New Age spiritual technologies

Sandra Morgan2 said:I know age catches up with everyone. Even though we hear on the forums that your "singer still crows loudly," I can see you're preoccupied—but there's really no need to try and convince me, or yourself, of the joys of impotence.🙂

There's actually one more American guy—an old soul, about 65. Unlike the first guy mentioned, this one has money coming out of his ears.
But he’s famous for a certain "old school" saying. People told him he should get married, but he just snapped back: "Why on earth would I want to feed someone else's wife?" He isn't exactly the perfect guru, though; he spends all day wandering around carrying a little bag stuffed with newspaper clippings. He constantly nags everyone that because of NASA's sloppiness, a meteorite is going to hit the country and kill most people. He acts like some kind of scientific witness for Jehovah.

Hahahahaha... man, you are something else! Such a vivid storyteller...

A rooster's crowing is a complex physiological and spiritual phenomenon. It really comes down to an individual's inner constitution. As I've mentioned before:

But take that one guy—the one who spent his entire existence holed up in the library, buried in spiritual texts—he met a rather ignominious end. Well, spiritually speaking, at least. Physically, he was still crowing away quite loudly.😁

Benjamin Taylor6 said:A rooster's crowing is a complex physiological and spiritual phenomenon. It really comes down to an individual's inner constitution. As I've mentioned before:

But take that one guy—the one who spent his entire existence holed up in the library, buried in spiritual texts—he met a rather ignominious end. Well, spiritually speaking, at least. Physically, he was still crowing away quite loudly.😁

It’s not about spiritual alignment—it’s about raw, vital energy. Who can touch their toes without bending their knees? Who still has a flat, firm core? Who hasn't let their muscle mass slip because they actually stick to a workout routine? Who can power through the day without crashing, live without losing their cool, laugh at least two hundred times a day, and eat clean? That person might not be as physically impressive as they were in their twenties, but they’ll certainly keep their "engine" running smooth and productive for a long, long time.

Sandra Morgan2 said:It’s not about spiritual alignment—it’s about raw, vital energy. Who can touch their toes without bending their knees? Who still has a flat, firm core? Who hasn't let their muscle mass slip because they actually stick to a workout routine? Who can power through the day without crashing, live without losing their cool, laugh at least two hundred times a day, and eat clean? That person might not be as physically impressive as they were in their twenties, but they’ll certainly keep their "engine" running smooth and productive for a long, long time.

I personally know quite a few people who are young, strong, and deeply spiritual. But here's the kicker: they renounce every single earthly pleasure for the sake of the heavenly kingdom. They follow their Krishna blindly, thinking that by practicing celibacy, they'll somehow grab God by the beard a little faster. In the end, from what I can see, they haven't grabbed anyone by the beard—they just ended up missing out on all the good stuff in life.😢😲😁

Benjamin Taylor6 said:I personally know quite a few people who are young, strong, and deeply spiritual. But here's the kicker: they renounce every single earthly pleasure for the sake of the heavenly kingdom. They follow their Krishna blindly, thinking that by practicing celibacy, they'll somehow grab God by the beard a little faster. In the end, from what I can see, they haven't grabbed anyone by the beard—they just ended up missing out on all the good stuff in life.😢😲😁

It’s basically a hybrid of ancient spiritual tech and the hippie movement.

The real motivation behind celibacy? Lust. Pure and simple. The average Hare Krishna hopes that by denying themselves physical pleasure, they'll bypass the line and jump straight to an elevated, transcendental bhava—which is really just ultimate spiritual ecstasy, making physical intimacy look like a dim shadow. So you see, they aren't just renouncing things; it's actually worse. They're trying to strike a bargain. "You give me sex, and I'll give You Vaikuntha bliss..." 😁

Sandra Morgan2 said:It’s basically a hybrid of ancient spiritual tech and the hippie movement.

