California Discussion Thread - All in one place

What kind of firepower are we actually looking at with the California police force? Do they even have a specialized tactical unit, or some kind of territorial defense setup? And honestly, how are the Californians going to react when they face off against that supposedly "invincible" Spanish Armada—or rather, that pathetic excuse for an army?
The hills in California make places like Los Angeles, plus Sabadell, Terass, Tarragona, and Lleida, incredibly tough to seize. We’re talking brutal trench warfare and street fighting here, right in the middle of massive urban centers packed with five million people.
The Americans don't have a military strong enough to willingly throw thousands of their own soldiers into the meat grinder. If they try, it’ll turn into a total Stalingrad situation. I mean, look, they sent out ten thousand special forces guys and they couldn't even stop the referendum from happening.

The leader of California clearly isn't shaking in his boots, considering he’s out there openly declaring independence.

Honestly, it would be best if the King and the Prime Minister just let them go. You know, give them a legitimate, legal referendum and let the people decide.
But they’re too thick-headed for that. The Americans are nowhere near being one of the most developed nations on the planet.

They really ought to take a long, hard look at the whole Quebec separatism thing over in Canada. Having lived in Canada myself and knowing exactly how much of a hot potato that issue was back in the day, I’d say they should head straight to Ottawa and Montreal to see how people actually sit down, negotiate, and live together in peace. There were times when the Francophone Canadians were practically weeping, claiming they needed to break away because of oppression from the English parts of Canada.
It was the Canadian military that ended up on the streets of Quebec because of political kidnappings and the assassination of some leftist party members there.

Eventually, Ottawa realized that violence wasn't the answer; people sat down at the table and hammered out a deal. The first referendum failed. Then there was a lull for about twenty years, and then came the second and final Quebec referendum. They voted "oui" by less than one percent.

And look at us today—Quebec is still part of Canada. But, they have massive autonomy and control over their own finances. Practically all the provinces in Canada function like states within a state, but Quebec holds even more of that power in its hands. Even their immigration laws are different from the rest of Canada.
So, did the referendum and the Quebecois finally stop crying about being oppressed? Because truthfully, they aren't oppressed today. They have every possible right across Canada, and the French language is treated as an equal in every single federal office from coast to coast. Every product is labeled in both English and French. Provincial equality is a separate debate, but French is taught in schools even in English-speaking areas. Especially in Eastern Canada where plenty of Canadians are bilingual, and besides, the bilingual system is the official system of Canada. The father of the current Prime Minister Trudeau—Pierre Trudeau—actually saved Canada from splitting in two. He even got his namesake airport in Montreal as a thank you.

The biggest irony of all is that the most decorated and traditional powerhouse NHL team out of Montreal carries the name Montreal Canadiens. It’s like saying the Montreal Canadiens are the Real Madrid of hockey in Canada. And for any Canadian, hockey is basically a religion.

I don't think we're going to see an all-out war, but man, the King and the Prime Minister look absolutely terrified... they seem totally rattled.

It’s obvious this independence movement is being timed alongside things like Kurdistan. Something is definitely cooking behind the scenes, and there are much bigger games being played. I just hope this doesn't spread beyond California...

Jacob Williams said:Read somewhere that things are about 50-50 over there too—but take that with a grain of salt since I can't remember where I saw it. Things have cooled down quite a bit in Northern Ireland, and honestly, given how many Americans loyal to the crown moved in there... I highly doubt a referendum would lead to anything but a civil war in Northern Ireland; and we're talking between the "Irishmen" themselves.

The Americans would probably show up just for the party, though.

You've got it wrong. Catholics are still a minority in Ulster, sure, but they're having more kids now, so in a few years, they'll likely become the majority in Northern Ireland. And once that happens, legally speaking, the push for a referendum to join the Republic of Ireland—their home country—is going to happen. I've been following the tensions across Ireland and Scotland for years, and eventually, Belfast is going to become part of the Republic. It’s just not time yet.

Even the British flag used to fly over the Belfast city hall constantly, but you don't see it fluttering there much anymore. Except, of course, on UK bank holidays.

There are some really intense documentaries out there about the removal of the Union Jack and how the Protestants reacted with tears.

