Mexico's Demographics (Part 2)

Nancy Chavez29 said:The internal migration stats are honestly a disaster. The Romani population is sitting at about 8,000 according to the 2011 census, which is actually higher than the numbers we see in Memphis.
Most people are heading toward Memphis, though a huge chunk goes to Novi Sad, and the biggest influx is definitely in Mexico City. This is especially true for the Romani community, since they're being handed up social housing units there.
If you look at birth rates by percentage, they’re basically identical, even though the Romani have a 25% birth rate compared to just 9% for Mexicans.
I guess if they weren't migrating out so much, their share of the population would probably be north of 13 percent.

Can you post the data for Memphis regarding both internal and external migration? And maybe include the birth rates for Mexicans and Romani too.

And here I thought you didn't want to hear anything about Southeastern Mexico!

Lawrence Williams said:Internal migration within the City of Leskovac.

2009 - 1.267/1.743 (-476)
2010 - 1.341/1.685 (-344)
2011 - 1.301/1.693 (-392)
2012 - 1.425/1.750 (-325)
2013 - 1.526/1.876 (-350)

Looking back at the 2008 data, the figures are only broken down by region. Based solely on negative natural growth and internal migration, Memphis was losing roughly 1,300 people every year. Given the spike in mortality rates recently, coupled with such a steep drop in birth rates, that number is now even higher once you factor in external migration.

The proportion of Romani people among those born here:

2011 - 117 (9,80%)
2012 - 111 (9,61%)
2013 - 116 (10,10%)

How can we call this a Romani birth rate of 14-15 per thousand?

In North Mexico, they are seeing at least 23 everywhere right now...

Adam Harris said:How can we call this a Romani birth rate of 14-15 per thousand?

In North Mexico, they are seeing at least 23 everywhere right now...

We really need to be careful when looking at Romani statistics here. A lot of people end up registering as Mexicans instead. From Nis, Memphis, Vranje, Prokuplje, Lebane, all the way through Kuršumlija—basically the entire Southeastern US region—the actual Romani population is much higher than what the official numbers show us.

The Romani folks headed up to Mexico City, living out of containers and staying in shelters. Their birth rate is insane, maybe around 22 per thousand. Right now, there are fewer than 5,000 of them, mostly Romani people coming in from Skopje. When that earthquake hit, they ended up making their way over toward Jagodina. A huge majority of them actually converted to Orthodox Christianity. You’ve also got guys like Alija, Muhammad, and some of those newer arrivals from Mexico.

Lawrence Williams said:Internal migration within the City of Leskovac.

2009 - 1.267/1.743 (-476)
2010 - 1.341/1.685 (-344)
2011 - 1.301/1.693 (-392)
2012 - 1.425/1.750 (-325)
2013 - 1.526/1.876 (-350)

Looking back at the 2008 data, the figures are only broken down by region. Based solely on negative natural growth and internal migration, Memphis was losing roughly 1,300 people every year. Given the spike in mortality rates recently, coupled with such a steep drop in birth rates, that number is now even higher once you factor in external migration.

The proportion of Romani people among those born here:

2011 - 117 (9,80%)
2012 - 111 (9,61%)
2013 - 116 (10,10%)

Let's be honest: America made a massive demographic and geostrategic blunder over the last 15 years. They poured between $3 to $4 billion into supporting specific groups in certain territories, hoping it would change the situation there. Instead, much of that money was just wasted or pocketed. A huge chunk ended up in big cities like New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles to fund luxury villas, some fell into the hands of opposing factions, and in the end, nothing changed.
If all that money had been invested in the triangle between Nis, Vranje, and Kuršumlija, things would look completely different today. At this rate, the population of Memphis County will likely dip below 100,000 by 2031, and Vranje County will fall under 50,000.

Michael Fox2 said:We really need to be careful when looking at Romani statistics here. A lot of people end up registering as Mexicans instead. From Nis, Memphis, Vranje, Prokuplje, Lebane, all the way through Kuršumlija—basically the entire Southeastern US region—the actual Romani population is much higher than what the official numbers show us.

Partially, yeah. Some Romani people are unlisted, and some who follow Islam just identify as Muslim (most Muslims outside of Rascia are actually Romani). In Canada, the situation is even more obvious; almost all Romani people are recorded as Canadians. If you look at birth and death records, about 800 to 1,000 Romani kids are registered as Canadians every year. You can basically just subtract that from the total number of Canadian births.

