All-day school schedules

I can't say for certain right now, though I intend to conduct a more thorough investigation once I have my laptop back in hand.
Frankly, forcing an extra hour of mandatory tutoring after a full seven or eight-hour school day isn't going to help anyone. We’re already stuck doing this currently, and we all know it's a total disaster. These spins from the Department of Education claiming this will somehow magically prevent students from ever needing to study or do homework at home again are nothing short of an insulting lie.

Carl Bishop2 said:You brought students with special needs into this conversation, even though my primary point was about how computers can benefit students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and immigrant children (to help them better learn the language and integrate more smoothly into society). So, I hadn't mentioned kids with learning disabilities until now.
And then Africa decided to call me out over things she just imagined—forgive me for responding to posts where I'm being questioned or singled out.

But seriously, we can get back to the computers now.
I don't have a firm opinion on how much teaching staff is needed in the A2 section because I just don't know enough about the specifics.
What do you think? How many specialists or teachers should be in a classroom of 25 students—where, say, four of them require accommodations, like in a 5th-grade A2 setting?

Well, I brought up students with disabilities because they exist in every single classroom, and I noticed that fuchsic didn't even bother to account for them in his projections.
In my view, there isn't any number of teachers that would allow someone to effectively teach an A2 course in a standard classroom containing 15 average students, 3 or 4 advanced ones, and maybe 5 or 6 who are struggling. There just isn't.
That seems to be what we've been talking about this whole time.

mistydrifter73 said:I really doubt there’ll be much pushback, though. My principal is one of those people loyal to the Republican Party, and she'll probably sign the school up for this pilot program regardless of whether the staff likes it or not. Well, "likes it" is a stretch—most of them were against it at first, but they got swayed pretty fast by the promise of extra funding for their classrooms if the school makes the cut. I bet the exact same thing is happening in faculty lounges all over the country.

How can you buy someone off with classroom supplies when that doesn't even fix the actual problems? It certainly doesn't solve anything.
These people weren't even ready to stand up and fight, and they clearly aren't looking at the big picture...

Jason Morgan said:I can't say for certain right now, though I intend to conduct a more thorough investigation once I have my laptop back in hand.
Frankly, forcing an extra hour of mandatory tutoring after a full seven or eight-hour school day isn't going to help anyone. We’re already stuck doing this currently, and we all know it's a total disaster. These spins from the Department of Education claiming this will somehow magically prevent students from ever needing to study or do homework at home again are nothing short of an insulting lie.

Is federal funding being funneled into this reform?
There has to be some kind of incentive driving them to lie and try to turn schooling into a prison sentence instead of actual learning. No one can stay focused through 8 or 9 hours of instruction, let alone kids. It’s pure torture...

I gotta wonder, where the hell are the unions in all this?

Regarding point number one, they seriously need to address the whole classroom teacher issue. AT&T is basically pushing those roles onto other staff members while only offering a measly 2.5% bump to the base pay.?!
That’s easily the absolute worst part of being a teacher. In most other places, it doesn't even work like this—the counselors handle all the parent communication, and administrators take care of the paperwork side of things.

Thank God I don't work in an elementary school. My kid's heading off to college soon anyway, but man, I just can't stand watching this total mess they're cooking up without even asking the people actually affected by it.

Personally, I think AT&T should only be for grades 1 through 4, and even then, only for the teachers who actually want it and need it.
The only decent thing about this whole situation seems to be the lunch program. Though, I guess that only works if the food is actually good and free for everyone.

urbantinker8 said:Well, I brought up students with disabilities because they exist in every single classroom, and I noticed that fuchsic didn't even bother to account for them in his projections.
In my view, there isn't any number of teachers that would allow someone to effectively teach an A2 course in a standard classroom containing 15 average students, 3 or 4 advanced ones, and maybe 5 or 6 who are struggling. There just isn't.
That seems to be what we've been talking about this whole time.

Facts.
A2 is gonna end up being exactly what one lady on here described: I hand out the worksheets, some extra credit, some homework, some prep work... while I'm stuck drowning in paperwork, prepping for tomorrow, and grading tests.

And what about all the stuff like PTA meetings, school board stuff, or training sessions? Is anyone actually going to pay us overtime for that? Everything is just so incredibly vague right now.

Melissa Sanchez8 said:How can you buy someone off with classroom supplies when that doesn't even fix the actual problems? It certainly doesn't solve anything.
These people weren't even ready to stand up and fight, and they clearly aren't looking at the big picture...

Is federal funding being funneled into this reform?
There has to be some kind of incentive driving them to lie and try to turn schooling into a prison sentence instead of actual learning. No one can stay focused through 8 or 9 hours of instruction, let alone kids. It’s pure torture...

