Do you feel like the Republican Party has been robbing you blind over the last 20 years?

Karen Rodriguez3 said:Seems like you might be missing the bigger picture here.
If you're stuck working in an environment that's constantly draining you, how are you supposed to actually grow?
The government's gotta ensure a healthy foundation. I thought that was obvious.

And yeah, a country that doesn't export anything—let alone rely on exports—isn't going to get hit by a global recession quite as hard as you're trying to make it sound.
We kind of tripped ourselves up; we didn't even need a recession.

That’s interesting... I know a ton of people who run their own businesses; everything from design firms to software dev, consulting, PR, you name it. Everyone is doing pretty well for themselves, honestly. They all seem to be expanding year after year, and they're always scratching their heads wondering why others aren't jumping into sectors where there's a massive shortage of experts. So, who's really holding you back from growing? I guess it’s kind of silly to blame the government for absolutely everything.

Quincy:

And yeah, a country that doesn't export much—let alone rely heavily on exports—isn't going to get hit by a global recession nearly as hard as you're trying to make it out to be. We basically tripped ourselves up; we didn't even need a recession to cause us trouble.

I mean, we messed things up a long time ago, but that doesn't change the fact that this crisis hasn't wrecked us the way it would have if we were a more developed nation. Like, what could actually happen to us? Will foreign-owned banks just hike up interest rates? And then what? If they lose their customer base, they lose it. There's really no way.

briskbison55 said:you know why that coalition lost the election? because their entire platform was basically just one highway project at a time, and that was right when they realized they'd spent more than half their term just bickering amongst themselves. Honestly, the Republican Party barely had to lift a finger to take over. Now they're complaining about calling the IMF, but even Račan called the IMF back in the day. They whine about highways while they were actually building much more expensive ones. And so on, and so forth... it's all just one big mess. Though, I guess nobody on their side got hit by it either because, like I said before, it's all the same old story—everyone is looking out for each other.

It's just a shame if some people actually fall for the spin about those "tough measures" being the reason they lost the election.

The Republican Party called the IMF twice before Bill Clinton did, but because they were so incompetent, they had to pay everything back...

Are you even aware of that?

Austin Gonzalez13 said:There it is again—that tired old cliché that just doesn't hold water. Foreign debt and national debt aren't even the same thing... honestly, maybe stick to topics you actually understand, because this clearly isn't your lane. External debt is driven by citizens (well, in our case), whereas the actual state debt is the responsibility of the President.

Good grief... :-) okay, fine, I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

briskbison55 said:Good grief... :-) okay, fine, I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

Can't handle a solid argument, I guess. Typical. ☕

briskbison55 said:That’s interesting... I know a ton of people who run their own businesses; everything from design firms to software dev, consulting, PR, you name it. Everyone is doing pretty well for themselves, honestly. They all seem to be expanding year after year, and they're always scratching their heads wondering why others aren't jumping into sectors where there's a massive shortage of experts. So, who's really holding you back from growing? I guess it’s kind of silly to blame the government for absolutely everything.

Quincy:

And yeah, a country that doesn't export much—let alone rely heavily on exports—isn't going to get hit by a global recession nearly as hard as you're trying to make it out to be. We basically tripped ourselves up; we didn't even need a recession to cause us trouble.

I mean, we messed things up a long time ago, but that doesn't change the fact that this crisis hasn't wrecked us the way it would have if we were a more developed nation. Like, what could actually happen to us? Will foreign-owned banks just hike up interest rates? And then what? If they lose their customer base, they lose it. There's really no way.

Case in point: I jumped into an industry that’s barely even established here in the States... though I needed some land because of the nature of the business... specifically in a commercial zone...

From that very first contact to the day construction wrapped up, we’re talking almost three years... the actual building of the facilities and getting production online took exactly 67 days...

Everything else was just endless paperwork—running from one desk to another, dealing with people who were supposed to handle my bureaucratic permits but just failed to do their jobs, and whatnot...

And now? Business is better than "solid"... but there was a moment where I nearly lost the whole damn thing...

Three years of red tape...

briskbison55 said:That’s interesting... I know a ton of people who run their own businesses; everything from design firms to software dev, consulting, PR, you name it. Everyone is doing pretty well for themselves, honestly. They all seem to be expanding year after year, and they're always scratching their heads wondering why others aren't jumping into sectors where there's a massive shortage of experts. So, who's really holding you back from growing? I guess it’s kind of silly to blame the government for absolutely everything.

Quincy:

And yeah, a country that doesn't export much—let alone rely heavily on exports—isn't going to get hit by a global recession nearly as hard as you're trying to make it out to be. We basically tripped ourselves up; we didn't even need a recession to cause us trouble.