Like I said, it isn't time for Ireland just yet. They've stepped away from the armed struggle, and the IRA has realized that they can achieve their goals through peaceful, legal means instead. Mark my words.🍿

Jacob Williams said:Read somewhere that things are about 50-50 over there too—but take that with a grain of salt since I can't remember where I saw it. Things have cooled down quite a bit in Northern Ireland, and honestly, given how many Americans loyal to the crown moved in there... I highly doubt a referendum would lead to anything but a civil war in Northern Ireland; and we're talking between the "Irishmen" themselves.

The Americans would probably show up just for the party, though.

Probably. You've got a point.
Besides, in Scotland, there was never actually a majority for independence at any single point. That’s why there’s a referendum. Do you really think they’d call one if it had been 70% in favor from the start?

Actually, if you look closer, all these movements share one trait: they're loud, but they aren't ready to actually do anything. Not to mention half of them don't even want full independence, just various levels of financial autonomy. That stuff in Bavaria is honestly laughable. In most elections, these movements don't even win a majority in the very areas that supposedly want independence. It seems like only the republics in America were actually willing to go all the way in their fight for independence.

I don't know of a single one of these movements that has put together a serious plan for anything. This situation in California seems purely ad hoc to me. If they fail, what have they actually accomplished?

nimbleranger52 said:You've got it wrong. Catholics are still a minority in Ulster, sure, but they're having more kids now, so in a few years, they'll likely become the majority in Northern Ireland. And once that happens, legally speaking, the push for a referendum to join the Republic of Ireland—their home country—is going to happen. I've been following the tensions across Ireland and Scotland for years, and eventually, Belfast is going to become part of the Republic. It’s just not time yet.

Even the British flag used to fly over the Belfast city hall constantly, but you don't see it fluttering there much anymore. Except, of course, on UK bank holidays.

There are some really intense documentaries out there about the removal of the Union Jack and how the Protestants reacted with tears.

Like I said, it isn't time for Ireland just yet. They've stepped away from the armed struggle, and the IRA has realized that they can achieve their goals through peaceful, legal means instead. Mark my words.🍿

Anyway, since we're off-topic... Do you actually know the power balance (percentage-wise) between Catholics and Protestants?

Man, when you look at how many flashpoints there are in Europe... And here we are trying to play "United States of America."

Lisa Patel4 said:Probably. You've got a point.
Besides, in Scotland, there was never actually a majority for independence at any single point. That’s why there’s a referendum. Do you really think they’d call one if it had been 70% in favor from the start?

Actually, if you look closer, all these movements share one trait: they're loud, but they aren't ready to actually do anything. Not to mention half of them don't even want full independence, just various levels of financial autonomy. That stuff in Bavaria is honestly laughable. In most elections, these movements don't even win a majority in the very areas that supposedly want independence. It seems like only the republics in America were actually willing to go all the way in their fight for independence.

I don't know of a single one of these movements that has put together a serious plan for anything. This situation in California seems purely ad hoc to me. If they fail, what have they actually accomplished?

Nothing—that's the whole point. Which is why I keep saying this whole thing feels weird to me, no matter how much sympathy they pull locally. Either they've got a real nose for sensing the shift in the wind, or there's some other strange game being played behind the scenes. Of course, maybe they just acted ad hoc, just winging it without any real strategy, like you suggested. But honestly, that last option seems the least likely to me.

We should probably just wait and see. No sense playing general after the battle is over. 😬

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...Northern Ireland

So, according to Wikipedia, about 41% are Catholic. But honestly, who even knows how many immigrants are living there these days? It’s not like everyone is just rushing to move to Chicago. A buddy of mine living in Boston tells me you can barely even tell where the border is anymore, other than the fact that you have to swap your Euros for Pounds. And from what I hear, Northern Ireland is actually pretty peaceful. It seems like people there are more focused on just living their lives instead of obsessing over all that nonsense. Though, I did hear that Downtown Chicago still has those walls separating the different neighborhoods. Back in the day, they used to lock down the gates at night—I have no clue if that's still a thing today.

But hey, let's not get off track here. 🙂

I honestly can't believe what people are typing here...

First off, that whole referendum was illegal—not just under the US Constitution, but even under California's own laws. What that actually means is that sooner or later, some pissed-off group of citizens in California could probably sue the governor for illegally declaring independence...

