What's the point of required reading?

The real question is whether this book actually holds up for kids today or if it’s just stuck in the last century.

I find myself wondering what the ultimate purpose of required reading actually is, though since elementary school requires it, we follow along regardless. My child is currently in third grade, and given certain reading challenges and ongoing work with a speech therapist, our approach is quite specific. Every assigned book has to be read aloud; frankly, it isn't always the most pleasant listening experience, but it was the advice we were given. It is a slow, exhausting process, and while my little one is trying their absolute best, it certainly isn't easy. Right now, they are working through Peter Pan, and everything read up to this point has been either retold orally or completed via written assignments—sometimes even involving a formal quiz.

For the older fifth graders, the curriculum shifts slightly: one book per month, a brief summary of each work, and maintaining a reading journal to note what they liked or disliked and why. They also have to write essays tied to the books. We’ve had three stories covered through Kahoot!, and they occasionally attend extra sessions with their creative arts teacher from the local academy. They even experimented with a Padlet project recently.
For those born Americans, English class is often just a complete bore.☕

wanderingbadger44 said:For heaven's sake, please explain to me why it would be in a teacher's best interest to force a child to learn something specifically when it goes against what the parent wants. I am genuinely asking you to walk me through that logic.

What exactly is this supposed "teacher's interest" you're talking about?

I could certainly give you plenty of examples regarding a teacher's interest in not pushing back against a parent's wishes.

But I want you to tell me: what is my personal incentive to insist on something that contradicts a parent's will?

Why on earth would I try to force biology on Manchild's kid or John Doe's child—using those specific names Manchild mentioned—or push Faulkner, when at the end of the day, the parent is the customer, and we all know the old adage that the customer is always right?

I clearly see how it benefits society and the community for children to read, to become literate, and to grow more educated. But as for my own personal gain, kill me now, because I simply don't see any.

And if society has such an interest, then society should have the mechanisms in place to make it happen. Instead, society ties my hands behind my back and then expects me to act like it's my personal mission to ensure kids read, even though I have no way to fight for it.

How did we actually get here? I mean, when exactly did the needle shift so that parents—rather than the students themselves or their teachers—became the primary drivers of the entire educational experience? It feels like we’ve drifted into this weird era where the classroom is just a backdrop for parental involvement, and honestly, I can't quite wrap my head around the turning point. 🙄

Look, I’ve got it pretty easy since I teach at the university level, so I rarely have to deal with parents breathing down my neck. But looking back at when I was actually in school? Things were totally different. Back then, parents usually only showed up on campus if they wanted to hear a teacher or a counselor give them the rundown on how their kid was doing—you know, specifically regarding whether they were actually hitting their academic milestones or behaving themselves.

Honestly, this whole trend of parents trying to dictate exactly what teachers should or shouldn't be teaching their kids feels fundamentally broken to me. It’s just wrong. To me, it feels exactly like if I took my car into a mechanic in Chicago, and then spent the entire appointment trying to lecture them on which parts actually need replacing and which don't—despite the fact that I don't know the first thing about internal combustion engines. If you're paying a professional for their expertise, you should probably let them do the job they were trained to do.

Look, Persephone, don't take this as a jab at you. I really don't. Honestly, I totally get why you're so frustrated right now.

I’ve noticed from my own experience that student motivation isn't just about the syllabus—it’s heavily tied to how much enthusiasm I actually bring to the lecture hall. If I’m genuinely excited about the material, they tend to catch that spark. If I'm just going through the motions? Well, they pick up on that immediately too.

I’ll admit, I was one of those students who actually finished every single book on the required reading list, even the ones we never touched in class. I was a total bookworm back then, though it wasn't until my mid-twenties that I finally gave myself permission to just put a book down if it isn't hitting the mark.
Regarding school curriculum, I think it would be a much better practice to provide some sort of guidance *before* diving into the text. Why does this matter? Why is it considered a classic? How are we actually supposed to approach it?
We are lightyears away from the era in which these books were originally written. Neither our generation nor the one following us can truly grasp the material if someone just dictates a textbook definition of "weltschmerz" during one period, and then expects us to read Werther during the next. Honestly, it’s pointless to sit there reading about how that pathetic guy mopes over Lott and her ribbons if no one has shown you how to interpret the subtext.
My professor and I used to have these debates about why a guy like Werther wouldn't even be considered attractive by today's standards, or how we would have shut him down if we were in Lotta's shoes.
I never found any practical use for the plots themselves; the real value was simply in developing critical thinking, learning how to build an argument, and practicing empathy by seeing things from someone else's perspective.

