All-day school schedules

Honestly, I have to chuckle at this romanticized notion of "free time" that just doesn't exist in the real world—especially coming from the very same people who usually spend their time complaining about those exact same facts.

I’m also a bit lost on how someone buying a phone or anything else mentioned in the post even relates to the topic at hand.

On a side note, even with my shaky German, I managed to find out within five minutes that elementary school classes in Boston typically wrap up somewhere between 3:00 and 4:00 PM.
I couldn't find a single source suggesting that classes run from, say, 11:00 AM to 7:00 PM, which seems to be the case for about 80% of the schools back in Chicago.

Sarah Hall53 said:it's actually until 4pm

It’s about time.
The reality is that this reform needs to fundamentally overhaul our school system. We’re lagging behind—especially when it comes to instructional hours (we're practically at the bottom of the pack in the European Union), teacher pay, and overall student performance.

well, I guess we'll just end up bumping one of those three up. 👍

Sarah Hall53 said:well, I guess we'll just end up bumping one of those three up. 👍

Right—because it’s perfectly fine for hourly rates to skyrocket everywhere else in the world, but if it happens here in the States, suddenly it’s a national crisis.

So, does this mean our teachers aren't going to see any improvement in student performance, even with those extra budget allocations for hourly pay?
That’s quite an interesting point to consider... It really makes you wonder what that says about them, doesn't it?

Michelle Nelson4 said:So, does this mean our teachers aren't going to see any improvement in student performance, even with those extra budget allocations for hourly pay?
That’s quite an interesting point to consider... It really makes you wonder what that says about them, doesn't it?

It's basically assuming they'll just cram 20-25 kids into a single classroom and expect one person to manage three different things at once.
They’re planning to pile on more teaching hours and extra duties without any proportional bump in pay—which, honestly, sounds exhausting.
At this rate, you’ll be lucky if they even step foot in the room; they'll just tell the kids which pages to read and then scroll through Instagram on their phones.

Is that some kind of personal mantra you live by—like, "you can't pay me enough to make me work"?

Paul Davis2 said:It’s about time.
The reality is that this reform needs to fundamentally overhaul our school system. We’re lagging behind—especially when it comes to instructional hours (we're practically at the bottom of the pack in the European Union), teacher pay, and overall student performance.

What does "lagging behind in instructional hours" actually mean?
Yeah, from what I gather about how things work in Washington, D.C., their summer break runs from mid-July through late August, whereas ours stretches from late June all the way to early September. Honestly, it feels like we have way too much summer vacation.

It seems pretty obvious to me that one kid doesn't need extra math homework if they're already grasping everything covered in their four weekly hours of scheduled class time without needing extra drills or home study. On the flip side, five hours a week might still not be enough for another student, yet those extra two hours often just end up being a way to pad out a teacher's workload (what they call "increasing the norm").
What’s really the point of grouping two students like that in the same classroom?
(You could use plenty of other examples here)

And why would the child from that first example even stay in an A2 level program? What are they supposed to do there?
Just sit around waiting for the B1 curriculum? Which they might not even enjoy, or they might spend the first three months realizing they aren't interested—or maybe they realize the teacher is great, but they can't just quit in the middle of the school year and switch to something else because of scheduling conflicts and losing credits. It's not like they can just drop out to join a paid extracurricular activity... or something free at a local community center (of which there are plenty).

Michelle Nelson4 said:So, does this mean our teachers aren't going to see any improvement in student performance, even with those extra budget allocations for hourly pay?
That’s quite an interesting point to consider... It really makes you wonder what that says about them, doesn't it?

A teacher who isn't great at teaching will still struggle whether they teach 4 hours or 5 hours a week🤷
and there are plenty of those out there (you mentioned some yourself)
so, instead of letting a kid learn on their own at home or getting help from someone who actually knows the material, we should just force them to sit through another hour of useless classroom time.

And what happens when a teacher goes on medical leave and they end up with endless rounds of unqualified substitutes?
Or when someone resigns and we're stuck waiting for a new hire, and suddenly we can't even cover the 4 weekly hours because of vacancies—well, increasing it to 7 hours won't magically fix that gap either.🙏

But hey, I guess we'll just stay right where we are, stuck in the same league as Washington, D.C. 😬 🤦
(By the way, I honestly don't see the issue with high schoolers aged 14-19?)

