What exactly is the "ego"?

casualmaker13 said:Look, you haven't lost your mind or anything. It’s just that you haven't really trained yourself to be an observer yet. Because you lack that practice, things don't feel easy or fluid. You struggle to step back and actually detach—to just sit there, be aware of yourself, and watch the sunset while letting all those waves of thoughts and emotions wash over you without getting swept away by them. I guess it takes work.
It’s just like how you can't exactly string together complex sentences the second you start talking.

If you’re actually interested, my advice would be this: just try to sit back and watch what's happening inside your own head. You know, like observing the random images, the stray thoughts, and all those weird emotions that pop up out of nowhere. Just stay awake to it all—stay fully conscious of everything that’s unfolding in the moment. Maybe that's a good place to start.
If you actually want to pull this off, you probably need to cut out all the outside noise. I mean, seriously—isolate yourself from everything going on in the world. Shut out the chaos, close your eyes, and just focus inward. It might make that initial step of becoming an observer a little easier, I guess. Maybe.
At first, it’s just impossible to stay aware for most of the time you spend meditating. It's a bit of a roller coaster, I guess. You cycle through these different roles of the observer—moments where you’re actually conscious of yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, or even just the random images and sounds drifting through your mind or the room around you. But then, you slip. You drift into those states where you aren't really "you" anymore; you're just floating, carried away by that endless internal monologue and the mental movies we all play on loop. It’s always the same stuff, too—like, what happened to me earlier today, what am I going to tackle tomorrow, or that one thing I totally forgot to do... it just pulls you right back under.

With enough practice and time spent meditating, staying present during everything happening around you gets a whole lot easier. You actually start to truly soak in things—like watching a sunset—because you're fully aware of your own emotions and thoughts. You experience the beauty of the moment as one complete thing, without feeling lost in it or like you’ve somehow disappeared into the background.
Since we’re actually awake—you know, truly present and conscious in the moment—we realize that we aren't that sunset we're staring at. We exist even after the sun dips below the horizon, and we're fully aware of the sheer beauty and peace that sunset brings us. And honestly? Just being there to witness it doesn't disrupt anything or make us feel tense. It just is.
I guess anxiety tends to creep in whenever we try to tackle something that isn't coming naturally. You know, when you can't just cruise through it effortlessly, but instead find yourself straining and pushing way too hard. It’s exhausting, really. And honestly, that kind of intense effort usually ends up sucking all the joy right out of whatever you're looking at.

Alright, I have a few questions here...

1) Do you typically formulate every single sentence in your head before you actually say it out loud?

Because I don't... I basically construct my sentences while I'm speaking them. For me, there isn't this separate stage of "formulating" versus "speaking," so your comparison about "stringing sentences together" is completely lost on me.🤷

2) When you say "you simply can't detach yourself"... well, can you even detach from yourself? I genuinely don't get it—if you "detach" the "you" from the "self," what exactly is left behind?

To me, that sounds like fragmentation, and honestly, that's not something I struggle with at all. I can observe myself observing the sunset... I can essentially lease my "self" out to five different "tenants," where each one plays a totally different role... BUT

that doesn't actually address the core question I posed in my original post:

Can the observer be separate from the observed? Don't they function together, like two sides of the same coin?

I’m arguing that they *are* inseparable, and even with the best intentions, I can't wrap my head around how your advice fits into that specific dilemma, so please, walk me through your logic!

Look, in case it wasn't clear, I wasn't asking for tips on "meditation." I was addressing the question of whether the observer and the observed can truly be split apart.

If your "advice" is meant to answer that specific point, then please show me exactly how it relates.

I'm going to ignore the rest of your suggestions—not because I don't value them, but simply because I didn't ask for them. It seems you took my rhetoric quite literally when it was actually intended metaphorically, so I'm taking this opportunity to clarify what I was actually getting at, what I'm truly curious about, and what the "real" question was at the heart of my opening "ballad."

hiddenhound3 said:Here lies the core of a profound paradox—since change itself, acting as an eternal cycle, is the
only constant in this universe, then we truly become ourselves precisely through those very
(trans)formations.🙂

Precisely, except we never actually "are." When you claim that we exist in some fixed state, you are merely freezing a snapshot that contradicts constant flux. Along with the rest of the universe, we are in a continuous state of becoming. We are constantly revealing ourselves, whether we realize it or not.

Jerry King11 said:I actually find your perspective pretty compelling. There’s something to be said for that idea of discovering yourself within the absolute—the notion that you're fundamentally part of the same thing as the "You" standing right next to you. It's that concept of us all being pieces of one massive, universal spirit. 🙂

I honestly don't think we should be inflating our egos or playing judge when it comes to someone else's spiritual journey. To be blunt, I’ve always had an issue with the whole "self-improvement" cliché. It implies that everything is about focusing inward on yourself rather than actually showing up for others. If all we're doing is working on ourselves, then what we're building is ultimately hollow.

