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Are some people just born with a natural edge, or is it something more?

Started by Sarah Ruiz852 · · 👁 5 views · 116 replies

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Participants Sarah Ruiz852Nicholas Gonzalez8Michael Gonzalez77slycyclist26steelmarlin19Benjamin Taylor6Jacob Cooper5placidhawk21darkcanyon10redbear2Keith Miller30Matthew Anderson4Kate King4hollowpuma762rustymaker3Robert Jones4mistymoose12wiredraven82Paul Thompson3Daniel Castillo11Dennis Bennett28Grace Diaz86William Roberts3frozengull2 …
Michael Gonzalez77 Michael Gonzalez77 Active Member
234 messages
joined Feb 2015
#21 ·
“Aristotle taught us that there is an unmoved Entelechy at the heart of the universe—a driving force where thought serves as its primary attribute. I truly believe the entire cosmos is interconnected, both in its physical structure and its spiritual essence. There is a core within the universe from which we draw all our strength and inspiration; it’s a constant pull, and I can feel the power and values it radiates to maintain universal balance. I haven't fully unlocked the secrets of this core, but when I try to define it physically, I think of it as light. When I try to grasp it spiritually, it reveals itself as beauty and compassion. Anyone who holds this conviction feels a sense of true strength. Their work becomes a source of joy because they realize they are just one note in a vast, universal harmony.”

~ Nikola Tesla
redbear2 redbear2 Active Member
84 messages
joined Oct 2014
#22 ·
Michael Gonzalez77 said:Are you really feeling that inadequate? Is that why you need to play amateur psychologist and tear others down on this forum just to soothe your own conscience? That’s a pretty strange impulse to have...

Not quite. I’m just making an observation.

I don't see any other reason why people would credit success to some imaginary entity or the "chosen one" narrative.

My point is that someone's success belongs to them—it's their own doing, not the result of some higher power picking them out of a crowd. On the flip side, a lot of people in this thread try to diminish what people have actually achieved by chalking it up to fate, destiny, or whatever else they want to call it.

"He isn't special because of his hard work; he was just chosen. If he had picked me, I'd be special too." Give me a break. 👏
Michael Gonzalez77 Michael Gonzalez77 Active Member
234 messages
joined Feb 2015
#23 ·
redbear2 said:Not quite. I’m just making an observation.

I don't see any other reason why people would credit success to some imaginary entity or the "chosen one" narrative.

My point is that someone's success belongs to them—it's their own doing, not the result of some higher power picking them out of a crowd. On the flip side, a lot of people in this thread try to diminish what people have actually achieved by chalking it up to fate, destiny, or whatever else they want to call it.

"He isn't special because of his hard work; he was just chosen. If he had picked me, I'd be special too." Give me a break. 👏

It’s pretty clear that this observation comes from an internal drive to be heard.

redbear2 said:Not quite. I’m just making an observation.

I don't see any other reason why people would credit success to some imaginary entity or the "chosen one" narrative.

My point is that someone's success belongs to them—it's their own doing, not the result of some higher power picking them out of a crowd. On the flip side, a lot of people in this thread try to diminish what people have actually achieved by chalking it up to fate, destiny, or whatever else they want to call it.

"He isn't special because of his hard work; he was just chosen. If he had picked me, I'd be special too." Give me a break. 👏

I honestly don't know what you consider "success" or what criteria you're using, so I can't really wrap my head around why you're treating other people's comments as evidence to prove they're wrong. It seems like we're talking about two completely different things here.

From what I've gathered by reading this thread and the various replies, nobody is actually trying to dismiss personal effort. In fact, quite the opposite.

When it comes specifically to Nikola Tesla, he explained his own experience quite extensively.

My argument is that a genuine contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the onostran (which isn't some distant "somewhere else," but is inherently immanent—something Nikola Tesla himself confirmed regarding his own experience).

Ideas aren't just figments of our imagination or inventions of the human mind. They are fundamental principles that exist and are simply discovered. This discovery doesn't happen through the mental process of conceptualizing reality through thought; rather, these truths are perceived through a process of clearing the mind—because those ideas aren't even accessible through standard thought processes.

