Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

crimsongull20 said:Personally, I don't mind if a parent has questions, complaints, or praise, provided it's actually about their kid's progress or absences. Luckily, those extreme pests are rare enough that they don't need much mention.

BUT: When the first person in line realizes there are 15 other parents waiting behind them, yet decides to launch into a monologue about their weekend wedding trip—complete with a play-by-play of the catering and decor—and then pivots into a laundry list of grievances about work, inflation, the weather, and their recent knee MRI... all while barely asking about their child and forcing everyone else to stand there because there aren't enough chairs, despite subtle hints that people are waiting... yeah. In those moments, I'd love to just take my heavy desk organizer and give them a little tap on the head...

It's the exact same story in my field and a hundred others. I can roll my eyes internally all I want, but at the end of the day, those people are my livelihood. So, I just bite my tongue and move on.

Jason Ortiz5 said:It's the exact same story in my field and a hundred others. I can roll my eyes internally all I want, but at the end of the day, those people are my livelihood. So, I just bite my tongue and move on.

I bite my tongue too, obviously—usually with a smile. I just meant that the only time communicating with parents actually gets under my skin is when they're being completely inconsiderate toward one another.

Jason Ortiz5 said:If you feel like all the parents (or even just most of them—which is plenty 🤷 ) are just an unreasonable mob looking for handouts, and we’ve already agreed on this forum a million times that kids are basically a mirror of how they were raised, then why are you even working in the school system?

😁 Because I truly love what I do. When I run into people like you, I just handle it with my kindest, most patient smile, much like how a teacher might gently guide a child through a lesson. And I'm still handing out straight A's. 😉

wanderingbadger44 said:😁 Because I truly love what I do. When I run into people like you, I just handle it with my kindest, most patient smile, much like how a teacher might gently guide a child through a lesson. And I'm still handing out straight A's. 😉

What exactly do you mean by "people like me"?

Look, putting aside how much you love to hear yourself talk and how "eloquent" you think you are, every single thing you write just screams contempt for parents. It’s honestly pretty sad to see someone with that attitude working in education. Actually, it’d be just as tragic if you worked in any field that requires talking to actual human beings. 😢

A huge part of being a professional is just realizing that everyone is different. People think differently, react differently, and have different levels of schooling... some people are a total breeze to work with, while others are tough, or slow to catch on, or just have strong opinions. Sure, it would be way easier if everyone just treated whatever service they were getting as gospel and nodded along like mindless drones. Luckily, at least in my line of work, we don't have many of those types. If we did, incompetent people who are just good at sucking up would be running the show, and everything would fall apart. Education is especially sensitive in that regard, in my opinion. A great educator can change a kid's life, but a bad one can cause real damage. And at the end of the day, parents are parents. Despite how much you try to play smart, most of them just love their kids and want what's best for them. Lots of people mess that up, but teachers mess up too. Parents are often the only ones who will actually question what's happening in a classroom and call out things that aren't good for the kids. Because let's face it—other teachers won't. They might gossip about a colleague's incompetence behind closed doors, but the second an outsider asks a question—even if it isn't criticism, just a genuine question—they all band together to defend one of their own. They don't seem to realize that by doing that, the actually talented and capable ones are just dragging down their own profession.

Shout out to the exceptions, though. Thank goodness there are some...

crimsongull20 said:I bite my tongue too, obviously—usually with a smile. I just meant that the only time communicating with parents actually gets under my skin is when they're being completely inconsiderate toward one another.

Sadly, people are just wired this way, and honestly, it feels like it's getting worse. Sometimes I catch myself feeling bad about it, thinking we're just bringing it on ourselves. But then I sleep on it, clear my head, and realize it's just how things go. 🙂

That's exactly why I think we all need to become little diplomats within our own fields. We really need to lean into having more patience and empathy for people. I know, I know—it's tough, and nobody has the time for it. And look, there are definitely those types of people you'd love to just toss off a third-story balcony (I actually dealt with one of those this morning over coffee... 🙄 ). But most of the time, people aren't being mean on purpose. It's all just part of the job experience. 🙂

Jason Ortiz5 said:What exactly do you mean by "people like me"?

