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The Financial System and Money Supply

Started by Maria Thomas48 · · 👁 19 views · 619 replies

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Participants Maria Thomas48mistystag0Gregory Williams7Andrew Booth29Nicole Collins13William Richardson2Amanda Allen4Douglas Reed3neonhound10Jerry Williams41David Williams7Bradley Walker88wearysailor71Robert Vaughn10goldenwolf13Thomas Morales13brightlynx11casuallynx8Larry Collins19Matthew Patel12crimsonfalcon10Brian Nelson4Sandra Cox67hollowmoose21 …
Robert Vaughn10 Robert Vaughn10 Regular
308 messages
joined Feb 2019
#401 ·
crimsonfalcon10 said:There is a massive difference between keeping money in a bank to earn interest and stashing cash under a mattress, which is what happens in a non-credit system... Let's wait for Mr. Century's answer regarding what percentage of the US GDP he predicts will go toward profit in his system, and then things will be much clearer...

Sure, the standard defense for this setup is that interest rewards savers. On paper, it sounds fine. But let’s be real: this is just various forms of paper manipulation. The sheer volume of credit being issued means the money typed into a ledger somewhere is impossible to pay back. That’s where Nostradamus is right. The ratio is simply too bloated to close the loop. Typing numbers into a computer isn't "saving" anything. We aren't defending savers here; we are calling out manipulation that steals from them by diluting their value. We need to cut off the ability to just conjure numbers out of thin air.😁
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#402 ·
Robert Vaughn10 said:Sure, the standard defense for this setup is that interest rewards savers. On paper, it sounds fine. But let’s be real: this is just various forms of paper manipulation. The sheer volume of credit being issued means the money typed into a ledger somewhere is impossible to pay back. That’s where Nostradamus is right. The ratio is simply too bloated to close the loop. Typing numbers into a computer isn't "saving" anything. We aren't defending savers here; we are calling out manipulation that steals from them by diluting their value. We need to cut off the ability to just conjure numbers out of thin air.😁

Let me explain exactly what’s broken in this non-credit money system... and why Matthew Patel just can't seem to grasp it. He keeps droning on about offsetting a 5% profit using non-credit money, but he refuses to reveal—or perhaps he simply doesn't understand—what that actually means when you look at the real numbers. The US GDP stands at roughly $27 trillion. According to the math provided by Stoletov, if we attempt to offset a 5% profit with non-credit money, we would need to print approximately $1.35 trillion annually just to cover the deficit lost to savings. Currently, the M1 money supply used to drive this GDP sits at around $2 trillion. This implies that Mr. Patel would have to expand the M1 money supply every three years just to maintain our current level of economic output! And how does this work in a system without interest rates? Based on Stoletov’s theories, investment stems from "under-the-mattress" savings, which is essentially the profit generated within a year. Therefore, $1.35 trillion flows under the mattress every single year. It all sounds wonderful and perfect until someone decides to start spending that cash. In ten years, there would be $13.5 trillion sitting under mattresses. I have to ask: how does Matthew Patel intend to control that mountain of cash to prevent it from flooding back into circulation? If even a mere 10% of those savings were released back into the economy, we would be hit with 30% inflation instantly. By the time the authorities realize the inflation is happening, they'll already be a month behind on their response. Ultimately, this entire path leads straight to hyperinflation and the total collapse of the Stoletov system.

Is the current monetary system actually effective? It keeps capital constantly circulating and prevents massive wealth accumulation that could trigger hyperinflation. With $45 billion in circulation, you can support a GDP of $330 billion. In contrast, under a Stoletov-style model, he might manage that for just one month! To sustain a $330 billion GDP over ten years, you'd need $210 billion in circulation, and for twenty years, that figure jumps to $375 billion.

