Elementary school teachers

James Perez54 said:Regarding grades, I am talking about actual, non-fictional student knowledge (measured by As) and you are intentionally twisting my words.

Who is to blame for the inflation of As and honors? Are parents writing the grades in the report cards? Are they threatening teachers at gunpoint?
You tell me, what's really going on here? 😁

I don't know anyone who pays for tutoring to get an A (sic!), let alone to fix an F.

By the way, I have never encountered such a massive collection of hypocrites, emotional wrecks, insecure people, and frauds (exceptions exist, obviously) as I have within the education system.
Why is that?
Back in my day (I'm 43), anyone who couldn't get into their preferred college (lower-performing students) or couldn't find a high-paying job in their field (unrelated) would regularly end up working in a school, taking out their frustrations on children.
I highly doubt things have improved since then.

No, I am talking about the parents—you know the type—who, the moment their kid gets a grade they aren't thrilled with, head straight to the Department of Education to file a formal complaint... though, naturally, it’s always some carefully curated version of the truth that bears zero resemblance to reality. Then, of course, the authorities send out an inspector to harass and intimidate every single teacher involved. It has happened more times than I care to count—I'm certainly not making this up—and eventually, people just reach a breaking point where they have to cave...

James Perez54 said:Regarding grades, I am talking about actual, non-fictional student knowledge (measured by As) and you are intentionally twisting my words.

Who is to blame for the inflation of As and honors? Are parents writing the grades in the report cards? Are they threatening teachers at gunpoint?
You tell me, what's really going on here? 😁

I don't know anyone who pays for tutoring to get an A (sic!), let alone to fix an F.

By the way, I have never encountered such a massive collection of hypocrites, emotional wrecks, insecure people, and frauds (exceptions exist, obviously) as I have within the education system.
Why is that?
Back in my day (I'm 43), anyone who couldn't get into their preferred college (lower-performing students) or couldn't find a high-paying job in their field (unrelated) would regularly end up working in a school, taking out their frustrations on children.
I highly doubt things have improved since then.

Take me, for instance—I actually had the grades to pursue electrical engineering, but I made a conscious choice to go a different route. I don't carry any complexes or lingering resentments, and I certainly don't take anything out on my kids. Most of the colleagues I know feel the exact same way.

To put it bluntly, you're making massive generalizations based on a handful of outliers, and frankly, it feels like an insult to everyone working hard in this profession. I'm starting to get the impression that you might be the one harboring frustrations here... and perhaps projecting them onto educators (though I truly hope I'm mistaken...).

And just for the record, my program—which only saw 12 graduates out of an initial class of 65—isn't exactly some fallback option for people who couldn't get into a "better" school.

James Perez54 said:Regarding grades, I am talking about actual, non-fictional student knowledge (measured by As) and you are intentionally twisting my words.

Who is to blame for the inflation of As and honors? Are parents writing the grades in the report cards? Are they threatening teachers at gunpoint?
You tell me, what's really going on here? 😁

I don't know anyone who pays for tutoring to get an A (sic!), let alone to fix an F.

By the way, I have never encountered such a massive collection of hypocrites, emotional wrecks, insecure people, and frauds (exceptions exist, obviously) as I have within the education system.
Why is that?
Back in my day (I'm 43), anyone who couldn't get into their preferred college (lower-performing students) or couldn't find a high-paying job in their field (unrelated) would regularly end up working in a school, taking out their frustrations on children.
I highly doubt things have improved since then.

copperheron18 said:Exactly. It is the parents who are constantly hovering over schools, badgering for better marks, pleading, and exerting pressure on professors, lecturing them on why their child "clearly knows more" than the curriculum suggests...

But has it occurred to you that someone might fail because they aren't paying attention, or they talk too much, or they don't concentrate? Are the teachers supposed to be held accountable for those lapses, too?

As for your claim that people enter academia just to vent their frustrations on their children because they failed at everything else—honestly, I have no comment. It sounds so pathological that it borders on being detached from reality. 😕

It seems to me you are projecting your own personal grievances through these insulting remarks toward everyone who is, or will be, an educator. I am genuinely curious: what degree did you earn, and what exactly do you do for a living that allows you to be this vitriolic toward a group of people who actually put in the work to finish their degrees just to serve society?🙄

Oh, sure, so apparently one:
- enrolls in a university,
- passes every single exam,
- completes (and defends) a thesis,
- finishes a residency or internship,
- passes the professional certification exam,
- survives a probationary period,
- undergoes at least two administrative reviews a year,
- deals with one or two inspections from the Department of Education annually,
and does all of that specifically just to take their anger out on children.

Was there really no easier way? This is starting to sound like a conspiracy theory to me. What's next—are teachers secretly reptilians or something?

Some people clearly struggle with basic logic.

