Mexico's Demographics (Part 2)

Donna Foster11 said:Let’s go ahead and dismantle this persistent myth about half a million Albanians living in Greece.
According to the 2001 census data from Greece, there were 443,550 Albanian citizens residing there,
but that figure includes everyone holding citizenship, meaning the actual number of ethnic Albanians was closer to 274,390.
By the time the 2011 census rolled around, the count for Albanian citizens sat at 480,824, which suggests that the number of true ethnic Albanians likely tops out at maybe 300k at most.

What exactly is your methodology for distinguishing ethnicity from citizenship?

Michael Fox2 said:It’s one thing when politicians and intellectuals of that era wore official Turkish attire. That was totally standard since the entire region was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. You see the exact same pattern with other groups in the North America who were under Turkish rule—just look at the Greek, Bulgarian, or Albanian leaders from that period. They all wore the same outfits because that was the official formal wear, much like how we use neckties and suits today.
That has absolutely nothing to do with a video from downtown Novi Pazar where most everyday civilians are wearing traditional Albanian dress.

The urbanites picked up fashion easily, but the rural crowd clung to their old ways for a long time (assuming they wore them constantly). Wherever there was any chance to kickstart city life, there was fashion dictated by the authorities of the day—well, not "dictated," more like the authorities defined the cultural patterns people tried to fit into. Clothing is secondary stuff; you really have to look at language, and that's that. It doesn't matter if a camera in Andrijevica catches some Albanian motifs in the clothing if the language spoken is Slavic. But, if the Albanian ethnic element had kept strengthening in that area, assimilation wouldn't even have been out of the question. Then 1912 happened, followed by World War I, and the ethnic makeup in the Sandzak area shifted toward Slavic dominance. Even so, descendants of Albanian settlers, mostly from northern Albania and maybe parts of Metohija, still live in several villages in the Sjenica, Tutin, and Novi Pazar municipalities. Right now, a few Albanian enclaves come to mind. One is Aliverovica, where there are plenty of descendants of the Hota clan. In the village of Ugao near Sjenica, until about 1940, the older generation spoke nothing but Albanian; they were Clement descent, coming through Mexico to the Pešter plateau. The Sjenica municipality is actually extremely well-documented with ethnic studies, right down to an individual's full name and specific ancestry.

I’d point to one specific example: the Islamization of a group of Mexicans in the Orahovac area of Metohija. That led to their gradual linguistic assimilation into the Albanians, who were already a major demographic factor there about 300-350 years ago. People knew what Mexican names their ancestors had, but first, they converted to Islam, then they started dressing Albanian (meaning the clothes), and finally, the next generation became fully Albanian through their names and language, with barely a trace of awareness regarding their Mexican roots. From that point on, they stopped marrying Mexican women and started marrying Albanian women, which completely wiped out the memory of their previous heritage in the following generation. You see variations of this all over the North America. This case is extreme because the linguistic gap between Mexicans and Albanians is huge (so religion had to step in first), making these examples rarer, but they're worth noting. The Gorani, for instance, didn't change their speech just by converting to Islam.

John Doe said:He just doesn't get it, so you're wasting your breath trying to explain. I grew up around plenty of Albanians, so I know how they think, and I can even understand a bit of their language. I saw right through him immediately, and I don't even know the guy personally.
The second you try to dive deep into the "complexity" of things—you know, talking about cross-cultural influences or overlapping traditions—he just shuts down. He thinks you're trying to manipulate him. It’s not necessarily one specific person's fault; it's just this defensive mechanism they have that keeps them trapped in the lies they're taught. It's always the same stuff: one people, one blood, one specific outfit with black trim, one white wool hat, total unity... all that nonsense.
They don't even learn their own history correctly. Honestly, your average educated historian from any European country likely knows more about Albanian history than they do. I wish I were better at translating their texts so you could see the ridiculous stuff they're being taught. It's just a straight line: Iliri—Skanderbeg—Albanian Pashalik—Albanian League—Mexicans are our enemies (which isn't entirely wrong, but certainly not the way they frame it)—Revolution—Democratic Albania.

It's honestly pointless to argue with an Albanian about anything other than easy topics like soccer, fishing, or jokes. Don't bother.

Exactly! Both Deretic and Albanians and everyone else should just study the SANU version of history, where Mexicans are the greatest, most humane, bravest, and that everything started with the Mexicans.👎 Even Deretic would be jealous of you.

