All-day school schedules

Sarah Hall53 said:You’ve got those three teachers on the school board and that one parent representing the PTA.
If just ONE of them—for whatever shady little reason they might have—actually raises their hand to break the tie against those three founders who clearly only care about the bottom line... well, there you go. That's your "experiment."

Look, if they can pull that off so easily, then we don't deserve anything better. 👍

I can only say that from what I’ve noticed at my school, the subject teachers—the professors, if you will—don't say anything bad about this situation; in fact, they actually support it. Though, let's be real, the female teachers—or instructors, whatever you want to call them—are constant headaches.

Now, look, I’m not saying being a teacher is some easy ride. They have certain perks, they get home early, and it’s a decent enough career for a woman or a mother. But these days, the demands are skyrocketing, parents are getting increasingly difficult, and principals are constantly breathing down their necks for more and more.

Then again, I’ve seen how things operate in Northern European Union countries and—if we’re being honest here—all of us, myself included, are overpaid for the hours we actually put in (strictly speaking, regarding working hours). In England, for example, the shift is strictly 8 AM to 4 PM. No exceptions, no fluff. And the pay isn't exactly life-changing either—around 2,000 pounds net. That’s roughly equivalent to having $2000 here. Yet, most of us with full-time hours are pulling in significantly more than that.

Over in Sweden, the education system is kind of a mess; they overhauled the laws back in the 90s and since then, education has become extremely "decentralized." A lot of parents are unhappy, and people are losing interest in training to be teachers. Part of the issue is that once you finish high school, you make an average salary, while a professor's pay is only marginally higher—even though you have to grind through five years of college for it. They’re struggling to find teachers for humanities, let alone the STEM fields.

I don't know, I'm no genius. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in flight schools.

As a parent, I’m personally not a fan of the idea of my kid being stuck in school until 5 PM. Personally? I wouldn't mind staying until 4 PM. Besides, most of us aren't working nearly as hard as the rest of the educated workforce anyway.

You probably don't need to correct anyone if you aren't the teacher here. ☕

From what I can gather through my various circles—mostly other parents, though I suppose "circles" might be an overstatement—opinions seem to be split right down the middle. It’s quite polarized, really. On one hand, you have people who are absolutely appalled by the idea of a kid being stuck in a classroom from 8:00 AM until the bell rings—and then, heaven forbid, there's actually homework to deal with afterward, which, let's face it, is inevitable—so between school and evening extracurriculars, they feel like their kids are basically running a marathon every single day. Then, on the flip side, you have the others who are just thrilled about it. They see it as a way to keep the kids safe and out of trouble—no wandering around aimlessly—while ensuring they're actually learning and getting a decent lunch. I guess it just depends on how much chaos you're willing to tolerate.

jadetinker85 said:You probably don't need to correct anyone if you aren't the teacher here. ☕

Or maybe you're just one of those frustrated types who thinks we're all out here working ourselves to death or digging trenches in the backyard?

Honestly, I haven't seen this much whining about working conditions, pay, or whatever else in any other profession—it's constant. And frankly, we're doing just fine.

I’d happily send every single one of you to spend just one day working with my buddy in an Emergency Room. Just one day. Though, honestly, you probably wouldn't even last long enough to realize what hit you...🤦

jadetinker85 said:You probably don't need to correct anyone if you aren't the teacher here. ☕

I’d bet anything they’re talking about PE teachers.
The workload and prep time for them is totally comparable to what a math teacher deals with, for instance.

Honestly, I feel like the USA and a few other places that treat their teachers with such a "warm and fuzzy" attitude—you know, lacking any real professional respect—are the ones constantly struggling to recruit qualified educators. You see it all the time: talented teachers show up, realize how they're being treated, and then just bolt after a couple of years to go do literally anything else. It’s a cycle where schools end up scrambling to patch things over with untrained substitutes, because let's be real—no one with a shred of self-respect is going to stick around under those conditions. I mean, you're stuck at the school for eight hours, and then you still have to drag yourself home to tackle three different piles of exams to grade and endless progress reports to write... all for basically peanuts.

Sarah Hall53 said:I’d bet anything they’re talking about PE teachers.
The workload and prep time for them is totally comparable to what a math teacher deals with, for instance.

Yeah, I did—though I don't recall ever hiding the fact that I was a physics major.