In this instance, I played it quite safe by aiming for just a 5% profit... We all realize that given economic cycles and market volatility, a 20% return is more than sufficient... But if we were to factor that into the equation, Stoletov's entire system would collapse within a month! 🤣
Matthew Patel12 Matthew Patel12 Member
49 messages
joined Jul 2010
#403 ·
Mr. crimsonfalcon10, you seem to misunderstand; the Stoletov system isn't some fleeting monthly trend, it is designed for permanence. Think of GDP as the sum of all market prices. If you take GDP and subtract costs, you arrive at profit. Income stands as the primary figure. When you subtract GDP from that income, what remains is consumer surplus. Non-credit money essentially equals the combination of profit and consumer surplus. While some might choose to hoard cash in a sock under their bed, I issue non-credit money to satisfy social needs and human requirements. Should someone decide to pull that cash out of their sock, I simply absorb those funds as a budget surplus. The amount of money left in circulation is strictly calibrated to prevent inflation. Speculators will learn their lesson quickly enough; speculation will cease to exist entirely. By utilizing three social accounts—income, prices, and costs—I have effectively replaced Nostradamus’s theory regarding the three deficits. However, both theories yield the exact same result: non-credit money. This means they are fundamentally identical, though I maintain that my approach is significantly more straightforward.
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#404 ·
Matthew Patel12 said:Mr. crimsonfalcon10, you seem to misunderstand; the Stoletov system isn't some fleeting monthly trend, it is designed for permanence. Think of GDP as the sum of all market prices. If you take GDP and subtract costs, you arrive at profit. Income stands as the primary figure. When you subtract GDP from that income, what remains is consumer surplus. Non-credit money essentially equals the combination of profit and consumer surplus. While some might choose to hoard cash in a sock under their bed, I issue non-credit money to satisfy social needs and human requirements. Should someone decide to pull that cash out of their sock, I simply absorb those funds as a budget surplus. The amount of money left in circulation is strictly calibrated to prevent inflation. Speculators will learn their lesson quickly enough; speculation will cease to exist entirely. By utilizing three social accounts—income, prices, and costs—I have effectively replaced Nostradamus’s theory regarding the three deficits. However, both theories yield the exact same result: non-credit money. This means they are fundamentally identical, though I maintain that my approach is significantly more straightforward.

Mr. Patel, isn't it speculative to spend 10 percent of a windfall that, under your system, would trigger 30 percent inflation in ten years or 60 percent after twenty? I think it's perfectly clear to everyone now just how ridiculous this idea really is...
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#405 ·
Gregory Williams7 said:Nostradamus:
I don't require mathematical proofs when you tell me that printing money will inevitably trigger inflation.
What am I supposed to write to you? If you issue 5% more currency, does that automatically result in 5% inflation?

Furthermore, you cannot simply hand out cash if there is no underlying production. What happens if people aren't actually producing anything in exchange for that money? It is easy to distribute funds that people won't even value. The crisis arrives the moment those people realize they can't buy anything with it, because there might only be one loaf of bread left for a hundred people.

You must increase production and remove the parasites weighing down the workers. That is the only way out. History is littered with attempts to violate the economy through money printing, and we know exactly how those stories end. Yet, every generation produces some fool who believes he is the one who can harness the benefits of printing while somehow avoiding the consequences. It always ends in disaster.

Credit operates on the principles of supply and demand. I offer credit and an interest rate. If you don't like the terms, don't take it. The fact that you might struggle to repay it is not my concern; I will collect what is owed one way or another. Ultimately, the burden is on the debtor to decide if they can actually afford the loan. This process creates a class of debtors. I agree with you completely, but that isn't my problem. The capable should lead the less capable; that is how any democratic system ought to function.

From what I gather, you have an issue with the interest rate the Federal Reserve charges on the money we use. There is no need for that. It is a very small rate, easily covered with minimal effort. Considering the work that institution performs—regulation, oversight, systemic analysis—the rate might actually be too low.
Most of that interest paid to the Federal Reserve eventually flows back into the system through inflation and wages anyway. Or, if there hasn't been economic growth, it doesn't. But that is beside the point.

By printing money and handing it directly to the population, you are taking from those who have and giving to those who do not. You might create a "fairer" world, but you also create a generation of idlers and kill economic growth.

Is this a sufficiently clear mathematical explanation as to why you cannot simply print money and hand it to people?