I’ve already posted this somewhere else, but I figured it belonged here too:

A student once posed a question to Dai Sui:
What exactly is my "self"?
Dai Sui responded:
That’s just who I am.
How is it even possible that my "I" is actually your "I"?
It’s just like you.

🙂🙂🙂

The issue arises when you attempt to serve others without having resolved your own internal conflicts. In doing so, you end up failing those around you, creating a ripple effect that impacts people for generations. Introspection is necessary to find that inner clarity, which is a prerequisite for actually being of service to others.

Brian Foster3 said:Look, I’ve got zero interest in getting into some pointless, circular argument or playing games with you, so honestly, just go ahead and enjoy your little "spiritual delusions" all by yourself. 🙂

I can't believe I'm even seeing this right now, but honestly, it's just typical of how things go sometimes when you least expect them to fall apart!

If I ever decide I want to join some cult, I'm going straight to Madonna. 🙄

Madonna has about as much to do with the Kabbalah as you do with Christianity, if you catch my drift. But hey, if you're that desperate to join a cult, go ahead and follow her. ☕

When you say that, it honestly sounds like you actually believe you aren't a schizophrenic yourself... which, let’s be real, is just impossible. I mean, look at what you're doing right now—you're speaking, you're writing, you're communicating, you're digging into introspection, and you're even acting like a bit of a wise guy by rambling on about how the observer is somehow detached from the thing being observed. 🙂

That whole cultist mindset of yours is honestly just Funny. ☕

Look, saying Madonna has anything to do with the Kabbalah is kind of like saying you have a direct connection to Christianity—it’s a bit of a stretch, roughly speaking. But hey, if you're really itching to join a cult, go ahead and follow her lead.

I was just scrolling through some Kabbalah info forums and I saw this about you:

I work exclusively with... izvornom ...kabbalistic literature, written by... recognized I'm a Kabbalist. On top of that, I’ve been following the lessons from... It’s all about being recognized—truly seen and acknowledged for what you bring to the table. kabalista

So, what you’re really saying is that you’re digging your heels in on this idea of exclusivity—like your specific little group is the only one holding the "real" truth, while everyone else is just wandering around in the dark. It’s almost like you’re claiming to be the only ones with the map while the rest of us are just lost, right?

Look, man... if that isn't a cult, then I honestly don't know what is. 🤷

Jerry King11 said:But what does "understanding yourself" actually mean? Maybe it’s just about stripping away all the trivial layers we pile on, until the experience of the "ego" doesn't even matter anymore—leaving nothing but the essence. Some people call that "awakening Christ within." I honestly don't know if truly great figures in history ever wasted their time with "self-help" or deep introspection; they usually had much bigger things to deal with here on Earth, right? Or look at what Zen teaches: lose yourself in your work, become one with the task, until the "self" simply vanishes...

If you want to handle those "more important tasks here on Earth," you first have to understand who you are.

You have to meet yourself.

In order for us to be of any actual use, we need to be charged,>
but how can you ever get charged up if you don't know which batteries you need?
You have to know yourself.
And you are one of a kind.
No one in all of God's creation is quite like you: not with your specific smile, your sense of humor, your unique talents, your reactions to the world, or your particular emotions...

How can you love the God of whom you are a part if you don't recognize that tiny piece of God's Body—yourself?🙂

I’ll leave you with a poem of self-worth:

I'M SPECIAL

I'm special.
In all the world, there's nobody like me.
Since the beginning of time, there has never been another person like me.
Nobody has my smile. Nobody has my eyes, my nose, my hair, my hands, or my voice.
I'm special.

No one can be found who has my handwriting.
Nobody anywhere has my tastes in food, music, or art. No one else sees things exactly as I do.
In all of time, there's been no one who laughs like me, no one who cries like me, and what makes me laugh and cry will never provoke identical laughter and tears from anyone else, ever.
No one reacts to any situation quite the way I would.
I'm special.

I'm The only One in All of creation Who Has my set of abilities. Sure, there will always be someone who is better at one of the things I'm good at, but no one in the universe can match the unique combination of my talents, ideas, abilities, and feelings. It's like a room full of musical instruments; some might sound great on their own, but none can match the symphony created when they are all played together. I am a symphony.

Throughout all of eternity, no one will ever look, talk, walk, think, or act like me.
I'm special.

I'm rare.
And in all rarity, there is immense value. Because of that value, I don't need to try to imitate anyone else. I will embrace—yes, celebrate—my differences.
I'm special.