This isn't about crediting "effort" to anyone or anything. It's about describing a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).
Keith Miller30 Keith Miller30 Regular
328 messages
joined Aug 2014
#24 ·
To prevent this discussion from spinning its wheels unnecessarily, my answer to the question in the title is quite simply—no.
Matthew Anderson4 Matthew Anderson4 Regular
598 messages
joined Jun 2013
#25 ·
I'm with Keith Miller30 on this one.
Michael Gonzalez77 Michael Gonzalez77 Active Member
234 messages
joined Feb 2015
#26 ·
When someone possesses the ability to heal others, it isn't because they simply cruised through high school or pulled a medical degree from an Ivy League university. It’s actually rooted in their energetic potential—something they carry forward and refine over many lifetimes.

Genius works exactly the same way.

🙂
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#27 ·
Michael Gonzalez77 said:When someone possesses the ability to heal others, it isn't because they simply cruised through high school or pulled a medical degree from an Ivy League university. It’s actually rooted in their energetic potential—something they carry forward and refine over many lifetimes.

Genius works exactly the same way.

🙂

Exactly! 👍
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#28 ·
Keith Miller30 said:To prevent this discussion from spinning its wheels unnecessarily, my answer to the question in the title is quite simply—no.

Actually, the answer is YES!

If that were true, everyone would be famous, legendary, and a total genius—it's that simple.

Life shows us pretty clearly that’s just not how it works. Quite the opposite, actually! 🍿
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#29 ·
redbear2 said:Not quite. I’m just making an observation.

I don't see any other reason why people would credit success to some imaginary entity or the "chosen one" narrative.

My point is that someone's success belongs to them—it's their own doing, not the result of some higher power picking them out of a crowd. On the flip side, a lot of people in this thread try to diminish what people have actually achieved by chalking it up to fate, destiny, or whatever else they want to call it.

"He isn't special because of his hard work; he was just chosen. If he had picked me, I'd be special too." Give me a break. 👏

Look, you can influence certain things, but you have zero control over the MAJORITY of them.

If you take two people with the exact same talent, obviously the one who puts in the work—practicing, studying, grinding—is going to blow the lazy one out of the water.

But raw talent itself? That doesn't come from hard work—you're born with it, period. No amount of effort can change that.

For example, you can't just decide to become Nikola Tesla, the genius inventor, simply by working harder or studying more. To be a Nikola Tesla, you basically just have to be BORN that way. And whether someone is born with that spark is something neither the person nor their parents decide—it's up to a higher power.

Even Nikola Tesla himself admitted that none of his inventions were truly "his"—he claimed they all came to him as "visions" and "sketches" that just sort of "appeared." So, WHO sent those sketches to Nikola Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, right? Just something to think about. Cheers!
Kate King4 Kate King4 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2015
#30 ·
I am a firm believer that every single individual is hand-picked by the creator. We all enter this world carrying our own specific, one-of-a-kind energetic potential, yet it is a profound tragedy that so few people actually encounter that power or manage to cultivate it throughout their lives. Most people fail to recognize it entirely, choosing instead to spend their existence chasing someone else's dreams. The vast majority simply go through the motions of what they must do or what they think they ought to do, whereas a rare few are brave enough to let go of cold reason, rigid logic, and pure intellect to finally surrender themselves to the guidance of the soul and the heart. I am certainly not suggesting that everyone is destined to be famous or possess the sheer genius of Tesla—that is simply impossible, given that every soul is unique and irreplaceable in its own distinct way... I can only begin to imagine the kind of world we would inhabit if every person truly left their own meaningful mark on history...
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#31 ·
Kate King4 said:I am a firm believer that every single individual is hand-picked by the creator. We all enter this world carrying our own specific, one-of-a-kind energetic potential, yet it is a profound tragedy that so few people actually encounter that power or manage to cultivate it throughout their lives. Most people fail to recognize it entirely, choosing instead to spend their existence chasing someone else's dreams. The vast majority simply go through the motions of what they must do or what they think they ought to do, whereas a rare few are brave enough to let go of cold reason, rigid logic, and pure intellect to finally surrender themselves to the guidance of the soul and the heart. I am certainly not suggesting that everyone is destined to be famous or possess the sheer genius of Tesla—that is simply impossible, given that every soul is unique and irreplaceable in its own distinct way... I can only begin to imagine the kind of world we would inhabit if every person truly left their own meaningful mark on history...