I mean, we messed things up a long time ago, but that doesn't change the fact that this crisis hasn't wrecked us the way it would have if we were a more developed nation. Like, what could actually happen to us? Will foreign-owned banks just hike up interest rates? And then what? If they lose their customer base, they lose it. There's really no way.

Maybe ask them how business is going *right now*. You know, specifically this month. I mean, sure, if they're mostly working with companies here in the States.
You want me to tell you what it's like in manufacturing?

Adam Collins4 said:Oh, you're absolutely right, it's all just nonsense...

And the absolute peak of your argumentation is resorting to insults... kid, I don't kiss anyone's feet unless I actually believe the idiocy they're writing about...

And you—you can keep denying it all you want—but George W. Bush, along with his cronies, was out there rambling that there was no crisis coming... and claiming we had zero mechanisms to soften the blow...

I mean, seriously, it took us two whole years after the crash just to start trying to set up a fund to help those hit by the recession...

So, comparing us to the UK is just laughable... our economy operates differently, which means we should have prepared for the crash differently too...

And that guy you mentioned—the one who actually warned everyone about the impending crisis—was branded an incompetent by George W. Bush and his circle. Again, just a stellar indicator of how prepared we were for the meltdown...

Deny it as much as you like... the cooperation agreements were signed back in the '90s, and even then, generals were being handed over... basically, the smear campaign against the defense effort started just before that.

Let me ask you something... suppose Desert Storm wasn't put on trial, and only certain specific officers were convicted—would that, in your eyes, somehow disprove the idea that the entire operation was a legitimate defensive war?

I mean, look, Ljube Jurcic and Zeljko Rohatinski are out there claiming your arguments don't hold any water at all. They’re really digging in their heels on that one. But... I don't know, maybe you should just keep going? I guess it isn't exactly news, though. It’s not like this is the first time you’ve sort of lost your way or gotten turned around. Just, uh, keep at it, I suppose.

Quincy:

I mean, honestly, comparing us to the UK just feels... I don't know, kind of ridiculous? It’s like comparing apples to oranges. Our whole economic setup is built on totally different foundations than theirs, so it makes sense that we would have approached crisis prep differently too. We aren't them, you know? I guess it's just a different playing field entirely.

I mean, we just don't have an economy. Period. And honestly, if you’re going to sit there and lecture me about how we should have prepared for this crisis... well, go ahead. Please. Enlighten the rest of us. I guess if you do that, maybe you'll finally snag a Nobel Prize or something. Just saying.

Quincy:

I mean, that Rohatinski guy you’re talking about... when he was actually trying to warn everyone that a crisis was coming, Sanders and Šuker just brushed him off and called him clueless. It's just... I don't know, maybe it's just another perfect example of how totally unprepared they were for everything hitting the fan. Just shows you, I guess.

So, Mason was out there tearing him apart, you know? Mostly bringing up those reserve funds and stuff, but that’s really a whole different conversation entirely... I mean, honestly. But then, in a bit of a twist, Mason actually stepped up and admitted he was wrong. I guess things change. Maybe he just realized he overstepped. It's weird, right? Anyway...

I guess... I mean, if you look at what Quincy was saying there... maybe? It’s just one of those things where you wonder how we even got here, I suppose. It feels like everything is shifting so fast, almost like when we were all watching the coverage during Desert Storm, you know? That sense of something massive happening right under your feet. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe I'm overthinking it, too. Or maybe not. It's hard to tell sometimes.

Go ahead and deny it all you want... I mean, really, deny it as much as you need to... but that cooperation agreement was already signed back in the 90s. Even then, they were handing over generals. So, I guess... maybe they just started the whole smear campaign against the Democrats a little bit before that actually happened.

Look, I’m saying this again... just ask our colleagues over at the Republican Party if you aren't sure. I know you probably will, obviously, but if you're just choosing to ignore all those threads where we actually sat down and talked about this stuff? Man, I really won't be pointing it out to you anymore. I mean, seriously.

I guess... I mean, if you look at what Quincy said, it really makes you think, doesn't it? It’s just one of those things where you start down one path and suddenly you're somewhere else entirely. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but there's something about the way this is unfolding that feels... I don't know, significant? In a quiet sort of way. Anyway, I was just sitting here thinking about it, and I felt like I had to say something. It's all very strange, honestly.