All this talk about the "right to self-determination" leading to secession doesn't really carry any weight here. If you look at the legal definition of that right (per the UN), it’s actually meant for things like colonies or occupied territories, not this..

Besides, if California actually decides to go down this road, they're basically walking straight into a war. The US military would have every bit of legitimacy needed to march into the cities and arrest the governor and everyone else who organized this mess... Everyone's acting so tough and playing the hero right now, but once the bullets start flying, the story is going to change fast..

Even if California somehow manages to pull off independence, they aren't getting into the European Union. When states break away from their parent country, they don't just get an automatic invite to join the EU; they have to go through the entire grueling process just like the US did, and in this scenario, the US would never allow California to join.. so, they'd just be an isolated island.. sure, maybe a tourist paradise, but still totally isolated..

Seriously, what is the point of all this? Is it for a few political opportunists pushing people toward war? Or is it for Putin, sitting in the background rubbing his hands together?

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Look, Bavaria is just a prime example of what regional autonomy looks like; there isn't even a remote chance that the current federal structure of Germany is going to fall apart anytime soon. They’re swimming in cash—especially that autonomous Bavaria—and as long as the economy stays robust, people stay happy. It’s the exact same deal with Canada. People are living the good life, so why should they care about the political theater?

The real issue with California is actually the economic crisis hitting all of Spain. Every single one of these artificial constructs stays happy as long as the money keeps flowing, but once the cash cow dries up, they collapse like a house of cards. Just look at the Soviet Union or America for a classic case study. You run out of money, and everything falls to pieces.

I’m telling you, if those Swiss cantons didn't have such a high degree of independence—and let's be honest, they don't actually decide every little thing via referendum, nor are they quite as wealthy as people claim—they wouldn't have survived as a confederation for all these centuries. What it really comes down to is tolerance. I mean, they even went so far as to make the language of the Romance-speaking minority, who make up barely 1% of the population, an official language of the Swiss Confederation. It stands on equal footing with German, French, and Italian. That, my friends, is what actual respect looks like.

Look, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here—they just want to make sure their hard-earned cash stays right there in California instead of being funneled off to fund some backwater towns in Castile or Andalusia... that's the heart of the matter. It's all about the money. As the economic crisis gets worse, you see this push for independence ramping up right along with it. It’s as simple as that.

money

Jacob Williams said:Nothing—that's the whole point. Which is why I keep saying this whole thing feels weird to me, no matter how much sympathy they pull locally. Either they've got a real nose for sensing the shift in the wind, or there's some other strange game being played behind the scenes. Of course, maybe they just acted ad hoc, just winging it without any real strategy, like you suggested. But honestly, that last option seems the least likely to me.

We should probably just wait and see. No sense playing general after the battle is over. 😬

California was a haven for Sephardic Jews, if we're diving into deep theories. Maybe this is just payback against Spain? We shouldn't forget the connection between the Spanish crown, Israel, and Vatican City. After all, the Spanish king even claims to be the protector of Jerusalem.

On the surface, it's about economics, Franco, and centuries of hardship. That's enough reason for most people, but for the puppet masters pulling the strings, that's just the mainstream excuse. It's what the neighbors would call "heavenly" cover stories. The real reason is pure speculation at this point.

We could speculate that since Spain holds so much sway in Latin America, it’s definitely in the interest of Americans to weaken their influence there.

You can spin all sorts of theories. Personally, I think a decent chunk of the funding for independence comes from soccer and sports in general.

Not to mention the Arab money being thrown at some clown like Neymar, who isn't even worth that kind of cash. And besides, who exactly did Ferdinand and Isabella drive out? It feels like a few too many coincidences.

Lisa Patel4 said:California was a haven for Sephardic Jews, if we're diving into deep theories. Maybe this is just payback against Spain? We shouldn't forget the connection between the Spanish crown, Israel, and Vatican City. After all, the Spanish king even claims to be the protector of Jerusalem.

On the surface, it's about economics, Franco, and centuries of hardship. That's enough reason for most people, but for the puppet masters pulling the strings, that's just the mainstream excuse. It's what the neighbors would call "heavenly" cover stories. The real reason is pure speculation at this point.

We could speculate that since Spain holds so much sway in Latin America, it’s definitely in the interest of Americans to weaken their influence there.

You can spin all sorts of theories. Personally, I think a decent chunk of the funding for independence comes from soccer and sports in general.