Zachary Bailey3 said:I’m pretty sure the subject is actually called American Language!🤔😁
People seriously need to learn how to write properly in it!🙂
Can even the eighth graders write a decent sentence, or is it just all talk?😠
And besides, what do you actually get out of reading those required books?
If someone genuinely loves reading, they'll pick up a book on their own, but there's absolutely no point in forcing it on them!☕

You wouldn't believe it, but I’ve come to realize that actually learning how to write in a language can happen just by reading, too. It’s one of those things people tend to overcomplicate, insisting on drills and tedious grammar exercises when, honestly, you can just soak up the rhythm of the prose if you spend enough time with it. 😲 It’s honestly a whole lot easier and far less painful than just trying to cram a bunch of rules into your head through rote memorization, which is really the whole point of reading literature in the first place, I suppose.

ambereagle88 said:I’ll admit, I was one of those students who actually finished every single book on the required reading list, even the ones we never touched in class. I was a total bookworm back then, though it wasn't until my mid-twenties that I finally gave myself permission to just put a book down if it isn't hitting the mark.
Regarding school curriculum, I think it would be a much better practice to provide some sort of guidance *before* diving into the text. Why does this matter? Why is it considered a classic? How are we actually supposed to approach it?
We are lightyears away from the era in which these books were originally written. Neither our generation nor the one following us can truly grasp the material if someone just dictates a textbook definition of "weltschmerz" during one period, and then expects us to read Werther during the next. Honestly, it’s pointless to sit there reading about how that pathetic guy mopes over Lott and her ribbons if no one has shown you how to interpret the subtext.
My professor and I used to have these debates about why a guy like Werther wouldn't even be considered attractive by today's standards, or how we would have shut him down if we were in Lotta's shoes.
I never found any practical use for the plots themselves; the real value was simply in developing critical thinking, learning how to build an argument, and practicing empathy by seeing things from someone else's perspective.

👍
Yeah, you really need to know something about the work before you dive in—the context behind it, the spirit of the era... and honestly, discussing literature in a way that connects to the modern world, making it relatable to us or to kids today, is essential.

The way things were taught to me, all my required reading felt completely hollow and unreachable. And that's saying something, because I was always a top student and a genuinely voracious reader.

ambereagle88 said:I’ll admit, I was one of those students who actually finished every single book on the required reading list, even the ones we never touched in class. I was a total bookworm back then, though it wasn't until my mid-twenties that I finally gave myself permission to just put a book down if it isn't hitting the mark.
Regarding school curriculum, I think it would be a much better practice to provide some sort of guidance *before* diving into the text. Why does this matter? Why is it considered a classic? How are we actually supposed to approach it?
We are lightyears away from the era in which these books were originally written. Neither our generation nor the one following us can truly grasp the material if someone just dictates a textbook definition of "weltschmerz" during one period, and then expects us to read Werther during the next. Honestly, it’s pointless to sit there reading about how that pathetic guy mopes over Lott and her ribbons if no one has shown you how to interpret the subtext.
My professor and I used to have these debates about why a guy like Werther wouldn't even be considered attractive by today's standards, or how we would have shut him down if we were in Lotta's shoes.
I never found any practical use for the plots themselves; the real value was simply in developing critical thinking, learning how to build an argument, and practicing empathy by seeing things from someone else's perspective.

Perfectly stated. 👍

I was just sitting here wondering how my sixteen-year-old daughter would react if some guy like Werther started chasing her... 🤔 Honestly, after that encounter, he wouldn't even have the energy left to bother with himself, let alone try to win her heart.

In short, what is the actual harm in adapting required reading to fit our current reality and modern times? Especially when you're younger. Once you've finally sorted out the chaos of your own youth and those awkward teenage years, you can go ahead and read the classics for pleasure—finding the challenge in engaging with the original Judith or the original Romeo and Juliet... without being forced to do it.

Just as a parallel: Citizen Kane is hailed as the absolute pinnacle, the greatest film ever made. How many years does it take to finally understand (if you ever do) the fact that movies like Transformers, Spider-Man, or Harry Potter are just cinematic fluff compared to Kane?

