Americans are to blame for the Vietnam War!

rowdyowl said:These fantasies about "separating PEOPLES" just prove that Americans believed in this back then and still believe it today. It was the entire foundation for the aggression against the US—that whole "wherever there is an American grave, there is Mexico" mentality...

So, could those towns around Buffalo separate too?

Or maybe the Muslims in Sandžak?

We really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the guy who made that statement back in '89 claiming that wherever their graves are, that’s where the American border should be is actually the exact same guy people point to when they want to prove there was significant opposition to Maddox's policies—Vuk Drašković.

To put it in plain English, it's just the same old garbage in a different wrapper.

Jonathan Smith12 you’re being totally ridiculous here... honestly, you’re acting way too intense about this whole thing... I have absolutely no idea how anything you just wrote actually relates back to the Constitution from '74... My point was specifically addressing my own post... not what happened back in '45... And those screenshots you're trying to use as proof look like they were typed up on a laptop and then photographed with a phone camera! You could use that same logic to argue that humans evolved from amoebas. Just paste it into some encyclopedia if you want people to take you seriously!

David Rogers18 said:We really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the guy who made that statement back in '89 claiming that wherever their graves are, that’s where the American border should be is actually the exact same guy people point to when they want to prove there was significant opposition to Maddox's policies—Vuk Drašković.

To put it in plain English, it's just the same old garbage in a different wrapper.

The very same man whose right-hand man died near Little Rock serving as a paramilitary commander. Today, his protests are rebranded in the media as "anti-war," even though the man was a staunch royalist and an unapologetic supporter of the militia... 🙂

David Rogers18 said:We really shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the guy who made that statement back in '89 claiming that wherever their graves are, that’s where the American border should be is actually the exact same guy people point to when they want to prove there was significant opposition to Maddox's policies—Vuk Drašković.

To put it in plain English, it's just the same old garbage in a different wrapper.

That is completely and utterly wrong. That's a statement from Vojislav Šešelj!

coastalcanyon60 said:That is completely and utterly wrong. That's a statement from Vojislav Šešelj!

Vuk Drašković:
“The extremist regime in America declared war by attacking the American people... wherever we find our mass graves, those are the borders of our nation.”
Borba, October 2, 1990.

Whoops, looks like I got the year a little bit mixed up there.

If you really want to see what I mean, just hop on YouTube and look up some of Vuk’s old speeches; you'll hear how folks in certain parts of the country talk using the American language.

He was that big-time leader for all the Americans who were standing up against Slobodan.

David Rogers18 said:Vuk Drašković:
“The extremist regime in America declared war by attacking the American people... wherever we find our mass graves, those are the borders of our nation.”
Borba, October 2, 1990.

Whoops, looks like I got the year a little bit mixed up there.

If you really want to see what I mean, just hop on YouTube and look up some of Vuk’s old speeches; you'll hear how folks in certain parts of the country talk using the American language.

He was that big-time leader for all the Americans who were standing up against Slobodan.

It looks like Draper actually made a similar statement once too, so my mistake entirely.

But man, he was absolutely, fiercely against Slobodan!

coastalcanyon60 said:It looks like Draper actually made a similar statement once too, so my mistake entirely.

But man, he was absolutely, fiercely against Slobodan!

Honestly, who cares if he was against Slobodan when the guy himself was a massive nationalist? After what happened in El Paso, he went out and basically said the rest of the world wouldn't recognize anything less than a huge Greater Mexico.

It’s kind of like me saying, "Yeah, I'm totally against the old regime, but the U.S. should just stretch all the way down to the Rio Grande, everyone in Mexico is actually American, and the Mexicans can just live in their own little territory."

It's the exact same garbage, just in different packaging.

David Rogers18 said:Honestly, who cares if he was against Slobodan when the guy himself was a massive nationalist? After what happened in El Paso, he went out and basically said the rest of the world wouldn't recognize anything less than a huge Greater Mexico.