Everyone has a role to play—some bigger, some smaller.

That's really the whole point!

We didn't choose this ourselves, obviously. Someone older and much wiser assigned the roles—so I'm assuming they knew exactly what they were doing. Cheers, ☕
redbear2 redbear2 Active Member
84 messages
joined Oct 2014
#32 ·
Michael Gonzalez77 said:It’s pretty clear that this observation comes from an internal drive to be heard.

I honestly don't know what you consider "success" or what criteria you're using, so I can't really wrap my head around why you're treating other people's comments as evidence to prove they're wrong. It seems like we're talking about two completely different things here.

From what I've gathered by reading this thread and the various replies, nobody is actually trying to dismiss personal effort. In fact, quite the opposite.

When it comes specifically to Nikola Tesla, he explained his own experience quite extensively.

My argument is that a genuine contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the onostran (which isn't some distant "somewhere else," but is inherently immanent—something Nikola Tesla himself confirmed regarding his own experience).

Ideas aren't just figments of our imagination or inventions of the human mind. They are fundamental principles that exist and are simply discovered. This discovery doesn't happen through the mental process of conceptualizing reality through thought; rather, these truths are perceived through a process of clearing the mind—because those ideas aren't even accessible through standard thought processes.

This isn't about crediting "effort" to anyone or anything. It's about describing a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

steelmarlin19 said:Look, you can influence certain things, but you have zero control over the MAJORITY of them.

If you take two people with the exact same talent, obviously the one who puts in the work—practicing, studying, grinding—is going to blow the lazy one out of the water.

But raw talent itself? That doesn't come from hard work—you're born with it, period. No amount of effort can change that.

For example, you can't just decide to become Nikola Tesla, the genius inventor, simply by working harder or studying more. To be a Nikola Tesla, you basically just have to be BORN that way. And whether someone is born with that spark is something neither the person nor their parents decide—it's up to a higher power.

Even Nikola Tesla himself admitted that none of his inventions were truly "his"—he claimed they all came to him as "visions" and "sketches" that just sort of "appeared." So, WHO sent those sketches to Nikola Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, right? Just something to think about. Cheers!

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#33 ·
Quote:
But talent isn't something you earn through sheer grit—it’s something you're born with. No amount of hard work can change that fact.

Show me the proof.

Quote:
Look, it's simple: not everyone can be Nikola Tesla, that kind of genius inventor, just by putting in extra hours or hitting the books. To be a Tesla, you basically have to be born that way. And who decides what we're born as? Not us, and certainly not our parents—it's some higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power" now. Honestly, people just love to wrap things they don't understand in this mystical, spiritual nonsense.

The proof is Stephen Hawking. He's the walking embodiment of raw, innate talent in physics.
And yet, at the exact same time, life dealt him a brutal hand. It's like God rolled the dice ten times in a row.
When it came to his intellectual capacity, the dice kept landing on 5 or 6.
But when it came to his physical health? They landed on 1 or 2.😲
Michael Gonzalez77 Michael Gonzalez77 Active Member
234 messages
joined Feb 2015
#34 ·
redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

That’s clear enough, but it doesn't do a single thing to address anyone else's problems.

"Quote:"
redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

Success is usually just whatever happens to be trendy at the moment. It’s about what looks desirable right now, which doesn't mean it's actually useful or even true. On a personal level, it really just comes down to your own psychological foundation—whether the work you're doing actually matters to the world, or if it's just an illusion, which, let's face it, is how most people play it.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

From where I'm sitting, this just looks like your specific perspective—driven by those particular motives you mentioned earlier—that led you to jump into this thread.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

It sounds like you either knew him personally, which would explain why you're so certain, or you’re an expert in his field calling him out for being unstable—if we're being polite about it—or just plain eccentric.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

The "otherworldly" side of things is just a fundamental part of human consciousness—it’s what happens when we hit the ceiling of our own intellect and realize how limited our reasoning actually is. And let's be clear: Tesla didn't just dream this up out of thin air.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