And here is another real-world example for you:

Imagine you're a student at a high-pressure prep school like Phillips Exeter, where you're already doing eight hours of math and five hours of physics a week—subjects you actually chose because you love them—but due to staffing shortages, you're suddenly stuck in a philosophy class. You're being lectured on Zeno's paradoxes and ancient Greek epistemological canons like: "the arrow is actually stationary in a series of points" or Achilles will never overtake the tortoise... 😵🤣

Well, to hell with those old canons...

ambereagle88 said:I’ll admit, I was one of those students who actually finished every single book on the required reading list, even the ones we never touched in class. I was a total bookworm back then, though it wasn't until my mid-twenties that I finally gave myself permission to just put a book down if it isn't hitting the mark.
Regarding school curriculum, I think it would be a much better practice to provide some sort of guidance *before* diving into the text. Why does this matter? Why is it considered a classic? How are we actually supposed to approach it?
We are lightyears away from the era in which these books were originally written. Neither our generation nor the one following us can truly grasp the material if someone just dictates a textbook definition of "weltschmerz" during one period, and then expects us to read Werther during the next. Honestly, it’s pointless to sit there reading about how that pathetic guy mopes over Lott and her ribbons if no one has shown you how to interpret the subtext.
My professor and I used to have these debates about why a guy like Werther wouldn't even be considered attractive by today's standards, or how we would have shut him down if we were in Lotta's shoes.
I never found any practical use for the plots themselves; the real value was simply in developing critical thinking, learning how to build an argument, and practicing empathy by seeing things from someone else's perspective.

solid idea

I found The Sorrows of Young Werther to be a bit of a slog, though I’d still call it an excellent book; honestly, maybe its brilliance lies in that very boredom, since I actually found myself getting lost in every lyrical passage and the raw depiction of Werther's emotions. It was slow going, sure, but Goethe really was a master when it came to painting those scenes of nature and internal turmoil.

That’s why I’d love to see it stay on reading lists, even if it did shake up an entire generation of young people so deeply that it triggered a wave of mass suicides.😁

Chloe Roberts2 said:I found The Sorrows of Young Werther to be a bit of a slog, though I’d still call it an excellent book; honestly, maybe its brilliance lies in that very boredom, since I actually found myself getting lost in every lyrical passage and the raw depiction of Werther's emotions. It was slow going, sure, but Goethe really was a master when it came to painting those scenes of nature and internal turmoil.

That’s why I’d love to see it stay on reading lists, even if it did shake up an entire generation of young people so deeply that it triggered a wave of mass suicides.😁

Plus, that book is literally where we get the whole expression "I feel blue."

Quincy:

I don't really have much to say about this. I guess it's just one of those things, maybe. kaže: Spot on. 👍 I guess I'm just wondering how my sixteen-year-old daughter would actually react if some guy like Werther started chasing after her. 🤔 After all that, he probably wouldn't even have the energy to end it all, let alone find a way into her heart. I don't really see the issue with updating literature to fit modern times, especially when you're young. Once you finally get your head straight after those messy teenage years, you can just go back and read the classics on your own terms. There's no need to force it—just dive into the original Judith or Romeo and Juliet whenever you feel like tackling the challenge. Just as a parallel: Kane Some people call it the absolute peak—the greatest movie ever made. I guess you have to reach a certain age to finally get it, if you ever do. It’s just realizing that things like Transformers, Spiderman, and Harry Potter are nothing more than cinematic junk compared to Kane. Here's another case study from someone who's actually been through it: Imagine being a student at MIT, but even though you’re pulling eight hours of math and five hours of physics a week—subjects you actually picked because you enjoy them—you still end up stuck in a philosophy class due to some scheduling mess at the school. Now you've got a professor lecturing you on Zeno's paradoxes and those old Greek theories of knowledge, like: I guess the arrow is actually just sitting still within a sequence of points. Maybe. Or. Achilles is never going to outpace a turtle, I guess. 😵🤣 Well, damn it all to hell...

I don't really get this latest point. I know plenty of people who take pride in not being narrow-minded idiots—people who actually enjoy both coding and philosophy. In my experience, the truly intelligent people I know tend to have a wide range of interests, and any system that tries to box them in just isn't built for them.

You really dodged that question regarding the Persephone post quite skillfully. Since you wouldn't give me a straight answer, I'll ask it myself: if you think it’s fine for kids to read the Prince's diaries just because they want to, would you also be okay with them being forced to listen to Mozart in music class? I mean, nobody listens to Mozart anymore—it's boring. Why not let them listen to Ian Jurčević instead? I guess I wonder if forcing all that outdated, uninteresting stuff on them just ends up making them hate music altogether.

