The Enlightenment as a spiritual movement

Let’s put those psychic abilities of yours to the test—if you can guess the color of my socks, boxers, pants, and shirt, then maybe you’re actually the real deal. Since you love bragging so much, let’s see what you've got... haha. And here you are telling me openness is the opposite of wisdom. Maybe try learning how to teach someone else first.

Bradley Myers63 said:Let’s put those psychic abilities of yours to the test—if you can guess the color of my socks, boxers, pants, and shirt, then maybe you’re actually the real deal. Since you love bragging so much, let’s see what you've got... haha. And here you are telling me openness is the opposite of wisdom. Maybe try learning how to teach someone else first.

That wasn't exactly a challenge. You’ve got gray socks, white boxers, blue sweats, and a black shirt. Work on yourself first—this part is easy for me. 😉

John Jones3 said:That wasn't exactly a challenge. You’ve got gray socks, white boxers, blue sweats, and a black shirt. Work on yourself first—this part is easy for me. 😉

🙏 🙏 🙏 Now I'm actually a little spooked—I thought I was just joking about that vision, but you actually took it seriously... how did you even know about the boxers if I'm wearing sweats? 😕

Hey! Now I’ll be watching your every move whenever you pop up on YouTube or RedTube—so watch yourself, don't go pulling any stunts. 😂
First you ask the question, then act all shocked when you actually get an answer. You still have a lot to learn from the pros—you're just a little wannabe light show enthusiast

John Jones3 said:If you’re going to claim people should focus on themselves instead of me while simultaneously preaching about Oneness, you’re basically lying to yourself—there is no distinction between us in Oneness. We are all one, which means my experience is yours too, provided you actually open yourself up enough to learn from it. There isn't some arbitrary distance between me and anyone else here; I'm just sharing what I've lived through, though apparently, hearing someone's actual experience is an issue for you. Would it be better if we spent ten posts beating around the bush instead of just using plain English to say how things work? It really is that simple—you open the heart chakra (the third is the easiest starting point), then gradually move through the sixth, then all seven, and the path just unfolds without needing some rigid manual.

I am not the topic of this discussion.

wearyhawk83 said:I am not the topic of this discussion.

Actually, you are—because you're projecting everything onto me. You need to look at yourself instead. What I wrote might actually help you pull back the curtain on whatever is keeping you in the dark.

John Jones3 said:Actually, you are—because you're projecting everything onto me. You need to look at yourself instead. What I wrote might actually help you pull back the curtain on whatever is keeping you in the dark.

Thanks for the help!

wearyhawk83 said:Thanks for the help!

I’d be happy if any of my points actually helped you—just don't lose that spark, and try not to let life shake your confidence.👍

John Jones3 said:So, I hear some blind guy claiming you need a permit for enlightenment—so apparently, you’re officially enlightened on this forum now. But seriously, how do we actually measure that? Is enlightenment just a scale where your light body hits 70%, 80%, or 90%? And what happens to the folks who hit 99%—does the Creator just look the other way for that final 1%?

Look, I’m not kidding—I see auras, I "communicate" with orbs, and I frequently feel my heart chakra overflowing with love. I move through life acting out of pure compassion toward everything and everyone. Sometimes I’ll just hug a pillow, thinking about how we are all One—how this random pillow is neither more nor less significant than I am—and I’ll just pour myself into it until my heart is full again. So, how do I know if I've actually reached enlightenment? I'd say I have. As for whether my light body has expanded by 80% or 90%, I'll leave that to the experts—though I highly doubt spirituality can be quantified, much like trying to map spiritual growth on a graph the way Mr. Ljubo stojka does.

I think that claim—that enlightenment marks the near end of development—is pretty much a joke. Almost.The hard part is still ahead once you start mastering those spiritual powers—they have a nasty habit of sabotaging you.

I mean, I guess I can see how they really managed to pull the wool over your eyes on this one, you know? It feels like those classic little traps you run into on a spiritual journey where, like, one specific talent or maybe even a certain skill set just ends up being a total distraction that drags you away from actual personal growth, if that makes sense. It’s funny how that works, I suppose.