Timothy Morris28 said:😲😲😲 So, following that logic, the teacher ought to go out of her way to protect the aggressor, because why should a woman nearing retirement deal with such harassment and fear? By that same flawed reasoning, why would police officers bother arresting criminals or judges bother sentencing them? After all, once those convicts are released, any citizen could simply hunt them down and settle the score themselves.🤷
...I mean, I recognize that the situation is undeniably unpleasant... but there are established systems for a reason. There is a police department for this; a parent who resorts to intimidation should simply be reported to the authorities.🤷

By the time the LAPD actually shows up to take a statement, the teacher is already six feet under—and yes, those kinds of threats are very real.

Nancy Cruz3 said:Just a quick reminder—we’re talking about teachers in elementary schools.

Thanks! 🙂

Let’s try to stay on track.
Much appreciated.

Melissa Gonzalez2 said:Honestly, it feels like quality teachers are becoming a rare breed lately. In my entire time in school, I’ve only ever had maybe two or three educators who actually knew how to teach. I once had a chemistry teacher who just read straight from the textbook; she never actually showed us how to derive formulas, so I never truly grasped the subject. High school was even worse. We were forced to memorize fifteen pages of material just to pass a quiz, like we were some kind of mindless robots. She’d just rattle off the headings and expect us to be like, "blah blah blah," and follow along. Then there was this geography teacher who would just give us a chapter title from the book and tell us to summarize it. She didn't actually lecture at all—she just sat there buzzing away. One history teacher was actually decent, but if you dared to point out a mistake—which I did once because I was always such an overachiever—she’d dock my grade just because I bruised her ego. And don't even get me started on my XYZ class teacher; she’d hand out exams and then basically guarantee everyone a failing grade. It’s just one ridiculous example after another...

On my end, I've actually handed out an A in math a few times specifically because a student caught their own error. See, if they can spot the flaw in their own logic right then and there, it demonstrates true comprehension—maybe even a bit of creative thinking—and in my book, that earns them the top mark.
And, naturally, in every single instance, those students went on to prove they earned it—they nailed the material again, this time by solving it perfectly on the chalkboard in front of the class.
Still, I get plenty of pushback from people claiming I'm too harsh, mostly because I don't just hand out high marks for nothing. But honestly? They need to learn how to stand their ground.

Nancy Cruz3 said:Just a quick reminder—we’re talking about teachers in elementary schools.

Yeah, I'm still waiting. 🙂 I guess I'd like an elementary school teacher—since we’ve had a few join this thread since this topic started—to weigh in on my questions. 🙂

Brenda Ruiz3 said:No, I am talking about the parents—you know the type—who, the moment their kid gets a grade they aren't thrilled with, head straight to the Department of Education to file a formal complaint... though, naturally, it’s always some carefully curated version of the truth that bears zero resemblance to reality. Then, of course, the authorities send out an inspector to harass and intimidate every single teacher involved. It has happened more times than I care to count—I'm certainly not making this up—and eventually, people just reach a breaking point where they have to cave...

But you really think other professions don't deal with inspections? Honestly, my job involves being audited by several different agencies—regularly, and sometimes out of the blue if someone thinks something's off. Every time an inspection happens, I have to drag half the office into it just to gather enough data to document everything I've been doing. It’s not just me getting "harassed," it’s practically half the company. And honestly? Nobody is actually afraid of an audit, as long as you're doing your job right.

Are you saying you think educators and their work shouldn't be subject to any kind of oversight or check-ups at all?

Nancy Cruz3 said:Aside from the topic itself—where plenty of nasty, useless comments have been tossed around—I just felt the need to weigh in on this one specific detail.
Just so we're clear on a few things—

I personally know of plenty of cases where parents have threatened teachers.
It’s true—most of the issues centered on specific teachers in the upper elementary and high school grades—though, granted, there were threats made against some of the female instructors as well.
And that’s only because mommy’s little golden boy can't handle getting anything less than a five.

It all starts small—slashed tires, keys scraping against car paint, threats involving spray-painted front doors, those middle-of-the-night calls... then it escalates to knives being flashed at information desks, and eventually, yes, gun threats and even bringing a bomb onto a school campus.

Just so you have some idea of what people actually tolerate—before you decide to make fun of it again next time.
Smart move.

Look, genius...

Nobody is claiming there aren't unstable parents who threaten teachers (just like there are unstable ex-husbands or veterans out there, etc.), but it isn't nearly as common an occurrence as you're making it out to be. 😁

The issue with handed-out grades starts when a teacher gives an A to little Timmy because his mom is a nurse at the local hospital, or to little Jane because her dad works for some government agency, for example...
Then someone does a sweep through the school, and another kid's mom kicks up a massive fuss about the injustice, so that same teacher settles things by giving her kid a free grade too, and so it goes, and so it goes...