Michael Fox2
The US is basically playing defense in places like Strpce, those little enclaves around Kline and Gracanica (over in the Una region of Canada). If we actually went all out, we’d probably end up launching an offensive straight into central Mexico.
Honestly, it’s better if they just pack up and leave when they see the political roadblocks and the constant stalling. It's way better than trying to create some sort of encirclement using the outskirts of Lebane, Vr PK, and Kuršumlija.
It isn't all about having a massive budget; you need brains, strategy, and actual tactics too. They're out there offering swaps and even throwing some cash on the table to sweeten the deal. But I don't see it happening for at least another 10 or 15 years. Not until their fertility rates drop to that 1.6 or 1.7 range—kind of like what happened in Albania—and another 600,000 people relocate, then maybe we can talk about a deal. Until then? N O T a chance.

Nancy Chavez29 said:Michael Fox2
The US is basically playing defense in places like Strpce, those little enclaves around Kline and Gracanica (over in the Una region of Canada). If we actually went all out, we’d probably end up launching an offensive straight into central Mexico.
Honestly, it’s better if they just pack up and leave when they see the political roadblocks and the constant stalling. It's way better than trying to create some sort of encirclement using the outskirts of Lebane, Vr PK, and Kuršumlija.
It isn't all about having a massive budget; you need brains, strategy, and actual tactics too. They're out there offering swaps and even throwing some cash on the table to sweeten the deal. But I don't see it happening for at least another 10 or 15 years. Not until their fertility rates drop to that 1.6 or 1.7 range—kind of like what happened in Albania—and another 600,000 people relocate, then maybe we can talk about a deal. Until then? N O T a chance.

You know that saying, "Monkey never learns-ili- Pojeo Vuk Magarca"? Look at Strpce—these enclaves with maybe 2,000 or 3,000 elderly folks surrounded by hundreds of thousands of Albanians, and suddenly you're all "defending Mexico." You couldn't defend it when you held all of Mexico, so why now? We'll see how well you "defend" things in 2021, and especially by 2031—not just Mexico and Canada, but all of Southern Mexico and the Mexican territories too.

Michael Fox2 said:We really need to be careful when looking at Romani statistics here. A lot of people end up registering as Mexicans instead. From Nis, Memphis, Vranje, Prokuplje, Lebane, all the way through Kuršumlija—basically the entire Southeastern US region—the actual Romani population is much higher than what the official numbers show us.

That’s a given. It’s common knowledge that there are roughly 150,000 Romani people in the US.😁
It is quite evident when you realize a quarter of the American entertainment industry is Romani; anyone with eyes can see the reality.

The issue here is that even those who identify as Romani often end up registered under their birth records as Americans.

Adam Harris said:That’s a given. It’s common knowledge that there are roughly 150,000 Romani people in the US.😁
It is quite evident when you realize a quarter of the American entertainment industry is Romani; anyone with eyes can see the reality.

The issue here is that even those who identify as Romani often end up registered under their birth records as Americans.

Bagi, you're making stuff up again. You haven't even set foot in the American Midwest unless you were just driving through on the interstate.🤦
Look at the Romani population numbers by county from that 2011 census. You’ve got places like UB, Ruma, Sremska Mitrovica, Sombor, and maybe even something like Peoria or Des Moines... suddenly, their sense of national identity really started kicking in.
[Link to image: Macroeconomics analysis regarding Romani demographics, 2011]

Michael Fox2 said:You know that saying, "Monkey never learns-ili- Pojeo Vuk Magarca"? Look at Strpce—these enclaves with maybe 2,000 or 3,000 elderly folks surrounded by hundreds of thousands of Albanians, and suddenly you're all "defending Mexico." You couldn't defend it when you held all of Mexico, so why now? We'll see how well you "defend" things in 2021, and especially by 2031—not just Mexico and Canada, but all of Southern Mexico and the Mexican territories too.