The real motivation behind celibacy? Lust. Pure and simple. The average Hare Krishna hopes that by denying themselves physical pleasure, they'll bypass the line and jump straight to an elevated, transcendental bhava—which is really just ultimate spiritual ecstasy, making physical intimacy look like a dim shadow. So you see, they aren't just renouncing things; it's actually worse. They're trying to strike a bargain. "You give me sex, and I'll give You Vaikuntha bliss..." 😁

So, I guess the real question here is: just how much weight does our faith actually carry?

For us, it’s hard to wrap our heads around the idea of receiving everything without giving anything up first. That’s just how we were raised, right?—conditioned to believe that you have to earn every single win. If you start agreeing to these kinds of "trades," you might end up breaking your own internal moral compass just to get what you want. Like, okay, fine, I gave something up... now give me my reward.

But what if someone truly, deeply believes—100%, no doubts—that they’ll be rewarded? Does having that kind of absolute certainty actually make it happen?

(Or, more simply put, how much power does human willpower really have?)

Paul Jones7 said:So, I guess the real question here is: just how much weight does our faith actually carry?

For us, it’s hard to wrap our heads around the idea of receiving everything without giving anything up first. That’s just how we were raised, right?—conditioned to believe that you have to earn every single win. If you start agreeing to these kinds of "trades," you might end up breaking your own internal moral compass just to get what you want. Like, okay, fine, I gave something up... now give me my reward.

But what if someone truly, deeply believes—100%, no doubts—that they’ll be rewarded? Does having that kind of absolute certainty actually make it happen?

(Or, more simply put, how much power does human willpower really have?)

It looks like a tricky one. Get this—what if faith is actually a very complex and subtle "placebo"?

Someone might believe so intensely in their connection to Jesus that they undergo his suffering just to manifest stigmata. These marks always show up exactly where they're depicted on a statue in a local cathedral or some other image of Jesus that the stigmatist follows. In practice, that means they're psychological in origin.

It seems like an even bigger issue for someone living a celibate lifestyle to imagine they've reached enlightenment and then develop all the symptoms from this list: 25 Ways How Enlightenment is Like a Never Ending Orgasm.

I’ve got this theory—and look, I know, it’s just a theory, though it's more of an intuitive, lived-in feeling, if you catch my drift; basically, it's my gut telling me it's not total garbage 😛...

...that will exists on multiple levels, which kind of means it gets fragmented. Like, the "earthly" me, the lower self, it has its own set of wants. But that lower version doesn't see the full picture like the higher me does, and at the end of the day, those two versions of myself can actually want completely different things.

That’s how I see it. I think we’re just bumping heads over the terminology here—I was talking about the soul, but the core issue is really about individual existence across different spiritual planes. Even if we call it the "soul" nowadays, when people talk about "soulful desires," they're implying that what the soul wants isn't necessarily aligned with what our everyday, earthly selves want.

Anyway, skipping ahead to the bottom line 😉 I reckon the will of the lower self just isn't enough unless the whole, integrated self agrees across all levels of existence. In other words, you can only truly manifest something if you're choosing it with your entire being.

And that involves every single layer of who I am, not just the parts we're consciously aware of while walking around on the street.

But hey, maybe I'm off base. Maybe the physical level has everything it needs to make things happen by tapping directly into the absolute principles of creation and manifestation.

If that's the case, then maybe a placebo effect combined with celibacy could actually lead to Enlightenment; if not, there's still a chance that someone within certain monastic traditions might find themselves ready on every single level. 😉

Paul Jones7 said:I’ve got this theory—and look, I know, it’s just a theory, though it's more of an intuitive, lived-in feeling, if you catch my drift; basically, it's my gut telling me it's not total garbage 😛...

...that will exists on multiple levels, which kind of means it gets fragmented. Like, the "earthly" me, the lower self, it has its own set of wants. But that lower version doesn't see the full picture like the higher me does, and at the end of the day, those two versions of myself can actually want completely different things.