It’s not just about spinning your wheels in place—that’s exactly why we’re even having this conversation. You can't get there through sheer willpower alone. Real breakthroughs happen when consciousness transcends that mental "cage." Think about all those massive scientific leaps made before we even had the tools to measure them. Those weren't products of trial and error or brute-force logic; they were moments of pure, intuitive insight. It’s like a meditative state where the brain finally stops grinding away at the noise, allowing information to flow directly into your awareness. It’s an internal vision, almost spatial, triggered by whatever you're deeply focused on.

Here’s the thing: we don't actually "invent" the principles of nature inside our heads. Those laws aren't just figments of our imagination; they are the active forces driving everything we see in reality. Our brains aren't capable of pure fantasy. Think of the brain not as a creative engine, but as an operational hub for thought within consciousness. It acts as a central station for processing conclusions and storing memory, but the brain itself isn't doing the thinking. Instead, it's consciousness that does the heavy lifting, taking in inputs not just through our five senses, but through deeper layers of the nervous system that operate far beneath our conscious awareness.

Because of how my nervous system is wired, I’ve been having precognitive dreams for years. My intuition isn't some mystical superpower; it’s actually just a byproduct of how I live. For the last 20 years, I’ve made it my life's work to stay balanced. I’m living proof that if you actually put in the effort, you can achieve incredible mental and physical health, total stability, and a perfectly tuned nervous system. Because I’ve cultivated that harmony, my brain is sensitive enough to pick up on subtle impulses that most people completely miss. I become aware of things happening around me that aren't tied to my five senses or whatever task is currently occupying my conscious mind.

Most people miss out on their full potential, even though they have everything it takes to reach it. It’s a shame, really. The reason is simple: they're too distracted by the noise of life. They scatter their mental and physical energy trying to chase every passing whim and unfulfilled desire. But the biggest drain is how people handle psychological hurdles—what most call "problems." Instead of facing them, people try to run away from these emotional states. This avoidance just fuels more negative thoughts and toxic mental loops, which only deepens the struggle. It becomes a vicious cycle where avoiding the issue actually creates more real-world consequences, eventually leading to chronic health issues down the road. It’s like trying to fix a leak by covering the floor with towels instead of just tightening the valve.

For enlightened people, this carries a lot more weight. But when you deal with those rare, brilliant minds who have reached that level? You start seeing actual "miracles"—not in some mystical sense, but in the way they simply perceive and process reality itself.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

Exactly. We don't actually interact with nature itself; we just deal with our own mental constructs of it. It’s the same issue when we fall into the trap of thinking our personal experience is the only ultimate truth. That whole cycle of a deterministic mind—believing something is impossible simply because we can't conceive of it—is a fiction. And honestly, that kind of mental rigidity is exactly what trips people up and keeps them from functioning properly.

If I claim to have certain abilities that almost nobody in my immediate circle possesses, people usually jump to one of four conclusions: I’m crazy, I’m abnormal, I’m making it up, or I’m delusional. But honestly? That kind of logic is just a mental trap—a fiction built on over-relying on theoretical determinism. At the end of the day, it isn't really about whether you believe me or not; there's no real point in arguing over belief. It all comes down to a simple assumption: deciding whether something is actually possible or if it's fundamentally impossible.

Look, I know this works because I’ve lived it. Meanwhile, someone else isn't just guessing—they're flat-out claiming it's impossible based on a total misconception. I'm not sure if you follow my logic here, but it's essentially a mental loop in that direction.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

Insights regarding the fundamental principles of existence are much more likely to be found in spiritual literature than in science. In the classic sense of the conventional materialist paradigm, science doesn't just fail to provide answers—it often offers incredibly narrow insights limited strictly by its own methodology and subject matter (matter itself). When science does offer hypotheses, they are merely tailored to that restricted scope, which practically leads people straight into error. If you're actually interested in this, I can point you toward some resources.
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#35 ·
redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

But ideas like the ones from Tesla definitely don't just pop out of thin air.

Sorry.