Look, putting aside how much you love to hear yourself talk and how "eloquent" you think you are, every single thing you write just screams contempt for parents. It’s honestly pretty sad to see someone with that attitude working in education. Actually, it’d be just as tragic if you worked in any field that requires talking to actual human beings. 😢

A huge part of being a professional is just realizing that everyone is different. People think differently, react differently, and have different levels of schooling... some people are a total breeze to work with, while others are tough, or slow to catch on, or just have strong opinions. Sure, it would be way easier if everyone just treated whatever service they were getting as gospel and nodded along like mindless drones. Luckily, at least in my line of work, we don't have many of those types. If we did, incompetent people who are just good at sucking up would be running the show, and everything would fall apart. Education is especially sensitive in that regard, in my opinion. A great educator can change a kid's life, but a bad one can cause real damage. And at the end of the day, parents are parents. Despite how much you try to play smart, most of them just love their kids and want what's best for them. Lots of people mess that up, but teachers mess up too. Parents are often the only ones who will actually question what's happening in a classroom and call out things that aren't good for the kids. Because let's face it—other teachers won't. They might gossip about a colleague's incompetence behind closed doors, but the second an outsider asks a question—even if it isn't criticism, just a genuine question—they all band together to defend one of their own. They don't seem to realize that by doing that, the actually talented and capable ones are just dragging down their own profession.

Shout out to the exceptions, though. Thank goodness there are some...

You’re making a mountain out of a molehill...

Maybe I jumped into the wrong thread, but I had to say...

From the moment my kid hit first grade through the end of elementary school, I spent endless hours arguing with everyone... school administrators, doctors, specialists... just non-stop. In that first year, he treated his teacher like some preschool nanny. It drove her absolutely insane because the kid had zero concept of authority. He didn't get why he was forced to sit at a desk for 45 minutes straight when he was exhausted... there were constant battles on both sides. Honestly, I have no idea how he managed to stay so high-strung all the way through fifth grade...

I don't hold any grudges against the teachers or the grading... none at all. All those points they docked, whether they meant to or not? They actually ended up doing us a favor...

Every single time we talked to counselors, principals, or teachers, our approach was always cooperation. If they suggested a psychologist? We’d book an appointment. They suggested a specialist at Mayo Clinic for testing? We were there. We never made a scene with the kid over any of it. He learned early on that seeing a psychiatrist isn't some big, terrifying ordeal—you just sit down, have a civilized talk with the doctor, maybe get a candy bar out of it. He even got a clean bill of health. By high school, he realized that just because a teacher is an authority figure doesn't mean they're infallible, though he'd still play along just to keep the peace. Now, whenever he walks onto the school grounds, there isn't a faculty member who doesn't stop to say hello... just a friendly chat...

Regarding that point in the original post... the kid is only in fifth grade. He isn’t slow just because he has dyslexia. Stop treating it like some terminal illness. He’s going to face a thousand more injustices because of this condition later on...

ruggednomad5 said:You’re making a mountain out of a molehill...

Maybe I jumped into the wrong thread, but I had to say...

From the moment my kid hit first grade through the end of elementary school, I spent endless hours arguing with everyone... school administrators, doctors, specialists... just non-stop. In that first year, he treated his teacher like some preschool nanny. It drove her absolutely insane because the kid had zero concept of authority. He didn't get why he was forced to sit at a desk for 45 minutes straight when he was exhausted... there were constant battles on both sides. Honestly, I have no idea how he managed to stay so high-strung all the way through fifth grade...

I don't hold any grudges against the teachers or the grading... none at all. All those points they docked, whether they meant to or not? They actually ended up doing us a favor...

Every single time we talked to counselors, principals, or teachers, our approach was always cooperation. If they suggested a psychologist? We’d book an appointment. They suggested a specialist at Mayo Clinic for testing? We were there. We never made a scene with the kid over any of it. He learned early on that seeing a psychiatrist isn't some big, terrifying ordeal—you just sit down, have a civilized talk with the doctor, maybe get a candy bar out of it. He even got a clean bill of health. By high school, he realized that just because a teacher is an authority figure doesn't mean they're infallible, though he'd still play along just to keep the peace. Now, whenever he walks onto the school grounds, there isn't a faculty member who doesn't stop to say hello... just a friendly chat...

Regarding that point in the original post... the kid is only in fifth grade. He isn’t slow just because he has dyslexia. Stop treating it like some terminal illness. He’s going to face a thousand more injustices because of this condition later on...

And we're just supposed to act like that's totally fine and normal? 😕

Jason Ortiz5 said:What exactly do you mean by "people like me"?