That’s how I see it. I think we’re just bumping heads over the terminology here—I was talking about the soul, but the core issue is really about individual existence across different spiritual planes. Even if we call it the "soul" nowadays, when people talk about "soulful desires," they're implying that what the soul wants isn't necessarily aligned with what our everyday, earthly selves want.

Anyway, skipping ahead to the bottom line 😉 I reckon the will of the lower self just isn't enough unless the whole, integrated self agrees across all levels of existence. In other words, you can only truly manifest something if you're choosing it with your entire being.

And that involves every single layer of who I am, not just the parts we're consciously aware of while walking around on the street.

But hey, maybe I'm off base. Maybe the physical level has everything it needs to make things happen by tapping directly into the absolute principles of creation and manifestation.

If that's the case, then maybe a placebo effect combined with celibacy could actually lead to Enlightenment; if not, there's still a chance that someone within certain monastic traditions might find themselves ready on every single level. 😉

That’s a clever way to put it! But while it offers intellectual satisfaction, you still don't actually know if it's true or not.

See, in your attempt to grasp the unknown, you're essentially moving from one unknown toward another. You don't know what free will is, and you don't even know who this "I" is (the lower self), nor what the soul (the higher self) actually is.

So, before we try to answer whose will it is, or whether it's free—and if so, to what extent—we have to tackle the most basic question first: WHO AM I?

It's the same with all those big, unanswered questions—does free will exist? What is the meaning of life? Where did I come from? Where am I going? What is love? Is there a Creator? Do we have souls? What is consciousness? None of these have answers until you achieve self-knowledge.

Paul Jones7 said:So, I guess the real question here is: just how much weight does our faith actually carry?

For us, it’s hard to wrap our heads around the idea of receiving everything without giving anything up first. That’s just how we were raised, right?—conditioned to believe that you have to earn every single win. If you start agreeing to these kinds of "trades," you might end up breaking your own internal moral compass just to get what you want. Like, okay, fine, I gave something up... now give me my reward.

But what if someone truly, deeply believes—100%, no doubts—that they’ll be rewarded? Does having that kind of absolute certainty actually make it happen?

(Or, more simply put, how much power does human willpower really have?)

If your theory actually holds water, then I suppose I should basically be some kind of enlightened guru like Osho, 😢😲😁
But after 35 years of being involved in Transcendental Meditation programs, I haven't seen any real progress. If anything, I've seen things go backward. I’ve noticed it most clearly with people who rely heavily on a religious placebo effect. In the end, it turns out to be a total NOCEBO 😢😲😁
My cousin is the prime example here. (And no, I don't mean the one from >)

p.s.

I originally opened this thread to hear from people who have actually lived through this, but so far, it's been a bust. One person popped in, said a few words, and then drifted right back to their astrology hobby.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:I personally know quite a few people who are young, strong, and deeply spiritual. But here's the kicker: they renounce every single earthly pleasure for the sake of the heavenly kingdom. They follow their Krishna blindly, thinking that by practicing celibacy, they'll somehow grab God by the beard a little faster. In the end, from what I can see, they haven't grabbed anyone by the beard—they just ended up missing out on all the good stuff in life.😢😲😁

So, have you actually given this method a shot yourself? Seriously, I’m dying to know if it actually works or if it's just more hype.

Sandra Morgan2 said:That’s a clever way to put it! But while it offers intellectual satisfaction, you still don't actually know if it's true or not.

See, in your attempt to grasp the unknown, you're essentially moving from one unknown toward another. You don't know what free will is, and you don't even know who this "I" is (the lower self), nor what the soul (the higher self) actually is.

So, before we try to answer whose will it is, or whether it's free—and if so, to what extent—we have to tackle the most basic question first: WHO AM I?