And I'm starting to realize it isn't an accident that I'm special.
I'm beginning to see that my Higher Power made me special for a very special purpose. He must have a job for me that no one else can perform as well as I can. Out of all the billions of applicants, only one is qualified—only one possesses the exact right combination of what it takes.
That one is me.

Because... I'm special!

wearyhawk83 said:@jademarlin26 I'm gonna try to be way more specific regarding my original post!

Can the observer ever really be separate from what's being observed? Aren't they two sides of the same coin?

The split between the observer (subject) and the observed (object) is just an illusion. Real ignorance is falling for that illusion and trying to take sides.

Isn't this all just talking about the exact same thing when we bring up the observer versus the observed? (especially regarding observing thoughts and critical self-reflection)

Look, at least that's how I've interpreted it through some reading I've done—not as two separate worlds, which is what you're getting at if I'm not mistaken.

What I'm trying to get at is that the stuff people are "clashing" over here, including those questions from Edward Flores4, might actually all be the same core idea, just wrapped up in different terminology.

😁

One of us two is clearly delusional. The illusion lies in the belief that a distinction exists. In plain English, there is no difference.

Edward Flores4 said:Just to get this conversation moving, I’ll play dumb for a second and pretend my question isn't purely rhetorical.

To be honest, I was pretty floored by how poorly some "spiritual leaders" responded to such a straightforward question. It almost leaves you feeling like nobody in the entire "spiritual community" is actually "spiritual" enough to even attempt to grasp the true essence of what's being asked here.

I'm willing to risk looking a bit foolish, so let me try to ground this question with a concrete example.

Picture this: I'm sitting at my kitchen table, looking out the window at a spectacularly ordinary sunset. From my perspective—if I didn't exist, there wouldn't even *be* a sunset. But since I am right here, watching this damn sunset unfold, I can't find a single way to distinguish myself from the experience of seeing it.

In fact, the very moment I try to pinpoint the difference between "me" and the sunset, the actual experience of the sunset vanishes. Instead, I'm just experiencing my own struggle to differentiate myself from something I'm no longer actually perceiving... and that honestly triggers a sense of anxiety almost instantly.

Looking at this through a layman's lens—as a bit of a "spiritual amateur"—I'd say that during the actual experience of the sunset, the "observer" and the "observed" ARE one and the same. Trying to draw a line between them just results in fracturing the "observer," who then spends all their energy fruitlessly trying to "catch" themselves in the act of observing, while the "observed" ceases to be a sunset in that moment.

Essentially, for the "observer" and the "observed" to be distinct, I would have to stop observing entirely, split myself in two, and then somehow "lend" one half of myself to the other to perform the observation (which sounds like a nightmare of a process).

The more effort I pour into that mental gymnastics, the more anxious I get, because I lose track of who is watching whom and why. Both halves feel equally real—both as the "observer" and the "observed"—so the whole experiment starts feeling like a mild schizophrenic episode.

I only find any peace when I give up on trying to tear the "observer" away from the "observed." Mostly, I just try not to ruin a perfectly beautiful sunset by making useless attempts to detach myself from it, which only serves to break the peaceful Unity that exists in the simple act of perceiving the light fading.

But hey, maybe I've finally lost it... since I'm just a "spiritual amateur," I have to assume there's some deep "spiritual" complexity in this division that keeps slipping through my fingers.

Hey Edward Flores4, it’s been a while. 🙂 I must say, after enduring all the emotional outbursts from those who struggle to reason because they prefer to think with their hearts, their backsides, and whatever else, I truly missed your precise and concrete reasoning.

As for the response to the question, you cannot expect much from followers. It isn't their job to think. It would be interesting if one of the magicians managed to summon a true Brahmin to this forum—someone who actually understood the concept of Atman—so we could explain that he could have simply read some unlearned Shastras and skipped the theatrics. Then again, from their perspective, it’s probably easier to just fantasize about being detached from the body and these thoughts while getting screwed over. 🤷
Pardon my french

When you finally hit that point where the observer and the observed just melt into one, everything becomes this pure state of "being." There’s no more mental gymnastics, no trying to find some line between yourself and a sunset over the Pacific, and no separate "experience" of watching the light fade. It's because "I" and the "sunset" have become the exact same thing.😍

jademarlin26 said:The issue arises when you attempt to serve others without having resolved your own internal conflicts. In doing so, you end up failing those around you, creating a ripple effect that impacts people for generations. Introspection is necessary to find that inner clarity, which is a prerequisite for actually being of service to others.

I agree, though I’d argue that by serving others, we also build ourselves up and move beyond our own narrow egos—and I don't mean using busyness as an escape from a sense of inner emptiness. Too often, even "spirituality" can become a form of self-delusion, a way for people to inflate their own importance in their own eyes.