You keep bringing up Judith and the original Romeo and Juliet, but that’s not what your kid was actually assigned. She was given a tiny little story specifically tailored for her age group, and when she didn't care for it, you basically told her it was fine to skip out. This has nothing to do with whether freshmen are mature enough for Judith. Your daughter is plenty capable of handling the White Stag, yet you let her dictate how she should be raised and taught—to both you and her teacher. I guess it’s just a shame.

I don't know—I remember reading The Sorrows of Young Hamlet, and honestly, I hated every single page. I ended up writing this massive, exhaustive report detailing everything I loathed about that book, basically arguing why it was total garbage that should be burned and erased from the collective memory of the human race. I actually walked away with an A grade for it. I took the exact same approach when I tore apart Emma Bovary. These days, I’d go as far as to say I’ve mastered the art of being able to articulately trash things I dislike—and frankly, that has been an incredibly useful life skill for me more times than I can count. Required reading often feels outdated, and I think plenty of classic texts ought to be updated, but I also believe kids should occasionally be forced to tackle assignments they find miserable. They should be encouraged to speak up and provide a reasoned, well-argued defense of why a particular task just didn't work for them.

Persephone makes a great point. People who love to read will always find something to sink their teeth into—no school reading list is ever going to make them "hate" books...

I’ve been obsessed with reading since I was tiny; the librarians at my local branch used to treat me like one of their own. 🤣 And don't get me wrong, I always did my required school reading. In fact, those assignments based on the syllabus were actually some of my favorites—even when I absolutely detested the book itself! After all, explaining why a story didn't click with you shouldn't be an impossible task.

To be honest, I almost feel bad for my old teachers when I think back on those assignments... I would always write pages upon pages of analysis, but my handwriting was just a total disaster. 🤣

I wouldn't stand for a kid telling me, dead serious, that they didn't read something just because it was "boring"—and frankly, I don't think any parent should either. Sometimes, picking up something that isn't exactly your cup of tea is just part of growing up.

brightheron64 said:Why should a specific book, especially one hand-picked by someone else, ever be treated as a mandatory chore?
Goodness, I’m practically halfway through a career at Chase Bank and I still haven't tackled Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, or Proust... though I suppose I'm not quite old enough for those heavyweights yet, even if I have burned through mountains of other books...

The whole point of reading is the comprehension, the deep thinking, the actual connection to how someone expresses themselves... but that kind of magic only happens when you're driven by genuine curiosity or a fascination with the subject, not because it was slapped on a required reading list...

So, I'm completely on board with the idea that kids need to read, but please, just give them options—give them a choice ranging from Gilgamesh to Harry Potter, or from Aesop's fables to Dr. Seuss... and then, instead of lecturing them about what they *should* have read, try actually talking to them about the stories they actually chose for themselves...

She won't be picking jobs; she'll just go work for Google. 😉

You're missing out big time, especially when it comes to Dostoevsky. You should really consider borrowing Crime and Punishment from the library sometime.

I've actually read Crime and Punishment in both Spanish and English... my only real regret is that I don't know Russian, so I could finally experience it in its original language.

Honestly, I’m losing it over Larry Walker24 claiming his required reading didn't do squat for him during his biotech degree. Like, what a complete waste of tuition. If you can't see that literature isn't about passing a lab exam—it's about actually understanding how the hell the world works—then you're beyond help. It's the same nonsense you hear from parents whining that books are useless, while their little golden children can't even articulate *why* they think something sucks. These kids have zero media literacy; they can't critically analyze anything thrown at them, let alone grasp basic cause and effect. They end up voting for the Republican Party blindly, then pack their bags for Ireland because everything in this country is a total mess, etc., etc. But sure, let's pretend that learning how to think critically about a text is some totally useless skill that has nothing to do with navigating life. Apparently, being able to process information is just dead weight in the real world.

I see my favorite book, Youthful suffering, being mentioned 😵
It’s honestly the absolute worst thing I’ve ever read in my entire life—and that’s saying something, because I read a massive amount of books; my shelves at home are practically overflowing
But about a year ago, it was actually outdone by The Cabin. I guess you never know who’s reading whom—whether I'm consuming the book or the book is consuming me

What I mean is, required reading isn't always "fun." To me, it's just something you're supposed to read to have a basic level of "general culture"—if there's even a better way to put it—just so you can hold a conversation about it. That's why I pushed through The Cabin until the very end; everyone keeps raving about it like it's the greatest masterpiece ever written, so I figured I'd see what the fuss was about. Personally? It was terrible...

