All-day school schedules

rowdypanther12, we’re really getting down into the weeds here, and honestly, listening to those "arguments" you keep bringing up feels a bit like watching a Fox News segment.
just to be clear, personally, when it comes to my job (so thanks for that little jab you mentioned), CN doesn't really affect me at all.
but, on a personal level? yeah, it concerns me immensely.
I’ve gone through the proposals, and I have to say, I was actually pretty horrified by all the gaps—it’s full of missed opportunities where things could have been genuinely positive. It led me to conclude that this whole thing should probably just stay as an abstract idea, or maybe just a niche option for parents who, for some inexplicable reason, are desperate for it (though I can’t quite wrap my head around what kind of parent would actually want this for their 14-year-old).
I don't think I could ever accept this version of a "new era" because it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with common sense. And since this plan lacks any real logic or reason, you can list those "pro arguments" of yours a hundred times for all I care.
I suppose anyone who looks at this and sees a step forward for our school system is either a career politician or... well, rowdypanther12.😳

So, four out of five schools in our city that were actually looking into AT&T ended up backing out once the principals finally got a look at the fine print.
One small step for man...

Bryan Wells11 said:If something is wrong, you should push back. I know, it sounds utopian, but that’s my stance. I will never understand why people just shrug their shoulders and swallow whatever garbage is served to them. As if the geniuses sitting in that Department of Education are some kind of visionaries or messiahs. And then you have all those Fuksić types, Mamić types, Lovrić types, Piletić types—intellectual giants, clearly. And we’re supposed to let them force their project on us? A project that will impact generations of children and thousands of professionals in education? Please.
When I graduated with my English degree and started looking for work within the system (and mind you, I’ve worked in the private sector too; I didn't take the easy path from college straight to a permanent teaching job through some connection), I entered this profession knowing exactly what it looked like—what was expected of me, and both its pros and cons. I’ve said it a hundred times: what provides an advantage to a specialist in this field (not to be modest, I'm tired of this submissive attitude that we are all just "poor little teachers") is the schedule. It offers enough freedom to either work on school projects, grade a mountain of papers (which is always the case with language arts), or dedicate time to one's own family, provided you're organized. I calculated that the peanuts they pay for my knowledge and expertise are somewhat compensated by the flexibility of my non-standard working hours (though when I work afternoons, I lose the whole day and don't see my kids until evening, but whatever...). Now, some bureaucrat is going to calculate my "active hours" and conclude that I just have to accept being paid peanuts while simultaneously handing over my knowledge, experience, enthusiasm, and motivation overnight—all while stripping away the one perk this job actually offers? I guess they could have started by talking about salaries, comparing them to the US average or those high-end systems we claim we want to emulate, before moving on to these other whims.

Thank you so much for posting this. Truly, from the bottom of my heart.

I am completely fed up with people talking about "three months of summer vacation" or comparing us to retail cashiers whenever we mention our salary.

I remember the first lecture by the late Professor Anić back at the liberal arts college. He told us all that he congratulated us for choosing such a noble profession, but noted that it has always been underpaid and that no teacher has ever become wealthy through teaching.

I remember thinking to myself then—even if the pay is just average (or even below average for someone with a Master's degree), the job itself is decent because the hours are flexible and it can be done remotely. I won't be stuck in an office for eight hours a day tethered to people I don't necessarily have to like, nor will I be stuck commuting during rush hour every single day...

Over time, every single one of those perks has vanished. All that's left is the peanuts for pay and an ever-increasing, crushing workload of administrative duties.

And now, while other professionals enjoy remote work and flexible schedules, I’m expected to sit in a classroom for eight hours straight amidst the constant noise and chaos of teenagers, all for that same meager paycheck?

And yes, I am a professor. My diploma says I earned that title, even though my own parents address me with "Ma'am." They can't even bring themselves to say "Ms. Perzić," and I suppose their convictions prevent them from calling me Professor.

I studied back when a college degree actually meant something.
Nowadays, even that isn't clearly stated on many diplomas; instead, young colleagues are labeled as "Masters of Education," which is basically just a fancy Latin way of saying "teacher."

The benefits, the flexibility, and the social prestige have all crumbled.
The pay has remained stagnant for decades—barely hitting the average.
The responsibilities and obligations are growing, and soon, even the hours will increase.

My heartfelt support goes out to all my colleagues fighting to maintain full-day instruction. 👍 As for me, I won't let them trap me; I'll look out for myself.

wanderingbadger44 said:Thank you so much for posting this. Truly, from the bottom of my heart.

I am completely fed up with people talking about "three months of summer vacation" or comparing us to retail cashiers whenever we mention our salary.