It's the same with all those big, unanswered questions—does free will exist? What is the meaning of life? Where did I come from? Where am I going? What is love? Is there a Creator? Do we have souls? What is consciousness? None of these have answers until you achieve self-knowledge.

doesn't everything just loop back to that eventually?

I mean, honestly, how many times does that one question just... pop up in your head?

Benjamin Taylor6 said:If your theory actually holds water, then I suppose I should basically be some kind of enlightened guru like Osho, 😢😲😁
But after 35 years of being involved in Transcendental Meditation programs, I haven't seen any real progress. If anything, I've seen things go backward. I’ve noticed it most clearly with people who rely heavily on a religious placebo effect. In the end, it turns out to be a total NOCEBO 😢😲😁
My cousin is the prime example here. (And no, I don't mean the one from >)

p.s.

I originally opened this thread to hear from people who have actually lived through this, but so far, it's been a bust. One person popped in, said a few words, and then drifted right back to their astrology hobby.

There’s this neat little forum out there where this interesting guy explains the fundamental issue with (pretty much) all these techniques—how they're passed down. He argues that most of these methods are essentially dead because the people who truly understood them have passed away, leaving a void where the living interpretation—the kind that actually has the power to make a technique click for someone—should be.

To really learn a technique, he suggests you need someone to guide you. You have to align your terminology first, because we often assume we're talking about the same thing when we're actually using the same words to describe completely different concepts. That’s why you just can’t get true understanding solely from books. Not to mention how, over time, collective shifts occur in the mental frameworks behind the language itself.

And besides, how is someone who hasn't achieved it themselves going to lead you there? It seems impossible. I guess the only way is if an enlightened person guides you toward enlightenment. When you have these people acting like they've reached something, pretending they have, but they're really just leading circles of people who are all spinning in the same spot... well, that leads nowhere.

What strikes me is that maybe a technique isn't the path for everyone. Maybe something that doesn't cause harm is simply activating that internal observer—that part of you that notices everything without passing judgment.

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:So, have you actually given this method a shot yourself? Seriously, I’m dying to know if it actually works or if it's just more hype.

Hare Krishna? Look, I’m not Indian, but I am Christian. Whenever I head out fishing by myself—just me and the water—I find myself humming this one specific hymn, though I usually just stick to a single verse:
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!

It feels fundamentally the same as
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare

Paul Jones7 said:doesn't everything just loop back to that eventually?

I mean, honestly, how many times does that one question just... pop up in your head?

[/
Originally Posted by Sandra Morgan2 View Post
So, here’s my take—before we even attempt to tackle that whole exhausting debate over whose will it actually is, or whether free will even exists in any meaningful sense, let alone how much of it we actually possess—we really ought to pause. We need to address a much more fundamental, much more elementary question first. Who am I?

Old thread:

Look, there’s really only two ways this plays out—we either dive headfirst into an intenziv session of gnosis or enlightenment, or we just sign up for a Shunyate course and call it a day. There isn't much middle ground here.


The true value of grasping gnosis when you ask that heavy question—“Who am I?”—is that it acts like a stabilizer for the soul. It’s the foundation. Once you have that, you find yourself moving through psychological, emotional, and spiritual growth at a much more rapid pace because you finally have a steady center of gravity within yourself. You aren't just drifting anymore. In an era like this—one that feels increasingly defined by chaos and suffering—the world desperately needs people who actually know who they are. We need individuals who grasp the reality of what life is about and have truly encountered the Other Human Being.

Those who focus only on the months ahead end up just planting grass—something quick, easy, and ultimately shallow. But if you’re actually looking at the years, the decades... that’s when you start planting trees. It’s about the long game, really. Most people are too caught up in the immediate gratification of the season to ever think about building something that actually lasts.

Those who dwell on the passing centuries—they spend their lives building temples. But those who fix their gaze on eternity? They are the ones actually hunting for the Truth.

Paul Jones7 said:doesn't everything just loop back to that eventually?

I mean, honestly, how many times does that one question just... pop up in your head?