I mean, you should probably just go find your higher self first, right? Like, actually look at it and try to have a little chat. Let it give you the lowdown without needing some fancy PowerPoint presentation or anything. But honestly, I guess why even bother putting yourself through that stress? If it decides to tell you that you aren't quite enlightened yet, you’ll probably just spiral straight into a massive depression. It might be better to just play it safe and not risk the heartbreak, if you know what I mean!

So, I guess you could say I’ve learned how to kind of "tap into" certain energies that actually respond when you ask them to, and they sort of manifest things to some degree, though it's not like magic out of nowhere or anything—it's really just the result of years and years of practice, I suppose. But the thing is, these effects are totally tied to how much I've grown spiritually, and those energies can clearly sense where I'm at by looking at my physical state and my aura, if that makes sense. I’m definitely not sitting here thinking I’m some big-shot guru or fully enlightened, because, well, those types of people don't really brag about it, right? You just receive whatever you're actually capable of handling. From what I understand, once a person manages to hit that 0.15 Hz brainwave frequency during meditation, that’s when your "inner guide" finally shows up and starts taking over to lead you toward enlightenment—which, honestly, can still take years even after that happens. It’s like this specialized spiritual energy that looks out for highly evolved individuals, and it might show up as different shapes or maybe just as a voice in your head. Right now, after five years of grinding away at this, I’m hitting around 7.5 Hz, which is pretty much the upper end of the theta waves. So, yeah, I am waaaaay off from that 0.15 Hz mark. I’d estimate it might take me another 8 to 10 years to reach 0.15 Hz, so if I keep up this exact pace, I guess I’m looking at another 8 to 10 years before I actually hit enlightenment.

So, I mean, I could honestly say that I’m basically out here vibing with pure energy all the time, you know? Like, I’m constantly walking through these massive power spots and I feel like I pretty much have a PhD in aura stuff and spiritual frequencies, or at least I get the gist of it, I guess. If I could just, maybe, sharpen my intuition a tiny bit more, I’d probably be fully enlightened or something. I’ve been posting my thoughts on these forums quite a bit lately, and who knows, maybe some big-shot editor at a place like Huffington Post or Medium will scout me to write for a major blog, because honestly, I feel like a total star. It’s probably just my ego getting in the way of my spiritual growth, though, which is kind of a trip, right?

So, I’ve got this guy from my neck of the woods who’s been working with energy for, like, 17 or 18 years now, and honestly, he’s quite the healer—he’s constantly communicating with energies and his guides, and he can actually activate some pretty high-level energy stuff. He isn't fully enlightened just yet, though, but he’s getting incredibly close, maybe another year or two if he stays on this path, I guess. And how am I so sure about that? Well, he basically has this entire roadmap laid out for him toward enlightenment, complete with specific guidance from his spirit guides telling him exactly what steps to take next to get there. It’s kind of interesting because when you’re trying to activate those massive energetic hubs—you know, places like Mount Olympus or Delphi—it actually requires at least two enlightened beings to be present, otherwise, nothing really happens at all. So, since he hasn't reached that stage yet, he hasn't been called up to lead those big operations because he isn't part of that inner circle quite yet. He’s participating as an assistant, which is super important, like a really vital right-hand man, but he’s not stepping into that role as an enlightened master just yet, I suppose.

Next time we’re gonna have to call you in to help out, just so you aren't stuck being the only enlightened one on this whole forum, you know, so you can actually hang out with people on your own level.