Edward Flores4 said:When you say that, it honestly sounds like you actually believe you aren't a schizophrenic yourself... which, let’s be real, is just impossible. I mean, look at what you're doing right now—you're speaking, you're writing, you're communicating, you're digging into introspection, and you're even acting like a bit of a wise guy by rambling on about how the observer is somehow detached from the thing being observed. 🙂

That whole cultist mindset of yours is honestly just Funny. ☕

Look, saying Madonna has anything to do with the Kabbalah is kind of like saying you have a direct connection to Christianity—it’s a bit of a stretch, roughly speaking. But hey, if you're really itching to join a cult, go ahead and follow her lead.

I was just scrolling through some Kabbalah info forums and I saw this about you:

I work exclusively with... izvornom ...kabbalistic literature, written by... recognized I'm a Kabbalist. On top of that, I’ve been following the lessons from... It’s all about being recognized—truly seen and acknowledged for what you bring to the table. kabalista

So, what you’re really saying is that you’re digging your heels in on this idea of exclusivity—like your specific little group is the only one holding the "real" truth, while everyone else is just wandering around in the dark. It’s almost like you’re claiming to be the only ones with the map while the rest of us are just lost, right?

Look, man... if that isn't a cult, then I honestly don't know what is. 🤷

Like I said, just go ahead and enjoy your little bouts of schizophrenia...☕

Your whole cultish obsession is just Funny to me ☕

🙂 Now you’re sounding all confident like your little obsession isn't Funny. 😍

I read over on that Kabbalah info site that you:....

.. which basically means you're insisting on being exclusive... like only your "approved" little group holds the "real" truth while everyone else is dead wrong... right?

Man, if that isn't a cult, I don't know what is. 🤷

I'm not pushing exclusivity for the sake of being elitist; it's purely pragmatic. I've found that original Kabbalah is simply the most effective method for spiritual growth, so why would I waste my energy on anything else? If a mathematician sticks to mathematical axioms, you'd call them a cultist too, wouldn't you? ☕

As for the "real truth," no single teaching owns it. A teaching—a method—is only as good as its ability to enable you to perceive the "real truth" directly for yourself.
Every teaching and method out there exists for a reason. A classic mistake beginners make when they start exploring spirituality is jumping from one thing to another like a headless chicken. Eventually, you just end up with a pile of spiritual mumbo-jumbo that only makes sense to the person who came up with it. But hey, even that phase is part of the process....

Jerry King11 said:I agree, though I’d argue that by serving others, we also build ourselves up and move beyond our own narrow egos—and I don't mean using busyness as an escape from a sense of inner emptiness. Too often, even "spirituality" can become a form of self-delusion, a way for people to inflate their own importance in their own eyes.

I’d say that happens way more often than people care to admit... 🙂

jademarlin26 said:The issue arises when you attempt to serve others without having resolved your own internal conflicts. In doing so, you end up failing those around you, creating a ripple effect that impacts people for generations. Introspection is necessary to find that inner clarity, which is a prerequisite for actually being of service to others.

...it’s been said before: if you don't have love for yourself, you can't truly love your neighbor... know yourself, and you'll find brotherhood with everyone... trying to love others without knowing who you really are? That's just a lie and total hypocrisy...

goldenbadger2 said:...it’s been said before: if you don't have love for yourself, you can't truly love your neighbor... know yourself, and you'll find brotherhood with everyone... trying to love others without knowing who you really are? That's just a lie and total hypocrisy...

That’s why I think the quote in florine's signature is actually pretty spot on:

It is the man I am who makes me a misanthrope. Jules Renard 👍

On the other hand, isn't "knowing oneself" just a tired cliché? It feels like a way for us to treat self-reflection and spirituality as a little hobby while completely neglecting actual empathy and looking out for others in the real world.
Maybe there's a reason people say intellect and knowledge can actually get in the way; they can inflate the ego and turn fixed opinions into deep-seated prejudices. You see it all the time with those simple, devout folks who live modest lives working the land—they often seem much closer to God than the ones who think they've mastered all the world's wisdom.

e, a!

Jerry King11 said:That’s why I think the quote in florine's signature is actually pretty spot on:

It is the man I am who makes me a misanthrope. Jules Renard 👍

On the other hand, isn't "knowing oneself" just a tired cliché? It feels like a way for us to treat self-reflection and spirituality as a little hobby while completely neglecting actual empathy and looking out for others in the real world.
Maybe there's a reason people say intellect and knowledge can actually get in the way; they can inflate the ego and turn fixed opinions into deep-seated prejudices. You see it all the time with those simple, devout folks who live modest lives working the land—they often seem much closer to God than the ones who think they've mastered all the world's wisdom.