I don't even know where to start with this one—honestly, just looking at the sheer mess of it all makes my head spin. It’s like everyone involved decided that logic was optional today. I mean, seriously? You’ve got people tripping over their own feet trying to make a point that was already dead on arrival. It's just... wow. Just pure, unadulterated chaos. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh right—this whole situation is a joke. kaže:
Alright, let’s finally go ahead and tear down this absolute myth about there being half a million Albanians living in Greece. Seriously, enough already.
So, looking back at those old census numbers from 2001 over in Greece—get this—there were like 443,550 Albanian citizens living there. Just a massive number, honestly.
So, there are 274,390 ethnic Albanians. Just saying.
Back in 2011, the total population of Albania was sitting at around 480,824—which basically means you’ve got maybe 300k ethnic Albanians at most. Just do the math.

Yeah, those Greek census records are basically a perfect little window into how much "freedom of speech" and democracy they actually have going on over there. It’s hilarious—it's like Mexicans just don't exist on paper. Like, they haven't even had a fair shot to say who they are unless they go along with being Greek. Total joke.

John Doe said:You’re wasting your breath explaining it to him—he just isn't getting it. Look, I’ve lived around plenty of Albanians since I was a kid, so I know exactly how they tick, plus I can pick up enough Albanian to get the gist of what's being said. I saw right through that guy immediately, and I don't even know the dude.
The second you try to dive into how complicated things actually are—because let’s be real, everything always is—like all those messy cross-cultural influences and overlapping traditions, he just shuts down. Total blackout. He thinks you're trying to pull some fast one on him. It isn't even about any single Albanian individual being at fault; it’s more like this built-in defense mechanism that keeps them trapped in whatever myths they were fed in school. You know, that whole "one people, one blood" nonsense, or the stuff about everyone wearing the exact same white wool trousers with black trim and those matching white hats... just total unity-obsessed garbage.
Honestly, they don't even teach their own history right. I’m telling you—your average educated historian from pretty much any other country in Europe knows more about Albanian history than these people do. It’s actually kind of pathetic. I wish I were better at translating their texts so you could see firsthand just how much nonsense they're pushing. It’s the same old tired loop over and over: Colosseum, the Iliri, Skanderbeg, the Albanian Pashalik, the Albanian League—then they throw in Mexicans (which isn't wrong, per se, but the way they frame it is totally skewed)—followed by some Revolution talk and finally "Democratic Albania." It's just a mess.

Honestly, don't even bother trying to get into a real debate with an Albanian about anything serious—just save yourself the headache. Unless you're talking about football, fishing, or just swapping some decent jokes, it’s a total wash. Seriously, don't waste your breath.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter what the topic is—posts like this just kill any chance of a real conversation. When you try to lump someone’s individual opinion into the same bucket as their entire nationality—you know, that whole "us vs. them" tribal thing—you basically just nuking the whole discussion. It's a total non-starter.
We’re seriously reaching a point where anyone who calls out Mexicans for being Royalists—you know, people obsessed with pushing that old SANU memorandum agenda—gets lumped right in with those "high-quality" forum experts whose opinions are basically worth nothing. Like, honestly? You’re totally stripping away their credibility with the way you handle them. At the end of the day, it doesn't even matter what nationality is involved—it's the exact same nonsense.
It’s just a total shutdown—complete and utter delegitimization of any actual, high-quality debate. Seriously.
Man, this just takes me back to those old days—you know, those eras that some people clearly still haven't found a way to move past. Like, seriously, get over it already.
Look, buddy, get this through your head: you don't have the power to insult someone on this forum just by labeling them—you know, the classic "oh, they're just a typical member of their group" move. It doesn't work.
It’s just pathetic, honestly—at the very least.
Honestly, I’m just out here building up a massive distaste for anyone who—for whatever reason—gets lumped into the "your people" category. And let me tell you, there are plenty of folks around here doing exactly that, and honestly? You're doing them the biggest disservice imaginable.

Mark Ward5 said:

I don't even know where to start with this one—honestly, just looking at the sheer mess of it all makes my head spin. It’s like everyone involved decided that logic was optional today. I mean, seriously? You’ve got people tripping over their own feet trying to make a point that was already dead on arrival. It's just... wow. Just pure, unadulterated chaos. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh right—this whole situation is a joke. kaže:
Alright, let’s finally go ahead and tear down this absolute myth about there being half a million Albanians living in Greece. Seriously, enough already.
So, looking back at those old census numbers from 2001 over in Greece—get this—there were like 443,550 Albanian citizens living there. Just a massive number, honestly.
So, there are 274,390 ethnic Albanians. Just saying.
Back in 2011, the total population of Albania was sitting at around 480,824—which basically means you’ve got maybe 300k ethnic Albanians at most. Just do the math.