Look, putting aside how much you love to hear yourself talk and how "eloquent" you think you are, every single thing you write just screams contempt for parents. It’s honestly pretty sad to see someone with that attitude working in education. Actually, it’d be just as tragic if you worked in any field that requires talking to actual human beings. 😢

A huge part of being a professional is just realizing that everyone is different. People think differently, react differently, and have different levels of schooling... some people are a total breeze to work with, while others are tough, or slow to catch on, or just have strong opinions. Sure, it would be way easier if everyone just treated whatever service they were getting as gospel and nodded along like mindless drones. Luckily, at least in my line of work, we don't have many of those types. If we did, incompetent people who are just good at sucking up would be running the show, and everything would fall apart. Education is especially sensitive in that regard, in my opinion. A great educator can change a kid's life, but a bad one can cause real damage. And at the end of the day, parents are parents. Despite how much you try to play smart, most of them just love their kids and want what's best for them. Lots of people mess that up, but teachers mess up too. Parents are often the only ones who will actually question what's happening in a classroom and call out things that aren't good for the kids. Because let's face it—other teachers won't. They might gossip about a colleague's incompetence behind closed doors, but the second an outsider asks a question—even if it isn't criticism, just a genuine question—they all band together to defend one of their own. They don't seem to realize that by doing that, the actually talented and capable ones are just dragging down their own profession.

Shout out to the exceptions, though. Thank goodness there are some...

What a fantastic post! I’d say you’re a wise and kind soul if I could just forget that you were the one responsible for that nasty comment—you know, the one about "poor little teachers... boohoo..."—that prompted me to speak up here in the first place.

Try reading your own post again, but swap the roles of the parent and the teacher. You'll quickly see that your logic holds up even then.

And one more thing: for so many kids, school is the only stable foundation they have in their lives.

Teachers aren't retail clerks or service workers where the mantra "the customer is always right" applies. But if things aren't going smoothly, they didn't earn their degrees through a game of chance; they aren't too dim-witted to use diplomacy when necessary, or to pivot when it makes sense. If parents want to take center stage in their children's education, let them.

wanderingbadger44 said:What a fantastic post! I’d say you’re a wise and kind soul if I could just forget that you were the one responsible for that nasty comment—you know, the one about "poor little teachers... boohoo..."—that prompted me to speak up here in the first place.

Try reading your own post again, but swap the roles of the parent and the teacher. You'll quickly see that your logic holds up even then.

And one more thing: for so many kids, school is the only stable foundation they have in their lives.

Teachers aren't retail clerks or service workers where the mantra "the customer is always right" applies. But if things aren't going smoothly, they didn't earn their degrees through a game of chance; they aren't too dim-witted to use diplomacy when necessary, or to pivot when it makes sense. If parents want to take center stage in their children's education, let them.

My "boo hoo" remark was aimed—and you're smart enough to catch this—at those specific types of educators who are constantly whining against everything. You know the ones: they're always right, and everyone else is at fault—parents, kids, the whole American school system... If this thread were about any other profession, even mine, I'd be saying the exact same thing about "poor little cashiers, small business owners, chimney sweeps..." you name it.

I totally agree with you that school is often the only safe haven for many kids (man, there are just too many of them... 😢 ), which honestly just makes your role even more sensitive and vital. That’s why you shouldn't be shielding the folks in your profession who provide the same chaotic environment at school that these kids might already be dealing with at home. I went through my own schooling, I've got plenty of teachers in my family, and now it's my little sibling's turn to head to class. I'm not naive; I know there are tons of wonderful, selfless educators who truly pour their hearts into their work. But there are also those who are the exact opposite of what they should be (and let's face it, that happens in every job). You probably know as well as I do that the bad apples always stand out. It’s especially tough when a profession starts protecting its own just for the sake of looking good.

I know your field isn't one where the "client is always right." But they aren't always wrong, either. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle. 😉

The fundamental flaw in education is that measuring a teacher's actual impact is nearly impossible. Sure, we have standardized testing like the SATs, but you can't use those scores as the sole metric for whether a teacher is doing their job. There are too many variables... student aptitude, motivation levels, parental involvement, private tutoring, etc. Plus, there’s the massive gap between prep schools and vocational schools, yet the national exams are designed strictly around a college-prep curriculum.

Relying on student satisfaction isn't an objective way to measure success either. Most students are minors who tend to favor teachers who let them slack off. And parents? They aren't in the classroom, and even if they were, most lack the specialized expertise to make a valid assessment.

As for winning academic competitions, that’s a different story entirely. Those wins usually just highlight a handful of gifted kids performing at a high level with minimal teacher intervention. It’s much harder to get twenty average students to score slightly above average on a year-end exam than it is to coach one prodigy to take first place in a national competition.

Because of all this, building a system that actually rewards excellence or penalizes incompetence is a nightmare, regardless of how much funding or political will you throw at it. In healthcare, it's simpler because patient satisfaction provides a relatively reliable feedback loop. In education, it's a mess. But discussing it feels pointless... there's zero political appetite for fixing the system anyway.

