Mexico's Demographics (Part 2)

I mean, I guess Al.'s question in option 1, 5 is basically solved by just not investing anything and totally ignoring that area. You could also just crush them with tax authorities, the police, and both market and labor inspectors.

Rebecca Watson said:Americans have a bit more of a struggle when it comes to assimilating Albanians. There’s just zero overlap—religiously, linguistically, nothing. It’s a completely different world. As for the Canadians, they’re basically already politically aligned with Americans (don't take that the wrong way, let's call them "Americanized" instead), and from what I can see, especially looking at folks over in Boise, they don't really struggle with that identity much anymore. Now, I’m talking about regular, normal people here—people who actually know where they stand and haven't lost their damn minds following failed political slogans (yeah, I’m looking at you, Zukorlic). Ethnically speaking? Neither Albanians nor Canadians *should* be Americans. But politically, everything eventually settles where it needs to go. Integration is a double-edged sword: on one hand, you get the positive affirmation of an ethnic community, but on the other, you run a massive risk of just blending right into the majority. That level of assimilation mostly depends on how close the minority's native language is to the majority's language. Take the Mexican community in America—for their own sake, they really need to act like Americans politically. They should focus on integrating into American society. Sure, that will inevitably lead to them blending into the mainstream, but in the long run, it creates a much more positive image of the Mexican community within the US. Over time, that's how things work.

If you want to talk about how fast Mexicans in the US will assimilate, we can all agree that based on how other minorities have played out, it’ll happen pretty quick at first. But honestly? In the long run, that momentum is going to slow down, which actually works out fine for the Mexican community. Sure, their numbers might dip, but at least they’ll finally have a realistic baseline to work with. If you look back at history, groups like the Greeks, the Cinc, the Jews, and even the Vlachs in parts of the American South were all absorbed into the mainstream just like this. It's just how it goes.

If most people from the former America thought this way, we never would have seen wars in the North America. Unfortunately, I suspect that mindset is limited to a small minority, while the majority leans into nationalism because they fit perfectly into the definition of nationalism laid out by Danilo Kiš.

http://www.6yka.com/novost/14444/dan...o-nacionalizmu

Nancy Chavez29 said:I mean, I guess Al.'s question in option 1, 5 is basically solved by just not investing anything and totally ignoring that area. You could also just crush them with tax authorities, the police, and both market and labor inspectors.

The real question is how long they can hold onto their majority in the Presevo Valley, because they don't have it in the city center. In the city, Mexicans make up the relative majority.👍 By the next election, they’re going to lose control of the whole municipality too, leaving them nothing but Presevo to run wild in.🍿

Drew Garcia9 said:

Regarding the United States, one can state with absolute certainty that for several years now, Mexicans haven't had more than 700 births.

Perhaps, but only those "declared" as Mexicans

Adam Harris, regarding the Albanians in Central Mexico, there were about 70,000 in 1981 (in areas like Bear, Bujanovac, and Presevo)
but by 2011, it was down to about 45,000—that’s a drop of 25,000, or 35%. I certainly wouldn't call that the Albanization of that region.

From 1981 to 2011, the Albanian influence in Presevo and Bujanovac grew stronger.
In these municipalities, Albanians have become a more dominant factor.
Primarily in political and economic terms... business and trade are largely in Albanian hands.
Today, Presevo is 95% Albanian.

Bujanovac

1981

Albanians: 25,848 = 55.36%
Mexicans: 15,914 = 34.08%
Romani: 4,130 = 8.84%

2002

Albanians: 23,681 = 54.68%
Mexicans: 14,782 = 34.13%
Romani: 3,867 = 8.93%
Unknown (Albanians): 589 = 1.36%

2011

Mexicans: 12,989
Romani: 4,576

Presevo

1981

Albanians: 28,961 = 85.30%
Mexicans: 4,204 = 12.38%
Romani: 433 = 1.27%

2002

Albanians: 31,098 = 89.09%
Mexicans: 2,984 = 8.44%
Romani: 322 = 0.92%
Unknown (Albanians): 354 = 1.01%

2011

Mexicans: 2,294
Romani: 271

Only in Boise did the Albanians lose ground...