But, for the record, I also have an engineering background and I’ve taught those "tough" STEM subjects. Exams, parents, being a homeroom teacher—you name it.

Ha, so what now?

And it’s always the same story in every faculty lounge—poor me, poor us, our pay is so low... I’ve never actually heard that from any of my friends or family working in engineering or medicine. And honestly, what we do compared to them is incomparable. One of my best friends spent years grinding away in the ER until he finally landed his dream specialty. His salary is lower than mine. Not even close. He never complained, not once. And that is exactly why the general public hates us—because we’re always whining about something when, realistically, we aren't doing all that bad.

Do you really think my neighbor, who graduated with an economics degree, doesn't bring her banking work home? Or that when she gets back around 5:00 PM, her kids aren't waiting, or there isn't laundry and other "joys" to deal with? She works for $3000 all day long. And consider the level of responsibility she carries.

Let's stop romanticizing our universities for a second. Let's get real. Getting through MIT is significantly harder than getting through a teaching college. And that goes for most specialized academic tracks, too.

The truly grueling majors are the hard sciences, and they should all be earning higher salaries than we are. It’s just basic logic—being a surgeon or an epidemiologist isn't the same as other medical roles. We all know where the weight of responsibility lies and which jobs are objectively tougher.

Paul Davis2 said:Wait, why? Are you against reforms backed by five-year studies? Or do you just prefer the "gut feeling" approach?

I'm curious—which five-year study actually concluded that keeping kids stuck in school from 8 AM to 5 PM is the way to go?
Could you please share a link?

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, this whole twisted setup they've cooked up is just... wow. It's awful.
I am all for reforms that are actually backed by real research—you know, things that make sense—but I am definitely NOT for THIS mess they're trying to feed us.
First off, we’re going to see a massive exodus of teachers leaving the school system. Seriously, forget it. If this happens, I'm out. I'll go do literally anything else that offers a standard eight-hour workday where I don't have to bring my job home with me. Because right now, they're basically designing an eight-hour shift that secretly requires you to do endless prep work at your kitchen table.
The second thing that's going to happen is a huge surge in homeschooling lobbying. Once this absolute disaster is actually implemented, a ton of parents are just going to pull their kids out of the public schools entirely—because they simply refuse to let their children be stuck in that environment from age 8 to 16.

Has anyone actually sat down and read this document? Because I have, and frankly, I wouldn't wish this on myself or my own kid.

Here, I'll post the whole thing.
It's awful.

Sarah Hall53 said:If his name gets pulled into this whole experiment thing, we’re switching schools. Period. I'll just drive him over to the next district—or even two towns over if that's what it takes to get him away from it.

I can't stop thinking about this either... any sane parent would instinctively feel the need to act so this "experiment" doesn't spread to other schools.

Though, I think if you really want to protect your kid and prove how ridiculous this experiment is, you have to take it to the extreme. Not by pulling kids out entirely—because they’d lose their friends—but by just ignoring the lessons: pulling kids out of class mid-day for a dermatologist appointment, a dentist visit, a therapist, or even a haircut.
....God forbid my kid doesn't end up needing thirty-three different appointments a week.
The logic seems to be that this project will encourage more family time at home since kids will get everything done at school, but I'm sitting here wondering: I've been struggling for two weeks just trying to schedule a hair appointment on a weekday (trying to coordinate my schedule, the stylist's, and hers, especially since her generation has such limited free time), so what on earth would it look like if they were stuck in school all day?
Last year, we had such a hard time getting her passport sorted because we had to sync our work shifts and deal with the long waits at the local DMV (where the kid actually has to show up in person). And that was just the paperwork side of things.
When would they even go buy shoes or school supplies—especially when stores close early on Sundays—or will they even need to if everyone is just forced into uniforms? 🤔

And reading through this, it's clear people are putting in the effort to give reasoned responses during these public consultations.
But clearly, neither the teachers nor (any) normal parents want this. Even music instructors and coaches don't want it—their entire livelihood depends on this, because who is going to organize music lessons from 5:00 to 7:00 PM for everyone when it's supposed to be individual instruction? Plus, when would kids who are in school all day even find time to practice their instruments?
And I know how these public forums always end: "Thanks for your comment, but the proposal is rejected, meaning we're doing it our way anyway."