I’m not in education myself (though I do have two kids currently in school), but speaking as someone whose profession isn't service-oriented—at least not in that modern, patronizing sense where people act like "we aren't here for them, they're here for us," which is honestly such a diminishing way to look at any profession—it feels to me like we're seeing a total breakdown of social cohesion. I’m not trying to play devil's advocate for teachers, nor am I looking to throw them under the bus, but it really looks to me like there's this massive deficit of trust and respect on both sides. Parents don't seem to trust the educators, and yet, paradoxically, they hold these incredibly high expectations for the very groups they don't actually respect.
What a contradiction! As a parent—first going through the daycare years and now dealing with elementary school—I have never, and I mean never, had an issue communicating with the people my children were placed in the care of, whether it was just babysitting or actual schooling...
The little hiccups kids face—like falling off a slide, getting bumped by some kid named Billy or Joey, or even getting a C in gym class—those aren't things I feel like I should be micromanaging with a preschool teacher or a middle school instructor.
That’s just part of growing up and getting an education...
Maybe that’s because I was raised in a different era, or maybe I’ve just been lucky...
Mozda I’m being too hard on people, simply because I hold them in such high regard—I truly believe that, alongside parents, they are among the most vital people in a child's early life ;-)
Or maybe I don't protect my kids enough if, say, I tell them after they get a D in PE,🙏 "Listen, honey, not everyone is an athlete; what matters is that you tried."
Mozda they're just lost in the woods?

Grace Cox12 said:I’m not in education myself (though I do have two kids currently in school), but speaking as someone whose profession isn't service-oriented—at least not in that modern, patronizing sense where people act like "we aren't here for them, they're here for us," which is honestly such a diminishing way to look at any profession—it feels to me like we're seeing a total breakdown of social cohesion. I’m not trying to play devil's advocate for teachers, nor am I looking to throw them under the bus, but it really looks to me like there's this massive deficit of trust and respect on both sides. Parents don't seem to trust the educators, and yet, paradoxically, they hold these incredibly high expectations for the very groups they don't actually respect.
What a contradiction! As a parent—first going through the daycare years and now dealing with elementary school—I have never, and I mean never, had an issue communicating with the people my children were placed in the care of, whether it was just babysitting or actual schooling...
The little hiccups kids face—like falling off a slide, getting bumped by some kid named Billy or Joey, or even getting a C in gym class—those aren't things I feel like I should be micromanaging with a preschool teacher or a middle school instructor.
That’s just part of growing up and getting an education...
Maybe that’s because I was raised in a different era, or maybe I’ve just been lucky...
Mozda I’m being too hard on people, simply because I hold them in such high regard—I truly believe that, alongside parents, they are among the most vital people in a child's early life ;-)
Or maybe I don't protect my kids enough if, say, I tell them after they get a D in PE,🙏 "Listen, honey, not everyone is an athlete; what matters is that you tried."
Mozda they're just lost in the woods?

I am 100% with you on this, and it honestly breaks my heart that so many young parents feel the exact opposite:
they openly disrespect teachers, instructors, and childcare providers, treating them like they're some lower class of people who don't actually do anything useful.
And then, in the same breath, they expect those very same people to educate, raise, guide, and protect their children...
The hypocrisy is unreal.

amberskipper3 said:I am 100% with you on this, and it honestly breaks my heart that so many young parents feel the exact opposite:
they openly disrespect teachers, instructors, and childcare providers, treating them like they're some lower class of people who don't actually do anything useful.
And then, in the same breath, they expect those very same people to educate, raise, guide, and protect their children...
The hypocrisy is unreal.

That just isn't the reality here. The real issue is that any parenting question or any critique regarding what educators do is treated like a personal attack. Then you get these people jumping in, acting all offended about how much "respect" teachers deserve.

On my daughter's school portal, the principal posted this little "masterpiece" to kick off the new school year. She kept going on and on about the "partnership" between parents and school staff, calling for better communication and cooperation... But it turns out the only kind of "cooperation" she actually wants is for everyone to clap along. When the teacher mentioned we should probably chip in to pay for classroom supplies because the district budget is dry, everyone suddenly went silent. Basically, if you aren't offering nothing but endless praise and bowing down to authority, you're unwelcome. Any actual questions usually get met with a condescending tone, like they're talking to a bunch of toddlers.

Jason Ortiz5 said:That just isn't the reality here. The real issue is that any parenting question or any critique regarding what educators do is treated like a personal attack. Then you get these people jumping in, acting all offended about how much "respect" teachers deserve.