So, I wanted to ask you something... like, just thinking out loud here. If Desert Storm itself isn't prosecuted, and if it turns out that only people like Norac, Glavaš, and those guys are convicted... I mean, would that change things for you? Like, would that basically tear down the whole argument that the war was strictly a defensive struggle for the nation? I guess I'm just wondering how you'd see that.

I mean, you should just go ahead and ask those party buddies of yours to explain exactly what Racan signed over at the Westin that day... and maybe they can tell you why the Netherlands decided to stage that whole blockade against us right then, too. Honestly, you don't even have to bother explaining yourself later after all this nonsense, just... yeah, just disappear, I guess. :-)

Adam Collins4 said:The Republican Party called the IMF twice before Bill Clinton did, but because they were so incompetent, they had to pay everything back...

Are you even aware of that?

skegro once said out loud in public—basically calling both the lightweight and the church official bluff—that the debt to the IMF was paid back perfectly, and that when he handed over the keys on his way out, the treasury was actually sitting in the black. And those two guys actually backed him up. So, I guess... what exactly are you talking about here?

briskbison55 said:I mean, look, Ljube Jurcic and Zeljko Rohatinski are out there claiming your arguments don't hold any water at all. They’re really digging in their heels on that one. But... I don't know, maybe you should just keep going? I guess it isn't exactly news, though. It’s not like this is the first time you’ve sort of lost your way or gotten turned around. Just, uh, keep at it, I suppose.

Quincy:

I mean, honestly, comparing us to the UK just feels... I don't know, kind of ridiculous? It’s like comparing apples to oranges. Our whole economic setup is built on totally different foundations than theirs, so it makes sense that we would have approached crisis prep differently too. We aren't them, you know? I guess it's just a different playing field entirely.

I mean, we just don't have an economy. Period. And honestly, if you’re going to sit there and lecture me about how we should have prepared for this crisis... well, go ahead. Please. Enlighten the rest of us. I guess if you do that, maybe you'll finally snag a Nobel Prize or something. Just saying.

Quincy:

I mean, that Rohatinski guy you’re talking about... when he was actually trying to warn everyone that a crisis was coming, Sanders and Šuker just brushed him off and called him clueless. It's just... I don't know, maybe it's just another perfect example of how totally unprepared they were for everything hitting the fan. Just shows you, I guess.

So, Mason was out there tearing him apart, you know? Mostly bringing up those reserve funds and stuff, but that’s really a whole different conversation entirely... I mean, honestly. But then, in a bit of a twist, Mason actually stepped up and admitted he was wrong. I guess things change. Maybe he just realized he overstepped. It's weird, right? Anyway...

I guess... I mean, if you look at what Quincy was saying there... maybe? It’s just one of those things where you wonder how we even got here, I suppose. It feels like everything is shifting so fast, almost like when we were all watching the coverage during Desert Storm, you know? That sense of something massive happening right under your feet. Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe I'm overthinking it, too. Or maybe not. It's hard to tell sometimes.

Go ahead and deny it all you want... I mean, really, deny it as much as you need to... but that cooperation agreement was already signed back in the 90s. Even then, they were handing over generals. So, I guess... maybe they just started the whole smear campaign against the Democrats a little bit before that actually happened.

Look, I’m saying this again... just ask our colleagues over at the Republican Party if you aren't sure. I know you probably will, obviously, but if you're just choosing to ignore all those threads where we actually sat down and talked about this stuff? Man, I really won't be pointing it out to you anymore. I mean, seriously.

I guess... I mean, if you look at what Quincy said, it really makes you think, doesn't it? It’s just one of those things where you start down one path and suddenly you're somewhere else entirely. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but there's something about the way this is unfolding that feels... I don't know, significant? In a quiet sort of way. Anyway, I was just sitting here thinking about it, and I felt like I had to say something. It's all very strange, honestly.

So, I wanted to ask you something... like, just thinking out loud here. If Desert Storm itself isn't prosecuted, and if it turns out that only people like Norac, Glavaš, and those guys are convicted... I mean, would that change things for you? Like, would that basically tear down the whole argument that the war was strictly a defensive struggle for the nation? I guess I'm just wondering how you'd see that.

I mean, you should just go ahead and ask those party buddies of yours to explain exactly what Racan signed over at the Westin that day... and maybe they can tell you why the Netherlands decided to stage that whole blockade against us right then, too. Honestly, you don't even have to bother explaining yourself later after all this nonsense, just... yeah, just disappear, I guess. :-)

Of course, more insults because there aren't any actual arguments left...

We weren't prepared for the crisis back then, and we aren't prepared now either... it's blatant incompetence by The Administration...

And as for this specific issue, they certainly have the money...