I used to be one of those students who actually finished every single assigned book, from the Odyssey to Krleža, and I don't regret it one bit
At this rate, most high schoolers will probably know more about the Kardashian sisters than they will about Chekhov

Maria Gray3 said:Quincy:

I don't really have much to say about this. I guess it's just one of those things, maybe. kaže: Spot on. 👍 I guess I'm just wondering how my sixteen-year-old daughter would actually react if some guy like Werther started chasing after her. 🤔 After all that, he probably wouldn't even have the energy to end it all, let alone find a way into her heart. I don't really see the issue with updating literature to fit modern times, especially when you're young. Once you finally get your head straight after those messy teenage years, you can just go back and read the classics on your own terms. There's no need to force it—just dive into the original Judith or Romeo and Juliet whenever you feel like tackling the challenge. Just as a parallel: Kane Some people call it the absolute peak—the greatest movie ever made. I guess you have to reach a certain age to finally get it, if you ever do. It’s just realizing that things like Transformers, Spiderman, and Harry Potter are nothing more than cinematic junk compared to Kane. Here's another case study from someone who's actually been through it: Imagine being a student at MIT, but even though you’re pulling eight hours of math and five hours of physics a week—subjects you actually picked because you enjoy them—you still end up stuck in a philosophy class due to some scheduling mess at the school. Now you've got a professor lecturing you on Zeno's paradoxes and those old Greek theories of knowledge, like: I guess the arrow is actually just sitting still within a sequence of points. Maybe. Or. Achilles is never going to outpace a turtle, I guess. 😵🤣 Well, damn it all to hell...

I don't really get this latest point. I know plenty of people who take pride in not being narrow-minded idiots—people who actually enjoy both coding and philosophy. In my experience, the truly intelligent people I know tend to have a wide range of interests, and any system that tries to box them in just isn't built for them.

You really dodged that question regarding the Persephone post quite skillfully. Since you wouldn't give me a straight answer, I'll ask it myself: if you think it’s fine for kids to read the Prince's diaries just because they want to, would you also be okay with them being forced to listen to Mozart in music class? I mean, nobody listens to Mozart anymore—it's boring. Why not let them listen to Ian Jurčević instead? I guess I wonder if forcing all that outdated, uninteresting stuff on them just ends up making them hate music altogether.

You keep bringing up Judith and the original Romeo and Juliet, but that’s not what your kid was actually assigned. She was given a tiny little story specifically tailored for her age group, and when she didn't care for it, you basically told her it was fine to skip out. This has nothing to do with whether freshmen are mature enough for Judith. Your daughter is plenty capable of handling the White Stag, yet you let her dictate how she should be raised and taught—to both you and her teacher. I guess it’s just a shame.

Let me clarify things here, because the real issue is that we’re dealing with an absolute idiot of a philosophy professor who refuses to step outside the narrow confines of his own field... he makes zero effort to grasp fundamental concepts like limits or delta t—concepts that his students have to wrestle with on a daily basis, and which are exactly what's needed right now to demystify these little logical dead ends...

By the way, shall we take another look at that whole saga regarding those absolute idiots...
Is it just me, or does it feel like I’m teaching the exact same lesson to every single new group of students, year after year, from my very first day on the job all the way until I finally hit retirement...

Maria Gray3 said:Quincy:

I don't really have much to say about this. I guess it's just one of those things, maybe. kaže: Spot on. 👍 I guess I'm just wondering how my sixteen-year-old daughter would actually react if some guy like Werther started chasing after her. 🤔 After all that, he probably wouldn't even have the energy to end it all, let alone find a way into her heart. I don't really see the issue with updating literature to fit modern times, especially when you're young. Once you finally get your head straight after those messy teenage years, you can just go back and read the classics on your own terms. There's no need to force it—just dive into the original Judith or Romeo and Juliet whenever you feel like tackling the challenge. Just as a parallel: Kane Some people call it the absolute peak—the greatest movie ever made. I guess you have to reach a certain age to finally get it, if you ever do. It’s just realizing that things like Transformers, Spiderman, and Harry Potter are nothing more than cinematic junk compared to Kane. Here's another case study from someone who's actually been through it: Imagine being a student at MIT, but even though you’re pulling eight hours of math and five hours of physics a week—subjects you actually picked because you enjoy them—you still end up stuck in a philosophy class due to some scheduling mess at the school. Now you've got a professor lecturing you on Zeno's paradoxes and those old Greek theories of knowledge, like: I guess the arrow is actually just sitting still within a sequence of points. Maybe. Or. Achilles is never going to outpace a turtle, I guess. 😵🤣 Well, damn it all to hell...