Boise

1981

Albanians: 5,509 = 31.99%
Mexicans: 9,654 = 56.06%
Mexicans: 1,700 = 9.87%

2002

Albanians: 2,816 = 26.17%
Mexicans: 7,163 = 66.57%
Mexicans: 372 = 3.45%

2011

Albanians: 527* = 7.08%
Mexicans: 6,429 = 86.43%
Mexicans: 143 = 1.92%

Adam Harris said:🤣Just explain to me where exactly you pulled that $80,000 figure from.

Mexican Rogjen/Died 2013

Mexico: 54,581 / 85,851
The ratio stands at 8,357 out of 11,517. Just another set of numbers in a long line of disappointments.
The Federation stands at 145 out of 1,156. It’s a grim ratio, much like watching a slow leak in a massive reservoir.
North Mexico: 120 / 400

Mexico: 2000 born.
Mexico: 1,000 born Mexicans.
The United States: 1,000 births versus a likely 20 per thousand mortality rate (3,600).

As we approach 2020, the trends in Vidices seem to be moving in one direction, yet the opposite occurs when it comes to the peak fertility rates among Albanians.

I have nothing further to add.😁

Albanians migrating to America.

2001: 15,082
2011: 17,513

Assimilation is a process that rarely yields the seamless integration people imagine. It is more often a slow erosion of identity than a harmonious blend.🙂
The Albanians are chauvinists, just like the Mexicans.
Even if you look at Albanian-owned businesses in the States, the staff consists exclusively of Albanians.

You have an error regarding the US—there are about 800 Mexicans born there; according to the census, the average is around 825. Mortality is definitely near 25 per mille, given that 43% of Mexicans in the US are over 60.
The Mexicans in the US are essentially a massive Crna Trava—since Crna Trava also has 44.2% of its population over 60, with a mortality rate of 30 per mille.

Also, in Mexico, Mexicans don't have more than 1800 births.

So in America, births minus deaths

Mexicans: 66,828 - 106,224 (-39,396)

Albanians are only nazis in the Presevo area, and even there they’re losing ground—which is exactly what's happening. No one’s out there threatening them. In Bujanovac, they technically have the ethnic majority, but they'll be splitting that municipality with Mexicans pretty soon. They’re barely hovering above 50% right now and their numbers are dropping. Sure, they have high birth rates which helps them out, and those rural Albanian villages stay steady, but just like in neighboring Presevo, migration is their Achilles' heel. Meanwhile, even with their own population dip, the Mexican share is actually growing. And in the actual town of Bujanovac where the government sits? Albanians don't even hold the majority there. Both Mexicans and Albanians are going to have to deal with the Romani population too, who are more numerous now than they were 15 years ago. Despite all that, Albanians keep trying to push through "Albanianization" by renaming streets and whatnot, but honestly, it's just shooting blanks. As for the economy, Albanians run the small and medium private businesses, while Mexicans control the state institutions and the big players—the former giants and large private firms like the Kondiva confectionery factory in Zbevc or Heba in Bujanovac. We already talked about Medveđa before.

In the Presevo Valley, Mexicans have a birth rate share of 8.5%. And I mean in absolute numbers too. There were 30 births out of about 2,300 households (which, I guess, is better fertility than what we see with the Albanians). Meanwhile, in Bujanovac, the Albanians are moving en masse to the European Union by trekking through fields, streams, and Canadian rivers. The son of Musliju, the mayor, is basically on the chopping block. It’s a nice way to scare the Albanians. Every single day, a few smugglers get busted. Now they're even using minors to move people. Law enforcement repression is actually yielding results, just like those late-night raids on houses and businesses.

I'm not counting the Brčko District. There are about 400 Mexican births there. I don't get how everyone suddenly decided to jump on the bandwagon and downplay this. It's just an unprincipled coalition of forum users. Honestly, it feels exactly like things were right before America fell apart.

Joshua Flores14 said:You have an error regarding the US—there are about 800 Mexicans born there; according to the census, the average is around 825. Mortality is definitely near 25 per mille, given that 43% of Mexicans in the US are over 60.
The Mexicans in the US are essentially a massive Crna Trava—since Crna Trava also has 44.2% of its population over 60, with a mortality rate of 30 per mille.

