What's the point of required reading?

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Michelle Nelson4 said:Who actually grows up reading? It’s usually someone whose parents actively steered them toward books. But what about kids who don't have that guidance at home? I can't help but worry about how many children have parents who just don't read, or never bother signing them up for a library card because they simply don't see the value in it. It honestly scares me a little... And then there's the attitude within our American school system, which seems to be more of a "do whatever" approach. It feels like if a student wants to read, they'll find something on their own regardless of those incredibly dry, incomprehensible classics we're forced to assign, but if they don't, as long as they finish the required reading list, the job is considered done. It's all a bit of a mess, really.

The rest is just minor details, depending on whether you happen to catch a teacher on a good day or a bad one...

Yeah.
And yet, in the end, people still blame the required reading lists and the public school system when someone doesn't pick up a book. ☕
If you just start reading to kids from the earliest possible age, they probably won't grow up hating the classics—that’s basically the whole point of it all. 😉

urbantinker8 said:unknown

Yeah.
And yet, in the end, people still blame the required reading lists and the public school system when someone doesn't pick up a book. ☕
If you just start reading to kids from the earliest possible age, they probably won't grow up hating the classics—that’s basically the whole point of it all. 😉

So, I suppose it all boils down to what kind of environment your parents created for you...

Susan James said:But teachers do read to kids... most schools have libraries, and classes often go on field trips to the public library, so it isn't entirely on the parents to handle everything

And from what I can gather from this discussion, the main issue with required reading isn't usually the books themselves, but rather how some teachers choose to teach them in class.

...or just how much luck you had with your specific teacher.

And then we end up looking like we're lagging behind developing nations when you look at the correlation between parental education levels and a child's academic success. It brings a whole host of other issues along with it, too...

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urbantinker8 said:unknown

Yeah.
And yet, in the end, people still blame the required reading lists and the public school system when someone doesn't pick up a book. ☕
If you just start reading to kids from the earliest possible age, they probably won't grow up hating the classics—that’s basically the whole point of it all. 😉

Look, obviously having grandparents around who read, or maybe a grandma, a brother, or a sister—that definitely helps. It’s great. But you can't just leave everything up to them. That’s not how it works. Education exists specifically to provide that foundation and to actually spark a genuine desire to learn.

Does anyone know where I might find an old school reading list? It feels like high school hasn't changed all that much, but middle school looks totally different compared to when I was a kid.

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Christian Wilson28 said:No, I'm just saying—yeah, maybe I read more than the average person, but it’s hardly a miracle. And honestly, I wasn't some special outlier when it came to hating required reading; people hated those books whether they were avid readers or not.

Look, some titles are actually decent and should stay on the list. But others... good grief, they're practically a death sentence. Of course, people who don't normally read are going to want to read even less after being forced through stuff like that. Not everyone has to love everything, sure, but there are those few specific things that are just painful for everyone—those really ought to be cut.

Back in high school, we had the option to pick five books out of a list of twenty, which was okay, but even then—I would've wanted more choices. Like, fine, let's do Hemingway, but give me a few different works to choose from! Why on earth did we have to do that one guy, Philip? I would've had way more fun analyzing something like *The Catcher in the Rye*. Actually, I did—and I ended up getting three assignments done, but I was basically held up in front of the class as a "bad example," while my classmates were actually clapping for me. And the teacher? Well, they clearly lost their mind. 😬

I mean, you’re definitely making an exception here when you say you "grew up in a library."
Wait, I don't think that’s really what you meant when you said you hated reading the classics, though... maybe? I mean, I guess it didn't exactly come across that way!

So, I think I finally get what you guys are getting at! The whole main "issue" being tackled here—if I’m reading the room right—is that whole idea that kids just... stop wanting to read because of what they're forced to pick up for school. Like, because of those specific book choices, they just lose interest entirely. I guess that's the core of it, maybe?

I mean, if you ask me, it generally feels like... Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. It feels like such a non-issue to me, really! I mean, maybe I'm just missing something, but I just don't get why everyone is making such a fuss over nothing. It's probably fine!.
Look, let's be real—not everyone is going to vibe with every single book out there. It’s just impossible for everything to hit the same way for everyone, right? I mean, tastes are subjective, and that's just how it goes. But honestly? I can't say I've ever actually hated movies just because one of them turned out to be a total snooze fest. Maybe I just haven't found my perfect match yet, but I definitely don't hold a grudge against the whole genre just because one flick was boring!