And you really should specify exactly who you are referring to in your posts. Are you talking about the European Union, America, or somewhere else? Because things do not function the same way everywhere.

FEDERAL RESERVE INTEREST RATE AND FEE SCHEDULE*
Active Interest Rates
• Lombard credit
• Intraday credit
• Discount rate
• Short-term liquidity credit
for liquidity

⇒ 9%
⇒ zero interest
⇒ 9%
⇒ up to 3 months: Lombard rate + 0.5 percentage points
⇒ over 3 months: Lombard rate + 1 percentage point.

Passive Interest Rates
• Cash deposit
⇒ 0.5%
• Remuneration rate on the USD portion of required reserves:
⇒ 0.75%.

Standard reverse repo auction

held on October 14, 2009 (in millions of USD)
number of auctions: R-37-2009.
Repurchase date: 10/21/2009.
Total amount of bids received: 4,705.70
Fixed repo rate: 6.00%
Total amount of accepted bids: 470.57
Total amount of rejected bids: 4,235.13
Allocation coefficient

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, these are the interest rates that make the commercial banks look like sharks. In that sense, the bankers aren't wrong when they claim high interest rates for consumers and businesses are just a byproduct of the heavy regulatory costs imposed by the Federal Reserve.

On the flip side, the fees the Fed pays out to banks for reserve requirements and deposits are absolutely pathetic.

We're looking at 0.5% and 0.75%, and they don't pay anything at all on the foreign currency portion of the reserves.

That explains how the Fed can operate with such massive profits; they take these funds and invest them in international markets where the returns are significantly higher.

Basically, it’s not just the commercial banks squeezing us—it's the Fed too (indirectly). It's absurd. It proves that this entire interest-based system is fundamentally unfair because every single player in the chain passes the cost down to the end user, the borrower.
lonehawk5 lonehawk5 Active Member
161 messages
joined Oct 2012
#406 ·
First off, you really need to wrap your head around why they even run these auctions and how the whole process works:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monet/operations/repo-auctions.pdf
Once you get that, you’ve gotta realize why that interest rate is sitting so high (9%)—and then you seriously need to look into what the Federal Reserve actually does with all that profit...
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#407 ·
crimsonfalcon10 said:Let me explain exactly what’s broken in this non-credit money system... and why Matthew Patel just can't seem to grasp it. He keeps droning on about offsetting a 5% profit using non-credit money, but he refuses to reveal—or perhaps he simply doesn't understand—what that actually means when you look at the real numbers. The US GDP stands at roughly $27 trillion. According to the math provided by Stoletov, if we attempt to offset a 5% profit with non-credit money, we would need to print approximately $1.35 trillion annually just to cover the deficit lost to savings. Currently, the M1 money supply used to drive this GDP sits at around $2 trillion. This implies that Mr. Patel would have to expand the M1 money supply every three years just to maintain our current level of economic output! And how does this work in a system without interest rates? Based on Stoletov’s theories, investment stems from "under-the-mattress" savings, which is essentially the profit generated within a year. Therefore, $1.35 trillion flows under the mattress every single year. It all sounds wonderful and perfect until someone decides to start spending that cash. In ten years, there would be $13.5 trillion sitting under mattresses. I have to ask: how does Matthew Patel intend to control that mountain of cash to prevent it from flooding back into circulation? If even a mere 10% of those savings were released back into the economy, we would be hit with 30% inflation instantly. By the time the authorities realize the inflation is happening, they'll already be a month behind on their response. Ultimately, this entire path leads straight to hyperinflation and the total collapse of the Stoletov system.

Is the current monetary system actually effective? It keeps capital constantly circulating and prevents massive wealth accumulation that could trigger hyperinflation. With $45 billion in circulation, you can support a GDP of $330 billion. In contrast, under a Stoletov-style model, he might manage that for just one month! To sustain a $330 billion GDP over ten years, you'd need $210 billion in circulation, and for twenty years, that figure jumps to $375 billion.