"Libertarian Party members are appalled by the implementation of a three-billion-dollar program to return housing to people who lost their tenancy rights, right when the country is being hit by a massive economic crisis. If those funds were redirected toward job preservation, a huge number of American citizens wouldn't be ending up at the unemployment office," said Daniel Srb, president of the Libertarian Party.

He pointed out that the program was passed back in August 2006 when, as he put it, The Administration decided—based on an agreement between the Republican Party and the Independent Party—to allocate apartments to those who lost their tenancy rights because they hadn't used them for more than six months. These are, according to him, individuals who left America in 1991, went "to the other side," and actively joined the fight against America.

What do you mean, "investing in manufacturing"? That money should be given to Mexicans...

And yeah, generals were convicted and extradited for things that have nothing to do with Operation Storm... who's to blame for that?

How does that not completely dismantle the narrative regarding the defensive war?

Karen Rodriguez3 said:Maybe ask them how business is going *right now*. You know, specifically this month. I mean, sure, if they're mostly working with companies here in the States.
You want me to tell you what it's like in manufacturing?

Business is actually going great, honestly. They work with all sorts of companies in America—both domestic and international. They do a ton of work with firms outside the US, too. There’s one guy about my age running things; he employs 12 people. We're talking millions in revenue, mostly software development.

But wait, what exactly are they producing?

Karen Rodriguez3 said:Maybe ask them how business is going *right now*. You know, specifically this month. I mean, sure, if they're mostly working with companies here in the States.
You want me to tell you what it's like in manufacturing?

..but do you honestly believe the government is to blame to such an extent that your boss can't handle rising overhead or variable costs, dropping demand, a surplus of labor, or a total lack of market liquidity? 🤷

briskbison55 said:skegro once said out loud in public—basically calling both the lightweight and the church official bluff—that the debt to the IMF was paid back perfectly, and that when he handed over the keys on his way out, the treasury was actually sitting in the black. And those two guys actually backed him up. So, I guess... what exactly are you talking about here?

I’m talking about how the Republican Party twice requested standby arrangements that ended up stalling—purely due to their own sheer incompetence—even though the funds were eventually repaid...

So, are you actually aware of that, or are we just guessing?

It seems like you don't have a clue what you're talking about, yet here you are, acting like an expert...☕

And honestly, I couldn't care less who sent what to whom or who signed off on it...

The truth is, we didn't even acknowledge there was a crisis happening, let alone bother to actually prepare for one.
Our economy is getting hit harder and harder—it’s shaking us to the core—while everywhere else, the recovery is already gaining momentum. It just goes to show that the economic policies over the last twenty years have been fundamentally broken; our entire system has been gutted, which means you can't just play defense and expect to bounce back from a recession. You can't just patch up a sinking ship. And the second thing is, we didn't even try to build any kind of buffer against the crash... though I guess that shouldn't be a surprise, since everyone seemed too busy coasting while everything was clearly heading straight down the drain.

Lisa Gray94 said:..but do you honestly believe the government is to blame to such an extent that your boss can't handle rising overhead or variable costs, dropping demand, a surplus of labor, or a total lack of market liquidity? 🤷

Look, if your employer is the government—and let's be real, they don't pay you on time, they drag their feet for months, effectively creating your own liquidity crisis in the process—then yeah, absolutely...

Especially since they play by a completely different set of rules when it comes to taxes—meaning, the second they want their cut, they're suddenly very efficient...

But, thank God, I had enough sense to ensure about 85% of my business is done with international clients...

Austin Gonzalez13 said:Look, a thief is a thief, sure, but we can't just pretend everyone shares the exact same level of blame here... parties that have never even held power are obviously less responsible than the one that sat in the driver's seat for sixteen years. It’s not the same thing to say one guy from party X stole something versus a thousand people from party Y—that doesn't mean party X and party Y are equally guilty.🙂🙂

Nothing changes here. Like I said before—America was picked clean by individuals using every single political faction active on the scene over the last 20 years. Whether it’s more or less, it’s all just semantics. Everyone took a cut, even when they weren't in office but sitting in the opposition—think of an DNC member like Milan Bandić and those types of "characters."
So, it's pretty simple: everyone carries the blame, including the average voters—because they're the ones who gave these political groups their legitimacy in the first place.☕

granitemarlin77 said:Nothing changes here. Like I said before—America was picked clean by individuals using every single political faction active on the scene over the last 20 years. Whether it’s more or less, it’s all just semantics. Everyone took a cut, even when they weren't in office but sitting in the opposition—think of an DNC member like Milan Bandić and those types of "characters."
So, it's pretty simple: everyone carries the blame, including the average voters—because they're the ones who gave these political groups their legitimacy in the first place.☕

Oh, it absolutely changes things—look, one thief among a hundred honest people is just an exception that proves the rule... and by that same logic, one honest soul among a hundred thieves is also just an exception that proves the rule. ☕

Lisa Gray94 said:..but do you honestly believe the government is to blame to such an extent that your boss can't handle rising overhead or variable costs, dropping demand, a surplus of labor, or a total lack of market liquidity? 🤷

Look, the government is the primary—the absolute MAIN—driver of market illiquidity!!!