I remember the first lecture by the late Professor Anić back at the liberal arts college. He told us all that he congratulated us for choosing such a noble profession, but noted that it has always been underpaid and that no teacher has ever become wealthy through teaching.

I remember thinking to myself then—even if the pay is just average (or even below average for someone with a Master's degree), the job itself is decent because the hours are flexible and it can be done remotely. I won't be stuck in an office for eight hours a day tethered to people I don't necessarily have to like, nor will I be stuck commuting during rush hour every single day...

Over time, every single one of those perks has vanished. All that's left is the peanuts for pay and an ever-increasing, crushing workload of administrative duties.

And now, while other professionals enjoy remote work and flexible schedules, I’m expected to sit in a classroom for eight hours straight amidst the constant noise and chaos of teenagers, all for that same meager paycheck?

And yes, I am a professor. My diploma says I earned that title, even though my own parents address me with "Ma'am." They can't even bring themselves to say "Ms. Perzić," and I suppose their convictions prevent them from calling me Professor.

I studied back when a college degree actually meant something.
Nowadays, even that isn't clearly stated on many diplomas; instead, young colleagues are labeled as "Masters of Education," which is basically just a fancy Latin way of saying "teacher."

The benefits, the flexibility, and the social prestige have all crumbled.
The pay has remained stagnant for decades—barely hitting the average.
The responsibilities and obligations are growing, and soon, even the hours will increase.

My heartfelt support goes out to all my colleagues fighting to maintain full-day instruction. 👍 As for me, I won't let them trap me; I'll look out for myself.

Tell me about it, sister. I enrolled in English studies just before the curriculum overhaul; you had to pull top grades and crush the entrance exams, but once I arrived at the university in Chicago, I knew I belonged there (ah, youth). And the program was no walk in the park. When I finally got that diploma stating I was a professor, I felt like I had truly achieved something. Then you get into an Elementary School and the first thing they hand you is a contract for an "English Teacher" (what a shock). Even if the kids call me "Professor" instead of "Teacher," I'll take it—not for my ego, but to preserve the dignity of the profession, or whatever is left of it.

I still have many years of work ahead of me, and if the full-day school mandate passes, I'll be hit by it. But worse yet, it will hit my children—my oldest is already past 7th grade, and the little one is starting from scratch. I just can't accept that.

I honestly hope the whole CN debacle just becomes a footnote—one of those "Remember when?" moments discussed by some
millionaire over drinks at a club in Chicago: "Hey, what was the name of that minister who tried to force that nonsensical all-day school program on us back in '23?"

Then again, if this thing actually moves forward... well, I truly hope they look at how they handled things in Cleveland and adopt their model for full-day schooling.

Honestly, don't hold your breath. People have already asked them several times why they’re making up these nonsense rules about hot water when the Cleveland model works just fine—but they just keep spinning excuses. It’s pretty obvious what’s actually going on here: they just don't want to pay for two elementary school teachers when they can dump all that extra work onto one person for the exact same paycheck.
From a teacher's perspective, if there's one thing to take away from this entire reform, it's this: they're basically trying to force double the workload on everyone without adding a single cent to our salaries.

Sure, but everyone’s going to be pulling in over 10 $0.00 an hour if they get that 4.5% raise, right? Someone should ask the referees what their take is on that. ☕

cosmicsurfer17 said:I honestly hope the whole CN debacle just becomes a footnote—one of those "Remember when?" moments discussed by some
millionaire over drinks at a club in Chicago: "Hey, what was the name of that minister who tried to force that nonsensical all-day school program on us back in '23?"

Then again, if this thing actually moves forward... well, I truly hope they look at how they handled things in Cleveland and adopt their model for full-day schooling.

They won't follow Cleveland's lead because the entire proposal doesn't mention them at all. It’s the same way people forget about the old America era and all those cities and schools that used CNo.

It’s honestly a shame that everything is being pinned on Fuchs, when Divjak was actually the one who tried to introduce the idea back in 2020 and wrote the original project. He just inherited it and tacked on a 25% pay raise to make it look better. So, he'll likely just be remembered for trying to get a massive raise for 50 principals.
He’ll probably just be remembered as another typical Republican, and personally, I don't think that's a question worthy of a game show.

Anyway, this whole school enrollment topic reminded me of a story I heard recently:
A mom was enrolling her kid for first grade, and while she was filling out all the paperwork for the PBa programs and elective subjects like Visual Arts and Informatics, she started chatting with one of the staff members. She mentioned how the school hasn't even applied for the CN experimental program yet, so she figured she could just relax for the next four years since she already has an older child in the district.
The staff member just replied, "Look, we have information that enrollment is proceeding exactly like previous years; these are just our standard forms. The application period for the experimental program stays open until the end of the month, and we're planning to run our own testing soon."
So, I asked, "Well, has the school actually submitted its application for the program?"
"I can't give you an answer to that," she said.
🥳

Just my two cents on transparency here. 😬
Man, parents these days sure do ask a lot of questions! 🤣

The second she said "I can't answer," it's obvious she already signed up.

