All-day school schedules

jadetinker85 said:So you’re fine with IT staff and after-school program workers getting laid off while elementary teachers are stuck on an 8 to 3:30 grind? You think it's okay that things like classroom management, extra stipends, and prep time are just lumped under "miscellaneous duties," or that monitoring duty during lunch breaks counts for absolutely nothing?
And don't even get me started on music academies, sports clubs, or the kids whose parents are working the afternoon shifts.

IT staff getting fired? In which school? In my town, there are only five schools out of thirty that even offer an after-school program. We’re talking about maybe fifteen teachers total who all get assigned to schools within a ten-mile radius in the same year.
Go check how teaching hours are calculated in New York City versus the rest of Europe—is it really just 45 plus 15? And yeah, sure, everything is "great" out there. Those people make five times the salary, they don't deal with the endless paperwork, and they don't have kids jumping through the hallways without any supervision—unless, of course, we’ve hired little green aliens to watch them.

Paul Davis2 said:IT staff getting fired? In which school? In my town, there are only five schools out of thirty that even offer an after-school program. We’re talking about maybe fifteen teachers total who all get assigned to schools within a ten-mile radius in the same year.
Go check how teaching hours are calculated in New York City versus the rest of Europe—is it really just 45 plus 15? And yeah, sure, everything is "great" out there. Those people make five times the salary, they don't deal with the endless paperwork, and they don't have kids jumping through the hallways without any supervision—unless, of course, we’ve hired little green aliens to watch them.

Look, the math is simple. As an accountant, you should see that. They only have mandatory classes in 5th and 6th grade; everything else is elective stuff filling the schedule from 1st through 8th grade. If you cut just one hour from those electives, their entire teaching load disappears.

Paul Davis2 said:IT staff getting fired? In which school? In my town, there are only five schools out of thirty that even offer an after-school program. We’re talking about maybe fifteen teachers total who all get assigned to schools within a ten-mile radius in the same year.
Go check how teaching hours are calculated in New York City versus the rest of Europe—is it really just 45 plus 15? And yeah, sure, everything is "great" out there. Those people make five times the salary, they don't deal with the endless paperwork, and they don't have kids jumping through the hallways without any supervision—unless, of course, we’ve hired little green aliens to watch them.

In the area, 6.2 miles there will be 15 openings for elementary teachers? Are that many actually retiring?

Paul Davis2 said:IT staff getting fired? In which school? In my town, there are only five schools out of thirty that even offer an after-school program. We’re talking about maybe fifteen teachers total who all get assigned to schools within a ten-mile radius in the same year.
Go check how teaching hours are calculated in New York City versus the rest of Europe—is it really just 45 plus 15? And yeah, sure, everything is "great" out there. Those people make five times the salary, they don't deal with the endless paperwork, and they don't have kids jumping through the hallways without any supervision—unless, of course, we’ve hired little green aliens to watch them.

They aren't exactly running wild, but that duty time they spend monitoring hallways does count toward their official working hours.
And here's the kicker—during breaks, they aren't even required to be on campus, and nobody’s really gone out of their way to "design meaningful tasks" for those eleven weeks of downtime.

jadetinker85 said:Look, the math is simple. As an accountant, you should see that. They only have mandatory classes in 5th and 6th grade; everything else is elective stuff filling the schedule from 1st through 8th grade. If you cut just one hour from those electives, their entire teaching load disappears.

Poor IT guys—they're basically fighting for scraps at this point.

Sarah Hall53 said:They aren't exactly running wild, but that duty time they spend monitoring hallways does count toward their official working hours.
And here's the kicker—during breaks, they aren't even required to be on campus, and nobody’s really gone out of their way to "design meaningful tasks" for those eleven weeks of downtime.

Look, I've worked in an American elementary school, and what you're describing sounds like a bit of an idealized version of how things work elsewhere. It's the old cliché—the grass always looks greener on the other side.

Kenneth Garcia9 said:In the area, 6.2 miles there will be 15 openings for elementary teachers? Are that many actually retiring?

Yeah—within the 6.2 miles district alone, there are 50 elementary schools, and if you look at the broader 19 miles region, there are another 10 (so we’re talking over 60 total). Every single school needs at least two, three, or four teachers—just do the math. You'll see more than 15 teachers cycling through the system every year. If those jobs weren't being filled, education programs would be shutting down entirely.