Whether books could be chosen "better"—well, that’s a similar idea, just on a much bigger scale, I guess. It isn't impossible at all! It’s just that... I don't know, I haven't stumbled upon any solid arguments for it yet. Not that they don't exist, obviously! I just haven't run into them. Maybe they're out there somewhere? Who knows!
I mean, figuring out what we actually get out of reading lists and required books—and then how you're supposed to map all that out through the school years—is honestly kind of a big deal. It’s not exactly a simple task, I guess!

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Look, I mean, some of these headlines are actually pretty decent and honestly should just stay exactly as they are. But others? Good grief, they're just straight-up lethal. Like, seriously. And of course, the people who don't normally bother reading the news are just going to be even less likely to pick anything up after seeing stuff like that. It's just... yeah.

I mean, let's be real... people who don't read? They aren't exactly going to pick up a book just because someone tells them to. It’s like, they just didn't before, and I guess they won't after either. Maybe it's just not their thing! 😁

I mean, you also get this huge group of people who don't usually pick up a book at all, but just because there's a required reading assignment, they actually end up reading something! It's kind of funny, I guess.

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Look, I know not everyone is going to agree with me on this, but there are just those few specific things that everyone finds absolutely exhausting. Honestly? I feel like those parts really should just be cut entirely.

Like... math? Or something along those lines? I guess? Maybe? 😁

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Hey there! I was just sitting here thinking about how much fun it is to dive into these discussions. Honestly, I feel like we could talk about this stuff for hours, right? I guess I’m just a little excited to get things moving! Maybe we can all share some thoughts soon. I'm really looking forward to seeing what everyone thinks! I guess someone said: Oh man, honestly? We should probably just start catering to the people who only bother reading the ingredients on a bottle of Dove while they're sitting on the toilet. I mean, that’s clearly where all the decision-making power lies! And hey, if that's the standard, then I guess it makes sense why something like *The Great Gatsby* ended up on the required reading list—a book I swear I can't even wrap my head around today without a mountain of footnotes and translations to explain what's actually happening. At this rate, I might as well just try reading French theater in its original language instead. It would probably be just as productive, right? 😁

Just to clear one thing up—when I say I’m trying to "level the playing field" for you two, I really just mean I'm trying to get us all on the same page regarding who actually stopped reading and who didn't!

I mean, I guess it's not even strictly about how the software itself levels things out—like, regardless of what kind of program you're actually running.

As for the program, I guess it's... maybe? I mean, I really think it might be! All good! I mean, I guess it would be pretty great if we could level things out just a little bit—or, you know, as much as is actually possible! It feels like it should probably go toward the people who are really putting in the work, the ones who are super engaged, or maybe even the most interested, talented, or successful folks out there. Just a thought!

Linda Price5 said:The real issue arises when you consider that we wouldn't have lost a single second if we had spent that time instead doing something actually productive—like working some mindless side gig for seven bucks an hour while listening to podcasts or hearing Stephen Fry read Harry Potter.

If our guiding principle isn't essentially, "Are the students actually gaining more from this than they would by mindlessly churning out cheap busywork for pennies an hour while listening to a podcast," then we clearly aren't using that as our metric. And we all know, deep down, that it isn't. 😁And just like that, we’re staring down a massive problem. A truly significant one.

We're going to keep having it. 😁 A fish remains entirely unaware of the water surrounding it. It simply exists within that medium, oblivious to the very element that defines its entire reality.

I’m totally lost, what are we even talking about here?

unknown:

If our main metric isn't—and I mean for everything in the curriculum, not just the reading list—"are the students gaining more from this than they would from sewing buttons for seven dollars an hour while listening to a podcast," and since we know that definitely isn't our goal 😁, then we are in huge trouble. Like, really big trouble.

What do you mean by "gaining" or sewing buttons? What is this even referring to?

Are we saying we found some sort of potential benefit in the reading list that we're missing because of the syllabus? How?

-Steve

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Christian Wilson28 said:It’s honestly such a struggle trying to get people here to understand—we’re losing readers for a million different reasons. Mandatory school reading lists just make kids hate books entirely. Sure, we have e-books and some local titles available, but let's be real: the selection is thin and nobody is actually promoting it. You can't even borrow e-books from the public library yet, and if you want audiobooks, you're stuck with old CDs that require a disability certificate just to access them? I don't get it. Is this some copyright nonsense or just pure stupidity? It should be as easy as clicking a button, just like an e-book. Honestly, insisting on physical books in a digital age is a losing battle—and refusing to update those outdated school reading lists? Same thing.