Susan James said:They won't follow Cleveland's lead because the entire proposal doesn't mention them at all. It’s the same way people forget about the old America era and all those cities and schools that used CNo.

It’s honestly a shame that everything is being pinned on Fuchs, when Divjak was actually the one who tried to introduce the idea back in 2020 and wrote the original project. He just inherited it and tacked on a 25% pay raise to make it look better. So, he'll likely just be remembered for trying to get a massive raise for 50 principals.
He’ll probably just be remembered as another typical Republican, and personally, I don't think that's a question worthy of a game show.

And poor little Mickey, just collateral damage along with his entire team! It was all personally dreamed up and meticulously prepared by that malicious Divjakica, who is apparently responsible for every single problem in the American education system from the seventh century until the very end of time or the existence of Americans themselves (though she's certainly made a hundred appearances before now). 🤣

Larry Walker24 said:The second she said "I can't answer," it's obvious she already signed up.

So, she's heading straight for a FOIA request.

In all seriousness, the concept of full-day schooling has been a recurring theme in every single education strategy and policy document floating around since 2008. It doesn't matter if you're looking at Republican platforms or Democratic ones; the goal remains the same. Yet, somehow, Fuchs is the only one with the "good fortune" of actually having the budget to make it happen.

If Divjak were the one running the show right now, we’d already have this program implemented in every single school by the ninth month of the year, regardless of the circumstances. Honestly, who could even criticize her? She forced computer science into every elementary school curriculum with more authority than any elective subject has ever seen—mandating it for every grade level simultaneously and forcing every single school to offer it.

Larry Walker24 said:The second she said "I can't answer," it's obvious she already signed up.

Or, honestly, maybe she really just doesn't know yet. If they didn't even have a proper school board set up... I'm just sitting here crossing my fingers that my totally useless principal won't end up reporting us—because then he’d actually have to, you know, do some damn work and write up reports. But I can't be too sure if politics starts leaning on him, and he decides to sell us out just to snag a 25% raise or whatever perks the party promises in exchange for throwing us under the bus. I guess we won't find out until the end of the month.

hiddenseal14 said:In all seriousness, the concept of full-day schooling has been a recurring theme in every single education strategy and policy document floating around since 2008. It doesn't matter if you're looking at Republican platforms or Democratic ones; the goal remains the same. Yet, somehow, Fuchs is the only one with the "good fortune" of actually having the budget to make it happen.

If Divjak were the one running the show right now, we’d already have this program implemented in every single school by the ninth month of the year, regardless of the circumstances. Honestly, who could even criticize her? She forced computer science into every elementary school curriculum with more authority than any elective subject has ever seen—mandating it for every grade level simultaneously and forcing every single school to offer it.

Great. And I suppose the growing number of people working afternoon shifts in retail, service, or hospitality should just plan on seeing their kids on the weekends?

hiddenseal14 said:In all seriousness, the concept of full-day schooling has been a recurring theme in every single education strategy and policy document floating around since 2008. It doesn't matter if you're looking at Republican platforms or Democratic ones; the goal remains the same. Yet, somehow, Fuchs is the only one with the "good fortune" of actually having the budget to make it happen.

If Divjak were the one running the show right now, we’d already have this program implemented in every single school by the ninth month of the year, regardless of the circumstances. Honestly, who could even criticize her? She forced computer science into every elementary school curriculum with more authority than any elective subject has ever seen—mandating it for every grade level simultaneously and forcing every single school to offer it.

Yeah, we have this computer science class that the school keeps announcing only to cancel three competitions in a row—or, let's be honest, it's mostly just kids playing video games. Still, she can go ahead and claim she was the one who successfully brought the curriculum to life. And now, on top of all that, she’s actually acting offended because they're cutting back on the computer science hours.

If she were actually in power—though thankfully, the President was polite enough to give her a nod of thanks instead—things would look very different. 🙏 🙏We probably would have transitioned to full-day schooling by 2021. She actually finished drafting her strategic roadmap back in 2020 and had already started all the prep work for the CN.
I ended up skipping that one because my kid was already a bit too old for it, but I’ve heard people talking about how during her term, teachers at the local elementary schools had to deal with all that remote learning chaos. They were basically expected to send home piles of creative assignments via email, acting like they were running an after-school program from their living rooms—all without ever checking if the families actually had reliable high-speed internet at home. It felt like she just assumed every parent was working remotely and had nothing better to do than spend the entire day playing school with their kids. For those of us with children in public school, it honestly felt like we were stuck in an endless cycle of supervised playtime instead of actual parenting.