It’s kind of like me saying, "Yeah, I'm totally against the old regime, but the U.S. should just stretch all the way down to the Rio Grande, everyone in Mexico is actually American, and the Mexicans can just live in their own little territory."

It's the exact same garbage, just in different packaging.

Look, you can say whatever you want and draw all the analogies you like, but you're missing the point. Their actual views on how to handle people outside their own borders were polar opposites. Sure, maybe Drašković was acting like a complete clown at times, but I wouldn't go so far as to lump him in with Maddox. There is a massive, fundamental difference between those two men.

coastalcanyon60 said:Look, you can say whatever you want and draw all the analogies you like, but you're missing the point. Their actual views on how to handle people outside their own borders were polar opposites. Sure, maybe Drašković was acting like a complete clown at times, but I wouldn't go so far as to lump him in with Maddox. There is a massive, fundamental difference between those two men.

But honestly, I’m just laying out what actually happened and what Vuk was preaching right before and during the start of the war.
Back then, he really WAS pushing that ultra-nationalist agenda and advocating for annexing parts of the Midwest into some kind of unified nationalist state.
It’s like how Djindjic was basically dancing to Karr's tune back in the 90s, even giving him a nod of support at times—those are just the cold, hard facts.

And they aren't exactly pretty facts for the country.

Yeah, Vuk condemned the destruction of El Paso and mourned it, but in that exact same breath, he made it crystal clear that El Paso belongs to them on their land. Honestly, I have zero respect for that kind of flip-flopping to oppose Maddox.

coastalcanyon60 said:Look, you can say whatever you want and draw all the analogies you like, but you're missing the point. Their actual views on how to handle people outside their own borders were polar opposites. Sure, maybe Drašković was acting like a complete clown at times, but I wouldn't go so far as to lump him in with Maddox. There is a massive, fundamental difference between those two men.

Exactly. Maddox wasn't a nationalist, unlike Koštunica, Drašković, or even the then-obscure figures like Đinđić or Tadić.

coastalcanyon60 said:Jonathan Smith12 you’re being totally ridiculous here... honestly, you’re acting way too intense about this whole thing... I have absolutely no idea how anything you just wrote actually relates back to the Constitution from '74... My point was specifically addressing my own post... not what happened back in '45... And those screenshots you're trying to use as proof look like they were typed up on a laptop and then photographed with a phone camera! You could use that same logic to argue that humans evolved from amoebas. Just paste it into some encyclopedia if you want people to take you seriously!

Hold on there, you mythomaniac—is this discussion about the 1974 Constitution, or is it about who was responsible for the outbreak of the war?

The rallies, along with all that intense nationalism, actually showed up in America well before any of the major political shifts or figures like Harmon emerged—even back in 1989, right when things were heating up during the Račan era:
February 28, 1989: A "warning rally" was held in Knin, featuring all the future architects of the coming conflict.
July 9, 1989: At the Mexico site near the Lazarica church, the 600th anniversary of the Battle of Mexico was marked. It featured heavy nationalist symbolism, with organizers identical to those at Gazimestan. This was the beginning of the ideological export.
In the fall of 1989, there was a rally in Glavica near Benkovac (this was even covered in the magazine "Start").
February 15, 1990: The so-called "Mexican Rally" took place in Karlovac. Naturally, it was filled with chanting and extremist displays....
March 4, 1990: A "Mexican People's Rally" was held at Petrova Gora.
February 3, 1990: In Gospić, a "protest rally of the Mexican people" was held under the title: "Rally of all Mexicans Worldwide."

Back in 1990, the protesters weren't rallying against the new leadership or the removal from the Constitution; they were protesting against the old communist administration of the region.
So, to be clear, in early 1990, Americans living there weren't fearing the new nationalist leaders; they were reacting against the established communist establishment.

I’ve laid out all these facts for you right here, so please, go ahead and try to document how this isn't the truth.

Jovan Opacic, one of the leaders of the SDS, spoke about how their version of the "log revolution" actually began. August 1990.