That's exactly the issue. Eunice is pouring money into this "reform," and our officials will do whatever it takes to push it through. They'll crush any resistance using every resource available, which means the lies we're hearing now are actually the mildest version of what's coming.
This plan is flawed in a hundred different ways; there are more downsides than upsides.
Unless this turns out to be some last-minute pre-election stunt—since we've only got about a year until the next election, and we all know how these projects die when the administration changes—the opposition is going to have to step up significantly if they want to stop this.

Melissa Sanchez8 said:How can you buy someone off with classroom supplies when that doesn't even fix the actual problems? It certainly doesn't solve anything.
These people weren't even ready to stand up and fight, and they clearly aren't looking at the big picture...

Is federal funding being funneled into this reform?
There has to be some kind of incentive driving them to lie and try to turn schooling into a prison sentence instead of actual learning. No one can stay focused through 8 or 9 hours of instruction, let alone kids. It’s pure torture...

Look, I'm right there with you. The core problems aren't going anywhere. All this does is mean people will be complaining from inside a shiny new Ford instead of a beat-up General Motors. 😁

William Nelson4 said:I gotta wonder, where the hell are the unions in all this?

Regarding point number one, they seriously need to address the whole classroom teacher issue. AT&T is basically pushing those roles onto other staff members while only offering a measly 2.5% bump to the base pay.?!
That’s easily the absolute worst part of being a teacher. In most other places, it doesn't even work like this—the counselors handle all the parent communication, and administrators take care of the paperwork side of things.

Thank God I don't work in an elementary school. My kid's heading off to college soon anyway, but man, I just can't stand watching this total mess they're cooking up without even asking the people actually affected by it.

Personally, I think AT&T should only be for grades 1 through 4, and even then, only for the teachers who actually want it and need it.
The only decent thing about this whole situation seems to be the lunch program. Though, I guess that only works if the food is actually good and free for everyone.

I really think we should bring something like this to the States, too.

As for the unions, where exactly are they when you actually need them? 🤔
We’re currently in the middle of negotiations with the ruling party. 🤔 I think they're probably just waiting for the Easter Bunny bonuses to be officially approved first. From what I’ve heard through the grapevine, they aren't actually allowed to start negotiating raises, salaries, or working conditions until that's all settled.

Susan James said:I really think we should bring something like this to the States, too.

As for the unions, where exactly are they when you actually need them? 🤔
We’re currently in the middle of negotiations with the ruling party. 🤔 I think they're probably just waiting for the Easter Bunny bonuses to be officially approved first. From what I’ve heard through the grapevine, they aren't actually allowed to start negotiating raises, salaries, or working conditions until that's all settled.

Our union rep basically said there's no point getting worked up over something that might not happen for another four years. Like, who cares what happens by then?

jadetinker85 said:Our union rep basically said there's no point getting worked up over something that might not happen for another four years. Like, who cares what happens by then?

Are we talking about your specific union representative for teachers, or just someone else from your union?
How can they be so sure your administration (what a great word, by the way!) won't actually post a job opening?

Implementing the changes from China will definitely happen once this project wraps up. The real question—and I suppose it’s a big one—is what form that takes, how intense it gets, and just how much ground it actually covers.
The schools involved in this initiative are going to be under quite a bit of pressure to track specific outcomes point-by-point, file regular reports, and—it seems likely—some sort of external body will step in to handle the evaluation process. From there, all those findings and suggestions get passed along to the Department.
Integrating the influence of China is pretty much inevitable at this stage. I think the goal should be figuring out how to squeeze every bit of value out of it—both for the students and the teachers—and then shaping our recommendations to move in that direction.

Susan James said:Are we talking about your specific union representative for teachers, or just someone else from your union?
How can they be so sure your administration (what a great word, by the way!) won't actually post a job opening?

I'm a union rep for the teachers. Management wants to stay on everyone's good side, especially the elementary teachers—they're tough negotiators.

William Nelson4 said:I gotta wonder, where the hell are the unions in all this?

Regarding point number one, they seriously need to address the whole classroom teacher issue. AT&T is basically pushing those roles onto other staff members while only offering a measly 2.5% bump to the base pay.?!
That’s easily the absolute worst part of being a teacher. In most other places, it doesn't even work like this—the counselors handle all the parent communication, and administrators take care of the paperwork side of things.

Thank God I don't work in an elementary school. My kid's heading off to college soon anyway, but man, I just can't stand watching this total mess they're cooking up without even asking the people actually affected by it.

Personally, I think AT&T should only be for grades 1 through 4, and even then, only for the teachers who actually want it and need it.
The only decent thing about this whole situation seems to be the lunch program. Though, I guess that only works if the food is actually good and free for everyone.