Mind you, okay, they have introduced plenty of new and great resources in elementary schools lately—though unfortunately, they've added some idiocy in there too. But high school? It's pretty much the same mess it was back in my day.

https://www.loc.gov/

Summer, the census hasn't actually changed its core structure in 150 years; we just keep adding new layers to it. 😂

And as for that whole idea of "copying" book reports from the internet: honestly, that’s ancient history. 😁 You don't really "write" a book report anymore—at least not in a way where you can just scrape some text off a website and call it a day. 😉 I'm talking about high school level stuff here; I wouldn't know how things work down in middle school.

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hiddendriver34 said:Summer, the census hasn't actually changed its core structure in 150 years; we just keep adding new layers to it. 😂

And as for that whole idea of "copying" book reports from the internet: honestly, that’s ancient history. 😁 You don't really "write" a book report anymore—at least not in a way where you can just scrape some text off a website and call it a day. 😉 I'm talking about high school level stuff here; I wouldn't know how things work down in middle school.

So how are they actually supposed to do them then?

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Larry Walker24 said:unknown

So how are they actually supposed to do them then?

Back when I was in high school about 25 years ago—it feels like a lifetime, really—our literature tests were actually quite specific... we’d get questions like:
- what color was the sky in this particular scene?
- what exactly were the characters eating for lunch during that part of the story?

You could rewrite the whole book if you wanted to, but if you hadn't actually sat down and read it... well, you just wouldn't have known the answers to those little details...

hiddendriver34 said:rowdypanther12, the list hasn't actually changed in 150 years; it just gets updated periodically. 😂

Do you think the elementary school list is the same? 🤔
I know I found them terrible back then, but they don't seem that bad now.
To be fair, my mom read the entire Kusaan series to me before I even started school, so maybe that's why the books felt boring to me later on. 😂

feralmoose32 said:unknown

Back when I was in high school about 25 years ago—it feels like a lifetime, really—our literature tests were actually quite specific... we’d get questions like:
- what color was the sky in this particular scene?
- what exactly were the characters eating for lunch during that part of the story?

You could rewrite the whole book if you wanted to, but if you hadn't actually sat down and read it... well, you just wouldn't have known the answers to those little details...

Honestly, I'm not even sure I would have known the answers myself unless they were important, and if they were, I probably could've just looked them up online.😂

feralmoose32 said:unknown

Back when I was in high school about 25 years ago—it feels like a lifetime, really—our literature tests were actually quite specific... we’d get questions like:
- what color was the sky in this particular scene?
- what exactly were the characters eating for lunch during that part of the story?

You could rewrite the whole book if you wanted to, but if you hadn't actually sat down and read it... well, you just wouldn't have known the answers to those little details...

🙏🙏

It’s the same kind of stupid question—like, what color were the curtains in this scene?

Completely pointless.

Luckily, most of us in my high school back in the mid-90s didn't give a damn about the required reading. We’d just cram through the material a few hours before class, which almost never happened.

On my final exams, for English, I had:

Adjectives

V. Novak - The Last Stipančićs

Modernism

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rowdypanther12 said:Honestly, I'm not even sure I would have known the answers myself unless they were important, and if they were, I probably could've just looked them up online.😂

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Larry Walker24 said:🙏🙏

It’s the same kind of stupid question—like, what color were the curtains in this scene?

Completely pointless.

Luckily, most of us in my high school back in the mid-90s didn't give a damn about the required reading. We’d just cram through the material a few hours before class, which almost never happened.

On my final exams, for English, I had:

Adjectives

V. Novak - The Last Stipančićs

Modernism

We spent an entire lifetime dissecting just one single book—I mean, we were practically going through it scene by scene, taking two or three months just to get through a tiny portion... it was quite the marathon, really...

After spending a few hours soaking up the nuances of American English, you finally start to wrap your head around what someone is actually looking for—and then, once you’re paying attention, you end up typing out such absolute nonsense that you'll probably never live it down...

That scene involving the sky... that was actually from Romeo and Juliet...
I was just sitting here thinking about what they had for lunch—it was some kind of unknown... anyway, it's funny how those little things stick with you...
It seems that even after all this time, certain things just refuse to fade from my memory... 🤣

Honestly, because of how he approaches that massive mountain of required reading, none of us ever actually got to see any of it—not even me... and I’ll be the first to admit I'm a reader, but even I couldn't bring myself to tackle certain books, so I can only imagine what everyone else went through... 😁

Larry Walker24 said:unknown

So how are they actually supposed to do them then?