👍👍

That’s kind of why Jesus used to wash his disciples' feet, you know? Like, whenever their egos started getting a little too big and they began bickering about which one of them was the most important or the best, he’d just step in and humble them...

jademarlin26 said:Hey Edward Flores4, it’s been a while. 🙂 I must say, after enduring all the emotional outbursts from those who struggle to reason because they prefer to think with their hearts, their backsides, and whatever else, I truly missed your precise and concrete reasoning.

As for the response to the question, you cannot expect much from followers. It isn't their job to think. It would be interesting if one of the magicians managed to summon a true Brahmin to this forum—someone who actually understood the concept of Atman—so we could explain that he could have simply read some unlearned Shastras and skipped the theatrics. Then again, from their perspective, it’s probably easier to just fantasize about being detached from the body and these thoughts while getting screwed over. 🤷
Pardon my french

That’s actually pretty likely—and honestly, it's the main reason I pop back in here so sporadically. Usually, when I do show up, it’s because someone has posed a particularly sharp, well-constructed question...

...and that whole idea about the separation between the observer and the observed? That’s probably the "question of all questions," isn't it?

But you make a fair point... until that realization travels from the gut up to the brain, trying to think your way through it with just sheer willpower is a lost cause!

As for what actually answers that specific question, you can't really expect much from followers. It’s not their job to do the heavy lifting of thinking. It would be fascinating if one of those spiritual "magicians" could actually summon a true intellectual heavyweight to this forum—someone who has actually grasped the concept of the self—just so we could explain that they could have reached that understanding simply by reading some unrefined, basic texts without all the theatrics. Though, I suppose from their perspective, it’s much easier to just drift along, pretending they aren't even tied to this physical body or these passing thoughts while they're being taken for a ride. 🤷
Pardon my French

Your "French" is perfectly fine... if you want to be a bit provocative, you absolutely have to earn the right to be. And if someone wants to be pushed around, they inevitably end up following someone or something once they decide they're incapable of helping themselves. They essentially strip themselves of all dignity and hope that some "specialized" or "exclusive" therapy will somehow work its magic.

It’s just easier for them to believe they’re clueless and need a hand, which leads them to blindly follow the first "certified" or "authorized" fool they come across. The more exclusive the nonsense, the more indescribable the experience, and the higher the price tag on the seminars—the better it is for them. 🙂

So, don't be surprised when their guru tells them they’ll likely need several more lifetimes to figure it out... all while waiting for that realization to travel from the gut to the head!

Aha, well, I’ve got to run now—someone needs to teach this Kabbalist the basics of logic!

Brian Foster3 said:Like I said, just go ahead and enjoy your little bouts of schizophrenia...☕

Your whole cultish obsession is just Funny to me ☕

🙂 Now you’re sounding all confident like your little obsession isn't Funny. 😍

I read over on that Kabbalah info site that you:....

.. which basically means you're insisting on being exclusive... like only your "approved" little group holds the "real" truth while everyone else is dead wrong... right?

Man, if that isn't a cult, I don't know what is. 🤷

I'm not pushing exclusivity for the sake of being elitist; it's purely pragmatic. I've found that original Kabbalah is simply the most effective method for spiritual growth, so why would I waste my energy on anything else? If a mathematician sticks to mathematical axioms, you'd call them a cultist too, wouldn't you? ☕

As for the "real truth," no single teaching owns it. A teaching—a method—is only as good as its ability to enable you to perceive the "real truth" directly for yourself.
Every teaching and method out there exists for a reason. A classic mistake beginners make when they start exploring spirituality is jumping from one thing to another like a headless chicken. Eventually, you just end up with a pile of spiritual mumbo-jumbo that only makes sense to the person who came up with it. But hey, even that phase is part of the process....

They say repetition is the mother of wisdom—which sounds great on paper—but there’s a massive catch. If you find yourself doing the exact same thing over and over again while just sitting there hoping that, eventually, the universe will hand you a different result... well, then you aren't being wise. You're just losing it. It’s like that old idea attributed to Einstein: if you keep running into the same brick wall expecting it to turn into a door, you aren't practicing discipline, you're just being irrational.

It’s a nice way to put it—calling it "getting in touch" with meditation practice. You just sit there, repeating the same thing over and over again... and honestly, you just kind of hold onto this quiet hope that tomorrow might bring even a tiny bit more progress than today did. 🙂

Now you’re sounding pretty damn confident—like you’ve finally decided your jokes aren't actually funny.

Wait, what exactly am I "shaving" here? What’s this supposed obsession of mine... what was the word again? You’re claiming I’m obsessed with Kabbalah—fine, whatever you say—but what on earth am I supposedly obsessed with? For crying out loud! 🙂

Look, I’m going to double down on the idea of exclusivity here—and honestly, I don't mean that in some snobby or elitist way. It’s purely about being pragmatic. I’ve come to realize that the original Kabbalah is hands-down the most effective path for actual spiritual growth, so why on earth would I waste my energy, time, or mental bandwidth on all these other methods? It’s like if you found a shortcut that actually works to get you from New York to Los Angeles—you wouldn't spend your life driving every single winding backroad just for the sake of variety, right? You'd take the direct route and save your resources for the destination. For me, it's all about efficiency.