Adam Collins4 said:Look, if your employer is the government—and let's be real, they don't pay you on time, they drag their feet for months, effectively creating your own liquidity crisis in the process—then yeah, absolutely...

Especially since they play by a completely different set of rules when it comes to taxes—meaning, the second they want their cut, they're suddenly very efficient...

But, thank God, I had enough sense to ensure about 85% of my business is done with international clients...

So you just love our exchange rate policy, don't you? It’s just great when you're already starting out 15% more expensive because of the currency fluctuations.

Adam Collins4 said:Of course, more insults because there aren't any actual arguments left...

We weren't prepared for the crisis back then, and we aren't prepared now either... it's blatant incompetence by The Administration...

And as for this specific issue, they certainly have the money...

"Libertarian Party members are appalled by the implementation of a three-billion-dollar program to return housing to people who lost their tenancy rights, right when the country is being hit by a massive economic crisis. If those funds were redirected toward job preservation, a huge number of American citizens wouldn't be ending up at the unemployment office," said Daniel Srb, president of the Libertarian Party.

He pointed out that the program was passed back in August 2006 when, as he put it, The Administration decided—based on an agreement between the Republican Party and the Independent Party—to allocate apartments to those who lost their tenancy rights because they hadn't used them for more than six months. These are, according to him, individuals who left America in 1991, went "to the other side," and actively joined the fight against America.

What do you mean, "investing in manufacturing"? That money should be given to Mexicans...

And yeah, generals were convicted and extradited for things that have nothing to do with Operation Storm... who's to blame for that?

How does that not completely dismantle the narrative regarding the defensive war?

Look, I’ll give you two examples—one guy is actually a member of your party and the other is the Governor of the Federal Reserve. If anyone is being insulting here, it’s you, honestly, with this constant trolling and just dodging anything that doesn't fit your little narrative. This person is basically like a bull charging blindly at a rag; they aren't budging an inch from what they were taught.

Quincy:

"The Libertarian Party is absolutely appalled by the implementation of this three-billion-dollar program meant to return housing to people who lost their residency rights, especially while the country is struggling through such a massive economic recession. 'If those funds had been redirected toward job preservation, so many American citizens wouldn't be stuck on unemployment lines,' said Libertarian Party leader Daniel Smith." He pointed out how the program was passed back in August 2006 when, according to him, the administration decided—based on an agreement between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party—to allocate housing to those who lost their residency rights because they hadn't used the properties for over six months. He mentioned these are people who left America in 1991, went 'to the other side,' and actively participated in the war against America. So, what about investing in manufacturing? Should we just hand that over to the Democrats instead...

There it is, the Democrats have finally completely fallen apart at the seams :-) Now they’d probably just ignore all our international treaty obligations and tell the Democrats to go back to where they came from. Come on, seriously, I know terms like 'agreement,' 'initialing,' 'signing,' or 'ratification' might be a bit confusing for you folks in the Democratic Party, but once obligations are taken on, they have to be honored. Why weren't you crying foul when the Republican Party was signing it? There was a full debate in Congress and the Democrats agreed that homes needed to be rebuilt for all the victims.

Quincy:

And yeah, certain generals were convicted and extradited for things that have nothing to do with Storm... so who’s to blame for that? Doesn't that totally undermine the whole argument about the defensive war?

Same answer as before. You keep broadening the topic, and I just can't think of anything because I feel like we've already stretched this one way too far.

Carl Hill6 said:America was robbed by communists and FBI agents, henchmen and lackeys of the bloody era of Josip Broz Marshall.
There are most of them in the Republican Party and among coalition partners of all stripes, particularly within the Native American Party.

Look, the truth is the USA got robbed by thieves—individuals who had political cover to do their dirty work, regardless of which party they belonged to. It’s not just about when the Democratic Party is in power; I mean, just look at what Eric Adams has pulled off and continues to pull off. For me, every single political faction is responsible, no exceptions. I don't care about playing scale or weighing who did more damage. All I care about is the bottom line: what's gone? What was stolen?☕