School Reform: Thoughts?

I haven't actually managed to recruit anyone to join the protest because—honestly, whoever I call—they’re all already planning to be there. 😁

The kids and I will be there right on schedule, and my husband and the older guys will catch up with us a bit later.

If they end up doing exactly what they’re doing on Facebook... ☕

Honestly, this little protest making all that noise about teachers at sixteen years old? It won't even get off the ground. 🤣

You'll have fewer people showing up than at a BlackRock meeting. 🙂

Jason Ortiz5 said:Man, if my hometown were closer, I’d be all over it. I just don't feel right wandering around unfamiliar territory.

Have you ever actually lived in a tiny town? Around here, the biggest event we can pull off is a parade to show off new manicures and eyelash extensions, or maybe a little outdoor prayer circle to support Marquette and her crowd... :-(

Don't sweat it. Honestly, even people living five blocks away find it easier to protest via Facebook than actually showing up.

And these protests... if only I knew what they were actually protesting against! 🤣

Is this about Las Vegas? Seriously, folks, he already resigned. Don't you guys know that? Didn't he post a status update on Facebook? 🤷

He gave his (irrevocable!) resignation. So, who are you all even fighting for? It doesn't matter, I guess—as long as Facebook is blowing up, right? 😂

I might just walk across the street just to see the joke for myself. You'd fit right in at a circus like Coachella. 🙂

Do you have any constructive thoughts on the reform?
I’m trying to ask—in a polite way, of course—what actually drives people to support this whole process?
Why do they feel such a strong need to make their voices heard on this specific issue?

Sure, we aren't nearly as organized or well-funded as an outfit like the ACLU, but I still have this naive, almost childlike hope that people will actually show up in the streets.
Real life, not just Facebook. 🤷

Susan James said:Do you have any constructive thoughts on the reform?
I’m trying to ask—in a polite way, of course—what actually drives people to support this whole process?
Why do they feel such a strong need to make their voices heard on this specific issue?

Sure, we aren't nearly as organized or well-funded as an outfit like the ACLU, but I still have this naive, almost childlike hope that people will actually show up in the streets.
Real life, not just Facebook. 🤷

I already mentioned earlier that I didn't want to keep repeating myself,

But since nobody here has actually given me a solid argument in favor of the reform—it all seems to boil down to "we just need change, no matter what," or "he's an expert," and other vague excuses
And since people seem to be cheering for this "reform" almost reflexively because it sounds good for the kids, without really thinking it through, I'm honestly not expecting much of a high-level debate here. 🙂

So, I figure my contribution to this thread is pretty much right in line with the rest of the conversation. 😉

We're just starting to get together, slowly but surely.

Facebook says it's hitting 10,000. That means we might actually see 2 🙂

Oh boy, this guy shows up here too! 🤦

I actually tried to get into a deep dive about policy with him once, but I quickly realized he doesn't have the slightest clue about how school reforms or the education system actually work.

we're all on our way 🙂
heads up, we're gonna be running about half an hour late because of these preschool plays—honestly, kids' stuff always trips up the schedule. hope you guys don't head out before we roll in

Lawrence Torres56 said:Well, it’s honestly no surprise when you look at the track record, isn't it? Like, about a decade ago, they went ahead and dropped anatomy as a prerequisite for medical school just to make it easier for high schoolers to get in. But in doing that, they basically screwed over the students already in specialized vocational programs who spend five years studying specific subjects—they made it impossible for them to bridge that gap! And we're talking about a country that's constantly whining about having zero budget for education, yet somehow finds plenty of money to throw away on "re-teaching the basics" instead of actually investing that cash into advanced training and upgrading what people already know... it's a total drain on the budget.
It’s the exact same story over at the tech colleges; for them, it seems more important that a kid knows American history or English than actually knowing the core subject matter.🤣
To me, it just feels like in this country, having the right piece of paper matters way more than actually knowing what you're doing.

I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading here. It's honestly incredible. This is just pure speculation without any basis in reality.

First off, saying English and American history aren't as important as English and American history makes zero sense. For admission to >, 320 points come directly from high school grades. Then, 80 points are based on the average grade of core subjects on the national exams, where the difficulty level of English or American history doesn't even change the point value. Those 80 points are the only place where language and history matter, and even then, math is factored in, so it's actually a very small portion. After that, you have 600 points left, with 360 coming from AP Calculus and 240 from Physics.

As for suggesting that what you learn in a vocational high school counts as "technical expertise" in the context of >, that’s just laughable. > is a university, plain and simple, and things are done at a university level. Technical subjects are covered much faster and in far greater detail than anything in high school. If you compared the two, the high school curriculum wouldn't even look like a basic outline compared to the college courses. Plus, the mathematical tools used in high school are extremely limited compared to university-level math, so it’s perfectly logical that high school subjects can't be compared to college work. A vocational high school is designed to train students to become skilled tradespeople, electricians, and so on, whereas a university is meant to educate engineers and scientists.

But what's even funnier to me is how you—who likely haven't even brushed against computer science or electrical engineering at a higher level in your life—think you know more about "the field" than people who hold professorships and have dedicated their entire lives to it.

And that whole bit about anatomy being a prerequisite also smells fishy to me. Based on that logic, it would imply that before ten years ago, you could only get into med school through health or medical vocational schools, which I am absolutely certain isn't true.