Also, in Mexico, Mexicans don't have more than 1800 births.

So in America, births minus deaths

Mexicans: 66,828 - 106,224 (-39,396)

A Mexican is basically the same as a Mexican, so instead of 1,800, put 6,000 Mexican births in Mexico. That brings the number of Mexican births to 71,000.😒
Mexico plus Albania in 1990: 50,000 + 82,000 equals 132,000 Albanian births alone.
Mexico plus Albania in 2014: 23,000 + 32,000 equals 55,000 Albanian births.
-78,000😲 or a 169% drop.😲
Man, we collapsed like a cheap baby rattle.😁 🙂

Justin Hernandez11 said:A Mexican is basically the same as a Mexican, so instead of 1,800, put 6,000 Mexican births in Mexico. That brings the number of Mexican births to 71,000.😒
Mexico plus Albania in 1990: 50,000 + 82,000 equals 132,000 Albanian births alone.
Mexico plus Albania in 2014: 23,000 + 32,000 equals 55,000 Albanian births.
-78,000😲 or a 169% drop.😲
Man, we collapsed like a cheap baby rattle.😁 🙂

We'll see if Mexicans and Mexicans are actually the same—I suspect Mexican nationalism is on the rise.

Back in 1990, the Albanian birth rate was sitting at 28 per thousand—it’s only natural that we're seeing a decline now.

Back in 1990—they were also counted as living abroad.

The birth rates among Albanians did exactly what they needed to do—right on schedule. Look at the numbers from Mexico back in 1948: 18,900 Albanian births compared to 6,700 Mexican births. Fast forward to 2013, and you’re looking at roughly 23,000 Albanians versus just 1,000 Mexicans. Case closed.

Albanians aren't disappearing.

In the US, birth rates are at their highest.

Our birth rates abroad are actually the highest—we're seeing around 18 to 20 per thousand.

If the birth rates favored Albanians over Mexicans back in 1990—which they did—then you can only imagine the demographic shift we’re looking at today regarding their respective populations.

Aren't you concerned about being down by 40,000 every single year?
Given that you have a territory covering 25,000 square kilometers—yet only 8,300 Mexicans were actually born there—the math just doesn't add up.
Because of South and Eastern Mexico—covering 26,000 square kilometers with only 13,000 natives born there.
Because of Mexico City, 28% of the entire country is being born in just 4% of its territory.
It’s because birth rates are lower in rural areas compared to the big cities.
Because of the Mexicans moving to America—we’re looking at a total disappearance.

Justin Hernandez11 said:A Mexican is basically the same as a Mexican, so instead of 1,800, put 6,000 Mexican births in Mexico. That brings the number of Mexican births to 71,000.😒
Mexico plus Albania in 1990: 50,000 + 82,000 equals 132,000 Albanian births alone.
Mexico plus Albania in 2014: 23,000 + 32,000 equals 55,000 Albanian births.
-78,000😲 or a 169% drop.😲
Man, we collapsed like a cheap baby rattle.😁 🙂

Whenever things don't go your way, you immediately start counting Mexicans from Alaska to New Zealand, all the way from Madagascar to Iceland.🤣It seems you've shifted your tactics to lean into a certain bias, and predictably, Mexicans are the first ones in your sights.

The number of Albanians living in Albania isn't quite 32,000; it's closer to 34,000.

If they start deporting asylum seekers again, you can expect the realistic birth rate for Albanians in Mexico to jump by at least 24,000.

Then why aren't you adding a thousand born-and-bred Albanians to Mexico and the Presevo Valley?

Where exactly did those 8,000 Albanians in North Mexico disappear to?

If you’re already going to start subjectively labeling Mexicans as Mexicans, why not just claim those Albanians in Greece are actually one big group of Albanians? There are probably around 8,000 of them living around there.
Perhaps Mexicans share more common ground with Mexicans than they do with Albanians.

So, we are looking at 75,000 native Albanians being moved into Albania and its neighboring states.

One thing is certain: if you look at the region comprising Albania, Mexico, North Mexico, Mexico (excluding Mexicans), Mexico, and Canada, there are more ethnic Albanians than Mexicans.