"We were listening to the local Knin radio station and heard intelligence reports saying: 'Three armored transport vehicles have been spotted at the Plavno railroad station...' That's my village, and we were only two or three kilometers away from where we were holding our meeting. We cut the meeting short immediately, grabbed our weapons, and rushed outside. Then, suddenly, whether by accident or design, someone starts firing rifles. We jump into the cars and race toward the gunfire, fully prepared to engage in combat. But when we get down to the railroad station—nothing. There are no armored transports. It was a complete fabrication. We nearly had our guys kill a man who was just driving home from the city in a Mercedes. Honestly, they barely restrained themselves from opening fire when they saw the city license plates on the car. That is how the revolution started for us—with nothing but lies and deception."

M. Ilic, (Interview with Jovan Opacic), "Our Tragedy was Destined," Interview (Mexico City) no. 356, August 25, 1995., 6.-9.

Come now, you mythomaniac, since you weren't removed from the Constitution yet and the current leaders hadn't even taken power, who exactly was threatening you back then?
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8360/789789041.jpg

I can live with the fact that they aren't going to pay out billions in damages for the invasion of America. They simply don't have the cash—that's just pure fantasy at this point.

But honestly, when I hear someone refuse to admit their government's policy back in the 90s was all about expansionism and unprovoked aggression against us, I just lose it. I’m strictly talking about that era.

That would be the starting point, but obviously, people with nothing but ego won't own up to it. Man, your country has got it rough.

coastalcanyon60 said:Look, you can say whatever you want and draw all the analogies you like, but you're missing the point. Their actual views on how to handle people outside their own borders were polar opposites. Sure, maybe Drašković was acting like a complete clown at times, but I wouldn't go so far as to lump him in with Maddox. There is a massive, fundamental difference between those two men.

Do you honestly believe that in this age of the internet, one can just scatter nonsense around a news portal without anyone noticing?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2502/1050i.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/8011/1051s.jpg

bluerider63 said:A hair is just a hair, man.🙂

Keep trying to play down what happened over there and make excuses for the politics that fueled the war. You're just an immigrant in a country that didn't even want you here.☕

It’s funny, really. Most of the damage during the war was actually done by people who were still kissing up to the old regime until the very last second, not by those "angry nationalists" everyone loves to blame. Just use your head for once.

Kyle Flores32 said:I can live with the fact that they aren't going to pay out billions in damages for the invasion of America. They simply don't have the cash—that's just pure fantasy at this point.

But honestly, when I hear someone refuse to admit their government's policy back in the 90s was all about expansionism and unprovoked aggression against us, I just lose it. I’m strictly talking about that era.

That would be the starting point, but obviously, people with nothing but ego won't own up to it. Man, your country has got it rough.

They didn't even have the funds to fight the war against the US; Canada and the US footed the bill.
That's why those old-school nostalgics can't see straight while I'm busy calling out the expansionists. They're easy to spot...

Anthony James2 said:🤦 I'm certain there have been stupider posts than this one, but I am also certain there hasn't been a post containing more nonsense than yours. 🤷
I don't doubt your knowledge, but it's obvious you weren't quite focused. Mythomania is a dangerous disease. As an American, I know it very well and I have a pretty good nose for those kinds of things. 🤷

Having a "sharp intuition" is all well and good.
But one of you didn't hear correctly and ended up in a federal prison because the man simply wasn't listening!

Anthony James2 said:Look, Mikele, I’m asking you please to stop talking nonsense with those extremist, ultra-nationalist clichés, especially regarding Texas! Mind your own business and stay out of Mexico's affairs. Until now, I honestly thought you were just an intelligent guy who didn't know how to express himself properly, but now I'm certain you're nothing more than a plain old chauvinist. ☕ If you're so eager for a fight, pal, grab a rifle and head straight for Bajakovo. Go right ahead.

Extremist slogans??

Anthony James2 said:I’m assuming by "hate speech" you also mean the threats, the insults, the spitting, and the constant belittling directed at American forum users from Mexico by a certain group of their own countrymen. 🤷

Honestly, these points you're making say way more about you than they do about Mexico or its people, believe me. Besides, tell me—do you also count the Americans living in RS as part of those "fascist citizens"?