I don't really get this latest point. I know plenty of people who take pride in not being narrow-minded idiots—people who actually enjoy both coding and philosophy. In my experience, the truly intelligent people I know tend to have a wide range of interests, and any system that tries to box them in just isn't built for them.

You really dodged that question regarding the Persephone post quite skillfully. Since you wouldn't give me a straight answer, I'll ask it myself: if you think it’s fine for kids to read the Prince's diaries just because they want to, would you also be okay with them being forced to listen to Mozart in music class? I mean, nobody listens to Mozart anymore—it's boring. Why not let them listen to Ian Jurčević instead? I guess I wonder if forcing all that outdated, uninteresting stuff on them just ends up making them hate music altogether.

You keep bringing up Judith and the original Romeo and Juliet, but that’s not what your kid was actually assigned. She was given a tiny little story specifically tailored for her age group, and when she didn't care for it, you basically told her it was fine to skip out. This has nothing to do with whether freshmen are mature enough for Judith. Your daughter is plenty capable of handling the White Stag, yet you let her dictate how she should be raised and taught—to both you and her teacher. I guess it’s just a shame.

Please, don't trivialize such a profound story with that kind of nonsense...

Maria Gray3 said:Quincy:

I don't really have much to say about this. I guess it's just one of those things, maybe. kaže: Spot on. 👍 I guess I'm just wondering how my sixteen-year-old daughter would actually react if some guy like Werther started chasing after her. 🤔 After all that, he probably wouldn't even have the energy to end it all, let alone find a way into her heart. I don't really see the issue with updating literature to fit modern times, especially when you're young. Once you finally get your head straight after those messy teenage years, you can just go back and read the classics on your own terms. There's no need to force it—just dive into the original Judith or Romeo and Juliet whenever you feel like tackling the challenge. Just as a parallel: Kane Some people call it the absolute peak—the greatest movie ever made. I guess you have to reach a certain age to finally get it, if you ever do. It’s just realizing that things like Transformers, Spiderman, and Harry Potter are nothing more than cinematic junk compared to Kane. Here's another case study from someone who's actually been through it: Imagine being a student at MIT, but even though you’re pulling eight hours of math and five hours of physics a week—subjects you actually picked because you enjoy them—you still end up stuck in a philosophy class due to some scheduling mess at the school. Now you've got a professor lecturing you on Zeno's paradoxes and those old Greek theories of knowledge, like: I guess the arrow is actually just sitting still within a sequence of points. Maybe. Or. Achilles is never going to outpace a turtle, I guess. 😵🤣 Well, damn it all to hell...

I don't really get this latest point. I know plenty of people who take pride in not being narrow-minded idiots—people who actually enjoy both coding and philosophy. In my experience, the truly intelligent people I know tend to have a wide range of interests, and any system that tries to box them in just isn't built for them.

You really dodged that question regarding the Persephone post quite skillfully. Since you wouldn't give me a straight answer, I'll ask it myself: if you think it’s fine for kids to read the Prince's diaries just because they want to, would you also be okay with them being forced to listen to Mozart in music class? I mean, nobody listens to Mozart anymore—it's boring. Why not let them listen to Ian Jurčević instead? I guess I wonder if forcing all that outdated, uninteresting stuff on them just ends up making them hate music altogether.

You keep bringing up Judith and the original Romeo and Juliet, but that’s not what your kid was actually assigned. She was given a tiny little story specifically tailored for her age group, and when she didn't care for it, you basically told her it was fine to skip out. This has nothing to do with whether freshmen are mature enough for Judith. Your daughter is plenty capable of handling the White Stag, yet you let her dictate how she should be raised and taught—to both you and her teacher. I guess it’s just a shame.

Since I have a few kids of my own running around, I feel like I’ve earned the right to speak up about the school reading list—not only am I intimately familiar with the classics we all had to suffer through, but I also noticed that remarkably few of the titles have actually changed since I was sitting in those desks myself...

So, you're asking me to explain why they all vanished... if you really want me to dive into that whole mystery, I suppose I could try, though it’s a bit of a rabbit hole to fall down... Loda's courier It seems like you might have hit send a little too early, but I am sitting here ready and waiting to help you transform your content... whenever you are ready to share the text, just let me know... Divine dust...Are they just not classic enough? It feels like they’re bordering on being too banal...