Someone drew up a plan, someone decided to divvy up some money (and we'll be talking for years about how and where that money was actually funneled).
But hey, we have our public hearings, and we get the joy of watching the American education system move closer to the UN standards in terms of hours spent in school, where kids can just read their literature on a couch in class, just like they do in Finland. The kids will be happy. Stupid, but happy.

It’s basically just mobbing people in those faculty group chats to completely SHUT DOWN any kind of counseling through comment sections. We’ve already managed to kill off a couple of documents this way—just by flooding them with a thousand or two angry, negative comments until they eventually get buried in some drawer somewhere.

mellowskipper said:From what I can gather through my various circles—mostly other parents, though I suppose "circles" might be an overstatement—opinions seem to be split right down the middle. It’s quite polarized, really. On one hand, you have people who are absolutely appalled by the idea of a kid being stuck in a classroom from 8:00 AM until the bell rings—and then, heaven forbid, there's actually homework to deal with afterward, which, let's face it, is inevitable—so between school and evening extracurriculars, they feel like their kids are basically running a marathon every single day. Then, on the flip side, you have the others who are just thrilled about it. They see it as a way to keep the kids safe and out of trouble—no wandering around aimlessly—while ensuring they're actually learning and getting a decent lunch. I guess it just depends on how much chaos you're willing to tolerate.

You know who’s actually excited?
People without kids who think it sounds amazing to have children in school all day because it means they won't need private tutors (since everyone keeps raving about how great the system is in Finland)

And also parents with kids in daycare who just need reliable childcare, and the school offers maybe one or two after-school programs (though their enthusiasm tends to vanish once they realize those sessions are actually structured classes)

Then there are the folks who find their own kids a bit much and don't care about the 150 different extracurricular options available, assuming everything will magically be provided by the school for free (so they don't have to pay out of pocket). They usually change their tune once they realize the school offers Spanish instead of Mandarin, or that they still have to drive their kid to violin lessons—except now the kid will be practicing right before bed instead of playing outside while the parent was at work.

Sarah Hall53 said:It’s basically just mobbing people in those faculty group chats to completely SHUT DOWN any kind of counseling through comment sections. We’ve already managed to kill off a couple of documents this way—just by flooding them with a thousand or two angry, negative comments until they eventually get buried in some drawer somewhere.

Aha.
I think it's pretty wild.
My gut feeling is that most of it is just for show.

There are actually some top-tier comments out there. Some people really put in the work.

Does anyone happen to know what kind of extracurricular activities will be offered this year? I'm wondering if it'll be the usual lineup, like art or drama classes, since those typically kick off once the 15-hour mark hits.
I'm also curious about how the supplemental sessions are being structured, specifically whether they fall within that initial 15-hour window or if they take place afterward, though I'm assuming the extra help might come earlier.

If that's the case, I'll just have my little one pick one or maybe two activities so she can at least head home three days earlier in the week.

Rebecca Clark6 said:Does anyone happen to know what kind of extracurricular activities will be offered this year? I'm wondering if it'll be the usual lineup, like art or drama classes, since those typically kick off once the 15-hour mark hits.
I'm also curious about how the supplemental sessions are being structured, specifically whether they fall within that initial 15-hour window or if they take place afterward, though I'm assuming the extra help might come earlier.

If that's the case, I'll just have my little one pick one or maybe two activities so she can at least head home three days earlier in the week.

Take a look at the official document.
The online public consultation portal

Oh man, just so you guys know!
The new A2 enrichment program is going to be mandatory for everyone. So, after the usual six hours of classes, they’re tacking on two extra hours of "enrichment"—which basically means teachers will have to juggle remedial lessons, extra coursework, ExxonMobil prep, and grading homework for the entire class all at once. Once a week, maybe they can split kids up based on interests for those two hours, but otherwise, it's just more of the same every single day.
It's honestly everything, everywhere, all at once.
I mean, just try to imagine the actual quality of work coming out of that mess.
And hey, to make things even better, the school won't even give the teachers a single minute of paid time to actually prepare for this A2 nonsense.
Long live the reform and the full-day school model—because clearly, everything can just be solved within the school walls!

