Religion classes in school - Megathread

William Bennett53 said:shadowcrane91, would you care to attempt a definition of what it actually means to be a Catholic?

I could, but I honestly can't be bothered right now...
It's taking way too much out of me 🙂
Maybe tomorrow when my phone has more than 5% battery left.

shadowcrane91 said:I could, but I honestly can't be bothered right now...
It's taking way too much out of me 🙂
Maybe tomorrow when my phone has more than 5% battery left.

It shouldn't be that difficult; once you know the headcount, you ought to know who they are, but fine. I will wait for your reply. 🙂

silentraven6 said:It's just like how most people claim to be Americans but can't even grasp the basics of their own language; should we really start writing like that uneducated majority? Or shouldn't we...

Regarding my point, it's about the fact that they aren't being taught about faith, empathy, compassion, or not taking God's name in vain. And it's about not praying for bad things to happen.

I don't know... I went to religion class for years and I never heard teachers talking about any of this stuff you're bringing up....
Maybe things have changed since then....

And honestly, if someone's actually bothered by being listed as Catholic, they can just uncheck the box. No need for all this drama and throwing stones.

shadowcrane91 said:I don't know... I went to religion class for years and I never heard teachers talking about any of this stuff you're bringing up....
Maybe things have changed since then....

And honestly, if someone's actually bothered by being listed as Catholic, they can just uncheck the box. No need for all this drama and throwing stones.

You’re talking about "opting out" as if religious affiliation were membership in some social club or a political party. Where exactly is this registry you're referring to? Does the Church even maintain one? If you're talking about the Census, that covers everything under the sun; you can't exactly rely on those numbers to dictate policy until there's even a clear definition of what constitutes a Catholic.

Matthew Young35 said:Of course I'm not.
I really don't have the patience to deal with some bureaucratic census committee. Honestly, I’ve had enough. I already had to wait five hours just to submit a request for a damn driver's license last month.

I think we can call this debate over right here....

You're complaining about being registered, but you aren't doing a single thing to change that...
I don't know if you actually can, but you haven't even bothered to look into it.

William Bennett53 said:You’re talking about "opting out" as if religious affiliation were membership in some social club or a political party. Where exactly is this registry you're referring to? Does the Church even maintain one? If you're talking about the Census, that covers everything under the sun; you can't exactly rely on those numbers to dictate policy until there's even a clear definition of what constitutes a Catholic.

Beyond that, we have to ask what this self-identification actually signifies.
I personally know plenty of people who identify as Catholic but would be the first ones protesting religious education in public schools.

William Bennett53 said:You’re talking about "opting out" as if religious affiliation were membership in some social club or a political party. Where exactly is this registry you're referring to? Does the Church even maintain one? If you're talking about the Census, that covers everything under the sun; you can't exactly rely on those numbers to dictate policy until there's even a clear definition of what constitutes a Catholic.

Belonging means being part of a religious community....
I haven't tried it myself (and neither have the people whining about it), but I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to walk away if they aren't feeling it anymore.

William Bennett53 said:You’re talking about "opting out" as if religious affiliation were membership in some social club or a political party. Where exactly is this registry you're referring to? Does the Church even maintain one? If you're talking about the Census, that covers everything under the sun; you can't exactly rely on those numbers to dictate policy until there's even a clear definition of what constitutes a Catholic.

Where is this registry???
Who knows. I don't care enough about changing my own religious affiliation to have looked into it...
But there has to be some document somewhere used to pull the percentage of Catholics...

You can clearly see there are people who were checked off by someone else and they don't even care. (At least they haven't done anything to fix it.)

shadowcrane91 said:I don't know... I went to religion class for years and I never heard teachers talking about any of this stuff you're bringing up....
Maybe things have changed since then....

And honestly, if someone's actually bothered by being listed as Catholic, they can just uncheck the box. No need for all this drama and throwing stones.

We're clearly talking about two different things here.

Try reading for comprehension.

It's an issue of language.

Jesus was part of a minority, too.

Matthew Young35 said:Beyond that, we have to ask what this self-identification actually signifies.
I personally know plenty of people who identify as Catholic but would be the first ones protesting religious education in public schools.

There you go... how does someone claim to be Catholic and then actively work against their own faith's teachings????
Seriously, how????
Everyone else is out there trying to spread the word, yet these self-proclaimed Catholics are just suffocating their own beliefs....

It's like they don't even know who they are or what they stand for!

shadowcrane91 said:Belonging means being part of a religious community....
I haven't tried it myself (and neither have the people whining about it), but I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to walk away if they aren't feeling it anymore.

Where is this registry???
Who knows. I don't care enough about changing my own religious affiliation to have looked into it...
But there has to be some document somewhere used to pull the percentage of Catholics...

You can clearly see there are people who were checked off by someone else and they don't even care. (At least they haven't done anything to fix it.)

Unsubscribe from what, exactly? There is no official registry, no exclusive club, no cohesive group beyond a collection of people with shared interests—and even then, those interests are incredibly diverse.
There isn't really anything to "opt out" of, and besides, we need a more reliable metric than just raw numbers. A census is just as flawed a measurement as counting heads in a church pew.
We won't truly know how many Catholics there are until, following the model of some more advanced nations, religious funding is based on direct tax contributions from members of those specific communities. Only then would the IRS maintain an actual registry. Until that happens, appealing to the majority of the country's citizens as a way to validate support is nothing more than an attempt at intimidation.