Take a look at this... Divine dust... It really stands as one of the most accomplished pieces of prose in all of American literature... Source: Miroslav Krleža Lexicographical Institute

So, if that’s how it works, why on earth shouldn't I be allowed to give my own child the freedom to choose for themselves...

Man, you really went there.

wiredfalcon2 said:Honestly, I’m losing it over Larry Walker24 claiming his required reading didn't do squat for him during his biotech degree. Like, what a complete waste of tuition. If you can't see that literature isn't about passing a lab exam—it's about actually understanding how the hell the world works—then you're beyond help. It's the same nonsense you hear from parents whining that books are useless, while their little golden children can't even articulate *why* they think something sucks. These kids have zero media literacy; they can't critically analyze anything thrown at them, let alone grasp basic cause and effect. They end up voting for the Republican Party blindly, then pack their bags for Ireland because everything in this country is a total mess, etc., etc. But sure, let's pretend that learning how to think critically about a text is some totally useless skill that has nothing to do with navigating life. Apparently, being able to process information is just dead weight in the real world.

Did Judith or some death metal song help anyone actually grasp reality? 🤦🤦

What does media literacy have to do with reading a book?

Moving abroad is your own choice, it's got nothing to do with what you read in class.

brightheron64 said:Let me clarify things here, because the real issue is that we’re dealing with an absolute idiot of a philosophy professor who refuses to step outside the narrow confines of his own field... he makes zero effort to grasp fundamental concepts like limits or delta t—concepts that his students have to wrestle with on a daily basis, and which are exactly what's needed right now to demystify these little logical dead ends...

By the way, shall we take another look at that whole saga regarding those absolute idiots...
Is it just me, or does it feel like I’m teaching the exact same lesson to every single new group of students, year after year, from my very first day on the job all the way until I finally hit retirement...

Please, don't trivialize such a profound story with that kind of nonsense...

Since I have a few kids of my own running around, I feel like I’ve earned the right to speak up about the school reading list—not only am I intimately familiar with the classics we all had to suffer through, but I also noticed that remarkably few of the titles have actually changed since I was sitting in those desks myself...

So, you're asking me to explain why they all vanished... if you really want me to dive into that whole mystery, I suppose I could try, though it’s a bit of a rabbit hole to fall down... Loda's courier It seems like you might have hit send a little too early, but I am sitting here ready and waiting to help you transform your content... whenever you are ready to share the text, just let me know... Divine dust...Are they just not classic enough? It feels like they’re bordering on being too banal...

Take a look at this... Divine dust... It really stands as one of the most accomplished pieces of prose in all of American literature... Source: Miroslav Krleža Lexicographical Institute

So, if that’s how it works, why on earth shouldn't I be allowed to give my own child the freedom to choose for themselves...

Honestly, I'm at a loss for words here...

Pythagoras has been dead for ages, yet mathematicians still can't seem to move past $a^2 + b^2 = c^2$.

Linguists are stuck clinging to the same accusative cases used by the ancient Latin speakers, teaching kids how to compare adjectives without ever actually making them think about the mechanics behind it. Even literature professors have been mindlessly repeating since the 13th century that Dante's Divine Comedy consists of 100 cantos, but I wonder if anyone has ever stopped to truly question that.

Chemists haven't found a more accurate periodic table than Mendeleev's, and look where that's left modern chemistry. Physicists are still trumpeting the name of Newton in an era defined by digital technology.

Geographers just parrot the same facts like machines, insisting the Himalayas are the highest mountain range and the Mariana Trench is the deepest point.

It’s honestly tragic...

🤦

People like you really deserve homeschooling—or at the very least, some decent private education.

I guess there isn't much to say here. Maybe just silence. Maria Gray3 says:
Let me put it this way: the problem here is that you've got this philosophy professor who’s such an idiot he refuses to step outside his own little bubble. He won't even try to wrap his head around concepts like limits or delta t—stuff his students deal with every single day and things that actually demystify those philosophical dead ends.

By the way, maybe we should revisit that whole thing about the total idiots.
Is it just me, or does it feel like I’m just repeating the exact same lecture to every new group of students, from my very first day on the job all the way until I finally retire?

So what, he's an idiot just because he's teaching kids about the history of philosophical thought? I guess maybe you aren't interested in the logic and reasoning that led to Achilles and the tortoise, or any of those other philosophical concepts and ideas that eventually fell out of favor. Why give kids nothing but final, correct answers to memorize? It seems like it might be more fun, or even more stimulating, to teach them how to actually think—so they can figure out for themselves why Achilles eventually catches the tortoise.

