else has the guts to say it out loud—so just be careful who you're voting for this Sunday.😉

Mine went for one hour and then the school told us they won't continue.

For the rest of the year, his teacher is giving them extra math help instead. And honestly, I'm grateful for that.

silentraven6 said:Mine went for one hour and then the school told us they won't continue.

For the rest of the year, his teacher is giving them extra math help instead. And honestly, I'm grateful for that.

👍

I really wanted that choice to be his. If I don't sign him up in first grade, it feels like I'm making the call for him—like I'm the one shielding him from something he might actually need.

And with our kids, the teacher handles all the math stuff.

As for the religious studies teacher, she seems like this totally disorganized woman who can't command a room to save her life. The kids end up loving that class because they basically turn it into a total circus.

My kid stuck with it for the first two years before deciding he was just totally over it.

Look, I’ve always felt that religious instruction shouldn't be baked directly into the standard curriculum, but I don't think it would be a bad idea to design some kind of "world religions" course or something similar—just a way to introduce kids to the foundational beliefs of the major faiths we see here in America, along with a bit about what people believe on the other side of the globe. No matter how much we might grumble about faith or organized religion, the reality is that it has shaped pretty much everything throughout history—our literature, our music, our art in general—and honestly, it wouldn't hurt for students to have a basic grasp of that if they want to actually understand how the world works. That said, I really do think it's far too early to even touch these topics when they're still in those lower elementary grades.

Michael Lee75 said:My kid stuck with it for the first two years before deciding he was just totally over it.

Look, I’ve always felt that religious instruction shouldn't be baked directly into the standard curriculum, but I don't think it would be a bad idea to design some kind of "world religions" course or something similar—just a way to introduce kids to the foundational beliefs of the major faiths we see here in America, along with a bit about what people believe on the other side of the globe. No matter how much we might grumble about faith or organized religion, the reality is that it has shaped pretty much everything throughout history—our literature, our music, our art in general—and honestly, it wouldn't hurt for students to have a basic grasp of that if they want to actually understand how the world works. That said, I really do think it's far too early to even touch these topics when they're still in those lower elementary grades.

Man, I'd actually want that as a class—like a full overview of all the major religions.

Nicole James said:Not to mention how often the people working these offices are your actual neighbors or acquaintances—which basically means you’re outing yourself to the entire town.

Nah... that just means you should be embarrassed of yourself for being different. ☕

I would truly love for my children to have the opportunity to pursue extracurricular enrichment in areas like music, language, and religion. I’m not looking for anything forced, though—especially when it comes to the religious aspect. By "forced," I mean I wouldn't want religious studies integrated into the standard curriculum at any time other than perhaps the final period of the day, and certainly not listed as a graded subject alongside their core academic requirements.

James Alvarez2 said:Planning on ignoring me again? 😬

I'm a practicing believer, I just don't want religious ed in public schools.
Does that make me against my own faith? 😲

My bad... I must have totally missed your post...

Why though???

I already laid out my reasons for why I DON'T want religious education stripped from the curriculum...

And honestly, not a single practical believer has given me a solid reason why they actually want it gone.

nimblelynx7 said:I wouldn't bet on that. I’ve spent enough time in a major city to know how things work, but out in some tiny, ultra-conservative rural town? It's a different world entirely. People there aren't exactly itching to go against the grain.

And while certain people just sit there silently, unable to do a single thing...
That's just how it is, and it's staying that way.

☕

silentraven6 said:Mine went for one hour and then the school told us they won't continue.

For the rest of the year, his teacher is giving them extra math help instead. And honestly, I'm grateful for that.

And that's totally fine.....

hiddendriver34 said:Look, this debate has been chewed over a million times already, so I don’t have much to add—but my take is pretty simple: religious studies just doesn't belong in the public school system.

That said, my kid is actually enrolled in it.

Back in first grade, we signed him up mainly to sidestep all the political drama surrounding the topic for a while.

Beyond the fact that we weren't sure what the school's logistics were—like where he’d even go if he didn't attend—we just wanted him to experience it for one year. We didn't want it to feel like some mysterious, forbidden subject he wasn't allowed to touch; we wanted him to get a feel for it so he could make his own choice later on.

He was a little torn this summer, but he ultimately decided he wants to stick with it this year too.

At the end of the day, the call is his. As long as he wants to go, we're behind him. If he decides to quit, we're behind him there, too (unless someone starts preaching that being gay is a sin or something along those lines—then the decision shifts back to me. 😉)

By the way, since I’ve been spending quite a bit of time lately scrolling through political forums, I noticed that one specific party is the only smart one to openly state that religious education shouldn't be part of the school curriculum. It seems like nobody else has the guts to say it out loud—so just be careful who you're voting for this Sunday.😉

And look...... I don't know how it's going at his school now..... but they covered stories from the Old and New Testaments, learned prayers, the Ten Commandments, etc...

They weren't debating homosexuality or anything like that...

So, did any of that even apply here????

Eventually, the kid is gonna run into the fact that certain faiths don't support gay people.....
Then, whether he still likes religion class or not—that's his call...