So, I guess, how does anyone actually figure out if others are enlightened? Like, besides those obvious symptoms and powers, someone else who has really clear communication with energies might ask if they’re truly enlightened. And honestly, when you're talking directly to your guide, you kind of find out for yourself—you learn about your new responsibilities as an enlightened soul, and usually, the first big task is finishing up that last 5% of developing the spiritual body. It’s super important to realize that this whole process is gradual, I mean, it takes at least a few months and doesn't feel like some sudden explosion or a massive boom (though there are exceptions with the first type of enlightenment). It's gradual because a new spiritual body is basically being built—it's a new energetic structure where the consciousness gets copied from the aura, but it happens slowly and carefully, which takes time. So, an enlightened person—at least regarding the second type of enlightenment—doesn't really realize there was a specific day or moment when it all happened. Even a guy like Mr. Smith didn't believe his guide when he told him he was enlightened. He kept arguing that he wasn't feeling any symptoms (back then, nobody knew about the second type yet) and that nothing special was happening. He eventually asked a colleague over in Canada who has great communication skills to check on him. She got an answer back saying that according to all cosmic criteria, he is indeed enlightened, and if he doesn't want to accept it, well, that's his problem! Later on, it was discovered that enlightenment actually has its own levels, starting from level 1 out of 33, which marks the stage where a person starts acting as pure energy in a human form, and their duties as an enlightened being deal more with the functioning of the cosmos than with humanity's everyday problems. It’s almost like a coincidence (?) that even the Illuminati use levels from 1 to 33! And "Illuminati" literally means enlightened. It's just that they are the total opposite, totally focused on the material side of things. I suspect that in the beginning, there were probably enlightened people among them who were headed toward spirituality, but later on, the whole movement got twisted—which happens so often, I guess—and turned toward gaining power, like material authority, rather than actual spiritual enlightenment.

There’s this one enlightened guy who is a Tantra master and has incredible powers. He’s a spiritual teacher, and his students claim he’s enlightened, though I suppose he doesn't necessarily have to be, if you ask me. Still, with just a little bit of spiritual practice, you can see he’s an exceptional person, kind of like Eckhart Tolle, because he laid out all the issues regarding the ego and consciousness way before him, but he stays completely practical and dedicated to applying that knowledge. Personally, I think he is enlightened, but at the end of the day, that’s really just between him and the Creator.

Thanks for giving me permission to be enlightened too! I'll get right on it! Now I can finally stop with those boring meditations and go start my own ashram or something. But I should definitely start making bank off seminars, right? 🙂 Does the Orba need a commission?

I'll DM you my Chase account info—just toss $100 in there 😂
My abilities haven't been lying to me—it’s just that sometimes I play around too much and end up heading in the wrong direction. Based on your logic, the bar for enlightenment is set way too high; personally, I think you hit that stage long before you can actually interface with those energy guides. What kind of energies are you picking up, anyway? Ever had a conversation with an orb?

John Jones3 said:I'll DM you my Chase account info—just toss $100 in there 😂
My abilities haven't been lying to me—it’s just that sometimes I play around too much and end up heading in the wrong direction. Based on your logic, the bar for enlightenment is set way too high; personally, I think you hit that stage long before you can actually interface with those energy guides. What kind of energies are you picking up, anyway? Ever had a conversation with an orb?

I honestly feel like personal powers can kick in way before you ever hit actual enlightenment, especially if you were just born with that kind of spiritual makeup—you know, maybe from some past life or whatever—or if you've just been grinding away at it during this lifetime. It’s kind of wild when you think about it, but I guess those individual abilities really start surfacing once someone can actually settle into a meditative state around 4 Hz or even lower. I was actually chatting with this doctor friend of mine recently, and he’s currently hitting about 2 Hz, which is pretty intense, and he says he’s started seeing energies and stuff... some are super clear and others are a bit more blurry, but basically, the more powerful the energy is, the harder it seems to be to actually perceive it, so I suppose you need a much higher level of development to truly wrap your head around the heavy hitters.

I mean, those aren't even my own personal standards or anything, it’s just what that energy guide lady posted, I guess. You can actually find some pretty similar vibes if you look into those Indian teachers and mystics, too. It’s definitely not like this is some easy task where everyone would be enlightened every other day, right? That’s basically the peak of human development, but honestly, people just have so many forgotten potentials buried inside them that they really need to kickstart before they can ever reach enlightenment. But I suppose the paths are all different—every single one is tough in its own way, whether it's a long haul or a bit quicker, and you might run into more or fewer detours along the way, maybe.