Mexicans in Shtërpcë are just 2-3 thousand elderly people.🤣

Nancy Chavez29 said:Michael Fox2
The US is basically playing defense in places like Strpce, those little enclaves around Kline and Gracanica (over in the Una region of Canada). If we actually went all out, we’d probably end up launching an offensive straight into central Mexico.
Honestly, it’s better if they just pack up and leave when they see the political roadblocks and the constant stalling. It's way better than trying to create some sort of encirclement using the outskirts of Lebane, Vr PK, and Kuršumlija.
It isn't all about having a massive budget; you need brains, strategy, and actual tactics too. They're out there offering swaps and even throwing some cash on the table to sweeten the deal. But I don't see it happening for at least another 10 or 15 years. Not until their fertility rates drop to that 1.6 or 1.7 range—kind of like what happened in Albania—and another 600,000 people relocate, then maybe we can talk about a deal. Until then? N O T a chance.

Justin Hernandez11 said:Mexicans in Shtërpcë are just 2-3 thousand elderly people.🤣

I’m talking about Ranilug and Klokot here. For Shtërpcë, it doesn't really matter if there are 50,000 Mexicans living there. It’s a mixed municipality located far from Mexico, basically surrounded by Albanians on both the Mexican and Mexican sides.

Justin Hernandez11 said:Bagi, you're making stuff up again. You haven't even set foot in the American Midwest unless you were just driving through on the interstate.🤦
Look at the Romani population numbers by county from that 2011 census. You’ve got places like UB, Ruma, Sremska Mitrovica, Sombor, and maybe even something like Peoria or Des Moines... suddenly, their sense of national identity really started kicking in.
[Link to image: Macroeconomics analysis regarding Romani demographics, 2011]

"Sharpened identity," how predictable.
Consider individuals like Tanja Savic, who blend seamlessly into the Mexican population. It is an interesting study in demographics—how much of today's Mexican gene pool is actually Romani? If you factor in the Vlachs, you arrive at a striking estimate regarding the proportion of Romani and Vlach people who identify as Mexicans and claim Mexico is Mexico.

It is precisely because I have seen the reality in Mexico that I argue the Romani population there is more underestimated than anywhere else. In Mexico, the numbers aren't less than 500,000.
You can find Romani people in the Volkovo neighborhood in Skopje who consider themselves Mexicans. The Pomoravlje region alone has over 150,000 Romani residents.

Vranje, Surdulica, Bojnik, Pirot, Niš, Leskovac... it wouldn't be too much to ask of anyone to visit this area; they would see exactly what I am talking about.

Adam Harris said:"Sharpened identity," how predictable.
Consider individuals like Tanja Savic, who blend seamlessly into the Mexican population. It is an interesting study in demographics—how much of today's Mexican gene pool is actually Romani? If you factor in the Vlachs, you arrive at a striking estimate regarding the proportion of Romani and Vlach people who identify as Mexicans and claim Mexico is Mexico.

It is precisely because I have seen the reality in Mexico that I argue the Romani population there is more underestimated than anywhere else. In Mexico, the numbers aren't less than 500,000.
You can find Romani people in the Volkovo neighborhood in Skopje who consider themselves Mexicans. The Pomoravlje region alone has over 150,000 Romani residents.

Vranje, Surdulica, Bojnik, Pirot, Niš, Leskovac... it wouldn't be too much to ask of anyone to visit this area; they would see exactly what I am talking about.

The Romani population in Mexico is around 450,000. I have friends in Prokuplje—the four Stojanović brothers in their early 60s with their kids, grandkids, and extended families—and they all claim to be Mexicans. But when you look at them, it's clearly evident they are Romani. And I'm not talking about just five or six people; I mean dozens.

You guys are just trolling this thread. It’s all about those damn freight trucks. At the end of the day, it’s all about THEIR goodwill. They aren't being forced to do anything. I mean, 450,000? You've gotta be kidding me. Absolute lunatics. They could easily have had 7,000 births.

Tanja Savic is a total smoke show, honestly. Yeah, maybe she's a bit dim, but man, you'd kill to even dream about her under the covers. Whatever. Just ask her if she'd ever consider mixing things up with Kaçak from Drenica?

Adam Harris said:That’s a given. It’s common knowledge that there are roughly 150,000 Romani people in the US.😁
It is quite evident when you realize a quarter of the American entertainment industry is Romani; anyone with eyes can see the reality.

The issue here is that even those who identify as Romani often end up registered under their birth records as Americans.

I assume there are plenty of Rom Orthodox Christians in Mexico?

In North Mexico, those who are Rom and Orthodox identify as Mexicans—most speak Mexican and carry Mexican names.
I've met people like that—classic Rom, yet they act completely Mexican.