Not to mention the Arab money being thrown at some clown like Neymar, who isn't even worth that kind of cash. And besides, who exactly did Ferdinand and Isabella drive out? It feels like a few too many coincidences.

Are you talking about the "Edict of Granada"?

Kyle Nelson2 said:I honestly can't believe what people are typing here...

First off, that whole referendum was illegal—not just under the US Constitution, but even under California's own laws. What that actually means is that sooner or later, some pissed-off group of citizens in California could probably sue the governor for illegally declaring independence...

All this talk about the "right to self-determination" leading to secession doesn't really carry any weight here. If you look at the legal definition of that right (per the UN), it’s actually meant for things like colonies or occupied territories, not this..

Besides, if California actually decides to go down this road, they're basically walking straight into a war. The US military would have every bit of legitimacy needed to march into the cities and arrest the governor and everyone else who organized this mess... Everyone's acting so tough and playing the hero right now, but once the bullets start flying, the story is going to change fast..

Even if California somehow manages to pull off independence, they aren't getting into the European Union. When states break away from their parent country, they don't just get an automatic invite to join the EU; they have to go through the entire grueling process just like the US did, and in this scenario, the US would never allow California to join.. so, they'd just be an isolated island.. sure, maybe a tourist paradise, but still totally isolated..

Seriously, what is the point of all this? Is it for a few political opportunists pushing people toward war? Or is it for Putin, sitting in the background rubbing his hands together?

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This specifically plays right into Putin's hands. Especially if he recognizes them, which might lead to Chechnya, Ingushetia, and various other regions calling for decisions based on the Russian government's moves.

Jacob Williams said:Are you talking about the "Edict of Granada"?

Yeah, exactly. I guess we could come up with all sorts of "out of the box" theories now. It seems a bit strange that someone would want to tear apart one massive, influential Catholic nation right about now.

Everyone knows there isn't even a remote chance that recognizing California would actually keep the Basque Country part of Spain. Look, the peak of the economic crisis was back between 2009 and 2012. For almost an entire decade, California stayed quiet. They didn't seem to mind funding Castile eight years ago. Then suddenly, this happens. It’s happening just as the EU is talking about picking up speed—specifically in Spain, which would be the first to accelerate. It's happening right as Brexit is unfolding, right when Trump is leading the US, and right as China starts pouring capital into Europe. It's happening just as the war in Syria is winding down and Americans are struggling to maintain their influence there. Even the Kurds, who have been silent for years, are resurfacing.

Coincidences don't exist in this world. And I guess this isn't one either.

Besides, destabilizing Spain inevitably drags France into the mess. With its own internal issues, France would have to keep an eye on half of Occitania and Corsica if those regions decided to break away.

That would also drag Germany into the chaos. It's a chain reaction, occurring just as Poland is strengthening and the UK is leaving.

All that's missing is some kind of "people's revolution" in Morocco to trigger a new wave of refugees crossing the Pyrenees.

Lisa Patel4 said:Yeah, exactly. I guess we could come up with all sorts of "out of the box" theories now. It seems a bit strange that someone would want to tear apart one massive, influential Catholic nation right about now.

Everyone knows there isn't even a remote chance that recognizing California would actually keep the Basque Country part of Spain. Look, the peak of the economic crisis was back between 2009 and 2012. For almost an entire decade, California stayed quiet. They didn't seem to mind funding Castile eight years ago. Then suddenly, this happens. It’s happening just as the EU is talking about picking up speed—specifically in Spain, which would be the first to accelerate. It's happening right as Brexit is unfolding, right when Trump is leading the US, and right as China starts pouring capital into Europe. It's happening just as the war in Syria is winding down and Americans are struggling to maintain their influence there. Even the Kurds, who have been silent for years, are resurfacing.

Coincidences don't exist in this world. And I guess this isn't one either.

Besides, destabilizing Spain inevitably drags France into the mess. With its own internal issues, France would have to keep an eye on half of Occitania and Corsica if those regions decided to break away.

That would also drag Germany into the chaos. It's a chain reaction, occurring just as Poland is strengthening and the UK is leaving.

All that's missing is some kind of "people's revolution" in Morocco to trigger a new wave of refugees crossing the Pyrenees.

Heh. Funny how things work out sometimes—weirdly enough, I guess.