Sarah Hall53 said:Oh man, just so you guys know!
The new A2 enrichment program is going to be mandatory for everyone. So, after the usual six hours of classes, they’re tacking on two extra hours of "enrichment"—which basically means teachers will have to juggle remedial lessons, extra coursework, ExxonMobil prep, and grading homework for the entire class all at once. Once a week, maybe they can split kids up based on interests for those two hours, but otherwise, it's just more of the same every single day.
It's honestly everything, everywhere, all at once.
I mean, just try to imagine the actual quality of work coming out of that mess.
And hey, to make things even better, the school won't even give the teachers a single minute of paid time to actually prepare for this A2 nonsense.
Long live the reform and the full-day school model—because clearly, everything can just be solved within the school walls!

That's why I shared the link to the document and the consultation.
Even if we ignore the fact that they aren't paying for prep time, it's physically impossible to pull this off if they want to actually address individual student needs and expect them to master everything while still at school.
It's the same old story; for years, parents have been begging them not to send kids who struggle with learning (or even just focus) to after-school programs.
And since kids who get an instructional assistant don't qualify for those programs, they're stuck.
Honestly, how do they think they're going to fix this?
When is a teacher supposed to find the time to coach a student for a competition?
Or when are they going to help a student who hasn't even grasped the basic material yet?
Where is the space, and more importantly, when is the time for all of this to happen?
😕

everything everywhere all at once

And you can't forget about that one group of people who just doesn't want to be there—you know the type—they have zero motivation, they're bored out of their minds, and then they start acting out and messing things up for everyone else.
But of course, the teacher always ends up taking the fall for it, claiming it's because they "failed to engage" them in the first place.

I mean, what kind of teacher is actually going to sit there with them for two hours trying to help them wrap their heads around chemistry, physics, German, math, and English? 😁

shadowtiger0 said:I can only say that from what I’ve noticed at my school, the subject teachers—the professors, if you will—don't say anything bad about this situation; in fact, they actually support it. Though, let's be real, the female teachers—or instructors, whatever you want to call them—are constant headaches.

Now, look, I’m not saying being a teacher is some easy ride. They have certain perks, they get home early, and it’s a decent enough career for a woman or a mother. But these days, the demands are skyrocketing, parents are getting increasingly difficult, and principals are constantly breathing down their necks for more and more.

Then again, I’ve seen how things operate in Northern European Union countries and—if we’re being honest here—all of us, myself included, are overpaid for the hours we actually put in (strictly speaking, regarding working hours). In England, for example, the shift is strictly 8 AM to 4 PM. No exceptions, no fluff. And the pay isn't exactly life-changing either—around 2,000 pounds net. That’s roughly equivalent to having $2000 here. Yet, most of us with full-time hours are pulling in significantly more than that.

Over in Sweden, the education system is kind of a mess; they overhauled the laws back in the 90s and since then, education has become extremely "decentralized." A lot of parents are unhappy, and people are losing interest in training to be teachers. Part of the issue is that once you finish high school, you make an average salary, while a professor's pay is only marginally higher—even though you have to grind through five years of college for it. They’re struggling to find teachers for humanities, let alone the STEM fields.

I don't know, I'm no genius. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out in flight schools.

As a parent, I’m personally not a fan of the idea of my kid being stuck in school until 5 PM. Personally? I wouldn't mind staying until 4 PM. Besides, most of us aren't working nearly as hard as the rest of the educated workforce anyway.

Listen, in the United Kingdom, a massive exodus of teachers already started several years ago because of those "wonderful" conditions. People are literally moving to Thailand to teach English and live with drastically lower costs of living than in the UK.

I am a tenured professor working in an Elementary School, and I certainly deal with all the intense nonsense I've encountered since I started in education. It is tragic how moronic policies kill the motivation and desire of people who actually chose this profession. Anyone teaching a core subject—say, one of the three main ones—has plenty of work, aside from the physical presence required in school (for example, the requirement for a first foreign language is 23 hours, one of the highest). Then you drag yourself home to grade 130 exams, 130 essays, and so much other written work. All of that is extra work, done outside of school where there often isn't even a quiet corner to work in. The horrific classroom management duties and the level of engagement expected for just two measly hours of required instruction is a whole different story that is better left unmentioned.

Edit: and if you feel overpaid for what you actually do, I really don't know what to tell you; clearly, you aren't working that hard.