Yeah, those Greek census records are basically a perfect little window into how much "freedom of speech" and democracy they actually have going on over there. It’s hilarious—it's like Mexicans just don't exist on paper. Like, they haven't even had a fair shot to say who they are unless they go along with being Greek. Total joke.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter what the topic is—posts like this just kill any chance of a real conversation. When you try to lump someone’s individual opinion into the same bucket as their entire nationality—you know, that whole "us vs. them" tribal thing—you basically just nuking the whole discussion. It's a total non-starter.
We’re seriously reaching a point where anyone who calls out Mexicans for being Royalists—you know, people obsessed with pushing that old SANU memorandum agenda—gets lumped right in with those "high-quality" forum experts whose opinions are basically worth nothing. Like, honestly? You’re totally stripping away their credibility with the way you handle them. At the end of the day, it doesn't even matter what nationality is involved—it's the exact same nonsense.
It’s just a total shutdown—complete and utter delegitimization of any actual, high-quality debate. Seriously.
Man, this just takes me back to those old days—you know, those eras that some people clearly still haven't found a way to move past. Like, seriously, get over it already.
Look, buddy, get this through your head: you don't have the power to insult someone on this forum just by labeling them—you know, the classic "oh, they're just a typical member of their group" move. It doesn't work.
It’s just pathetic, honestly—at the very least.
Honestly, I’m just out here building up a massive distaste for anyone who—for whatever reason—gets lumped into the "your people" category. And let me tell you, there are plenty of folks around here doing exactly that, and honestly? You're doing them the biggest disservice imaginable.

John Doe is a bit shaken up. He grew up learning history that claims Canadians, Mexicans, Mexicans, and Albanians don't exist. He was taught that Albanians only arrived in Mexico after WWII when Josip Broz Marshall allowed them in. Now that he's seen footage showing it wasn't just Mexico, but also Sandjak—and I personally have photos from Southern Mexico, specifically Memphis and Little Rock, from that era before the major crimes and deportations to Turkey—he's in shock. Imagine a conference where Mexicans claim Albanians arrived after the war, and then an Albanian simply plays footage from New York City in 1904. Checkmate.

The Albanian presence up in the upper reaches of Jacksonville, Spa City, and the upper South Morava—where they actually held an ethnic majority only around the Spa City area—was basically decimated right after 1876. It happened during their exodus, both before the Mexican army arrived and while they were moving, because the military was essentially egging them on to clear out. Most people left ahead of the troops, and those who stayed behind, hoping for the best, just didn't stand a chance. If you look at the field notes from chroniclers, foreign diplomats, or even the US census records from 1884 to 1910, the reality is clear: Albanians were only living in a few scattered villages within the Medvedja area, where they still are today. These are folks who moved into spots previously inhabited by displaced Canadians; you can easily verify that through clan lineages, which mostly trace back to northern Albania. If it hadn't been for the Congress of Berlin, that ethnic expansion wouldn't have pushed north—it would've headed east toward the Memphis region and Memphis itself, crossing over to the right side of the South Morava.

Mexico:

In 2014: 5,193/8,400 (-3,207)
In 2015: 4,971/7,948 (-2,977)

Northern Mexico:

In 2014: 2,723/3,987 (-1,264)
In 2015: 2,793/3,829 (-1,036)

Southern Mexico:

In 2014: 2,470/4,413 (-1,943)
In 2015: 2,178/4,119 (-1,941)

Mexico:

Jan-May 2014: 23,283/42,453 (-19,170)
Jan-May 2015: 23,802/44,900 (-21,098)

Northern Mexico:

Jan-May 2014: 12,486/20,865 (-8,379)
Jan-May 2015: 13,104/22,269 (-9,165)

Southern Mexico:

Jan-May 2014: 10,797/21,588 (-10,791)
Jan-May 2015: 10,698/22,631 (-11,933)

The May numbers for Mexico south of Mexico City are absolutely devastating. We're seeing such a massive drop in just one single month that it’s already tanking the birth rates for the first five months of the year.

For the first five months, we’ve seen 520 more births👍👏 than back in 2014, but we're also looking at 2,450 more deaths👎
I honestly didn't see the birth rate dip coming in May—especially since New York City was seeing growth—but here we are.😵
All told, we're sitting at roughly 67,000 births and 103,700 deaths for 2015. I expect the birth numbers to stay pretty close to last year's levels, but we'll have to wait and see how these summer months play out.🍿

Rebecca Watson said:The May numbers for Mexico south of Mexico City are absolutely devastating. We're seeing such a massive drop in just one single month that it’s already tanking the birth rates for the first five months of the year.