Michelle Nelson4 said:Is that some kind of personal mantra you live by—like, "you can't pay me enough to make me work"?

Honestly, right now I’m pulling about 30% more work than what my paycheck actually covers ☕, but if they don't fix this soon, I am going to lean into that "not getting paid enough to care" vibe without a single ounce of guilt.
Either that, or I'll just walk away and find a place where I can actually leave my work at the office after my eight hours are up—and get paid fairly, too. I’ve already got a few leads I'm looking into.
At least five of my colleagues—and we're talking top-tier teachers here, really talented people—have told me the exact same thing.
Like I mentioned before, one of those three things is bound to happen. ☕

Susan James said:What does "lagging behind in instructional hours" actually mean?
Yeah, from what I gather about how things work in Washington, D.C., their summer break runs from mid-July through late August, whereas ours stretches from late June all the way to early September. Honestly, it feels like we have way too much summer vacation.

It seems pretty obvious to me that one kid doesn't need extra math homework if they're already grasping everything covered in their four weekly hours of scheduled class time without needing extra drills or home study. On the flip side, five hours a week might still not be enough for another student, yet those extra two hours often just end up being a way to pad out a teacher's workload (what they call "increasing the norm").
What’s really the point of grouping two students like that in the same classroom?
(You could use plenty of other examples here)

And why would the child from that first example even stay in an A2 level program? What are they supposed to do there?
Just sit around waiting for the B1 curriculum? Which they might not even enjoy, or they might spend the first three months realizing they aren't interested—or maybe they realize the teacher is great, but they can't just quit in the middle of the school year and switch to something else because of scheduling conflicts and losing credits. It's not like they can just drop out to join a paid extracurricular activity... or something free at a local community center (of which there are plenty).

Check out Eurydice and you'll see how it works.
I don't get why it's not clear to everyone. To me, it's simple: kids who need support should get that support within their own school, and those who need more intensive help should get that in that same school too. They don't necessarily need to be sitting in the same room with the same teacher.

Paul Davis2 said:Check out Eurydice and you'll see how it works.
I don't get why it's not clear to everyone. To me, it's simple: kids who need support should get that support within their own school, and those who need more intensive help should get that in that same school too. They don't necessarily need to be sitting in the same room with the same teacher.

There's a huge gap between needing support and actually getting it, and honestly, I think that gap is just way too wide...

I'm not opening any files or documents.
It feels incredibly hypocritical to complain about staffing shortages while simultaneously forcing employees and kids into these chaotic, unplanned schedules that wreck everyone's work-life balance. It makes life impossible for parents during the week—unless you're one of those moms who gets to sit back with a coffee or someone who prefers working from home. Meanwhile, parents are left scrambling to figure out childcare from late June through early September, or dealing with the chaos when people take their two or three weeks of vacation. That’s the reality we're seeing with the current administration.
Why isn't this being handled by sending resources over from Washington, D.C.? We're supposedly short on hours, right?
Why wasn't that the first step they took?
And look at how they handled introducing school lunches. It’s been almost three months now—does every single kid actually have access to lunch at school? People in town are saying it's free, but is it really happening everywhere?

But moving back to the kids who need specialized support:
If school runs from 8:00 AM to 3:00 PM (or even 5:00 PM), when on earth are these kids supposed to see a speech therapist or a psychologist? Are these specialists expected to work exclusively in the afternoons? On weekends? At night?

Susan James said:There's a huge gap between needing support and actually getting it, and honestly, I think that gap is just way too wide...

I'm not opening any files or documents.
It feels incredibly hypocritical to complain about staffing shortages while simultaneously forcing employees and kids into these chaotic, unplanned schedules that wreck everyone's work-life balance. It makes life impossible for parents during the week—unless you're one of those moms who gets to sit back with a coffee or someone who prefers working from home. Meanwhile, parents are left scrambling to figure out childcare from late June through early September, or dealing with the chaos when people take their two or three weeks of vacation. That’s the reality we're seeing with the current administration.
Why isn't this being handled by sending resources over from Washington, D.C.? We're supposedly short on hours, right?
Why wasn't that the first step they took?
And look at how they handled introducing school lunches. It’s been almost three months now—does every single kid actually have access to lunch at school? People in town are saying it's free, but is it really happening everywhere?