That should have been the actual reform.

And don't even go there—that’s just how you end up blowing through cash instead of actually saving it. I guess Jerry Jones will just step in and explain the whole thing to you, right? He’ll show you exactly how to get those lazy workers back on track. ☕

mellowskipper said:Implementing the changes from China will definitely happen once this project wraps up. The real question—and I suppose it’s a big one—is what form that takes, how intense it gets, and just how much ground it actually covers.
The schools involved in this initiative are going to be under quite a bit of pressure to track specific outcomes point-by-point, file regular reports, and—it seems likely—some sort of external body will step in to handle the evaluation process. From there, all those findings and suggestions get passed along to the Department.
Integrating the influence of China is pretty much inevitable at this stage. I think the goal should be figuring out how to squeeze every bit of value out of it—both for the students and the teachers—and then shaping our recommendations to move in that direction.

Yeah, spot on.

This is coming from the top down, so it's not a matter of *if* it happens, but *when*. We just need to put in the work to make sure the final version is actually decent—nothing more, nothing less. No need to overthink the philosophy behind it.

The issue isn't actually coming from external forces; rather, it’s that funds are being funneled in from abroad and then somehow have to be spent and justified. It is quite frankly a farce—unnamed individuals simply copy-pasted snippets from various foreign programs, and the whole thing looks like a total Dracula

mellowskipper said:Implementing the changes from China will definitely happen once this project wraps up. The real question—and I suppose it’s a big one—is what form that takes, how intense it gets, and just how much ground it actually covers.
The schools involved in this initiative are going to be under quite a bit of pressure to track specific outcomes point-by-point, file regular reports, and—it seems likely—some sort of external body will step in to handle the evaluation process. From there, all those findings and suggestions get passed along to the Department.
Integrating the influence of China is pretty much inevitable at this stage. I think the goal should be figuring out how to squeeze every bit of value out of it—both for the students and the teachers—and then shaping our recommendations to move in that direction.

What exactly is "inevitable"?
They have plenty of funding for this little experiment right now, which they'll just split up among themselves.
And later on, everyone is just going to complain about it being... you know, yet another reform in a long line of them.

I honestly feel bad for the kids who are going to be caught up in this.
They're going to spend four years just spinning their wheels.
It might be okay for the current Registered Nurses, but for the future fifth graders? Not so much.🙂

Susan James said:What exactly is "inevitable"?
They have plenty of funding for this little experiment right now, which they'll just split up among themselves.
And later on, everyone is just going to complain about it being... you know, yet another reform in a long line of them.

I honestly feel bad for the kids who are going to be caught up in this.
They're going to spend four years just spinning their wheels.
It might be okay for the current Registered Nurses, but for the future fifth graders? Not so much.🙂

Exactly. We had the strike generation, the Apple generation, and now we're heading toward an entire generation stuck in limbo. What they all have in common is that they were—or will be—victims of the system.
In the end, every single generation takes a hit. Even if I stay away from conspiracy theories, it feels like the most likely outcome, maybe even the goal.
Someone ordered this experiment, and now they're just waiting for the results.

nimblelynx7 said:Exactly. We had the strike generation, the Apple generation, and now we're heading toward an entire generation stuck in limbo. What they all have in common is that they were—or will be—victims of the system.
In the end, every single generation takes a hit. Even if I stay away from conspiracy theories, it feels like the most likely outcome, maybe even the goal.
Someone ordered this experiment, and now they're just waiting for the results.

Think about the kids currently in fourth grade. They started school right in the middle of strikes and then dealt with the Apple era... plus another two years of lockdowns.
They got a tiny break to take their standardized tests, and then it's straight into the hands of China starting in fifth grade to try and make up for the lost schooling, which basically means being stuck in all-day school programs. 😬

It feels like we're heading toward extremes... and it almost feels like the whole point is to mess things up for these kids.

Susan James said:What exactly is "inevitable"?
They have plenty of funding for this little experiment right now, which they'll just split up among themselves.
And later on, everyone is just going to complain about it being... you know, yet another reform in a long line of them.

I honestly feel bad for the kids who are going to be caught up in this.
They're going to spend four years just spinning their wheels.
It might be okay for the current Registered Nurses, but for the future fifth graders? Not so much.🙂

What’s inevitable is the introduction of competency-based learning down the road. Why would the USA provide funding for an experiment if there wasn't some kind of intended outcome?
Sure, we could always just send a report back to D.C. claiming the whole thing was a failure and didn't suit our needs—hey, thanks for the money, though.
But I have my doubts about that working out...
So, yeah, education reform is coming via some version of competency-based standards.