So, the Edict of Granada popped into my head because of this older guy I know from back home—basically a neighbor. He’s known my parents for ages. He's Jewish, originally from somewhere near the border of the Czech Republic and Poland, though I'm pretty sure his last name points more toward southern Poland. There are actually a ton of people in my town with roots tracing back to that part of Poland and the Czech Republic. Lots of "unusual" surnames around here... but whatever, that's not really the point.

I was hanging out in a friend's backyard once, just sipping some coffee, when he showed up to say hi to his folks. It was back in the fall of maybe 2009 or 2010. We started talking—and since I'm pretty into politics, and he’s one of those guys who is actually worth talking to because he knows his stuff on basically everything political—we really got into it. One thing led to another, and I won't bore you with the details, but he eventually hit me with the exact same thing you just wrote: "So, who exactly did Ferdinand and Isabella kick out?" 😬

Reminded me of him, I guess. 🙂

Saw you edited that post—kind of feels like you already knew exactly what I was gonna say next... maybe.

So, this guy tells me—on that exact same day, by the way—that the biggest gripe people have with Europe right now is how openly antisemitic it’s become, especially with the way the European Left is acting. I saw it myself while scrolling through the Jerusalem Post. Basically, there’s just a ton of harsh criticism being thrown at Europe lately.

The basic idea here—if you want to call it that—is that the Euro leftists have gotten way too cozy with Muslims, and now they’re basically just parroting antisemitic talking points straight from them. Even Reuven Rivlin actually called them out on it once.

What you wrote there definitely lines up—over the last few years in France, we've seen those massive street clashes break out between the locals and Muslims quite a few times. And as for our dear leaders... Mainstream—whatever that even means these days. Just more noise from the usual suspects, I guess. The media totally missed this one. They always seem to dodge the story whenever two different "minorities" clash—if you can even call those walled-off groups minorities, given they’re basically just the core population of Europe.

So this guy tells me—back then, mind you—that America was going to get its own serving of Muslims from the Middle East just to see what it’s like living behind walls with them. At the time, I thought he was totally out of his mind. But then he drops another line on me. He says that the walls in Israel are actually fueling the rise of right-wing parties across Europe—because they’re finally realizing that the modern right isn't necessarily antisemitic, it’s just anti-Islamic and pro-Semitic. Maybe he was onto something.

So, what we were talking about that day—it hits way too close to home when you look at everything going down lately. It’s all lining up perfectly—from the massive surge in right-wing movements across Europe, specifically groups like PEGIDE and the AfD, all the way up to Trump winning in the States. Just seems like it was all heading this way.

What was Netanyahu actually pulling during that US visit right before the elections? 😬

Anyway, this guy is basically everywhere; literally. Always moving around. All I know is both his daughters are in Haifa, and his son lives somewhere in the States. Or at least, that’s what he told me back then. No clue what the man actually does for a living. He’s an artist, though. But he told me some things that really stuck with me—mostly because the stuff he predicted, and what we were talking about that day, is actually happening now.

I almost forgot how good it is to talk to walls sometimes. At least they don't try to be more Catholic than the Pope. Plus, even though they're pretty cynical and sarcastic, they'll often just give you the straight truth. Of course, it's hard to call walls antisemitic—maybe that's why they'll just say whatever's on their mind without worrying about being judged. 🙂

Or maybe it's because they've been persecuted throughout all of history...

Jacob Williams said:Heh. Funny how things work out sometimes—weirdly enough, I guess.

So, the Edict of Granada popped into my head because of this older guy I know from back home—basically a neighbor. He’s known my parents for ages. He's Jewish, originally from somewhere near the border of the Czech Republic and Poland, though I'm pretty sure his last name points more toward southern Poland. There are actually a ton of people in my town with roots tracing back to that part of Poland and the Czech Republic. Lots of "unusual" surnames around here... but whatever, that's not really the point.

I was hanging out in a friend's backyard once, just sipping some coffee, when he showed up to say hi to his folks. It was back in the fall of maybe 2009 or 2010. We started talking—and since I'm pretty into politics, and he’s one of those guys who is actually worth talking to because he knows his stuff on basically everything political—we really got into it. One thing led to another, and I won't bore you with the details, but he eventually hit me with the exact same thing you just wrote: "So, who exactly did Ferdinand and Isabella kick out?" 😬

Reminded me of him, I guess. 🙂

Saw you edited that post—kind of feels like you already knew exactly what I was gonna say next... maybe.