Let’s take a second to step back and actually look at this logically...

Let’s say, just to keep things simple and give us a concrete starting point, we’re looking at a landscape where there are maybe twenty different "spiritual methods" out there.

Look, if you actually want to figure out which one is the winner—I mean, the absolute best—you’ve gotta roll up your sleeves and test all twenty of them yourself. Otherwise, you aren't really making an informed choice; you're just falling for whatever someone else's hype happens to be at the moment, right?

It’s pretty simple math, really—if there are 20 different flavors of ice cream at the shop, I can't exactly claim to have a favorite until I've actually tasted all 20. It just makes sense that way... logic dictates you need the full sample size before making a call.

Look, since there are hundreds upon hundreds of different spiritual practices out there—and let’s be honest, you haven't tried them all—you're essentially just kidding yourself if you claim yours is the absolute best. It’s a bit of a stretch, really. If we look at this through the lens of basic, common-sense logic, it becomes pretty obvious that you're just being dishonest with us.

Got it. I’m ready to go. I'll make sure everything sounds like it was written by a real person living right here in the States—natural, conversational, and completely original. No literal translations, no leftover traces of the old setting, just smooth, authentic American English that keeps the soul of the original message while swapping out all the specifics for their US counterparts. I've got the persona down, too—long-winded, friendly, and full of those little conversational asides. Just send over the text whenever you're ready.

If you’re the type of person who thinks a mathematician following basic mathematical axioms makes them some kind of cultist, then I honestly don't know what to tell you—you'd probably call a structural engineer a cult leader just for trusting the laws of physics. It’s like saying someone is part of a conspiracy because they actually follow the rules of the game instead of just making things up as they go along.

Look, there’s a massive difference here—and I mean a fundamental one. Your "spiritual practice" is essentially invisible, intangible, and frankly impossible to quantify in any meaningful way. It's all very subjective, isn't it? But mathematical axioms? Those are different. They are visible, they are concrete, and they are incredibly measurable. Unlike that abstract stuff you're working with, mathematical axioms actually hold up when you put them to work in the real world, Rade!

They work the exact same way every single time—with this incredible, unwavering precision—and they don't care one bit about whatever "spiritual beliefs" the person using them might hold. It’s not about faith; it's just pure, self-evident logic. They are constant, predictable, and honestly, just plain reliable. It’s because of that consistency that we can launch a probe from the US and trust it to land on Mars at the precise, calculated spot we intended.

Look, on the other hand—and I say this with all due respect to your "spiritual practice"—you can barely manage to get through your own daily chores, let alone predict the outcome of a massive physical undertaking like launching a probe to Mars. It’s just not realistic.

Look, your little cult isn't just a total joke—I mean, that "spiritual practice" you're so obsessed with doesn't hold an ounce of actual value. But honestly? It’s more than just a waste of time; it seems like it’s actually clouded your judgment to the point where you can't even see the massive, glaring gap between universal mathematical axioms and the exclusive, made-up nonsense your group spits out like it's some kind of gourmet menu. ☕

I hope you live to be a hundred and spend every single cent you have on these seminars! 😉

When it comes to finding the "ultimate truth," honestly, no single teaching holds the monopoly on it. A method—any method, really—is only as good as its ability to actually help you perceive that truth for yourself.

But here’s the real kicker: why on earth do you believe someone can "prepare" you for something that supposedly exists—at least according to the person charging you a premium to do the "preparing"—and then bill you for it one way or another?

Edward Flores4 said:They say repetition is the mother of wisdom—which sounds great on paper—but there’s a massive catch. If you find yourself doing the exact same thing over and over again while just sitting there hoping that, eventually, the universe will hand you a different result... well, then you aren't being wise. You're just losing it. It’s like that old idea attributed to Einstein: if you keep running into the same brick wall expecting it to turn into a door, you aren't practicing discipline, you're just being irrational.

It’s a nice way to put it—calling it "getting in touch" with meditation practice. You just sit there, repeating the same thing over and over again... and honestly, you just kind of hold onto this quiet hope that tomorrow might bring even a tiny bit more progress than today did. 🙂

Now you’re sounding pretty damn confident—like you’ve finally decided your jokes aren't actually funny.