But moving back to the kids who need specialized support:
If school runs from 8:00 AM to 3:00 PM (or even 5:00 PM), when on earth are these kids supposed to see a speech therapist or a psychologist? Are these specialists expected to work exclusively in the afternoons? On weekends? At night?

So, basically, a government that signs onto human rights charters is locking children and teachers in schools, intentionally cutting off their growth, development, and access to necessary treatment. Someone here has bad intentions—and if it's not the Masons, then you can fill in the blank.

I was reading somewhere that parents over in Cleveland are actually pretty happy, though maybe not with this latest reform they're pushing.
See, in certain schools there in Cleveland, they've already been doing years of full-day instruction instead of just standard after-school care.
The whole concept is different—it's not just one teacher stuck with everything all day—and everyone involved thought this model would be rolled out across the rest of the US, too. But from what I can tell, that successful example they've had running smoothly for ages hasn't even been considered.

I honestly can't wrap my head around where they're planning to pull the funding from to build an entirely empty school in year four just to facilitate a single-shift schedule, nor am I clear on what kind of staff they intend to hire to fill it.

Paul Davis2 said:So, basically, a government that signs onto human rights charters is locking children and teachers in schools, intentionally cutting off their growth, development, and access to necessary treatment. Someone here has bad intentions—and if it's not the Masons, then you can fill in the blank.

Hanlon's Razor: please, let’s not go around assigning malice to things that can be perfectly explained by sheer stupidity.

Raymond Jones8 said:I was reading somewhere that parents over in Cleveland are actually pretty happy, though maybe not with this latest reform they're pushing.
See, in certain schools there in Cleveland, they've already been doing years of full-day instruction instead of just standard after-school care.
The whole concept is different—it's not just one teacher stuck with everything all day—and everyone involved thought this model would be rolled out across the rest of the US, too. But from what I can tell, that successful example they've had running smoothly for ages hasn't even been considered.

So, I heard this story about those teachers over in Cleveland who were doing full-day instruction—and honestly, they were so eager to help. They actually reached out to the Department of Education, offering up all their years of hands-on experience to help shape how the whole full-day model would work. They thought they were being helpful, you know? But apparently, they got shut down immediately. The higher-ups basically brushed them off, saying that it wouldn't be "full-day instruction" anymore, but rather a "full-day school"—which is supposedly a completely different concept altogether. They basically told those teachers that all their hard-earned expertise was totally useless for this new direction. Kind of a gut punch, if you ask me.

I can't help but wonder what their plan is for kids with special needs who rely on classroom aides? Are those students also expected to be stuck in school for 8 to 15 hours a day? And what about the aides—are they really going to work for an hourly rate of $8.25 only to get laid off during summer break?

Plus, looking at the schools right here in my neighborhood (three out of four run on different shifts anyway), I just don't see how they could ever switch to a single-shift schedule. I mean, you'd have to fund massive construction projects or build entire new schools over the next four years, right? Someone would have to pull off those renovations across a huge number of schools all across America at the exact same time just to make this whole reform actually work.

Just don't forget—those aides are only really there for about five hours of sunlight. The rest of the day? It’s basically just the teacher and the kids left to fend for themselves.
And no, they weren't talking about kids with special needs. They weren't thinking about kids with health issues, either. They weren't even considering children dealing with chronic illnesses. I mean, why would anyone bother to think about them?

Sarah Hall53 said:Just don't forget—those aides are only really there for about five hours of sunlight. The rest of the day? It’s basically just the teacher and the kids left to fend for themselves.
And no, they weren't talking about kids with special needs. They weren't thinking about kids with health issues, either. They weren't even considering children dealing with chronic illnesses. I mean, why would anyone bother to think about them?

That’s just how every reform goes, including this one. There’s zero actual thought behind it; they just push these fixed ideas through so they can tell the public they actually accomplished something.

But what about the gifted kids?
Specifically those with a knack for STEM subjects where we just don't have the teachers to support them?

I’ve started feeling like the only real solution at the end of this tunnel is a solid private school. So, if anyone can swing it...