In this instance, I played it quite safe by aiming for just a 5% profit... We all realize that given economic cycles and market volatility, a 20% return is more than sufficient... But if we were to factor that into the equation, Stoletov's entire system would collapse within a month! 🤣

IRS: In 2009, net corporate profits hit $4.4 billion
Published: 08/03/2010 15:16
American entrepreneurs subject to corporate tax—excluding banks and insurance companies—operated under the toughest conditions seen in a decade during 2009. They posted a consolidated net profit of $4.4 billion, which represents a 73% drop, or a decrease of $11.9 billion, compared to 2008, according to the Financial Agency (IRS).

According to data released by the IRS, American businesses generated a total revenue of $613.4 billion in 2009, marking a decline of $72.3 billion, or 10.6%, from the previous year.

During the same period, total corporate expenses dropped by 8.9%, or $58.7 billion, totaling $603.9 billion.

http://www.funds.us/news/irs-billions-dollars/

Where on earth is he going to find those trillions needed to cover the savings gap???

Because at the same time, the average American salary only covers about 70% of actual living costs.

And those rare individuals who actually manage to save up usually get their money from abroad:

Friday, October 2, 2009.

Foreigners are holding $45 billion in our domestic banks!

http://www.usnews.com/html/2009/10/0....asp?r=gos&c=2
lonehawk5 lonehawk5 Active Member
161 messages
joined Oct 2012
#408 ·
I was talking about this:
based on Stoletov’s math, if you try to cover a 5% profit margin using non-credit moneythat means the government would have to print roughly $2.5 billion a year just to make up for the deficit lost to savings...
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#409 ·
lonehawk5 said:First off, you really need to wrap your head around why they even run these auctions and how the whole process works:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monet/operations/repo-auctions.pdf
Once you get that, you’ve gotta realize why that interest rate is sitting so high (9%)—and then you seriously need to look into what the Federal Reserve actually does with all that profit...

I finally figured out the repo auctions, but honestly, I still don't get why the discount rate is such a massive 9%. Even big commercial banks aren't seeing rates like that. It just doesn't make sense to me.

and then you need to know what the Federal Reserve does with the profits.


Maybe they're handing it out to people in need??

Or maybe half goes into one pocket and half goes into the federal budget...

😁
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#410 ·
lonehawk5 said:I was talking about this:
based on Stoletov’s math, if you try to cover a 5% profit margin using non-credit moneythat means the government would have to print roughly $2.5 billion a year just to make up for the deficit lost to savings...

I'm not entirely convinced. Matthew Patel12 wasn't using actual, hard numbers here. Plus, there's no way 5% of $4.4 billion translates to an entrepreneur's profit of $16.5 billion...
lonehawk5 lonehawk5 Active Member
161 messages
joined Oct 2012
#411 ·
@Ashley Barnes9
I finally caught on to how these repo auctions work. Seriously, why on earth is the discount window rate sitting at a massive 9% when even commercial banks aren't charging that much? I don't get it...

It's basically designed to scare banks away from using that option (basically:http://www.centralbanksguide.com/lender+of+last+resort/)

Maybe they shouldn't be handing it out to anyone who asks???

It goes right back into the federal budget... which is actually a decent chunk of change.

I'm not so sure about that. Matthew Patel12 wasn't exactly working with "real" numbers here. Plus, 5% of 4.4 billion—which is what the entrepreneurs are making—is definitely not going to hit 16.5 billion.

330*5/100= ?
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#412 ·
crimsonfalcon10

In this instance, I played it pretty safe by aiming for a 5% profit margin... but we all know that given how economic cycles and market volatility work, a 20% return is usually plenty.

And what can you even say about this absolute nonsense?! How on earth does anyone think 20% of $613.4 billion represents the total revenue of all entrepreneurs? If business owners were actually pulling in those kinds of margins, they wouldn't even need banks because they'd be swimming in cash.
In America, the only ones seeing profit margins close to 20% of their revenue are the telecom giants, followed closely by the big banks.
🙂
Ashley Barnes9 Ashley Barnes9 Member
31 messages
joined Feb 2013
#413 ·
lonehawk5 said:@Ashley Barnes9
I finally caught on to how these repo auctions work. Seriously, why on earth is the discount window rate sitting at a massive 9% when even commercial banks aren't charging that much? I don't get it...