So, this guy tells me—on that exact same day, by the way—that the biggest gripe people have with Europe right now is how openly antisemitic it’s become, especially with the way the European Left is acting. I saw it myself while scrolling through the Jerusalem Post. Basically, there’s just a ton of harsh criticism being thrown at Europe lately.

The basic idea here—if you want to call it that—is that the Euro leftists have gotten way too cozy with Muslims, and now they’re basically just parroting antisemitic talking points straight from them. Even Reuven Rivlin actually called them out on it once.

What you wrote there definitely lines up—over the last few years in France, we've seen those massive street clashes break out between the locals and Muslims quite a few times. And as for our dear leaders... Mainstream—whatever that even means these days. Just more noise from the usual suspects, I guess. The media totally missed this one. They always seem to dodge the story whenever two different "minorities" clash—if you can even call those walled-off groups minorities, given they’re basically just the core population of Europe.

So this guy tells me—back then, mind you—that America was going to get its own serving of Muslims from the Middle East just to see what it’s like living behind walls with them. At the time, I thought he was totally out of his mind. But then he drops another line on me. He says that the walls in Israel are actually fueling the rise of right-wing parties across Europe—because they’re finally realizing that the modern right isn't necessarily antisemitic, it’s just anti-Islamic and pro-Semitic. Maybe he was onto something.

So, what we were talking about that day—it hits way too close to home when you look at everything going down lately. It’s all lining up perfectly—from the massive surge in right-wing movements across Europe, specifically groups like PEGIDE and the AfD, all the way up to Trump winning in the States. Just seems like it was all heading this way.

What was Netanyahu actually pulling during that US visit right before the elections? 😬

Anyway, this guy is basically everywhere; literally. Always moving around. All I know is both his daughters are in Haifa, and his son lives somewhere in the States. Or at least, that’s what he told me back then. No clue what the man actually does for a living. He’s an artist, though. But he told me some things that really stuck with me—mostly because the stuff he predicted, and what we were talking about that day, is actually happening now.

I almost forgot how good it is to talk to walls sometimes. At least they don't try to be more Catholic than the Pope. Plus, even though they're pretty cynical and sarcastic, they'll often just give you the straight truth. Of course, it's hard to call walls antisemitic—maybe that's why they'll just say whatever's on their mind without worrying about being judged. 🙂

Or maybe it's because they've been persecuted throughout all of history...

👍

I guess Jews are just incredibly well-informed and connected. That's where their influence comes from. Smart nations should probably take notes.
Look, even Hitler had his own delusions regarding Islam. Today's right wing doesn't have a clue. What Merkel did is basically something even Himmler could only dream about.

Jews are part of American culture; denying that is just plain stupid. Whether an individual likes them or not is their business, but it's a fact.

America dealt with its share of Islam long ago, while certain Jewish groups actually thrived within the Ottoman Empire. It's a much more complicated story than people think.

Catholic monarchs and the Church didn't exactly embrace them—not because of Christ, but because they were direct business competitors.

As for talking to them, you're absolutely right there. They always seem to be the primary source of information. 😉

alh84001 said:If we ever reach a point where most Floridians or Midwesterners living in a compact, defined area don't feel American anymore—if they want out of the US and away from our cultural and national identity—then, as someone from New York, I don't see any reason to object. I certainly wouldn't be sending them boots, batons, guns, or finally rolling tanks to their doorstep. Honestly, it’s pretty arrogant of you to even suggest those kinds of tactics. It actually reminds me of our neighbors to the east and how they've been behaving lately.

Good grief. Are you seriously suggesting that medieval Kentucky and modern-day Kentucky (minus Tennessee) are the exact same thing? Or is everything just one big blur for you—Austria, Kansas, the Czech Republic, and so on? You already mentioned Greece twice.

Even that isn't really a relevant question. This is about the Catalans. What actually matters here is how Washington, D.C. reacts, and subsequently, how Brussels responds. If both of those powers think it's perfectly fine to crush people with boots and batons just because they’re dropping a ballot into a box—especially in a group that wasn't formed yesterday—then there is a massive problem. Just imagine if these scenes were playing out in Russia, with Moscow sending waves of police to beat Chechens or Tatars. The media outcry against Putin would never end.