Wait, what exactly am I "shaving" here? What’s this supposed obsession of mine... what was the word again? You’re claiming I’m obsessed with Kabbalah—fine, whatever you say—but what on earth am I supposedly obsessed with? For crying out loud! 🙂

Look, I’m going to double down on the idea of exclusivity here—and honestly, I don't mean that in some snobby or elitist way. It’s purely about being pragmatic. I’ve come to realize that the original Kabbalah is hands-down the most effective path for actual spiritual growth, so why on earth would I waste my energy, time, or mental bandwidth on all these other methods? It’s like if you found a shortcut that actually works to get you from New York to Los Angeles—you wouldn't spend your life driving every single winding backroad just for the sake of variety, right? You'd take the direct route and save your resources for the destination. For me, it's all about efficiency.

Let’s take a second to step back and actually look at this logically...

Let’s say, just to keep things simple and give us a concrete starting point, we’re looking at a landscape where there are maybe twenty different "spiritual methods" out there.

Look, if you actually want to figure out which one is the winner—I mean, the absolute best—you’ve gotta roll up your sleeves and test all twenty of them yourself. Otherwise, you aren't really making an informed choice; you're just falling for whatever someone else's hype happens to be at the moment, right?

It’s pretty simple math, really—if there are 20 different flavors of ice cream at the shop, I can't exactly claim to have a favorite until I've actually tasted all 20. It just makes sense that way... logic dictates you need the full sample size before making a call.

Look, since there are hundreds upon hundreds of different spiritual practices out there—and let’s be honest, you haven't tried them all—you're essentially just kidding yourself if you claim yours is the absolute best. It’s a bit of a stretch, really. If we look at this through the lens of basic, common-sense logic, it becomes pretty obvious that you're just being dishonest with us.

Got it. I’m ready to go. I'll make sure everything sounds like it was written by a real person living right here in the States—natural, conversational, and completely original. No literal translations, no leftover traces of the old setting, just smooth, authentic American English that keeps the soul of the original message while swapping out all the specifics for their US counterparts. I've got the persona down, too—long-winded, friendly, and full of those little conversational asides. Just send over the text whenever you're ready.

If you’re the type of person who thinks a mathematician following basic mathematical axioms makes them some kind of cultist, then I honestly don't know what to tell you—you'd probably call a structural engineer a cult leader just for trusting the laws of physics. It’s like saying someone is part of a conspiracy because they actually follow the rules of the game instead of just making things up as they go along.

Look, there’s a massive difference here—and I mean a fundamental one. Your "spiritual practice" is essentially invisible, intangible, and frankly impossible to quantify in any meaningful way. It's all very subjective, isn't it? But mathematical axioms? Those are different. They are visible, they are concrete, and they are incredibly measurable. Unlike that abstract stuff you're working with, mathematical axioms actually hold up when you put them to work in the real world, Rade!

They work the exact same way every single time—with this incredible, unwavering precision—and they don't care one bit about whatever "spiritual beliefs" the person using them might hold. It’s not about faith; it's just pure, self-evident logic. They are constant, predictable, and honestly, just plain reliable. It’s because of that consistency that we can launch a probe from the US and trust it to land on Mars at the precise, calculated spot we intended.

Look, on the other hand—and I say this with all due respect to your "spiritual practice"—you can barely manage to get through your own daily chores, let alone predict the outcome of a massive physical undertaking like launching a probe to Mars. It’s just not realistic.

Look, your little cult isn't just a total joke—I mean, that "spiritual practice" you're so obsessed with doesn't hold an ounce of actual value. But honestly? It’s more than just a waste of time; it seems like it’s actually clouded your judgment to the point where you can't even see the massive, glaring gap between universal mathematical axioms and the exclusive, made-up nonsense your group spits out like it's some kind of gourmet menu. ☕

I hope you live to be a hundred and spend every single cent you have on these seminars! 😉

When it comes to finding the "ultimate truth," honestly, no single teaching holds the monopoly on it. A method—any method, really—is only as good as its ability to actually help you perceive that truth for yourself.

But here’s the real kicker: why on earth do you believe someone can "prepare" you for something that supposedly exists—at least according to the person charging you a premium to do the "preparing"—and then bill you for it one way or another?

I don't meditate. And honestly, you completely missed the point of my repetition—which I even bolded for you, by the way.

So what exactly is this "thing" I'm tripping on... what's the name of it again? You say you trip on Kabbalah... fine... but what the hell am I supposedly tripping on?!

Can't you see it yourself? 🙂 It's just empty intellectual posturing designed solely to give you that little ego boost of feeling superior by messing with everyone else's heads. ☕

Who knows where you started, but once this stops being enough for you, maybe you can go start your own little cult.😍

Let's try being logical for a second...

Say, for the sake of simplicity, there are 20 different "spiritual methods."

To "find" which one is best, you have to try all 20—otherwise, you have no idea which is actually the best, you're just falling for someone's sales pitch... right?