One silver lining to the pandemic was that it actually hit the pause button on everything happening around the CN. My only real concern is how much of that budget has ballooned since those documents were first drafted back in 2020. It feels like we’re now in a position where they have to rush through spending it all during this 23/24 cycle for what they're calling an "experiment"—even though, if you ask me, it doesn't feel like an experiment at all.

Susan James said:Yeah, we have this computer science class that the school keeps announcing only to cancel three competitions in a row—or, let's be honest, it's mostly just kids playing video games. Still, she can go ahead and claim she was the one who successfully brought the curriculum to life. And now, on top of all that, she’s actually acting offended because they're cutting back on the computer science hours.

If she were actually in power—though thankfully, the President was polite enough to give her a nod of thanks instead—things would look very different. 🙏 🙏We probably would have transitioned to full-day schooling by 2021. She actually finished drafting her strategic roadmap back in 2020 and had already started all the prep work for the CN.
I ended up skipping that one because my kid was already a bit too old for it, but I’ve heard people talking about how during her term, teachers at the local elementary schools had to deal with all that remote learning chaos. They were basically expected to send home piles of creative assignments via email, acting like they were running an after-school program from their living rooms—all without ever checking if the families actually had reliable high-speed internet at home. It felt like she just assumed every parent was working remotely and had nothing better to do than spend the entire day playing school with their kids. For those of us with children in public school, it honestly felt like we were stuck in an endless cycle of supervised playtime instead of actual parenting.

One silver lining to the pandemic was that it actually hit the pause button on everything happening around the CN. My only real concern is how much of that budget has ballooned since those documents were first drafted back in 2020. It feels like we’re now in a position where they have to rush through spending it all during this 23/24 cycle for what they're calling an "experiment"—even though, if you ask me, it doesn't feel like an experiment at all.

Given how much the US tech job market is struggling right now, I guess we should probably let people with just a bachelor's degree teach computer science in schools, provided they actually follow the curriculum correctly.

Susan James said:Yeah, we have this computer science class that the school keeps announcing only to cancel three competitions in a row—or, let's be honest, it's mostly just kids playing video games. Still, she can go ahead and claim she was the one who successfully brought the curriculum to life. And now, on top of all that, she’s actually acting offended because they're cutting back on the computer science hours.

If she were actually in power—though thankfully, the President was polite enough to give her a nod of thanks instead—things would look very different. 🙏 🙏We probably would have transitioned to full-day schooling by 2021. She actually finished drafting her strategic roadmap back in 2020 and had already started all the prep work for the CN.
I ended up skipping that one because my kid was already a bit too old for it, but I’ve heard people talking about how during her term, teachers at the local elementary schools had to deal with all that remote learning chaos. They were basically expected to send home piles of creative assignments via email, acting like they were running an after-school program from their living rooms—all without ever checking if the families actually had reliable high-speed internet at home. It felt like she just assumed every parent was working remotely and had nothing better to do than spend the entire day playing school with their kids. For those of us with children in public school, it honestly felt like we were stuck in an endless cycle of supervised playtime instead of actual parenting.

One silver lining to the pandemic was that it actually hit the pause button on everything happening around the CN. My only real concern is how much of that budget has ballooned since those documents were first drafted back in 2020. It feels like we’re now in a position where they have to rush through spending it all during this 23/24 cycle for what they're calling an "experiment"—even though, if you ask me, it doesn't feel like an experiment at all.

I just checked Divjakica's profile; this whole full-day schooling nonsense is entirely her own agenda.

John Palmer9 said:Given how much the US tech job market is struggling right now, I guess we should probably let people with just a bachelor's degree teach computer science in schools, provided they actually follow the curriculum correctly.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter if they only have an elementary school degree—I mean, really. At the end of the day, what actually counts is whether they’re a damn good psychologist. That's the real thing. 😍

I suspect that under current regulations, someone with an SSS degree isn't actually qualified to be a teacher or professor.
I honestly have no idea who is supposed to teach computer science at the Elementary School level—it’s basically the same headache we deal with regarding math teachers.
If I recall correctly, there’s an informatics track over at FF that covers the essentials quite well. It’s mostly practical stuff—Microsoft Office, an intro to Python, hardware basics, networking, and some internet fundamentals.
I mean, you certainly wouldn't head over to MIT just to explain how to use Word to kids.