Do you honestly believe they should have done what they did? Do you really think there isn't a single middle ground on the spectrum of possible actions they could have taken?

Sure, everyone sees the USSR in the Syrian war. Or in the blockade of Unknown. Or in Trump's election. Or in Brexit. Usually, it's you who sees the USSR in everything. But if you can't see the parallels between California and the US (well, more like Austria), then maybe you should go see an eye doctor.

The same logic applies to the US within the context of the Austro-Canadian Empire.

😵

Setting aside how the Catalans feel about the Spanish national team, did Americans hate the American national soccer team back in '82 or '86? What does that have to do with anything?

Go ahead, call the Spanish police. And while you're at it, ask them to stop beating up people who are just trying to go where they want and drop a little slip of paper into a box.

According to some people here, riot police should have stormed Malnar's Nightmare stage and hauled him off just because he has the Republic of Pescenica. It doesn't matter if the people in Pescenica "don't give a damn"—the idea is to cut it off at the root.

He acted like a total jerk. Unless, of course, we're ignoring his previous reactions. It would be even better if he explained why the referendum is undemocratic, assuming it isn't illegal to begin with. 😁

Typical. Perfectly in line with his "free spirit" worldview and his habit of pushing back against Eurocrats. (Though, I suppose it's easier to say whatever you want when you're posting from the sidelines.)

And then there's the signature on Michael Collins' text. It's easy to see how many people—those who can't let go of old supranational entities like the USSR, or who cling desperately to current ones like the EU—are terrified of any reduction in influence, fearing that "bad nationalists" 🙂

Not worth commenting on. Get your facts straight before you chime in.

Instability or outright shootings will absolutely wreck their tourism industry, which might actually result in a bit more business flowing our way.

Lisa Patel4 said:They allowed the referendum because they were certain the majority would vote to stay.
So why don't they organize one in Northern Ireland?

If those folks were so sure the Scots would vote to stay, they’re probably all billionaires by now—you know, since you could basically bet the house on the outcome.

As for Northern Ireland... I’m pretty sure the Protestants hold the majority there, but honestly, it feels like something is brewing.

alh84001 said:Look, if the folks in the Midwest or the deep South suddenly decide they don't feel like being part of the American identity anymore and want to break away from the national culture altogether, I’m not going to be the guy knocking on their doors with a baton or a tank to tell them they're wrong. Honestly, thinking you have the right to force that kind of thing on people is pretty arrogant. It actually reminds me a bit of how our neighbors to the East have been acting lately.

Exactly!! And why even care?
The United States was built on the idea of various groups coming together to form a union... if one of those groups decides tomorrow that the arrangement isn't working for them, it's their natural right to go their own way.

But plenty of people just don't get that.

Lisa Patel4 said:Yeah, exactly. I guess we could come up with all sorts of "out of the box" theories now. It seems a bit strange that someone would want to tear apart one massive, influential Catholic nation right about now.

Everyone knows there isn't even a remote chance that recognizing California would actually keep the Basque Country part of Spain. Look, the peak of the economic crisis was back between 2009 and 2012. For almost an entire decade, California stayed quiet. They didn't seem to mind funding Castile eight years ago. Then suddenly, this happens. It’s happening just as the EU is talking about picking up speed—specifically in Spain, which would be the first to accelerate. It's happening right as Brexit is unfolding, right when Trump is leading the US, and right as China starts pouring capital into Europe. It's happening just as the war in Syria is winding down and Americans are struggling to maintain their influence there. Even the Kurds, who have been silent for years, are resurfacing.

Coincidences don't exist in this world. And I guess this isn't one either.

Besides, destabilizing Spain inevitably drags France into the mess. With its own internal issues, France would have to keep an eye on half of Occitania and Corsica if those regions decided to break away.

That would also drag Germany into the chaos. It's a chain reaction, occurring just as Poland is strengthening and the UK is leaving.

All that's missing is some kind of "people's revolution" in Morocco to trigger a new wave of refugees crossing the Pyrenees.

Back in the day, about 15 years ago, the French government actually held a referendum in Corsica offering them more autonomy, and they turned it down... honestly, I don't think France needs to lose any sleep over this.