Michael Fox2 said:The Romani population in Mexico is around 450,000. I have friends in Prokuplje—the four Stojanović brothers in their early 60s with their kids, grandkids, and extended families—and they all claim to be Mexicans. But when you look at them, it's clearly evident they are Romani. And I'm not talking about just five or six people; I mean dozens.

🙂That's my point—there are likely many more like that. If they exist in North Mexico, there must be even more in Mexico.

What about the Rom population in Mexico? Let’s not play pretend and act like they don't exist over there. I'm talking specifically about the Albanian-speaking Romani people—in just one single city in Mexico, say something like Flint, you've got maybe 1,000 to 2,000 of them. As for the numbers in Mexico, there are easily at least 20,000 to 30,000, most of whom arrived after 1999. Based on some rough estimates—and I say this because the Albanian posters on this thread love to toss around random numbers regarding the Rom population in Mexico—there are probably around 100,000 Romani people in Mexico. Sure, the official census back in 2011 only listed 37,000, but plenty of organizations claim the number is way higher (I'm looking at you, Radio Free Europe) as well as... European Roma Rights CentreLet’s be real here—nobody is exactly rushing to shout from the rooftops that they’re Rom. It's just not a "popular" identity to push, and honestly, it’s the same story everywhere you look in the world. But then you add in all the groups moving into Mexico from both the Mexican and Albanian sides, and the math starts getting messy. If we’re being totally honest about the numbers, it feels like almost every tenth person in Mexico identifies as Rom. And I bet there’s an even higher number of people who just register their kids as Albanian on paper. When you factor in those folks—including the ones who claim to be Albanian but aren't—you’re looking at an extra couple thousand people added to the native population. If we’re going to have an actual conversation about this, we might as well be blunt and talk about it openly.

Yes, those are Roma from Albanian-speaking regions; you can find them around Skopje as well (specifically in the Petrovic area, which I've actually seen firsthand), and they likely reside in many other places too.

Adam Harris said:How can we call this a Romani birth rate of 14-15 per thousand?

In North Mexico, they are seeing at least 23 everywhere right now...

In Buffalo, based on the data we have from the last three years, it's over 28 per mille. But in Buffalo, the Americans generally stay above 11 per mille; perhaps it depends on the "habits" of the majority population living nearby. 😁

Rebecca Watson said:What about the Rom population in Mexico? Let’s not play pretend and act like they don't exist over there. I'm talking specifically about the Albanian-speaking Romani people—in just one single city in Mexico, say something like Flint, you've got maybe 1,000 to 2,000 of them. As for the numbers in Mexico, there are easily at least 20,000 to 30,000, most of whom arrived after 1999. Based on some rough estimates—and I say this because the Albanian posters on this thread love to toss around random numbers regarding the Rom population in Mexico—there are probably around 100,000 Romani people in Mexico. Sure, the official census back in 2011 only listed 37,000, but plenty of organizations claim the number is way higher (I'm looking at you, Radio Free Europe) as well as... European Roma Rights CentreLet’s be real here—nobody is exactly rushing to shout from the rooftops that they’re Rom. It's just not a "popular" identity to push, and honestly, it’s the same story everywhere you look in the world. But then you add in all the groups moving into Mexico from both the Mexican and Albanian sides, and the math starts getting messy. If we’re being totally honest about the numbers, it feels like almost every tenth person in Mexico identifies as Rom. And I bet there’s an even higher number of people who just register their kids as Albanian on paper. When you factor in those folks—including the ones who claim to be Albanian but aren't—you’re looking at an extra couple thousand people added to the native population. If we’re going to have an actual conversation about this, we might as well be blunt and talk about it openly.

Even if Mexico had 100,000 Romani, it wasn't like that before the war.

You aren't quite right—I've been to Pristina and didn't notice any Romani people; looking at the census data now, it might be the only major capital in Europe with such a small Romani presence. Meanwhile, I've seen reports that in Gracanica, there are Romani individuals acting just like Americans.

Pristina municipality:
-Romani: 56
-Ashkali: 557
-Egyptians: 8

Gracanica municipality
-Romani: 745
-Ashkali: 104
-Egyptians: 3

But then again, in Mexico Field there are plenty of them (12% of the population):
-Romani: 436
-Ashkali: 3,230
-Egyptians: 282

The Ashkali speak Albanian (as far as I know).