On my daughter's school portal, the principal posted this little "masterpiece" to kick off the new school year. She kept going on and on about the "partnership" between parents and school staff, calling for better communication and cooperation... But it turns out the only kind of "cooperation" she actually wants is for everyone to clap along. When the teacher mentioned we should probably chip in to pay for classroom supplies because the district budget is dry, everyone suddenly went silent. Basically, if you aren't offering nothing but endless praise and bowing down to authority, you're unwelcome. Any actual questions usually get met with a condescending tone, like they're talking to a bunch of toddlers.

Now this is getting interesting. Hard to wrap my head around, though. Any chance you could give me an example? Like, what exactly are parents asking that triggers this condescending response from the teacher?

Dana Roberts4 said:Now this is getting interesting. Hard to wrap my head around, though. Any chance you could give me an example? Like, what exactly are parents asking that triggers this condescending response from the teacher?

Here’s a fresh one for you: I heard about this mom at a PTA meeting asking why the lunch monitors were being so hard on kids who didn't finish their whole meal in the cafeteria. (I actually chimed in too—told her she should just offer to eat the leftovers herself if the monitor was so worried!) The response? A sarcastic little smirk and a comment about how we all just trust our kids way too much.

Then there was that whole thing with the after-school clubs. They organized them by classroom, right? Like, class 2A had art, 2B had drama, 2C had dance, and so on. The kids could technically switch to another class if they liked a different activity better. But a ton of them just stuck with their own class even when they weren't into the activities at all. They're still little, so they tend to cling to what's familiar. And the official answer from the school? "That’s just how we set it up; it won't hurt them to try something they aren't crazy about." Seriously? What a joke. (Luckily, my kid ended up liking whatever her class picked, but I still don't think that's right...)

I get the feeling those after-school programs for the younger kids are mostly set up based on what the teachers are actually into—it’s more about their hobbies than some rigid curriculum. For instance, my buddy’s teacher runs an art club, and my older son’s former teacher used to lead a little choir group. My oldest loved the choir, but my youngest isn't interested in the art club, so he just skips it. Honestly, I don't see any harm in that—besides, I have no clue how you’d even design a schedule that hits every single kid's interest perfectly (not to mention keeping all the parents happy)
Regarding what was said above—about how some teachers seem to take every parental question or inquiry as a personal attack—well, sure, miscommunications happen between people all the time, but reading what you wrote, Jason Ortiz5, it feels like you might already be starting off on the wrong foot with this group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you've got a bit of a negative bias toward them from the jump

None of these parents actually attacked the teacher or did anything wrong just by asking why things are handled a certain way. That’s my whole point: honestly, the second you ask a question, people immediately label you as being "difficult" or negative toward them.

All this talk about "parent-teacher partnership" is basically just empty slogans. In reality, all they expect from parents is for us to sit there, nod our heads, listen without questioning anything, and write checks.

Kudos to the ones who actually stand their ground...

I’m trying to put myself in that teacher's shoes, facing the question of why on earth the duty teachers are hassling kids just because they didn't finish their lunch... And honestly? What does she even know?! Some random colleague somewhere decided food shouldn't go to waste... But what is she supposed to tell the parents? Make them happy while their precious little ones stay untouched, all without throwing a coworker under the bus? She doesn't even know who's involved, if the claim is even true, or why that guy acted like such a jerk in the first place... 🤷
I was expecting questions about things actually within her jurisdiction, not stuff that's completely out of her control or knowledge... It's the same deal with extracurriculars. Like, if a colleague wants to run a drama club—what is she actually supposed to do or even suggest right now? 🤔

"Parental gold" should include things like school activities too. Honestly, who was she even supposed to ask instead of the teacher? A parent? Would the teacher have lost her job if she’d just been polite and said, "I'm not sure, let me look into that," or "I'll check on it"? She could've just mentioned that parents come in all varieties and maybe someone was being a bit overzealous. Instead, she basically insulted us by implying we "trust our kids too much." Give me a break. It’s like she thinks she’s running a Munchausen syndrome clinic rather than a second-grade classroom.

Personally, like I’ve said before, these little things don't really get under my skin, even if I do have an opinion on them. I have my own way of handling stuff, and my kid is going to be just fine—she'll just learn a little life lesson along the way about how to deal with people like that. But man, it was awkward watching those other moms try to bridge the gap and end up looking totally ridiculous.

And if her questions had actually been about her actual teaching duties, people would have immediately jumped down her throat, calling it meddling or acting like a know-it-all.