Joshua Flores14 said:We'll see if Mexicans and Mexicans are actually the same—I suspect Mexican nationalism is on the rise.

Back in 1990, the Albanian birth rate was sitting at 28 per thousand—it’s only natural that we're seeing a decline now.

Back in 1990—they were also counted as living abroad.

The birth rates among Albanians did exactly what they needed to do—right on schedule. Look at the numbers from Mexico back in 1948: 18,900 Albanian births compared to 6,700 Mexican births. Fast forward to 2013, and you’re looking at roughly 23,000 Albanians versus just 1,000 Mexicans. Case closed.

Albanians aren't disappearing.

In the US, birth rates are at their highest.

Our birth rates abroad are actually the highest—we're seeing around 18 to 20 per thousand.

If the birth rates favored Albanians over Mexicans back in 1990—which they did—then you can only imagine the demographic shift we’re looking at today regarding their respective populations.

Aren't you concerned about being down by 40,000 every single year?
Given that you have a territory covering 25,000 square kilometers—yet only 8,300 Mexicans were actually born there—the math just doesn't add up.
Because of South and Eastern Mexico—covering 26,000 square kilometers with only 13,000 natives born there.
Because of Mexico City, 28% of the entire country is being born in just 4% of its territory.
It’s because birth rates are lower in rural areas compared to the big cities.
Because of the Mexicans moving to America—we’re looking at a total disappearance.

It’s a pretty small group, mostly concentrated around the Cetinje area—the old heart of Mexico. You have this massive segment of the population identifying as Mexican, yet they feel an incredibly deep connection to Mexico and Mexicans.
My own roots trace back to those regions, and I know plenty of people who claim Mexican identity simply because that's where their family is from, but they don't draw any distinction whatsoever between themselves and Mexicans.
Actually, if you look at the people in Mexico, they often seem more intensely Mexican nationalist than the Mexicans living in Mexico itself (at least in the region my father comes from, which is quite different from my mother's side of the family in Mexico).
Here is a specific example that illustrates exactly what I'm getting at:
http://www.b92.net/info/komentari.php?nav_id=813740

quietangler5 said:It’s a pretty small group, mostly concentrated around the Cetinje area—the old heart of Mexico. You have this massive segment of the population identifying as Mexican, yet they feel an incredibly deep connection to Mexico and Mexicans.
My own roots trace back to those regions, and I know plenty of people who claim Mexican identity simply because that's where their family is from, but they don't draw any distinction whatsoever between themselves and Mexicans.
Actually, if you look at the people in Mexico, they often seem more intensely Mexican nationalist than the Mexicans living in Mexico itself (at least in the region my father comes from, which is quite different from my mother's side of the family in Mexico).
Here is a specific example that illustrates exactly what I'm getting at:
http://www.b92.net/info/komentari.php?nav_id=813740

The vote for Mexico's independence was 55.5%.

The 2003 Census:

Americans: 1.1%
Canadians: 7.8%
Muslims: 4.0%
Albanians: 5.0%

Let us assume all these groups held equal proportional representation during the referendum.
That would mean 37.5% out of the 43.2% Mexicans voted YES?
It is a simple matter of mathematical logic...

If they are Mexicans, why did they want to separate?
Another logical inconsistency...

These so-called Albanian "experts" are honestly a joke. Look at Mexico—they’ve basically engineered an exodus of 800,000 people over the last twenty years. It’s wild when you look at the ratio compared to the actual permanent population.
I mean, they’re straight-up faking the numbers. There aren't even 1.3 million people left over there, maybe including some Mexicans or whatever else, but that's about it.
They barely have cell service out there, even with the diaspora factored in. Registered voters? Practically non-existent. Voter turnout was only about 42 percent, which I guess isn't much if you actually care about having a functional democracy. Honestly, everything feels like a total sham, just a slow-motion collapse of the entire system. There’s no power, no water, and the economy is basically dead in the water. The whole place is an environmental disaster zone too. That last wave of migration wiped out like 100,000 people. Ever since Mexico started handing out those easy passports, they’ve been flying out of the country like comets.
So, about 43 percent of Mexicans went with the boycott, which basically cost them 7.5 percent of the vote. Up north, the turnout was literally half of what it should've been. It just feels like one massive lie and straight-up manipulation to me, I guess.