If you give a handout to one student (whether it's for your own benefit or because of pressure from above), then you have to give it to the next one whose parent is constantly badgering you for information.

Because what other logic does a parent have to demand an unearned grade for their child? It's simply the logic of "If you gave Timmy an undeserved grade, then you better give it to my kid too."
Wouldn't it be much easier for a teacher if they had a clear conscience, opened up the gradebook, showed the parent the grades for their child versus a top student, and honestly explained why the child hasn't earned an A?

But... the vast majority of teachers are under constant pressure; they fear the confrontation and find it easier to just toss in another handout grade (one more here or there doesn't seem to matter much).
Yet, on the flip side, they are full of praise regarding their own integrity, principles, and dignity. 🙄

copperheron18 said:Look, there is a massive gap between what happened 30 or 40 years ago and what is happening today; any rational person can see that. Back in the day, a professor was highly respected—a doctor was even more so. People used to bring gifts (bribes, let's call them 😁) because those professions were held in the highest esteem. You had the elite tier: the teacher, the doctor, the lawyer. You simply cannot compare the past to the present while my sister-in-law is working now. So much has shifted in the interim—economic instability, social shifts—which has left many people on edge, causing them to lash out at anyone within reach. The current state of society is just different, and while it affects teachers heavily because they deal with such diverse groups, it isn't limited to them.

It is not the same thing to be a teacher at a prestigious prep school where the kids are decent, actually want to learn, pay attention, care about their grades, and come from educated, cultured families. It's an entirely different universe compared to teaching at a three-year vocational school populated mostly by delinquents who lack basic vocabulary, manners, or any sense of decorum.

Middle schools are essentially a volatile mix of both extremes, and no one can dispute that. Being a teacher at a top-tier academy (specifically the one I attended, though many others are similar) is, in my opinion, a fantastic career. But being a teacher at some vocational school (I won't name names to avoid offense) is 🙂

I know several teachers, some working in elementary schools and others in high schools.
None of them ever had parents threatening them, but early in their careers, they definitely dealt with principals saying things like, "You need to give this student an A, unless you're looking for trouble at work?!"

Later on, they say, they learned what "the rules" actually look like.😁
And that you shouldn't play games with the job.

Brenda Ruiz3 said:No, I am talking about the parents—you know the type—who, the moment their kid gets a grade they aren't thrilled with, head straight to the Department of Education to file a formal complaint... though, naturally, it’s always some carefully curated version of the truth that bears zero resemblance to reality. Then, of course, the authorities send out an inspector to harass and intimidate every single teacher involved. It has happened more times than I care to count—I'm certainly not making this up—and eventually, people just reach a breaking point where they have to cave...

Why on earth should they cave if they're doing their jobs honestly?

What is the inspection so afraid of now? Some crazy "helicopter parent" throwing a tantrum, or is it something else?🤣

Brenda Ruiz3 said:On my end, I've actually handed out an A in math a few times specifically because a student caught their own error. See, if they can spot the flaw in their own logic right then and there, it demonstrates true comprehension—maybe even a bit of creative thinking—and in my book, that earns them the top mark.
And, naturally, in every single instance, those students went on to prove they earned it—they nailed the material again, this time by solving it perfectly on the chalkboard in front of the class.
Still, I get plenty of pushback from people claiming I'm too harsh, mostly because I don't just hand out high marks for nothing. But honestly? They need to learn how to stand their ground.

Would you have the guts to say that to the Principal, face-to-face in his office, if he pulled you aside and told you that you were handing out unearned A's based on your own little criteria?

James Perez54 said:Look, genius...

Nobody is claiming there aren't unstable parents who threaten teachers (just like there are unstable ex-husbands or veterans out there, etc.), but it isn't nearly as common an occurrence as you're making it out to be. 😁

The issue with handed-out grades starts when a teacher gives an A to little Timmy because his mom is a nurse at the local hospital, or to little Jane because her dad works for some government agency, for example...
Then someone does a sweep through the school, and another kid's mom kicks up a massive fuss about the injustice, so that same teacher settles things by giving her kid a free grade too, and so it goes, and so it goes...

If you give a handout to one student (whether it's for your own benefit or because of pressure from above), then you have to give it to the next one whose parent is constantly badgering you for information.

Because what other logic does a parent have to demand an unearned grade for their child? It's simply the logic of "If you gave Timmy an undeserved grade, then you better give it to my kid too."
Wouldn't it be much easier for a teacher if they had a clear conscience, opened up the gradebook, showed the parent the grades for their child versus a top student, and honestly explained why the child hasn't earned an A?