You're totally wrong on this one—not even close!
hollowpuma762 hollowpuma762 Active Member
190 messages
joined Feb 2015
#36 ·
redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

If they’re a byproduct of thinking, then they aren't just "happening" on their own.

They don't just pop out of thin air. What's actually happening is that consciousness acts as a sort of passive receiver, tuned up to gather them, allowing the shape of the idea to reflect itself within the mind of the thinker.

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.


The brain is just a tool.

For the "thinker" (the one actually wielding the tool), you need:

- A foundation (raw talent, innate stuff)
- The grind of optimizing that talent and sharpening mental tools
- Mastery over mental processes
- A specific state of consciousness that allows an idea to reflect onto the rational level

redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

This can happen under any circumstances—whether you're actively working at it or just drifting through some mindless, repetitive task. The triggers are all over the place.
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#37 ·
Benjamin Taylor6 said:
Quote:
But talent isn't something you earn through sheer grit—it’s something you're born with. No amount of hard work can change that fact.

Show me the proof.

Quote:
Look, it's simple: not everyone can be Nikola Tesla, that kind of genius inventor, just by putting in extra hours or hitting the books. To be a Tesla, you basically have to be born that way. And who decides what we're born as? Not us, and certainly not our parents—it's some higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power" now. Honestly, people just love to wrap things they don't understand in this mystical, spiritual nonsense.

The proof is Stephen Hawking. He's the walking embodiment of raw, innate talent in physics.
And yet, at the exact same time, life dealt him a brutal hand. It's like God rolled the dice ten times in a row.
When it came to his intellectual capacity, the dice kept landing on 5 or 6.
But when it came to his physical health? They landed on 1 or 2.😲

And hey, maybe God rolled those dice on purpose!

Who knows—maybe he'll even "heal" him just to prove there really is a higher power out there.

I mean, you know what they say: "The Lord works in mysterious ways."👍
steelmarlin19 steelmarlin19 Member
40 messages
joined Jan 2015
#38 ·
redbear2 said:Exactly. If it didn't, they would have just kept it to themselves.

I don't really know what constitutes success in your eyes—what the criteria even are—so I can't quite grasp why you're using other people's comments as a benchmark, trying to turn them into proof that they're wrong by reflecting their own logic back at them. It seems like we're talking about two different things here.

I don't see how that matters. Whatever someone manages to achieve, it's their achievement. Period.
From what I can gather from this thread and the other comments, nobody is actually suggesting that personal effort is being undervalued. Quite the opposite.

You don't need to say it outright. We're talking about rationalizing one's own failures.
On the other hand, when looking specifically at Tesla, he explained his experience quite broadly himself.

Tesla wasn't exactly a saint, especially during the later stages of his life.
My argument is that a true contribution to the advancement of the human race is directly linked to the otherworldly (which isn't some distant realm, but an immanent entity, something Tesla himself confirmed).

Why bother with that side of things if it doesn't impact the human race?
Ideas aren't mere inventions or products of human imagination. They are principles that exist and are simply rediscovered. They aren't uncovered through the mental process of conceptualizing reality with thought, but rather through the process of clearing the mind—because thoughts alone wouldn't grant access to them.

I don't follow. Even if the mind is cleared, if something isn't accessible to it, it can't be known.
This isn't about attributing "effort" to someone or something; it's a natural phenomenon. Anything else is just the classic human fiction regarding what reality actually is (an illusion).

A natural phenomenon?

So the stuff you're claiming is reality isn't a fiction? How does that work? Are you the chosen one sent to tell everyone else the truth about the state of things?

Fair enough.
If you take two people with identical talent, the one who puts in the work—the one who grinds, studies, and actually tries to improve—is obviously going to outpace the lazy one who refuses to grow.

Okay.
But raw talent itself isn't something you earn through effort. You're born with it. No amount of hard work changes that fact.

Show me the proof.
Look at it this way: you can't just work your way into being Nikola Tesla. You can't become a genius inventor just by studying harder. You either have it or you don't. And nobody decides that—not the individual, not the parents. It’s decided by a higher power.