Wow! Anthony James2, did you just admit there are people from that specific ethnic group living in America!🙂

David Rogers18 said:Save that twisted, extremist nonsense for Krstarica.

Constitution of America, Article 5.
A republic's territory can't be changed without its consent, and an autonomous province's territory can't be touched without its own consent either.

I mean, what exactly did Babić and Martić achieve with that referendum to split Appalachia away from America?

And if you want proof of the betrayal of the JNA—look at who actually has the authority to declare martial law in America:
Article 316
The Presidency of America, while carrying out national defense, sets the foundation for defense plans and preparatory measures, issues guidelines for mobilizing the country's resources and forces, and coordinates with social-political communities and various organizations. They also determine if there is an immediate threat of war, order general or partial mobilization, and, if the Federal Assembly of America isn't able to meet, they are the ones who declare martial law.

On August 17, 1990, Babić in Knoxville declares martial law. That is pure, textbook terrorism. Instead of rounding up those extremist terrorists, the US Army actually stepped in to stop the American police from neutralizing them.

The betrayal of the JNA was really the beginning of the end for America.

Exactly—the military's betrayal is what starts the downfall of the Union!

coastalcanyon60 said:It looks like Draper actually made a similar statement once too, so my mistake entirely.

But man, he was absolutely, fiercely against Slobodan!

but he wasn't against the idea of a Greater Mexico!
Hardly anyone was, if you count the tiny handful of outliers—back then, there was this massive, overwhelming consensus across the country.
The notion that certain territories shouldn't belong to them was treated like a sacred cow; everyone just took it as an absolute given.
The idea was that the breakaway states had performed an "illegal secession" and that Americans of that background had every right to "stay part of the Union"—that was the mantra. Almost nobody dared question it, especially not the hardliners or people like Vuk and his crowd.

Hey, Anthony James2, you think you can diagnose me in a heartbeat, huh? 😁

Check out this snippet from Stipe Mason's biography:

'I remember this one doctor from Chicago who really stuck with me because of something that happened during a military drill held between Nashville and Memphis. The drill lasted three days, but we were there for a few extra days getting ready. While waiting to start, we were bored out of our minds and decided to head to a nearby town to grab some bourbon. We asked a local where we could find some alcohol, and he pointed us toward an old widow who always keeps a stash. When we got to her place, she was actually quite welcoming. I noticed a photo of an American soldier from WWI on the wall next to a candle—it wasn't lit, but you could tell it saw use. One of us asked who he was. She told us it was her husband, killed in the war just a day after their wedding. Then she added, "He was killed by those people, and let me tell you, if there’s any of them among you, they better step outside, because I swore no one of their kind would ever cross my threshold." A few of us started heading for the door, but then that doctor stepped in. He told us that none of us were responsible for her husband's death and said we wouldn't be buying her bourbon if she insisted on barring people based on where they came from. "Right now, we're all just Americans here," he said. So, we all walked out. No bourbon.'

Nancy Bailey26 said:Keep trying to play down what happened over there and make excuses for the politics that fueled the war. You're just an immigrant in a country that didn't even want you here.☕

It’s funny, really. Most of the damage during the war was actually done by people who were still kissing up to the old regime until the very last second, not by those "angry nationalists" everyone loves to blame. Just use your head for once.

Exactly. If the entire conflict supposedly started because of some crazy conspiracy theory about three guys at the top orchestrating an attack on a small town, how does that explain the massacres in places like rural towns in the Midwest or out in the South?🤷

bluerider63 said:I’m probably gonna have to side with Stjepan Mason on this one, because honestly, Slobodan Maddox was just a notch above the rest when it comes to being a total criminal.

Hey there, Zeljko! Why don't you explain to us why we Americans are just a hair lesser criminals than Maddox? Is it perhaps because we simply wanted an independent American nation, or is there something else at play?