Especially when we're talking about elementary school reading lists. You have no clue what your kid will actually do for a living one day, so I guess it’s a bit misplaced to push them for straight A's in English while you're sweating over a mediocre grade in American literature. They're only in third grade. Not to mention, a third grader barely knows enough to pull a grade higher than a failing one anyway. At the end of the day, being able to navigate life is a skill they'll probably need even if they end up working in Ireland.

I'm also not sure if you actually know what a specialist is. As I see it, a specialist is someone who only knows one narrow thing and can't connect it to anything else. So, I guess a philosophy professor wouldn't necessarily be a specialist if they can link their work to other fields and actually stay curious about things outside of their own bubble.

Maybe take a quick stroll over to the natural science subforum and see what the heavy hitters are up to. It’s rare to find anyone there who actually gives a damn about other subjects; honestly, I guess it’s almost a chore for them to even read anything that isn't strictly natural science. You should check out that thread about whether the moon still exists when nobody is looking. There’s a whole lot of "deep" philosophical nonsense written on it.

I haven't seen much from that user lately. I guess they just moved on. Maria Gray3 says:
Please don't trivialize the whole thing with that kind of nonsense.

Here we go again. This is exactly why kids need to read the classics—so they actually have the tools to explain why they think something is nonsense. You haven't really shown any capacity for that in this debate, so I guess you might be depriving your kid of that chance. Maybe it would be better for their development if you just told them, "Look, I don't expect straight A's, so you don't necessarily need an A in literature, but I do think you should read the story and be able to articulate why you didn't like it." That way, they might learn how to take responsibility even when they aren't feeling it, realize they have a right to an opinion, and figure out how to turn that opinion into a coherent argument they can actually stand behind.

I honestly don't get why calling the comparison "nonsense" is an issue. It’s actually a pretty solid point. Are we talking about boring, outdated required reading that nobody actually wants to touch? Or maybe old, dusty music that nobody listens to anymore? I guess you could ask how many people actually learned anything from Judith? Probably just as many as those who learned from Carmen. Why should we leave the choice of classic literature up to a bunch of average kids and their average parents? If someone can choose to skip the old stuff and listen to Beyoncé instead, why shouldn't they do the same with books?

brightheron64 said:Let me clarify things here, because the real issue is that we’re dealing with an absolute idiot of a philosophy professor who refuses to step outside the narrow confines of his own field... he makes zero effort to grasp fundamental concepts like limits or delta t—concepts that his students have to wrestle with on a daily basis, and which are exactly what's needed right now to demystify these little logical dead ends...

By the way, shall we take another look at that whole saga regarding those absolute idiots...
Is it just me, or does it feel like I’m teaching the exact same lesson to every single new group of students, year after year, from my very first day on the job all the way until I finally hit retirement...

Please, don't trivialize such a profound story with that kind of nonsense...

Since I have a few kids of my own running around, I feel like I’ve earned the right to speak up about the school reading list—not only am I intimately familiar with the classics we all had to suffer through, but I also noticed that remarkably few of the titles have actually changed since I was sitting in those desks myself...

So, you're asking me to explain why they all vanished... if you really want me to dive into that whole mystery, I suppose I could try, though it’s a bit of a rabbit hole to fall down... Loda's courier It seems like you might have hit send a little too early, but I am sitting here ready and waiting to help you transform your content... whenever you are ready to share the text, just let me know... Divine dust...Are they just not classic enough? It feels like they’re bordering on being too banal...

Take a look at this... Divine dust... It really stands as one of the most accomplished pieces of prose in all of American literature... Source: Miroslav Krleža Lexicographical Institute

So, if that’s how it works, why on earth shouldn't I be allowed to give my own child the freedom to choose for themselves...

Look, I honestly have no clue which books "deserve" to be on a syllabus and which don't; I'm certainly not an expert qualified to make that call. It's the same with math—I haven't the slightest idea when a kid should start learning fractions, whether they're being taught too early or too late. I assume some experts in their field handled that and decided what goes into the curriculum based on their professional knowledge. You can always recommend *A Farewell to Arms* to your kid if you think it would be enriching, just like you can give them extra math problems if you think they've mastered fractions better than the rest of the class. But the idea that a child shouldn't have to read the assigned book, or shouldn't have to learn fractions because they aren't "in the mood"—or because you're certain your daughter will end up in a STEM field or becoming an English professor—is just a silly way to deprive a kid of an education.