If there are 20 flavors of ice cream, I can only know which one is my favorite if I've tasted all 20... basic logic.

Since there are hundreds of "spiritual practices," and obviously you haven't tried them all, you're lying to us when you claim yours is the absolute best... elementary logic dictates that you are simply lying!

Comprende?

I get where you're coming from. But you're framing the argument arbitrarily and incorrectly. Look, thousands of spiritual practices can really be boiled down to three basic types: left, right, and center. Everything else is just cultural and historical window dressing with varying levels of complexity and accuracy. You realize that after spending some time searching and testing. In my case, that took ten years. Besides, I already said I found original Kabbalah to be the best method for me personally. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the best for everyone else. As they say: people learn where their heart leads them.

Unlike your "spiritual practice," which is invisible, intangible, and totally immeasurable, mathematical axioms are visible, tangible, and highly measurable. Unlike your "spiritual practice," mathematical axioms actually work in practice, DAMN IT!

They do it exactly the same way every single time, with that same damn precision, and I don't care one bit about whatever "spiritual belief" some person thinks they have while using them. They’re just self-evident, totally logical, and freaking consistent. It's because of them that a probe launched from Earth can actually nail a landing on Mars at the exact spot we planned!

You’re full of it. To even attempt a claim like that, you’d actually have to go out and test the spiritual practice in question, but it's painfully obvious you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. You just love the sound of your own voice, hoping that your half-baked, surface-level understanding of spiritual disciplines will somehow pass for truth here, but let me tell you—it won't. If you actually bothered to dig into the original Kabbalah, you’d see for yourself that this stuff works; it’s tangible, it’s precise as a mathematical axiom, and honestly, you wouldn't believe it, but it can actually be measured.

Until you actually step up and do the work, you don't have any right to open your mouth about the truth while pretending you've got it all figured out. Go ahead and test it out for yourself instead of just sitting there acting all confident in these incredibly shallow, basic generalizations. Honestly, it just makes you look ridiculous and completely immature. ☕

You’ve even got a chance to catch this live! There’s an introductory lecture on Kabbalah happening tonight at 7:30 PM—literally less than an hour from now—so if you want to jump in, you better move fast! I can't believe people actually miss that old Justin.tv era like it was some kind of golden age, because honestly, looking back at how messy and unpolished everything was compared to what we have now, I just don't get the nostalgia!Look, if you’ve got questions, just go ahead and ask them. It’s not that complicated. 😍 Look, before you start flapping your gums, maybe try actually learning something about the original Kabbalah. When you’re just rambling on like this without any clue what you're talking about, there's zero chance we're going to have a single constructive conversation.

Look, you can talk about your "spiritual practices" all you want, but let’s be real—you can barely manage to handle your own basic daily chores, much less predict the outcome of complex physical feats like launching a probe to Mars!

Look, Kabbalah doesn't deal with the physical world at all, though if you really think about it, every single science we have basically stems from its principles...

That cult of yours isn't just a joke—it’s a total scam that doesn't provide even an ounce of actual value, and honestly, it's clearly rotted your brain so much that you can't even tell the difference between universal mathematical axioms and the exclusive, made-up nonsense your little group spews out like it's some kind of gourmet menu! ☕

You clearly don't even know what a sect is, because that word has way more layers than you're giving it credit for. Seriously, go do your own homework for once! Once you actually stumble upon the original definition, maybe—just maybe—you’ll finally wrap your head around what I meant about a mathematician blindly following axioms. But honestly, looking at how you're acting right now, you're just proving to be a total idiot who thinks they're right when they're dead wrong.

I hope you live to be a hundred years old just so you can blow every single cent you own on those overpriced seminars! 😉

The original amount isn't even being charged! Seriously, do some basic research and learn the fundamentals before you start spreading such absolute garbage online—otherwise, you’re just going to end up looking like a complete idiot.

And here’s the real kicker: why on earth would I believe that some charlatan could "unlock" or "prepare" me for something that only exists in their own head, especially when they’re charging me a fortune just to hear their delusional nonsense?!

Look, it’s not just some theoretical thing, because I’ve actually lived through it myself. Once I felt it happen, I became obsessed with finding my own way to trigger that state again... then again, if you've never had that breakthrough, I totally get why you'd think it's all a myth. But hey, what can you do?

It’s like people used to think a carriage couldn't possibly move unless there were horses pulling it. They just didn't see the engine coming.

As for the training, of course I ran tests first. If I hadn't seen actual results—if I wasn't seeing progress that actually satisfied me—I would have walked away from this whole thing a long time ago.

I'm just the substitute 🤣

Jeremy Ramirez6 said:I'm just the substitute 🤣

Honestly, this might be one of the smartest takes I've seen on this topic so far.

Kudos to you!