I mean, if you've already let him make his own choice (even if you don't fully agree with Catholic doctrine), then I think it would be fair to let him decide for himself what to do with religion class when he eventually finds out that Catholicism isn't pro-gay. 🤔

Michael Lee75 said:My kid stuck with it for the first two years before deciding he was just totally over it.

Look, I’ve always felt that religious instruction shouldn't be baked directly into the standard curriculum, but I don't think it would be a bad idea to design some kind of "world religions" course or something similar—just a way to introduce kids to the foundational beliefs of the major faiths we see here in America, along with a bit about what people believe on the other side of the globe. No matter how much we might grumble about faith or organized religion, the reality is that it has shaped pretty much everything throughout history—our literature, our music, our art in general—and honestly, it wouldn't hurt for students to have a basic grasp of that if they want to actually understand how the world works. That said, I really do think it's far too early to even touch these topics when they're still in those lower elementary grades.

Man, I love this...
I'm totally on board with my kids learning about different religions, customs, and all that stuff too.
At the end of the day, I'm raising them to respect everyone, regardless of who they are or what they believe in.

One of my absolute best friends is Muslim... and she's honestly one of the best people I know.

She respects my faith just as much as I respect hers.

shadowcrane91 said:I don't know what school looks like these days... but when we were kids, we covered stories from the Old and New Testaments, learned prayers, the Ten Commandments, and stuff like that.

We didn't sit around debating homosexuality or anything.

Does any of that even apply here?

Eventually, a kid is going to run into the fact that certain faiths don't support gay people...
And at that point, whether they still love religious studies or not—well, that’s on them.

Look, if you've already let him make his own choices (even if you don't totally agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches), then I think it would be fair to let him decide for himself what to do with religion once he realizes Catholicism doesn't support gay people.🤔

Huh?😕

Of course a kid is going to learn that some religions don't support gay people, just like they'll learn that Hitler didn't support Jewish people. You could easily teach that in a hypothetical World Religions class.

But if someone tries to force the idea onto him as absolute doctrine during Catholic religious education, then absolutely not—I won't allow that. There's no dilemma there at all.

William Bennett53 said:I would truly love for my children to have the opportunity to pursue extracurricular enrichment in areas like music, language, and religion. I’m not looking for anything forced, though—especially when it comes to the religious aspect. By "forced," I mean I wouldn't want religious studies integrated into the standard curriculum at any time other than perhaps the final period of the day, and certainly not listed as a graded subject alongside their core academic requirements.

Look, I'm 100% with you that faith shouldn't be part of a student's GPA, but I am all for making religious studies an elective. Since faith is a choice, why not make the class an elective? That way, we don't just scrap the program entirely from schools.
Honestly, if there's a decent number of kids from different backgrounds, just offer their specific faiths as electives too—if someone wants to go, let 'em go.

hiddendriver34 said:Huh?😕

Of course a kid is going to learn that some religions don't support gay people, just like they'll learn that Hitler didn't support Jewish people. You could easily teach that in a hypothetical World Religions class.

But if someone tries to force the idea onto him as absolute doctrine during Catholic religious education, then absolutely not—I won't allow that. There's no dilemma there at all.

I mean... I grew up going to Sunday school and we never even touched stuff like that... (gay rights, politics, etc. My teacher never once brought those topics up, and it's not like I'm ancient so it wasn't decades ago 😂)😉

I'm just telling you what my experience was...
We talked about Bible stories and stuff like that...
Learned our prayers and everything...

So can anyone actually answer if things have changed? Are kids actually being taught something different now, or is this whole thing just a massive outcry over nothing?

shadowcrane91 said:Look, I'm 100% with you that faith shouldn't be part of a student's GPA, but I am all for making religious studies an elective. Since faith is a choice, why not make the class an elective? That way, we don't just scrap the program entirely from schools.
Honestly, if there's a decent number of kids from different backgrounds, just offer their specific faiths as electives too—if someone wants to go, let 'em go.

Even as an elective, the current setup isn't quite right. It ought to be an extracurricular activity offered on campus for those who actually want it. Why should someone who has no interest in religious studies—perhaps because they are an atheist or belong to a minority denomination that isn't large enough to warrant a dedicated program—be forced to sit through an ethics class instead? Why couldn't they choose to study trumpet, model building, advanced math, creative writing, or any of the other extracurriculars the school provides? Furthermore, why should a gradebook include a subject taught by someone who isn't even a standard employee of the school or the Department of Education—someone whose very position is secured by a Bishop and can be revoked at his whim?

I would happily suggest a course on world religions or something similar to my own child. However, I suspect organized religious groups would be the first ones to protest a curriculum that teaches children about the perspectives of other faiths independently.

Look, I’m all for that—and I'm definitely on board with not giving religion a grade...
The only thing I don't agree with is cutting it from the curriculum entirely. Personally, I actually love that my kids get to take those classes....

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shadowcrane91 said:So what's the damn problem???