If the folks over at the Department had actually used their heads and started by investing in school infrastructure—you know, making sure buildings are actually functional, providing decent hot meals, and offering after-school programs for any student whose parents want them—they would have actually won people over. They might have even earned some public trust. And if, *after* doing all that heavy lifting, they had actually sat down with teachers to bake their input into the full-day school proposal, this whole thing wouldn't be such an absolute train wreck. It might have actually worked in some capacity! But instead, they’re trying to build a house starting with the roof. It’s just not going to fly. Any school smart enough to join this pilot program will grab that funding and use it to upgrade their facilities, which is great. But unfortunately, the students—who end up feeling more like prisoners than kids—are the ones who'll pay the price.

hiddendriver34 said:If the folks over at the Department had actually used their heads and started by investing in school infrastructure—you know, making sure buildings are actually functional, providing decent hot meals, and offering after-school programs for any student whose parents want them—they would have actually won people over. They might have even earned some public trust. And if, *after* doing all that heavy lifting, they had actually sat down with teachers to bake their input into the full-day school proposal, this whole thing wouldn't be such an absolute train wreck. It might have actually worked in some capacity! But instead, they’re trying to build a house starting with the roof. It’s just not going to fly. Any school smart enough to join this pilot program will grab that funding and use it to upgrade their facilities, which is great. But unfortunately, the students—who end up feeling more like prisoners than kids—are the ones who'll pay the price.

How exactly is an 8th grader going to "pay the price"? They'll be stuck at school until 3:00 PM instead of leaving at 1:30 PM—plus having to deal with PE or computer lab in a different shift. They'll be forced to eat a free hot meal and then a snack. What, is someone going to sit there and tutor them in chemistry? Poor kids, really.

Paul Davis2 said:Look, I've worked in an American elementary school, and what you're describing sounds like a bit of an idealized version of how things work elsewhere. It's the old cliché—the grass always looks greener on the other side.

I mean, it really depends on where you were working. Saying "outside the US" covers basically the entire rest of the world—it's too broad. I know people who worked in an elementary school in England and they ran for the hills as fast as they could. Then again, I know folks working in Germany or Austria who are doing just fine. I even know people who moved to Sweden and would genuinely rather be cleaning stairwells or digging ditches than deal with teaching—and they're fully qualified! They tell me they feel more respected as sanitation workers than as educators. But then there are those working in France or Belgium who have absolutely zero intention of ever coming back.

Sarah Hall53 said:I mean, it really depends on where you were working. Saying "outside the US" covers basically the entire rest of the world—it's too broad. I know people who worked in an elementary school in England and they ran for the hills as fast as they could. Then again, I know folks working in Germany or Austria who are doing just fine. I even know people who moved to Sweden and would genuinely rather be cleaning stairwells or digging ditches than deal with teaching—and they're fully qualified! They tell me they feel more respected as sanitation workers than as educators. But then there are those working in France or Belgium who have absolutely zero intention of ever coming back.

Well, I don't speak French, so I guess I'll pass on the "digging ditches" option.

Paul Davis2 said:How exactly is an 8th grader going to "pay the price"? They'll be stuck at school until 3:00 PM instead of leaving at 1:30 PM—plus having to deal with PE or computer lab in a different shift. They'll be forced to eat a free hot meal and then a snack. What, is someone going to sit there and tutor them in chemistry? Poor kids, really.

Nobody is going to sit there and tutor them in chemistry because this "enrichment" program only happens once a month—and even then, it’s just one crowded classroom with 20 kids packed in together. You've got Ivy, who's on the autism spectrum, screaming and slamming his hands on the desk for the last two hours because everything is just too much for him, and his aide isn't even scheduled to stay past noon. Then you've got Mark just throwing crumpled paper everywhere because he couldn't care less about chemistry, Anna and Mia are constantly giggling in the back, and Tea is always interrupting with random questions...
and the teacher doesn't get paid a single cent extra to prepare for "chemistry tutoring" with a group of 20 students, so they're basically a fool if they try to prep anything at all. So, sorry kids, just finish your worksheets while I click through checkboxes and fill out spreadsheets. ☕

Paul Davis2 said:How exactly is an 8th grader going to "pay the price"? They'll be stuck at school until 3:00 PM instead of leaving at 1:30 PM—plus having to deal with PE or computer lab in a different shift. They'll be forced to eat a free hot meal and then a snack. What, is someone going to sit there and tutor them in chemistry? Poor kids, really.

Oh, please. They aren't "poor things"—this is actually a total win for them. 🙄

These clueless parents, for instance, don't realize their kids just hit the jackpot. Honestly, they're being completely ridiculous.