But... the vast majority of teachers are under constant pressure; they fear the confrontation and find it easier to just toss in another handout grade (one more here or there doesn't seem to matter much).
Yet, on the flip side, they are full of praise regarding their own integrity, principles, and dignity. 🙄

In my middle school, things were a total disaster regarding this sort of thing. My class was full of kids with connections: one had a grandmother who was a former teacher at that very school, another had a father who was a CEO, a third came from a family that struck it rich overnight, and a fourth had a mother working in Washington... plus a few others. We had teachers who would directly pad their grades based on "participation" or other arbitrary metrics. Some kids would pull a D or an F on their actual exams, only to end up with an A on their final report card. Then there were the milder cases where they'd give them a quick verbal quiz at the end of the year just to justify bumping them up to an A for the sake of it. It was awful. Though, I suppose not every school in the US is like that.

Oh, and just to add a final note: despite all those high scores and being enrolled in prestigious prep schools thanks to those inflated points, absolutely none of those kids actually maintained their straight-A status once they got there.🙄

James Perez54 said:Look, genius...

Nobody is claiming there aren't unstable parents who threaten teachers (just like there are unstable ex-husbands or veterans out there, etc.), but it isn't nearly as common an occurrence as you're making it out to be. 😁

The issue with handed-out grades starts when a teacher gives an A to little Timmy because his mom is a nurse at the local hospital, or to little Jane because her dad works for some government agency, for example...
Then someone does a sweep through the school, and another kid's mom kicks up a massive fuss about the injustice, so that same teacher settles things by giving her kid a free grade too, and so it goes, and so it goes...

If you give a handout to one student (whether it's for your own benefit or because of pressure from above), then you have to give it to the next one whose parent is constantly badgering you for information.

Because what other logic does a parent have to demand an unearned grade for their child? It's simply the logic of "If you gave Timmy an undeserved grade, then you better give it to my kid too."
Wouldn't it be much easier for a teacher if they had a clear conscience, opened up the gradebook, showed the parent the grades for their child versus a top student, and honestly explained why the child hasn't earned an A?

But... the vast majority of teachers are under constant pressure; they fear the confrontation and find it easier to just toss in another handout grade (one more here or there doesn't seem to matter much).
Yet, on the flip side, they are full of praise regarding their own integrity, principles, and dignity. 🙄

This discussion has drifted way off-topic, so I don't feel like responding to every single point, but I do want to tell you: regarding threats against teachers, you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
A woman very close to me works as a teacher in an elementary school in Chicago.
Over the last three generations of her career, she has dealt with at least one parent threatening physical harm—to her or those close to her.

She just finished some inspection triggered by false complaints about her work, and every single accusation was dismissed.

And now I watch her come out of it feeling shamed, exhausted, and drained, while the people who intentionally tried to sabotage her face zero consequences. The only thing she can do is file a private lawsuit for defamation. And what do you think—can she afford that on a teacher's salary?

It’s actually been on my mind lately: could I personally be as strong and principled as she is? Looking over my shoulder every time I walk home, checking the color of my front door, changing my phone number... I'm starting to realize my metaphorical balls are much smaller than hers.

The system has left teachers completely unprotected.
And while our esteemed officials busy themselves with nonsense like CNN, the system continues to degrade. Honestly, I wonder when we'll finally hit rock bottom so things can finally start looking up.

CNN is dead😁
Up until now, we’ve been stuck with the same old curriculum😁
But once the New Administration takes over, they’ll just cook up some third ridiculous version and force us to start from scratch all over again☕

Honestly, it’s getting to the point where nobody even knows who’s calling the shots anymore..
Every single time we get a new Secretary of Education, they come running in with a bunch of "groundbreaking" ideas that, naturally, cost us a fortune, and just when you finally feel like you've got a handle on the system—boom—here comes another expensive shake-up...

Calling all moms!! I’m running a little study and would love your input. What kind of teachers do your kids actually want? I'm trying to get a real sense of what they're thinking. 🙂

Matthew Cooper5 said:Calling all moms!! I’m running a little study and would love your input. What kind of teachers do your kids actually want? I'm trying to get a real sense of what they're thinking. 🙂

That they don't yell at them or make fun of them in front of the class.

And that they're fair when it comes to grading.

This is exactly what my son wanted back when he had his teacher.

James Perez54 said:That they don't yell at them or make fun of them in front of the class.

And that they're fair when it comes to grading.

This is exactly what my son wanted back when he had his teacher.

To make things actually fair, we need to overhaul the entire grading system.☕ Here we go again.

It looks like nothing in our school system has changed at all.🙄 And that was right when I finished school.😳😁 Someone even mentioned that rapid tests are still being used around here.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading...
It’s just a collective smear campaign against our entire education system...
At this rate, we might as well just scrap public schools entirely and let every parent teach their kid whatever they personally deem useful.