I didn't realize biology was considered a "higher power." People tend to wrap mysteries in mysticism whenever they don't understand how something works.
Even Tesla admitted his inventions weren't really "his." He claimed he received them as visions and sketches that just appeared to him. Who sent those sketches to Tesla? They didn't exactly mail themselves, did they? Just a thought. Cheers.

I've read theories suggesting that brilliant, innovative ideas often seem to arrive "out of nowhere." But really, it's just the byproduct of deep, conscious thought. What the brain needs is time and the right environment to let the subconscious bridge gaps between seemingly unrelated concepts. That's when the most creative solutions surface. Usually, it happens during mindless tasks like showering or taking a walk. When you focus too intensely on a single point, you actually block those connections. That's why the "lightbulb moment" usually hits you while you're sitting in a bathroom stall.

The thing is, you can overthink something forever and still come up totally empty-handed.

Tesla actually believed that all ideas already exist out there—that we aren't inventing them, we're just uncovering things that were discovered long ago.

If that’s true, then there has to be a reason WHY certain people just "get" these ideas (the ones we call geniuses) while everyone else is left in the dark. It makes perfect sense! ☕
Keith Miller30 Keith Miller30 Regular
328 messages
joined Aug 2014
#39 ·
steelmarlin19 said:Actually, the answer is YES!

If that were true, everyone would be famous, legendary, and a total genius—it's that simple.

Life shows us pretty clearly that’s just not how it works. Quite the opposite, actually! 🍿

True, but I think you might be looking at this a bit too superficially. You argue that life proves this point, but is that entirely accurate when we consider someone like Perelman versus a child in a developing nation who doesn't even have a loaf of bread? You see, Perelman had the luxury of dedicating his entire existence to refining his innate talents, whereas a child in a remote part of Africa doesn't have that privilege; their priority is simple survival rather than solving Poincaré's conjectures. Because people aren't starting from the exact same circumstances, can we really say certain individuals are simply "chosen"? It’s more that some, like Perelman, possessed both high intelligence and an intense, almost antisocial focus on their work from a very young age. If I may ask, were you truly able to maintain that level of singular focus, or were you constantly being pulled away by external distractions that drained your energy, your time, and your concentration? Who is to say you wouldn't have achieved greatness yourself if you had been able to commit one hundred percent?

So, we have to account for personality traits, life circumstances, and environmental influences... and that is only a small fraction of the whole story. My view is that a vast number of people possess that initial spark within them that could allow them to rise above the surface, but the tragedy is that they are often held back by the various struggles life throws their way.
Michael Gonzalez77 Michael Gonzalez77 Active Member
234 messages
joined Feb 2015
#40 ·
Keith Miller30 said:True, but I think you might be looking at this a bit too superficially. You argue that life proves this point, but is that entirely accurate when we consider someone like Perelman versus a child in a developing nation who doesn't even have a loaf of bread? You see, Perelman had the luxury of dedicating his entire existence to refining his innate talents, whereas a child in a remote part of Africa doesn't have that privilege; their priority is simple survival rather than solving Poincaré's conjectures. Because people aren't starting from the exact same circumstances, can we really say certain individuals are simply "chosen"? It’s more that some, like Perelman, possessed both high intelligence and an intense, almost antisocial focus on their work from a very young age. If I may ask, were you truly able to maintain that level of singular focus, or were you constantly being pulled away by external distractions that drained your energy, your time, and your concentration? Who is to say you wouldn't have achieved greatness yourself if you had been able to commit one hundred percent?

So, we have to account for personality traits, life circumstances, and environmental influences... and that is only a small fraction of the whole story. My view is that a vast number of people possess that initial spark within them that could allow them to rise above the surface, but the tragedy is that they are often held back by the various struggles life throws their way.

When we talk about significant spiritual figures—those individuals destined to make a massive contribution to collective growth and push human consciousness forward—they tend to operate under a sense of inner guidance. They usually "wake up" when necessity calls, often triggered by a profound mystical experience that sets them in motion. It isn't just about the external circumstances surrounding them; rather, they seem to manifest in environments that naturally align with their internal trajectory. These aren't just "geniuses" in the conventional, worldly sense. Instead, they carry a latent, spiritual perfection that eventually surfaces, much like budo.

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