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There is absolutely an issue, but I have already provided a direct rebuttal to the Orlandian's post. I am telling her quite clearly that her claims are simply incorrect; in the schools where I actually work, religious studies are integrated into the standard schedule just like any other core subject—it happens during regular school hours, not just relegated to some arbitrary first period in elementary school.

Frank Flores63 said:Religious education is organized so that it takes place during the 8th or 9th period, or perhaps the 1st period in elementary schools. This ensures that nobody is left wandering through the hallways while religious instruction is being held.
In high schools, religious studies run parallel to ethics classes, so there aren't any issues there at all.

I honestly cannot believe we are still having these kinds of debates.
Religious education is taught by either degreed theologians or degreed catechists. The former completed a five-year program, and the latter a four-year degree.
They have taken pedagogical courses, studied didactics, and mastered methodology, which unquestionably puts them on the same level as any other teacher.

Besides, just look at the USA and how much they demand theology teachers, so to speak. Nobody is out there demanding teachers for American literature or history.
😁

Since we are talking about problems—let me be blunt: K-12 education is mandatory for all children. While kids are physically present at school, they are required to be following a legitimate curriculum designed for their development. Sitting around in a library staring blankly at a screen is not "education." Furthermore, it is not the job of the school librarian to act as a babysitter, nor do they have a structured academic program to offer those students. It would be a completely different story if, during religious studies, there were actual alternative coursework provided—like Ethics classes in high school—for those who aren't participating in the religious program.

shadowcrane91 said:Nah... that just means you should be embarrassed of yourself for being different. ☕

Actually, no—it’s more about not wanting to deal with the broken windows, the poisoned pets, the kids getting bullied, and all those other "perks" that come along with being different.

It’s actually quite straightforward.
The core question is whether ideology has any business being in our classrooms at all.
Religion, by its very nature, is an ideological matter—whether one believes or doesn't.
And because of that, there shouldn't be a place for it in school, whether it's an elective or a requirement.

William Bennett53 said:Even as an elective, the current setup isn't quite right. It ought to be an extracurricular activity offered on campus for those who actually want it. Why should someone who has no interest in religious studies—perhaps because they are an atheist or belong to a minority denomination that isn't large enough to warrant a dedicated program—be forced to sit through an ethics class instead? Why couldn't they choose to study trumpet, model building, advanced math, creative writing, or any of the other extracurriculars the school provides? Furthermore, why should a gradebook include a subject taught by someone who isn't even a standard employee of the school or the Department of Education—someone whose very position is secured by a Bishop and can be revoked at his whim?

I would happily suggest a course on world religions or something similar to my own child. However, I suspect organized religious groups would be the first ones to protest a curriculum that teaches children about the perspectives of other faiths independently.

Bravo.

shadowcrane91 said:I don't know what the deal is with my posts, other than the fact that you clearly hate my opinion.
Foreign languages, drama, and other extracurriculars are also offered at school (at least in mine—my kids start tomorrow)—so you don't actually *have* to drive them anywhere (unless your specific school doesn't offer that stuff)....

The real issue here isn't religious ed itself; it's the total lack of organization within the school system.

But nope... people love blaming the religious classes....

Personally, I’m actually glad it’s offered at school....

I don't know any school where a first grader can take two different foreign languages simultaneously (without paying extra for them during after-school care?)

In most schools, the primary language is English, so if you want your child to learn German or French, you have to drive them to a different school.
And we're talking about a major city like Chicago here.
In some small rural towns, you get one language and that's it.
And then there's religious ed.

Learning a foreign language is just a wish of mine—wanting my kid to pick it up while they're still young and soak it up easily—just like your wish is for them to get some spiritual guidance. Even without an extra language or religious studies, kids will still get a basic education. So why can you fulfill your wish for free at school, but I can't?
Why do I have to pay for that second language, but you don't have to pay for religious ed?
Why do I have to spend time that I'd rather spend with my child just driving her to activities, while she was supposed to be "free" at school, only to be watched by a secretary, a specialist, or heaven knows who else?
Why do you get that privilege and I don't?
Do you pay more in taxes, or do you owe the US government something more than I do to have that priority?

You talk about how something needs to be organized for the kids not taking religious ed during those hours.
Who is going to run that, and who is going to pay for it?
An outside language school (which, let's face it, parents pay a lot for to cover after-school programs) isn't allowed to hold classes during religious ed for various reasons set by the Department of Education, and also so that the kids who *do* need religious ed can participate equally.
It's the same deal with extra help or advanced classes in subjects like math, which teachers should ideally provide to everyone who needs it; if they're running an advanced class, any student wanting to learn more should be able to attend. If they're running remedial sessions, it shouldn't happen that a kid struggling with math misses out because it overlaps with religious ed.
I'm personally not okay with teachers getting paid by parents while they're essentially "babysitting" the kids in religious ed. And that's what happens. I don't want my kid listening to their classmates' grades, behavior reports, or whatever else.

I hate to say it, but I don't see a single argument for the benefit of having religious ed in public schools, aside from a massive headache for organization and funding.
Actually, the only "benefit" I see is convenience for parents and creating extra jobs.

And that's where all your practical faith falls apart.
🤷