I mean, I’m honestly nowhere near being able to have a conscious, actual "conversation" with energies or whatever, if that makes sense. I’m definitely not out here trying to sprint ahead of the curve because, let's be real, that just isn't happening at my current level of development. I figure once I hit around that 4 Hz sweet spot, then maybe, just maybe, I'll start actually practicing any kind of specific abilities. See, the way spiritual growth works in this system is that you have to focus on the big picture first, you know? You gotta raise your overall baseline level, and only once things are sitting at a pretty solid, satisfactory stage do you even begin to specialize based on what you're naturally drawn to—like, using certain energies to manifest specific powers or working on things like clairvoyance or whatever someone might be practicing. Plus, you usually end up getting these little assignments or tasks from energy guides or other energies you've already made contact with. It’s honestly pretty hopeless when people try to force specialization without having that foundational level established, which I guess happens all the time because everyone is just so impatient or they're desperate to join some kind of spiritual elite. And if you try to go backward or rush it, some people end up in the hospital, especially if they start messing around with Kundalini before they're ready.
It’s kind of like when an athlete decides they want to dive into a specific sport, you know? They don't just jump straight into the deep end right away; instead, they spend all this time working on their general conditioning first, just building up that baseline fitness. And I guess the cool thing about that is, once they've actually got that solid foundation set, they suddenly have all these options because they can pick whatever sport they want to specialize in based on how fit they are.

So, I don't have any sight, which I guess could be seen as a downside, but honestly, I’m in no rush to change that or force anything, so I feel like I can really pick up on the energy and the fields around me much better this way. I've actually heard a bunch of my buddies mention this thing where a sort of screen just pops up right in front of your eyes, almost like you're staring at a television or something. Well, during the third or fourth time those Olympus energies were activating—I was just sitting there with my eyes closed on the bus, minding my own business—this screen suddenly appeared out of nowhere, and man, it was so crisp and high-contrast, just like watching a TV, with all these little circles and dots dancing around on this pink background. It totally caught me off guard because it was so vivid and clear, and it lasted for maybe ten seconds or so before fading. And the crazy part is, other people were seeing those exact same symbols on that same screen too.

Honestly, I guess I’m really just looking for that enlightenment phase and maybe that extra 5% boost, you know? Like, if some other powers or abilities start popping up along the way, then hey, whatever, they can show up whenever they feel like it because I’ll have basically forever to mess around with them and figure them out. Right now, though, I don't think I'd want to waste any precious time chasing all that other stuff.

So, I was thinking about what you saw, and honestly, there are just so many ways to look at it, right? Like, maybe you're just seeing things or having one of those little hallucinations—which happens to the best of us, I guess—but then again, it could be something way more intense, like some kind of intelligent energy or even the spirit of someone who’s passed on, maybe appearing as this little white cloud of pure bioenergy. Or, if we want to get really deep into the weeds, it might be what people call consciousness, which I think is that specific type of energy that hangs around specifically to help humans out, unlike all those other cosmic energies that just do their own thing in the universe without really caring about us. Then there's the whole possibility of a fully developed astral body, though if that were the case, it would probably show up right away or maybe it's actually your own consciousness reaching out to talk to you directly. The wild part is that all these different structures can pretty much take any shape they want, so like, Jesus wouldn't exactly show up to a Hindu, and Buddha probably wouldn't pop up for a Catholic, you know? They basically just pick whatever form they think we'll be comfortable with so we don't freak out when they show up.

I’m not giving any commission to you, I’m just handing it out to anyone who’s actually crazy enough to take it, haha. If anyone's interested, maybe just shoot me a PM here on the forum.

So, where can I actually get my brain waves tested to figure out what frequency I'm running on?

John Jones3 said:So, where can I actually get my brain waves tested to figure out what frequency I'm running on?