☕ It's just... an endless loop.

Until we finally realize

Q: You say that the question "Who am I?" doesn't remain there when you really scrutinize it?

UG Krishnamurthi: Because you cannot separate the question from the questioner. The question and the questioner are the same.

If you accept that fact, it's a very simple thing: when the question disappears, the questioner also disappears with that.

But since the questioner does not want to disappear, the question remains.

The questioner wants an answer for the question. Since there is no answer to that question, the questioner remains there forever. The questioner's interest is to continue, not to get the answer.

The questioner is nothing but the answers.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Hare Krishna? Look, I’m not Indian, but I am Christian. Whenever I head out fishing by myself—just me and the water—I find myself humming this one specific hymn, though I usually just stick to a single verse:
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!

It feels fundamentally the same as
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare

Oh, nice dodge! Talk about a quick exit strategy. I wasn't even talking about Hare Krishna—I was talking about celibacy.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Hare Krishna? Look, I’m not Indian, but I am Christian. Whenever I head out fishing by myself—just me and the water—I find myself humming this one specific hymn, though I usually just stick to a single verse:
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!
Come, Holy Spirit, enlighten us from heaven with the power of Your grace!

It feels fundamentally the same as
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare

At least you're asking for us rather than just yourself. You're praying for all of us, and that's a kind gesture. Thanks.

Come, most holy Spirit, descend from the heavens and enlighten us through the power of Your grace!

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Oh, nice dodge! Talk about a quick exit strategy. I wasn't even talking about Hare Krishna—I was talking about celibacy.

CELIBACY?!
I haven't personally tried that specific method of spiritual growth—at least, not by choice. 😁

What I mean is the kind of celibacy described in this joke at the end. Let's call it "winding" celibacy:
A guy walks into his doctor's office and says:
- Doc, my wife is pregnant.
The doctor replies: - Well, that's great news.
- I know, but what's my sex life going to look like for the next nine months?
- Well, for the first three months, you can do things just like you always have. For the next three months...
you're stuck with doggy style, and for the final three months, it's strictly the wolf position.
- Thanks, doc. I'm just not sure what the "wolf position" actually entails.
- Oh, that's easy. You sit next to the hole and howl.

But honestly, I know people who actually attempted true celibacy and ended up failing quite miserably. To make matters worse, they usually end up getting beaten up and spending the night in a psych ward. Take my cousin, for instance—this Hare Krishna fellow who used to cause absolute chaos in our neighborhood. People eventually had to give him a good thrashing and call the police just to lock up the frustrated lunatic. Nowadays, he's just pumping iron at the gym, so he isn't out destroying everyone else's property anymore.
And the man actually holds a PhD. All those years of academic study didn't amount to much in certain respects. It took a solid ten years before God or Krishna finally decided to enlighten his brain.

Henry Fox2 said:At least you're asking for us rather than just yourself. You're praying for all of us, and that's a kind gesture. Thanks.

Come, most holy Spirit, descend from the heavens and enlighten us through the power of Your grace!

Maybe he'll listen to you and then finally help me out.😁

Actually, maybe I should just find a crew and pay them to pray for me. 😁 Rent-a-Prayerhttp://www.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=336

Benjamin Taylor6 said:The only person I know who made serious bank was a genuine, wealthy guru. And he’s a local guy from St. Louis. When I first met him back in '83, he was practically a nobody—just some church mouse living a quiet life.