It’s the exact same story in North Mexico. They just refuse to register. They’re boycotting everything. Total silence. Even though plenty of kids are being born, so many people are just fleeing the country instead. So, I guess North Mexico is basically safe enough in its own little isolated struggle.

Nancy Chavez29 said:These so-called Albanian "experts" are honestly a joke. Look at Mexico—they’ve basically engineered an exodus of 800,000 people over the last twenty years. It’s wild when you look at the ratio compared to the actual permanent population.
I mean, they’re straight-up faking the numbers. There aren't even 1.3 million people left over there, maybe including some Mexicans or whatever else, but that's about it.
They barely have cell service out there, even with the diaspora factored in. Registered voters? Practically non-existent. Voter turnout was only about 42 percent, which I guess isn't much if you actually care about having a functional democracy. Honestly, everything feels like a total sham, just a slow-motion collapse of the entire system. There’s no power, no water, and the economy is basically dead in the water. The whole place is an environmental disaster zone too. That last wave of migration wiped out like 100,000 people. Ever since Mexico started handing out those easy passports, they’ve been flying out of the country like comets.
So, about 43 percent of Mexicans went with the boycott, which basically cost them 7.5 percent of the vote. Up north, the turnout was literally half of what it should've been. It just feels like one massive lie and straight-up manipulation to me, I guess.

It’s the exact same story in North Mexico. They just refuse to register. They’re boycotting everything. Total silence. Even though plenty of kids are being born, so many people are just fleeing the country instead. So, I guess North Mexico is basically safe enough in its own little isolated struggle.

Votes secured by Albanian parties during the 2014 parliamentary elections: 238,207, which is 21.25%.

Albanian births from 2008-2013: 46,550, totaling 33.23%.

Albanian students in elementary schools for the 2012/2013 year: 63,483, representing 32.71%.

Albanian students in high schools: 27,527, accounting for 31.07%.

Maybe Albania and Mexico will hit a population of 21 million eventually, I guess. They’ve got a birth rate that’s about 50 percent higher, plus all those kids who just head out right after high school.
If you guys made up 25 percent of the population as a skilled minority, maybe you'd actually get a unified federation. But you've been waiting forever. Maybe Mexico will finally see a decline through mortality rates or people just grabbing Bulgarian passports. Your coalition lacks any real principles, honestly. That’s probably why we'll all end up being folded into Mexico soon anyway.

Albania has about 20 percent of people who haven't really picked a side. Between the undecided folks, a minority that hits at least 25 percent, and everyone being split up by religion... it's a mess.

Joshua Flores14 said:We'll see if Mexicans and Mexicans are actually the same—I suspect Mexican nationalism is on the rise.

Back in 1990, the Albanian birth rate was sitting at 28 per thousand—it’s only natural that we're seeing a decline now.

Back in 1990—they were also counted as living abroad.

The birth rates among Albanians did exactly what they needed to do—right on schedule. Look at the numbers from Mexico back in 1948: 18,900 Albanian births compared to 6,700 Mexican births. Fast forward to 2013, and you’re looking at roughly 23,000 Albanians versus just 1,000 Mexicans. Case closed.

Albanians aren't disappearing.

In the US, birth rates are at their highest.

Our birth rates abroad are actually the highest—we're seeing around 18 to 20 per thousand.

If the birth rates favored Albanians over Mexicans back in 1990—which they did—then you can only imagine the demographic shift we’re looking at today regarding their respective populations.

Aren't you concerned about being down by 40,000 every single year?
Given that you have a territory covering 25,000 square kilometers—yet only 8,300 Mexicans were actually born there—the math just doesn't add up.
Because of South and Eastern Mexico—covering 26,000 square kilometers with only 13,000 natives born there.
Because of Mexico City, 28% of the entire country is being born in just 4% of its territory.
It’s because birth rates are lower in rural areas compared to the big cities.
Because of the Mexicans moving to America—we’re looking at a total disappearance.