Well, I guess you could check out Wikipedia for something like this:

By using a non-invasive method called an electroencephalogram (EEG), it’s actually possible to distinguish between a few different types of "brain waves":

1. Delta – these signals run at about 0.5 to 3 Hz and you usually see them in kids, during really deep sleep, or maybe even with certain neurological issues like epilepsy.
2. Theta – frequencies ranging from 3 to 8 Hz. This is often linked to being dreamy, or things related to childhood and adolescence... you mostly see it during hypnosis, trances, or when you're drifting into light sleep.
3. Alpha – frequencies between 8 and 12 Hz. This is basically the signature of being relaxed but still alert and conscious. It shows up best when someone has their eyes closed. There's also this thing called the mu-rhythm, which is a variation of alpha. You'll find it in the motor cortex around the center of the brain, and it tends to spike whenever there's physical movement or even just the intention to move.
4. Beta – anything above 12 Hz. These have lower peak values but variable frequencies, and they're generally tied to when you're actively thinking or processing stuff.
5. Gamma – frequencies from 26 to 100 Hz. It's thought that these come from high-level mental activity, like intense perception, awareness, or even fear.
6. Sensorimotor rhythm (SMR) – frequencies from 12 to 16 Hz, which is more about feeling physically calm and staying present in your body.

Maybe try looking around for a clinic that does EEGs, and once they start the reading, I guess you could try making a quick request—like a short prayer or something—just to see which wave frequency it triggers. You could probably try it a few times and then just take the average, I suppose.

Frequencies below 0.5 Hz aren't really picked up by a standard EEG unless the machine is specifically calibrated for much lower ranges. In that 0.5 to 0.15 Hz zone, I feel like people are already tapping into energy, so those energies sort of "speak" to them if they're interested. Once you drop below 0.15 Hz and establish that connection with a guide, well, maybe you won't even care about the numbers anymore.

Honestly, if you aren't into meditating or praying, I don't know why you'd even bother checking all this out.

John Jones3 said:If you’re going to claim people should focus on themselves instead of me while simultaneously preaching about Oneness, you’re basically lying to yourself—there is no distinction between us in Oneness. We are all one, which means my experience is yours too, provided you actually open yourself up enough to learn from it. There isn't some arbitrary distance between me and anyone else here; I'm just sharing what I've lived through, though apparently, hearing someone's actual experience is an issue for you. Would it be better if we spent ten posts beating around the bush instead of just using plain English to say how things work? It really is that simple—you open the heart chakra (the third is the easiest starting point), then gradually move through the sixth, then all seven, and the path just unfolds without needing some rigid manual.

Could anyone maybe walk me through some specifics on how to open those two chakras, or even the others? Or if there's a specific book or something you'd suggest reading? There's just so much random stuff floating around online, it's hard to know what's legit...

In The Bible, there’s this idea that a true master defines knowledge as something distinct from actual awareness. There is a specific term used for this kind of information—let's call it accumulated knowledge. It isn't the same as true insight. This type of knowledge is just stuff you can collect and pile up. The opposite is ignorance. The text puts it bluntly: "The ignorant wander in blind darkness, but those who pile knowledge upon knowledge dwell in an even thicker gloom."

Whether we are talking about mere data or simple ignorance, both are just different flavors of sleepwalking. Neither helps you actually see reality for what it is. In fact, both fall short. The ignorant are already stumbling through the dark, mostly because they're already lost. They’re the students who are essentially asleep at the wheel, convinced their time hasn't come yet. At least they still have a shred of hope. They might take a hit or stumble hard enough to finally open their eyes. But the truly dangerous ones—those trapped in an even deeper kind of bondage—are the ones obsessively stacking facts on top of facts. That kind of accumulation is the most dangerous way to sleep. If you're just increasing the volume of information without improving the clarity of your vision, you aren't gaining insight; you're just collecting more weight. It’s ultimately useless and quite risky. A soul can get lost in its own library much more permanently than it can in simple ignorance.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Sacred Science

Jerry King11 said:In The Bible, there’s this idea that a true master defines knowledge as something distinct from actual awareness. There is a specific term used for this kind of information—let's call it accumulated knowledge. It isn't the same as true insight. This type of knowledge is just stuff you can collect and pile up. The opposite is ignorance. The text puts it bluntly: "The ignorant wander in blind darkness, but those who pile knowledge upon knowledge dwell in an even thicker gloom."