I won't even bother commenting on the part about wasting money on retraining people from scratch.

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Betty Wood54 said:I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading here. It's honestly incredible. This is just pure speculation without any basis in reality.

First off, saying English and American history aren't as important as English and American history makes zero sense. For admission to >, 320 points come directly from high school grades. Then, 80 points are based on the average grade of core subjects on the national exams, where the difficulty level of English or American history doesn't even change the point value. Those 80 points are the only place where language and history matter, and even then, math is factored in, so it's actually a very small portion. After that, you have 600 points left, with 360 coming from AP Calculus and 240 from Physics.

As for suggesting that what you learn in a vocational high school counts as "technical expertise" in the context of >, that’s just laughable. > is a university, plain and simple, and things are done at a university level. Technical subjects are covered much faster and in far greater detail than anything in high school. If you compared the two, the high school curriculum wouldn't even look like a basic outline compared to the college courses. Plus, the mathematical tools used in high school are extremely limited compared to university-level math, so it’s perfectly logical that high school subjects can't be compared to college work. A vocational high school is designed to train students to become skilled tradespeople, electricians, and so on, whereas a university is meant to educate engineers and scientists.

But what's even funnier to me is how you—who likely haven't even brushed against computer science or electrical engineering at a higher level in your life—think you know more about "the field" than people who hold professorships and have dedicated their entire lives to it.

And that whole bit about anatomy being a prerequisite also smells fishy to me. Based on that logic, it would imply that before ten years ago, you could only get into med school through health or medical vocational schools, which I am absolutely certain isn't true.

I won't even bother commenting on the part about wasting money on retraining people from scratch.

Of course it's not true—that's just straight-up nonsense. 🤣 🤣
Back in the day, getting into med school was all about your high school GPA and passing entrance exams in biology, physics, and chemistry.
The idea that you need anatomy just to *apply* to med school... 🤦

As for Ford, I actually have no clue what their current requirements are, but back when I was hitting the books, you'd get a max of 400 points from your grades, and then the entrance exams in math and physics accounted for up to 600.
Most students at Ford when I was studying were coming straight out of prep schools.
You had a few people from technical high schools, but most of them I remember dropping out (unless they were those hardcore workaholics)—I mean, jeez, we crushed calculus, while they couldn't even wrap their heads around basic math.

You know, looking back, I’m honestly not even certain if you could have even applied for med school straight out of a vocational nursing program. Certainly not with just any random certificate—especially if they were offering those shorter three-year tracks. You really had to nail those entrance exams, much like how intense the SATs feel today. Back then, those students hadn't spent four years grinding through those specific core subjects, so passing those tests was an uphill battle. It was a similar story with business degrees, too. Students coming from the four-year vocational business schools struggled to get into university programs because their math wasn't quite where it needed to be, and if you were coming from the three-year commercial track, getting into a university at all was basically out of the question. Generally speaking, kids from traditional high schools usually had the foundational knowledge to breeze through the entrance exams, just like how high school grads handle the SATs now. I think things are actually a bit better today, though; I believe you can pass the required exams even with a shorter vocational background now, which used to be a massive hurdle. I might be slightly off on the specifics there, but I think there was some talk about changes being made to that system.

I find myself in agreement regarding anatomy being a mandatory prerequisite for medical school enrollment.
From those acquaintances I know who were born in the early seventies, I can recall only one individual who transitioned from a vocational nursing program directly into a medical degree. He was an exceptionally gifted student, possessing both a broad general intelligence and a specialized depth of knowledge that simply cannot be acquired through standard schooling alone. He completed his studies on schedule and moved straight into his residency...
However, I am also aware of several valedictorians from technical high schools who successfully navigated their way into MIT. Of course, the vast majority of MIT students tend to hail from elite math-focused preparatory academies.

Furthermore, university admissions criteria should not be dictated by political maneuvering; rather, they ought to be established by the faculty members themselves, who possess the practical experience to understand which foundational skills actually facilitate a smoother and more profound mastery of the curriculum at such institutions.

Even now, if you only finished three years of high school, you can't sit for your exams or get into college. It’s just not an option—not unless you're willing to put in the work and go back for that extra fourth year, assuming you actually have those kinds of ambitions in the first place.

Look, I actually know a handful of people who went straight from nursing school into medical school and actually made it through
but let’s be real—we’re talking about people who had the grades and the bank account to get into pretty much any university they wanted 🙂

plus, those vocational medical programs were never just three-year stints anyway

I've been overthinking this all day, but I finally decided I'm hitting up Times Square tomorrow.

redridge13 said:Look, I actually know a handful of people who went straight from nursing school into medical school and actually made it through
but let’s be real—we’re talking about people who had the grades and the bank account to get into pretty much any university they wanted 🙂

plus, those vocational medical programs were never just three-year stints anyway

Okay, look—like I mentioned before, I'm not entirely sure how long the curriculum lasted, but you still had to take entrance exams just like students have to pass the SATs today. So, what's really the big difference? With the SATs, you can apply to four or five colleges at once, whereas we had to carefully coordinate our schedules so none of the exam dates overlapped, all while paying individual fees for every single entrance test.

I am 100% down with bringing back entrance exams

whether we’re talking about getting into college or even high school. ☕