Sarah Hall53 said:Nobody is going to sit there and tutor them in chemistry because this "enrichment" program only happens once a month—and even then, it’s just one crowded classroom with 20 kids packed in together. You've got Ivy, who's on the autism spectrum, screaming and slamming his hands on the desk for the last two hours because everything is just too much for him, and his aide isn't even scheduled to stay past noon. Then you've got Mark just throwing crumpled paper everywhere because he couldn't care less about chemistry, Anna and Mia are constantly giggling in the back, and Tea is always interrupting with random questions...
and the teacher doesn't get paid a single cent extra to prepare for "chemistry tutoring" with a group of 20 students, so they're basically a fool if they try to prep anything at all. So, sorry kids, just finish your worksheets while I click through checkboxes and fill out spreadsheets. ☕

What do you mean it's not paid?
An 8th grader on the autism spectrum doesn't just spend his day screaming. Besides, Ivy doesn't even have an aide anymore—he hasn't had one since 6th grade because he functions just fine. That's my take based on knowing Ivy personally; clearly, your experience has been much rougher. If he couldn't handle things, he wouldn't be in this class to begin with.

I can only speak from what I've seen firsthand—Sweden is seriously struggling right now when it comes to finding professors of any kind.
The UK is fantastic if you’re looking at private schools, but those standard public institutions? They just aren't all that appealing to someone holding a Master's degree.

But let’s be real here—I haven't experienced a single place where being a professor is treated like some prestigious, highly respected profession, unfortunately.

Maybe it's different in Finland, but I can't really go by what I read in the news; I haven't actually been there myself.

hiddendriver34 said:Oh, please. They aren't "poor things"—this is actually a total win for them. 🙄

These clueless parents, for instance, don't realize their kids just hit the jackpot. Honestly, they're being completely ridiculous.

I'm with you there. We need to shorten the school day, boost actual learning and student happiness, cut back the paperwork, move special education programs elsewhere, and—most importantly—raise teacher salaries.

Paul Davis2 said:I'm with you there. We need to shorten the school day, boost actual learning and student happiness, cut back the paperwork, move special education programs elsewhere, and—most importantly—raise teacher salaries.

Is it just you, or do some people literally just plug their ears and sing "la la la" whenever someone tries to make a point? Honestly, no biggie, but I’d rather know now so we don't waste our breath typing away at nothing. 👍

Paul Davis2 said:What do you mean it's not paid?
An 8th grader on the autism spectrum doesn't just spend his day screaming. Besides, Ivy doesn't even have an aide anymore—he hasn't had one since 6th grade because he functions just fine. That's my take based on knowing Ivy personally; clearly, your experience has been much rougher. If he couldn't handle things, he wouldn't be in this class to begin with.

Honestly, every kid like him in the schools I worked at was screaming from 1st through 8th grade. They had aides from start to finish, and the parents? They flat-out refused to even consider that their kids might not belong in a mainstream classroom. And look, if you don't have the parents on your side, you're basically screwed.
I remember this one student, Peric, who had an intellectual disability and was supposed to follow a specialized curriculum, but his parents fought tooth and nail against moving him to a school with dedicated special education departments. So, we ended up with our completely untrained teachers trying to "work" with him... sort of. Meanwhile, he’s just lying under a desk, whimpering. And that went on for eight years.

As for those A2 prep sessions, come on—show me where in the documentation it actually specifies exactly how many hours of prep time are credited to teachers for A2. ☕

hiddendriver34 said:Is it just you, or do some people literally just plug their ears and sing "la la la" whenever someone tries to make a point? Honestly, no biggie, but I’d rather know now so we don't waste our breath typing away at nothing. 👍

kind of like a fox 😂

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, every kid like him in the schools I worked at was screaming from 1st through 8th grade. They had aides from start to finish, and the parents? They flat-out refused to even consider that their kids might not belong in a mainstream classroom. And look, if you don't have the parents on your side, you're basically screwed.
I remember this one student, Peric, who had an intellectual disability and was supposed to follow a specialized curriculum, but his parents fought tooth and nail against moving him to a school with dedicated special education departments. So, we ended up with our completely untrained teachers trying to "work" with him... sort of. Meanwhile, he’s just lying under a desk, whimpering. And that went on for eight years.

As for those A2 prep sessions, come on—show me where in the documentation it actually specifies exactly how many hours of prep time are credited to teachers for A2. ☕

It's 40 minus 25. So, that leaves 15 hours for administration and prep.