Whether we are talking about mere data or simple ignorance, both are just different flavors of sleepwalking. Neither helps you actually see reality for what it is. In fact, both fall short. The ignorant are already stumbling through the dark, mostly because they're already lost. They’re the students who are essentially asleep at the wheel, convinced their time hasn't come yet. At least they still have a shred of hope. They might take a hit or stumble hard enough to finally open their eyes. But the truly dangerous ones—those trapped in an even deeper kind of bondage—are the ones obsessively stacking facts on top of facts. That kind of accumulation is the most dangerous way to sleep. If you're just increasing the volume of information without improving the clarity of your vision, you aren't gaining insight; you're just collecting more weight. It’s ultimately useless and quite risky. A soul can get lost in its own library much more permanently than it can in simple ignorance.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Sacred Science

Haha, man, I've had that book sitting on my shelf for years and I haven't even cracked it open yet. Honestly, maybe just drop a few more quotes here so I can officially decide never to read it at all! 🙂

Gregory Jackson said:Haha, man, I've had that book sitting on my shelf for years and I haven't even cracked it open yet. Honestly, maybe just drop a few more quotes here so I can officially decide never to read it at all! 🙂

So, are you concluding it isn't worth the read? 😕

Jerry King11 said:So, are you concluding it isn't worth the read? 😕

Oh, not at all, I mean, I've sort of circled around her work a few times, I guess, but I always end up grabbing something else that focuses more on practical spirituality. I don't really have the bandwidth to sit around analyzing different spiritual movements—well, specifically her stuff—since, you know, I'm much more into the actual practice part, and I figure we can leave the deep academic analysis to the scientists and professors out there. But hey, if you've got a specific quote that hits the mark, maybe I'll feel like I actually saved some time reading it 🙂

Gregory Jackson said:Oh, not at all, I mean, I've sort of circled around her work a few times, I guess, but I always end up grabbing something else that focuses more on practical spirituality. I don't really have the bandwidth to sit around analyzing different spiritual movements—well, specifically her stuff—since, you know, I'm much more into the actual practice part, and I figure we can leave the deep academic analysis to the scientists and professors out there. But hey, if you've got a specific quote that hits the mark, maybe I'll feel like I actually saved some time reading it 🙂

Alright, picking up where I left off with the quotes: 🙂

Then comes the first stage of vidya—moving toward wakefulness. Following the three stages of stupor—deep sleep, dreaming, and waking—comes the fourth level (turiyam). This is the "awakened dreamer," the buddhi. This is the mahatma—the great soul—the highest state a soul can achieve. This true seeing, this true knowledge, isn't vidjna, which is merely material or mental knowledge, but rather vidya, which is pure awareness.

The first sign of this awakening is when a vague doubt begins to surface within a person: the idea that maya, or the sensory world, is nothing more than an illusion—as Plato puts it. It’s non-existent. The physical world is an illusion born from a lethargy shared by all living people. Once someone begins to perceive beyond the senses, they start to sense something *meta physika*, something beyond nature. That metaphysical touch is the first step toward true wakefulness.

Bela Hamvas, Scientia Sacra

P.S. For what it's worth, I think the whole of Bela Hamvas is worth reading. His insights evolved over time, so he’s prone to being contradictory in his own way (regardless of the specific passage quoted here).

A few pages later, from that same book:

That description following the passage about matter awakening and then forgetting itself—about repetition and the darkness outside—isn't particularly hard to wrap your head around. The image is vivid: a person surfaces, but they're so dazed, their soul so lethargic, dull, and blind, that they inevitably sink back down. Where to? Back into that external darkness. Then comes the question: "When does a person surface and actually stay up?" The answer is: "That person surfaces because they possess a healthy sense of self, a sense of trust, a sense of shame, a moral compass, a drive to act, and an ability to perceive. Their trust doesn't fluctuate; it stays constant. That sense of shame, their morality, their drive, and their perception—none of it ebbs or flows; it remains steady. That is how a person surfaces and manages to stay above.
They don't necessarily increase the soul's alertness, but they preserve it so they don't drown in the current all over again.