You can go to him for training:
But you really need to be a bit more advanced in those matters. 😁

http://www.makaj.org/en/training_basic.php

BASIC TRAINING
In addition to the major schools and Kundalini intensives already mentioned, Makaj basic training also includes the following courses, each lasting two weekends (you can find more detailed info and specific dates at our community centers):
Makaj Meditation
Makaj – School of Yoga
Healing Hands
Health, Evolution, and Physiognomy
Sex and Politherapy
Makaj – School of Love and Eroticism
John Joga-sutar and Makaj I
John Joga-sutar and Makaj II
Robert Joga-sutar and Makaj III
Michael Joga-sutar and Makaj IV
Victor Psihofonik and Makaj V
John Psihofonika or Sound, Voice, and Spirit I
John Psihofonika or Sound, Voice, and Spirit II
Death of the Ego
Spiritual Pedagogy – For the Young, the Old, and the Lovers
Group Work Pedagogy
Group Dynamics – The Decisive Factor for Success
Spirit is Gold
Spiritual Crises and Ecstasies
The guru discusses his latest insights.

That's a solid point. If (and when) I ever cross paths with him, I really ought to give him a pat on the back for making it big.
Just think about it—out of all those Indian gurus and Western New Age types, this guy actually pulled it off.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:The only person I know who made serious bank was a genuine, wealthy guru. And he’s a local guy from St. Louis. When I first met him back in '83, he was practically a nobody—just some church mouse living a quiet life.

You can go to him for training:
But you really need to be a bit more advanced in those matters. 😁

http://www.makaj.org/en/training_basic.php

BASIC TRAINING
In addition to the major schools and Kundalini intensives already mentioned, Makaj basic training also includes the following courses, each lasting two weekends (you can find more detailed info and specific dates at our community centers):
Makaj Meditation
Makaj – School of Yoga
Healing Hands
Health, Evolution, and Physiognomy
Sex and Politherapy
Makaj – School of Love and Eroticism
John Joga-sutar and Makaj I
John Joga-sutar and Makaj II
Robert Joga-sutar and Makaj III
Michael Joga-sutar and Makaj IV
Victor Psihofonik and Makaj V
John Psihofonika or Sound, Voice, and Spirit I
John Psihofonika or Sound, Voice, and Spirit II
Death of the Ego
Spiritual Pedagogy – For the Young, the Old, and the Lovers
Group Work Pedagogy
Group Dynamics – The Decisive Factor for Success
Spirit is Gold
Spiritual Crises and Ecstasies
The guru discusses his latest insights.

At sixteen, I don't think I'd have much luck building a career like that. 🙂

Give me a better example,

like how things are going for that guy who used to be in TMu, Stanislav.
Does he have some secret technique for manifesting actual cash?

Benjamin Taylor6 said:CELIBACY?!
I haven't personally tried that specific method of spiritual growth—at least, not by choice. 😁

What I mean is the kind of celibacy described in this joke at the end. Let's call it "winding" celibacy:
A guy walks into his doctor's office and says:
- Doc, my wife is pregnant.
The doctor replies: - Well, that's great news.
- I know, but what's my sex life going to look like for the next nine months?
- Well, for the first three months, you can do things just like you always have. For the next three months...
you're stuck with doggy style, and for the final three months, it's strictly the wolf position.
- Thanks, doc. I'm just not sure what the "wolf position" actually entails.
- Oh, that's easy. You sit next to the hole and howl.

But honestly, I know people who actually attempted true celibacy and ended up failing quite miserably. To make matters worse, they usually end up getting beaten up and spending the night in a psych ward. Take my cousin, for instance—this Hare Krishna fellow who used to cause absolute chaos in our neighborhood. People eventually had to give him a good thrashing and call the police just to lock up the frustrated lunatic. Nowadays, he's just pumping iron at the gym, so he isn't out destroying everyone else's property anymore.
And the man actually holds a PhD. All those years of academic study didn't amount to much in certain respects. It took a solid ten years before God or Krishna finally decided to enlighten his brain.

Maybe he'll listen to you and then finally help me out.😁

Actually, maybe I should just find a crew and pay them to pray for me. 😁 Rent-a-Prayerhttp://www.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=336

But how are you supposed to know if it’s actually your thing if you don't try it? It feels a little judgmental to just write off certain practices before even giving them a shot, doesn't it?