It's basically designed to scare banks away from using that option (basically:http://www.centralbanksguide.com/lender+of+last+resort/)

Maybe they shouldn't be handing it out to anyone who asks???

It goes right back into the federal budget... which is actually a decent chunk of change.

I'm not so sure about that. Matthew Patel12 wasn't exactly working with "real" numbers here. Plus, 5% of 4.4 billion—which is what the entrepreneurs are making—is definitely not going to hit 16.5 billion.

330*5/100= ?

So if 330 is the GDP, then we're looking at a 5% profit margin, right?

But that would make the profit a measly 4.4 billion...

based on the Stoletov calculation, if 5% profit is covered by non-credit money

4.4*5/100=?

Back in 2008, total corporate net profit was roughly 16.5 billion...

Or are you guys implying that the entire GDP is pure profit?!

😁
Gregory Williams7 Gregory Williams7 Active Member
144 messages
joined Mar 2014
#414 ·
However, one must remember that total profit is not synonymous with the entrepreneur's actual take-home pay.
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#415 ·
Heh... you all seem to be overlooking one thing about this new system: there’s no credit available... if a machine breaks down on the factory floor, you can't just walk into Chase and pull out a loan for repairs... everything has to be budgeted upfront... which means my estimate of 5% of circulating cash is actually being way too conservative... 🙂
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#416 ·
lonehawk5 said:I was talking about this:
based on Stoletov’s math, if you try to cover a 5% profit margin using non-credit moneythat means the government would have to print roughly $2.5 billion a year just to make up for the deficit lost to savings...

The idea was that 5% of GDP represents corporate profits being diverted into savings... just look at the data from 2008 where profit sat at 16.3% after accounting for losses... which means actual earnings for healthy companies are even higher... since that figure is dragged down by underperforming businesses... under this current system, all that profit ends up tucked away under a mattress... and after a few years, all that accumulated cash becomes a ticking time bomb, triggering runaway inflation once it finally hits circulation...
Matthew Patel12 Matthew Patel12 Member
49 messages
joined Jul 2010
#417 ·
user23, I have already stated my position: if money is being stashed away in a sock, I will continue to distribute funds. However, the moment that "sock money" enters circulation, I am seizing it immediately to bolster the budget surplus. No one bothers hiding cash under a mattress if they know it’s effectively vanished forever. No one would ever trigger inflation on my watch, because I will always pull any excess liquidity out of the system. The amount of money in circulation should be precisely calibrated to maintain zero inflation. It is a matter of absolute simplicity. If new capital is distributed as a gift, there are no complications. The crisis we face today exists because new money is being issued as credit. That simply cannot happen. New money must exist solely as a gift. There will be enough of it to facilitate saving and lending, though those pursuits are of no concern to me, nor will they be of interest to you.
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#418 ·
I see things are heating up in this thread. Since none of us are professional economists, we’re probably throwing out a bunch of wrong numbers from their perspective.

The equality of the three deficits shows that in a closed monetary community, the total sum of monetary profits and losses equals the budget deficit. That holds true without credit. Depending on whether there is credit expansion, stagnation, or contraction, you could say that specific sum increases or decreases. The budget deficit shouldn't be financed by credit, but rather by non-credit money.

To clarify the subjects involved: these formulas apply to everyone. Kids, retirees, workers, corporations, government agencies, freelancers, etc. Anyone performing any kind of transaction involving money. It’s also perfectly expected that failing companies will accumulate monetary losses—more expenses than income. Will those be included in the current statistical sum of profits? Probably not. And cash stashed under a mattress isn't captured in statistics, though it definitely exists within the shadow economy.