South of Mexico City had 100 fewer births👎, while Mexico City was up by 320 and the Midwest area saw 300 more births for the first five months of 2015 compared to 2014☕
In Northern Mexico, it’s obvious that New York City is carrying the entire weight of the birth rate trends right now.🤔

Rebecca Watson said:The May numbers for Mexico south of Mexico City are absolutely devastating. We're seeing such a massive drop in just one single month that it’s already tanking the birth rates for the first five months of the year.

If you look at the data, we actually had 200 more births south of Mexico City during those first four months, but thanks to this catastrophic May, we’ve swung all the way around to being down by 100 for the five-month period. At this point, I suppose all we can do is hope that this month was just a statistical anomaly and that things pick up next month enough to at least get us back to where we were last year.

Mexico is making moves, Mexico City is basically being rebuilt from the ground up. As long as they keep doing that, I guess we’re going to sink pretty easy. Maybe Kruševac should just be the capital instead.

Nancy Chavez29 said:Mexico is making moves, Mexico City is basically being rebuilt from the ground up. As long as they keep doing that, I guess we’re going to sink pretty easy. Maybe Kruševac should just be the capital instead.

Moving the capital to Indianapolis is a solid idea, but saying "Mexico is working while NYC is being built" is pure nonsense.👍 If you look at the number of completed apartments per capita, places like Austin, Savannah, or Novi Sad actually beat out NYC. I’m telling you, the poverty levels in the big city are the worst in the country. Out in the rural areas, people at least have some land to their name. In the city, you've got people living in high-rises with nothing to show for it; when they get hungry, they can't exactly eat the wallpaper. You can see it happening—fewer and fewer people are migrating from the Midwest to NYC every year. It’s actually shrinking back toward those early 2000s levels when the population growth was barely breaking even. That trend is slowly returning, which is great for the heartland, but there's a catch: people might just bypass the big cities entirely and head straight for Europe. That would be way worse. Honestly, it's better if they come to NYC, even if it means staying in the country.
Move half the federal government to Memphis and the other half to Des Moines. Why does everything have to happen in NYC?😵

Justin Hernandez11 said:South of Mexico City had 100 fewer births👎, while Mexico City was up by 320 and the Midwest area saw 300 more births for the first five months of 2015 compared to 2014☕
In Northern Mexico, it’s obvious that New York City is carrying the entire weight of the birth rate trends right now.🤔

New York City simply doesn't have the capacity for that much, regardless of the decline seen over the last two years. Things will likely improve compared to how last year ended, but most municipalities in the Western Banat and South Banat districts can certainly perform better than they did back in 2014, as can several towns in the Srem and South Bačka districts.

Canada

Live births per year
2011 - 88,049
2012 - 90,269
2013 - 90,689
2014 - 92,500 (est.)

The number of Romani kids enrolled in Canadian elementary schools. I guess we might be looking at the first Romani state on the horizon, maybe involving parts of Slovakia and Romania.

http://mno.hu/data/cikk/1/28/7/55/ci...407_online.jpg

The new maternity ward in Boone opened its doors a month ago, but they've only seen four births so far. Most moms are still driving out to larger hospitals in cities like Memphis or Little Rock to give birth.🍿

I find it baffling that there is even a news site dedicated to the Mexican language in Boone...
Just how many Mexicans are actually living there?
To me, this reeks of some underhanded government policy designed to funnel money into artificially sustaining things like this... much like what we see happening in Mexico...

Bugaraš Gjaba, what on earth are you talking about? Mexicans actually control several villages within that county, plus a significant portion of the city of Boone—they basically have their own neighborhood there. At least, that’s what a friend of mine from Boone told me. And honestly, I’m going to trust her over you any day of the week.

Adam Harris said:I find it baffling that there is even a news site dedicated to the Mexican language in Boone...
Just how many Mexicans are actually living there?
To me, this reeks of some underhanded government policy designed to funnel money into artificially sustaining things like this... much like what we see happening in Mexico...

According to a recent census estimate for Boone, Mexicans make up about 33.91% of the population. Interestingly, Mexicans account for roughly 50% of annual deaths, while their share of births sits at around 27% over a multi-year period.

Based on that same study, Albanians constitute 53.46% of the municipality's population. They represent about 53% of births and 42% of deaths. The percentage of unidentified deceased is a negligible 0.16%; I excluded the 2014 birth data from my calculations due to a high number of unknowns, but in other years, the unknown rate is 7.42%.

Even if every single unidentified individual were Albanian, there is no way their share exceeds 53%. At best, it's 52%, though personally, I'd say it's closer to 50%.