If it's a take-home assignment, students get a specific prompt—like an essay assigned by the teacher, reenacting certain scenes, writing a synopsis, or drafting letters and stuff like that.

In class, they have to answer orally through things like deep-dive analyses or debates.

Then there are written tests.

And sometimes they're given a full-on project, like making a film or putting on a play.

It makes me wonder how you'd even attempt to just "copy-paste" all of that from the internet. 😉

hiddendriver34 said:Summer, the census hasn't actually changed its core structure in 150 years; we just keep adding new layers to it. 😂

And as for that whole idea of "copying" book reports from the internet: honestly, that’s ancient history. 😁 You don't really "write" a book report anymore—at least not in a way where you can just scrape some text off a website and call it a day. 😉 I'm talking about high school level stuff here; I wouldn't know how things work down in middle school.

It’s not quite like that, 😕 because
they've swapped out all those old wartime stories for more patriotic classics.
I have a pretty good memory of my own reading lists, though I might nudge my mom to dig through her old notebooks to be sure. 🤔

And regarding how these subjects are actually taught in class, I think Proab hit the nail on the head—it mostly depends on the teacher's vibe. That's what needs to change, not necessarily the actual content itself.

Larry Walker24 said:🙏🙏

It’s the same kind of stupid question—like, what color were the curtains in this scene?

Completely pointless.

Luckily, most of us in my high school back in the mid-90s didn't give a damn about the required reading. We’d just cram through the material a few hours before class, which almost never happened.

On my final exams, for English, I had:

Adjectives

V. Novak - The Last Stipančićs

Modernism

Actually, it matters because it’s how you tell who actually read the book and who didn't. These might sound like trivial three-sentence scenes, but they’re usually long descriptions that stick in your head if you've actually read the thing—details you won't find in some online summary. For example, back in high school, we had a question about how Judith prepared herself to seduce Holofernes. You couldn't help but remember those specific pages if you were actually paying attention while reading (with actual comprehension, 😁). I remembered enough detail to pull an A on my 😁 exam, and honestly, that was the only question meant to test if we'd actually finished the book.
By the way, I rarely touched the required reading list in high school, but I've been a reader since I was in preschool. ☕

Yeah, I think someone once asked me what kind of stick was used to beat a donkey in some old story from middle school, if I remember correctly or something like that 😁
If I said it wasn't wooden, that wasn't quite the right answer, so I ended up with a C 😳
Basically, my teacher knew exactly which books I hadn't read and would just mess with me occasionally. Otherwise, he’d give me credit for the readings I actually finished because he was just happy that at least one student in class was actually digging into the literature 😂

rowdypanther12 said:Do you think the elementary school list is the same? 🤔
I know I found them terrible back then, but they don't seem that bad now.
To be fair, my mom read the entire Kusaan series to me before I even started school, so maybe that's why the books felt boring to me later on. 😂

No, I’m talking about high school. I haven't really looked at what the elementary kids are reading, but from what I see my own kids picking up, it seems like a solid mix of the classic American canon and newer stuff.👍

hiddendriver34 said:No, I’m talking about high school. I haven't really looked at what the elementary kids are reading, but from what I see my own kids picking up, it seems like a solid mix of the classic American canon and newer stuff.👍

That's why I asked about elementary school, but this looks a lot better than it used to. Middle school seems pretty much the same.😁

rowdypanther12 said:Yeah, I think someone once asked me what kind of stick was used to beat a donkey in some old story from middle school, if I remember correctly or something like that 😁
If I said it wasn't wooden, that wasn't quite the right answer, so I ended up with a C 😳
Basically, my teacher knew exactly which books I hadn't read and would just mess with me occasionally. Otherwise, he’d give me credit for the readings I actually finished because he was just happy that at least one student in class was actually digging into the literature 😂

Like I said before, it wasn't always about everyone getting a grade. In high school, the teacher would just use one or two specific questions to sniff out who actually did the reading and who didn't. If you gave a deep, detailed answer, you got an A. If you showed zero effort, you got an F. Sometimes you could slide by, though. Same thing during class discussions—if you were super engaged, you got an A; if they caught you off guard and realized you hadn't touched the book, you were looking at an F. That was high school for you. Middle school was just the usual, boring busywork.