When people talk about GDP and say we need a certain amount of growth, they're usually talking from the standpoint of state revenue. Since the government taxes transactions, a large GDP helps fill the federal treasury. The other question is how that increased GDP is actually achieved. If we account for inflation, it’s logical to expect a GDP that is, on average, 4% higher just to stay ahead of inflation. If we look at population, then logically, GDP should fall when there are fewer employees, and economic analyses suggest GDP falls twice as fast as unemployment rises. Also, GDP won't grow significantly without an influx of money. And that most often happens through credit. From what I've heard, you need to increase the money supply by 10% just to get a 5% increase in GDP.

However, you can't issue non-credit money based solely on GDP. That's where fraud becomes possible. For example, Company X has a valuable painting. They sell it to Company Y. Y sells it to Company Z. Z sells it back to Company T, who sells it back to Company X. Every single time at the exact same price. We’ve created quadruple the turnover, but the actual profit is zero. The painting didn't even have to move. Clearly, you don't need to issue non-credit money for a stunt like that. A better metric would be something like the sum of sales tax bases. Sales tax is paid by end consumers and businesses on the difference between revenue and expenses. If that difference is negative, the base would be negative and reduce the total sum.

When we discuss a 5% increase of non-credit money relative to the M1 money supply, it might seem small. There's a reason for that. Banks have used secondary issuance to deploy money and enable a larger GDP. It stands to reason that by using money from secondary issuance, earnings should be higher than 5% of the M1 mass.So, if it's clear to everyone that there isn't enough non-credit money to satisfy banking appetites, yet people claim this is a massive amount that would negatively impact prices, I have to ask: how do you intend to pay back those loans? It has to come from earnings, and people seem afraid of earnings?! Something is definitely wrong here—either bank profits are too high, or our earnings are too low. I'd say it's the former.

I think George Washington might be thinking a bit too naively if he believes he can compete with bank secondary issuances using non-credit money. My math shows that banks can achieve high returns on deposited funds through multiplication and charging interest on the total volume of issued credit. It’s obvious that there won't be enough non-credit money available if we stick to a fraudulent banking system (based on fractional reserve). First, because it generates inflation, and second, because it creates debt out of thin air. The banking system would need to transition to "real" banking—lending the bank's own money and the depositors' money without multiplication. An exception could be the Federal Reserve, which could produce money out of nothing.

The fear that injecting non-credit money would cause instant inflation is pretty much unargued. You can look at money supply movements since 1994, which show massive growth in the money supply without seeing that level of inflation. We also see major corporations taking out massive loans to buy up other companies without any automatic spike in prices. Why doesn't that happen? It’s obvious that there is currently more money in circulation, and if there weren't, prices would have jumped immediately.

There is this big fear that money saved under mattresses might suddenly turn into a massive wave of spending, but we really need to look at this realistically. That kind of capital could be placed back into banks that actually engage in real banking. We are talking about savings and investments here. How can stock offerings even happen if there aren't enough savings to buy them up? Once inflation drops, investing in stocks becomes a very bright prospect because profits would be drawn from non-credit money, rather than from someone else's credit that just adds more debt to the future. Of course, savings and profits can't just be any arbitrary number. Over-issuing non-credit money devalues everything, but holding back too much chokes production because people can't afford even the essentials—reports say the average wage just isn't cutting it right now.

For those who apparently can't be bothered to read my articles on my website, I'll explain once more why the Federal Reserve interest rates are high, even though they really should be lower. The Fed has an issue with the issuance of the dollar because those dollars are constantly being spent on imports. And when you spend that, you're draining foreign exchange reserves. That is why they have to use high interest rates to curb the dollar's circulation. Honestly, this crisis actually works in favor of the Fed, allowing them to maintain the dollar's exchange rate without a hitch. If there were a non-credit issuance of dollars, it would also create pressure to shrink reserves by spending them on foreign goods. This is a problem that needs to be solved through a collective awareness regarding the unnecessary purchase of foreign products. We could achieve a lot just by exercising restraint when it comes to buying stuff from abroad.