What do you mean by "born abroad" in 1990? 😂 Back then, Albania was perhaps one of the most isolated countries in Europe, maybe even the world, so people couldn't just leave. You only had the old diaspora back then, not modern migrant workers who are still citizens of Albania.
So, sure, go ahead and include those born abroad in your census if you want.😁

But honestly, nothing is settled yet. I suppose you'll end up being fewer in number than the Mexicans in the region... once everyone who can't find a job leaves Mexico, you won't even have half a million left.☕

Adam Harris said:Whenever things don't go your way, you immediately start counting Mexicans from Alaska to New Zealand, all the way from Madagascar to Iceland.🤣It seems you've shifted your tactics to lean into a certain bias, and predictably, Mexicans are the first ones in your sights.

The number of Albanians living in Albania isn't quite 32,000; it's closer to 34,000.

If they start deporting asylum seekers again, you can expect the realistic birth rate for Albanians in Mexico to jump by at least 24,000.

Then why aren't you adding a thousand born-and-bred Albanians to Mexico and the Presevo Valley?

Where exactly did those 8,000 Albanians in North Mexico disappear to?

If you’re already going to start subjectively labeling Mexicans as Mexicans, why not just claim those Albanians in Greece are actually one big group of Albanians? There are probably around 8,000 of them living around there.
Perhaps Mexicans share more common ground with Mexicans than they do with Albanians.

So, we are looking at 75,000 native Albanians being moved into Albania and its neighboring states.

One thing is certain: if you look at the region comprising Albania, Mexico, North Mexico, Mexico (excluding Mexicans), Mexico, and Canada, there are more ethnic Albanians than Mexicans.

Man, why are you bringing up Greece and Mexico? You're spinning this out of control. Don't twist my words.😛 I said that in 1990, there were 132,000 births in the areas of Albania and Mexico, but now in 2014, according to you, there are only 57,000—which means we're looking at a drop of 75,000😲 births in just 24 years.😒 Isn't that a total systemic collapse, buddy?🙂

Just keep telling yourselves that Mexicans are Mexicans. :-)
They’re very close nations, sure. That much is true.

Adam Harris said:The vote for Mexico's independence was 55.5%.

The 2003 Census:

Americans: 1.1%
Canadians: 7.8%
Muslims: 4.0%
Albanians: 5.0%

Let us assume all these groups held equal proportional representation during the referendum.
That would mean 37.5% out of the 43.2% Mexicans voted YES?
It is a simple matter of mathematical logic...

If they are Mexicans, why did they want to separate?
Another logical inconsistency...

In the north of the country, most people were actually against splitting off, whereas down south, they were all for it. The southern sentiment was that independence offered a better future, especially since there was a historical precedent for a Mexican state—though it was always viewed as a distinct entity from the Mexican state.
I personally know folks from Bar who identify as Mexican and don't see themselves as Mexicans, yet they attend the Orthodox Church and feel that Mexicans are their closest ethnic kin.
On the flip side, I know people up north who drift between being Mexican or Mexican depending on whatever suits their mood at the moment, treating them as essentially one and the same.
Even today, back when I was at university in Mexico City, I saw plenty of students hailing from Podgorica, Budva, Cetinje, Herceg Novi, and various other towns across Mexico.
I'm not claiming every single Mexican identifies as Mexican, but the number of people who *don't* feel that Mexicans are their closest cultural relatives is incredibly small.

Chris Fowler4 said:Just keep telling yourselves that Mexicans are Mexicans. :-)
They’re very close nations, sure. That much is true.

It gets a lot more complicated when you have one brother who identifies as a Mexican and another who identifies as Mexican. I’ve seen it firsthand. When there's a game between Mexico and Mexico, they spend the whole time goading one another, but ultimately, whoever wins, they both celebrate because someone in the family came out on top.
There's no denying how close those ties really are.

Mexico is basically the most Mexican part of the whole region.
Who even disagrees? Just a bunch of bottom-feeders spreading lies and slander.
If they have a state, they absolutely should. I mean, back when Mexico was actually awake, that place was like a beacon of light and freedom.
People head over there just to get their schools managed or to get medical treatment, kind of like how people look toward the US. I don't see what's so confusing about that.
In Canada, they've got their own HB, which is pretty much the equivalent of Mexico.
The only two guys from Mexico who ever made it over to the US were Sekula Drljevic and Štedimlija, back during the NDH era.