And there it is... how can one Catholic be at odds with the teachings of their own faith?

Now, purely for your sake rather than for the sake of this debate, I would appreciate it if you could define exactly what constitutes a Catholic.

shadowcrane91 said:I haven't heard of anyone actually trying to opt out of the census because someone else signed them up incorrectly...

Are you talking about yourself??

Well, I actually went out of my way to deregister myself—since they falsely listed me as Catholic. So, there you go, you've finally heard something.🙂

So, Tim Cook, I’ve been wondering how spending hours bickering on an internet forum fits into a Catholic upbringing, especially when it falls on a Sunday. Wouldn't you think it'd be more important to actually spend some quality time with your kids? On a day like this, at least.

shadowcrane91 said:There you go... how does someone claim to be Catholic and then actively work against their own faith's teachings????
Seriously, how????
Everyone else is out there trying to spread the word, yet these self-proclaimed Catholics are just suffocating their own beliefs....

It's like they don't even know who they are or what they stand for!

Give me a break.
Since when has it been a core dogma of the Catholic Church that religious education must be mandated in public schools?

It honestly feels like you have no grasp of Catholic doctrine whatsoever.
At the very least, you're making it obvious that you haven't done your homework.

Truman said:I haven't heard a single soul mention being removed from the list just because someone else signed them up...

Are you talking about yourself????

I actually went to the registration center to "un-baptize" myself. Not a huge deal—takes maybe 15 minutes—but the look of pure shock and confusion on the woman's face behind the desk? Priceless.

General comment regarding several recent posts:

Some people on this forum claim that school religious ed and church services are separate things. In my experience, they never were. If you wanted to take Communion or go through Kris, you had to attend religious classes at both the school and the church from first through eighth grade. At the end of the year, you had exams at the church. If you failed, you couldn't move up the next year; you had to repeat the grade through the parish program. Before the big milestones—Communion and Kris—there were major exams you had to pass if you wanted to participate.

Now that Kris happens during sophomore year of high school, I’m hearing that students actually have to provide documentation from their high school to prove they are enrolled in religious studies instead of ethics class.

shadowcrane91 said:There you go... how does someone claim to be Catholic and then actively work against their own faith's teachings????
Seriously, how????
Everyone else is out there trying to spread the word, yet these self-proclaimed Catholics are just suffocating their own beliefs....

It's like they don't even know who they are or what they stand for!

So, it’s basically a given then—not everyone claiming to be Catholic actually lives by the faith? ☕

nimblelynx7 said:I actually went to the registration center to "un-baptize" myself. Not a huge deal—takes maybe 15 minutes—but the look of pure shock and confusion on the woman's face behind the desk? Priceless.

General comment regarding several recent posts:

Some people on this forum claim that school religious ed and church services are separate things. In my experience, they never were. If you wanted to take Communion or go through Kris, you had to attend religious classes at both the school and the church from first through eighth grade. At the end of the year, you had exams at the church. If you failed, you couldn't move up the next year; you had to repeat the grade through the parish program. Before the big milestones—Communion and Kris—there were major exams you had to pass if you wanted to participate.

Now that Kris happens during sophomore year of high school, I’m hearing that students actually have to provide documentation from their high school to prove they are enrolled in religious studies instead of ethics class.

Not to mention how often the people working these offices are your actual neighbors or acquaintances—which basically means you’re outing yourself to the entire town.

shadowcrane91 said:There you go... how does someone claim to be Catholic and then actively work against their own faith's teachings????
Seriously, how????
Everyone else is out there trying to spread the word, yet these self-proclaimed Catholics are just suffocating their own beliefs....

It's like they don't even know who they are or what they stand for!

Planning on ignoring me again? 😬

I'm a practicing believer, I just don't want religious ed in public schools.
Does that make me against my own faith? 😲

I wouldn't bet on that. I’ve spent enough time in a major city to know how things work, but out in some tiny, ultra-conservative rural town? It's a different world entirely. People there aren't exactly itching to go against the grain.

Look, this debate has been chewed over a million times already, so I don’t have much to add—but my take is pretty simple: religious studies just doesn't belong in the public school system.

That said, my kid is actually enrolled in it.

Back in first grade, we signed him up mainly to sidestep all the political drama surrounding the topic for a while.

Beyond the fact that we weren't sure what the school's logistics were—like where he’d even go if he didn't attend—we just wanted him to experience it for one year. We didn't want it to feel like some mysterious, forbidden subject he wasn't allowed to touch; we wanted him to get a feel for it so he could make his own choice later on.

He was a little torn this summer, but he ultimately decided he wants to stick with it this year too.

At the end of the day, the call is his. As long as he wants to go, we're behind him. If he decides to quit, we're behind him there, too (unless someone starts preaching that being gay is a sin or something along those lines—then the decision shifts back to me. 😉)

By the way, since I’ve been spending quite a bit of time lately scrolling through political forums, I noticed that one specific party is the only smart one to openly state that religious education shouldn't be part of the school curriculum. It seems like nobody else has the guts to say it out loud—so just be careful who you're voting for this Sunday.😉