It is obviously difficult to move from a deep state of debt to a positive position, especially since we’ve been played by a banking system built entirely on partial reserves and a pure credit-based model. I think we should be considering a drastic cut in interest rates via a government mandate. These same interest rates create a massive cost, and credit is what triggered the inflation and the explosion of debt tied to the money supply in circulation (I've mentioned before how debt tends to grow by compounding both interest and inflation).

I think expectations are a bit too high—expecting a handful of us who realize the current system is a scam leading toward long-term ruin to provide a perfect solution immediately. I will never feel like such a genius in any job, let alone in a field where I am just a layman.

That doesn't change the fact that our evidence proves the current system is a sham and a betrayal of all citizens, as it violates constitutional rights (like Article 55 regarding fair wages).

As some might say, it isn't a question of what the government can do for me, but what I can do for the country. Each of us can take a small step for ourselves that becomes a huge leap for America—first, convince yourself, and then explain to others what kind of system we are actually living under and why it has to change. It also needs to be understood that imported goods should be bought out of necessity, not as a first choice.

We need non-credit money so we can convert part of our labor into monetary profit and continue investing and developing without creating endless cycles of debt. Non-credit money won't magically turn every loser into a winner, but it will prevent cash shortages and the bankruptcy of promising companies and smaller, less profitable firms.

Non-credit money seems to be our only real way forward. Transitioning from the current setup to a system based on non-credit money is something we shouldn't worry about until it's actually intended to happen, or rather, until we force the government to make it happen. There is no future in a purely credit-based system because we are buried in so much debt that there's no way to see how we'd ever earn our way out of it. Most importantly, this exact same problem exists in hundreds of other countries, which tells me the fault isn't with us, but with the system itself.

Best,
sites.google.com/site/financijskisustav/home/
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#419 ·
Matthew Patel12 said:user23, I have already stated my position: if money is being stashed away in a sock, I will continue to distribute funds. However, the moment that "sock money" enters circulation, I am seizing it immediately to bolster the budget surplus. No one bothers hiding cash under a mattress if they know it’s effectively vanished forever. No one would ever trigger inflation on my watch, because I will always pull any excess liquidity out of the system. The amount of money in circulation should be precisely calibrated to maintain zero inflation. It is a matter of absolute simplicity. If new capital is distributed as a gift, there are no complications. The crisis we face today exists because new money is being issued as credit. That simply cannot happen. New money must exist solely as a gift. There will be enough of it to facilitate saving and lending, though those pursuits are of no concern to me, nor will they be of interest to you.

You don't even grasp what you're talking about... you can only withdraw money once it's already circulating... once it finds its way back to you... by the time that happens, inflation has already hit... you're just reacting too late to pull the cash out...

If corporate profits represent 5% of GDP, we are looking at $16.5 billion annually... since there are no credits in this system, every single employee has to save up to buy a house or an apartment... in the US, there are roughly 150 million workers and the average salary is $1667, making that $90 billion annually... if citizens used to use their paychecks for housing loans, now they'll have to save that exact amount instead... which means we're looking at an additional $30 billion in savings per year... and that doesn't even account for retirees... whose savings shouldn't be ignored either... which means $46.5 billion is being pulled out of circulation every year... essentially, you are injecting $46.5 billion into the system annually... if just 10 percent of those savings hits the market during Christmas in the first year, you'd trigger 10% inflation... by the second year, when savings reach $90 billion, 10% of that value would cause 20% inflation... after ten years, with savings totaling $450 billion and only needing $45 billion for circulation, if just 10% of that total flows into the economy, you're facing 100% inflation... not to mention how much crime would skyrocket in such a system... everyone knows people stash cash under the mattress... why work at all when you could just rob your neighbors?

🤣
crimsonfalcon10 crimsonfalcon10 Member
36 messages
joined Jul 2010
#420 ·
2 nostrađurus

Take a look at this data table...

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releas...st/h6hist1.txt

The growth of the M1 money supply over the years... if you followed that old-school logic, wouldn't we just multiply the current M1 by the number of years in the system? Now we’re facing issues because M1 is already ten times smaller than the GDP... can you even imagine the chaos if M1 were ten times larger than the GDP based on those outdated principles?

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