Sexuality in spirituality

Andrew Sanchez572 said:That is precisely what I was getting at in my previous post, yet you went ahead and accused me of making sweeping generalizations. But, if I may, let's please try to steer the conversation back to the actual topic at hand...

That is certainly an ambitious goal, but one has to wonder how many people in America today—men and women alike—are actually working solely for the paycheck rather than out of a genuine passion for their profession. I would venture to say that those who truly find themselves doing what they love while simultaneously earning a substantial income are becoming quite a rare breed...

That is certainly true, though I would argue that a significantly larger number of men tend to view their professional careers as deeply fulfilling; and even in those instances where work falls short of providing purpose, they almost always have a dedicated hobby to fall back on...

What exactly were you getting at with those bolded parts? Are you suggesting that people end up staying single longer, or is there some other angle you're playing at? And honestly, just because someone has a fancy degree doesn't mean they're more "self-aware." I know plenty of pseudo-intellectuals out there who are so incredibly narrow-minded that I wouldn't even bother exchanging a single word with them if I didn't absolutely have to... on the flip side, I’ve met people without any higher education at all whom I could talk to for years on end without ever feeling bored for a single second.
One might be tempted to believe that a degree from an Ivy League university serves as the ultimate benchmark for capability, but I firmly believe that higher education is not the definitive measure of a person's true worth or potential... While academic credentials certainly hold weight in certain circles, they often fail to capture the nuanced reality of practical wisdom and genuine character. It is quite possible for someone to possess an extensive pedigree yet lack the fundamental intuition required for real-world success... Therefore, we should look beyond the diploma to find the true essence of ability.

You are once again deviating from the primary subject at hand...
I didn't mean any of those things you concluded... It’s quite simple, really. People complete their studies and then, naturally, they get married and start families. That is all there is to it...

In any given relationship, there’s always going to be a sense of competitiveness, and honestly, I don't see that as a negative at all. In fact, if you ask me, it can actually be quite motivating...
When it comes to women, that competitive streak almost always boils down to who can be the most attractive or catch a man's eye, whereas the competition between men tends to take on much more interesting—and frankly, more entertaining—dimensions. That is, unless you’re dealing with a group of total Neanderthals for male friends; in those cases, the rivalry just turns into an endless showdown over who has the bigger bank account or the flashier truck... 🙄 Those types of guys, honestly, rarely ever have women as close friends...

From where I'm sitting, that isn't quite right.

I wasn't implying any of those conclusions. It's just that people who focus on college tend to get married and start families later. That's all.

Even that doesn't hold up from my perspective—I know plenty of people who finished their degrees while already married (myself included). But I won't derail the thread further (even though you're the one who sparked this debate); I'll just say that in my own circles, things look different, likely due to various factors that forced most of my generation to grow up much faster than usual.

Personal growth requires constant work, and choosing one's own path is a deeply personal decision. I actually find myself agreeing with Bruno Mars on this topic—I'm not a fan of forcing anything.

I must reiterate, we aren't discussing edge cases here, but rather the general rule. Most college students simply aren't married yet.

I fail to see what all this insistence is about...

Andrew Sanchez572 said:I must reiterate, we aren't discussing edge cases here, but rather the general rule. Most college students simply aren't married yet.

I fail to see what all this insistence is about...

I’m talking about the forced emphasis on sexuality. I’m not advocating for celibacy, but I’m also against pushing sexual activity as if it’s an obligation. It’s just like what Bridget mentioned earlier: you can eat even when you aren't hungry, but that doesn't mean you actually want to eat.

True, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it forcing anything... I’d prefer to view it as intentional scheduling.

For instance, if I know I’ll be performing a specific ritual on a certain date and at a particular time (which I always do, because otherwise, what’s even the point?), I make a conscious effort to abstain for a period beforehand. That way, when the moment arrives, there isn't any internal pressure to force a result.

I've never been much of a fan of forcing things myself.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:I must reiterate, we aren't discussing edge cases here, but rather the general rule. Most college students simply aren't married yet.

I fail to see what all this insistence is about...

This is an accurate assessment. The university I attended was quite large for its type—roughly 2,500 students—and I can recall only three couples who were actually married. Interestingly, all of them were international students who had already wed back home before arriving here. Furthermore, only one couple had a child. When we look at the statistical average, we are looking at people whose domestic partnerships are not legally recognized, as very few individuals in that age bracket, between 18 and 30, are even considering the concept of starting a family.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:True, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it forcing anything... I’d prefer to view it as intentional scheduling.

For instance, if I know I’ll be performing a specific ritual on a certain date and at a particular time (which I always do, because otherwise, what’s even the point?), I make a conscious effort to abstain for a period beforehand. That way, when the moment arrives, there isn't any internal pressure to force a result.

I've never been much of a fan of forcing things myself.

Alright, let us clarify a fundamental point that seems to be the core of our disagreement here. When we discuss sexuality within a spiritual context, we aren't talking about coerced sex or necessarily increasing frequency; instead, we are discussing how sex takes on an entirely different dimension and quality.

Am I interpreting the situation correctly?

hiddenhound3 said:Alright, let us clarify a fundamental point that seems to be the core of our disagreement here. When we discuss sexuality within a spiritual context, we aren't talking about coerced sex or necessarily increasing frequency; instead, we are discussing how sex takes on an entirely different dimension and quality.

Am I interpreting the situation correctly?

You certainly did. 👍

The same principle applies when discussing sexual economics...🙂

Andrew Sanchez572 said:You certainly did. 👍

The same principle applies when discussing sexual economics...🙂

What exactly does one mean by "sexual economics"?😕

Personally, I believe it is vital to approach intimacy with a sense of mindfulness—to truly be aware of oneself. As for Tantra, I view it essentially as a form of shared meditation between two people.😍

What I am genuinely curious about is what actually transpires within the mind during those moments.

Edit: This logic extends to celibacy as well, since celibacy isn't merely about abstinence; rather, it is a dedicated period where an individual redirects their accumulated sexual energy into other productive channels.

Haha, I have to admit, when I first stumbled upon the term "sexual economics," it sounded absolutely bizarre to me—like those two concepts had no business being in the same sentence. 🤣
However, there is actually an excellent book by Wilhelm Reich with that exact title, so, well, consider this another recommendation for your reading list.
It focuses on the conscious distribution of sexual energy. It’s fascinating because most people immediately recoil at the mention of sexual-magical practices, associating them with things like promiscuity, coercion, or even dark magic, when in reality, we are talking about the awakening, channeling, and transformation of one's own energy and character.

I have always maintained that the individual experience is the absolute foundation of everything; it's what matters most. Practicing meditation alongside sexual stimulation is simply sublime, and the intensity is truly profound.
When you are part of a couple, maintaining that level of control can be a bit more challenging... though certainly not impossible.

What are your thoughts on this? I am curious about what actually happens in your mind... specifically during the rituals?

For my part, periods of abstinence serve as a way to accumulate sexual energy, which I can then focus much more effectively during the actual ritual.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:Haha, I have to admit, when I first stumbled upon the term "sexual economics," it sounded absolutely bizarre to me—like those two concepts had no business being in the same sentence. 🤣
However, there is actually an excellent book by Wilhelm Reich with that exact title, so, well, consider this another recommendation for your reading list.
It focuses on the conscious distribution of sexual energy. It’s fascinating because most people immediately recoil at the mention of sexual-magical practices, associating them with things like promiscuity, coercion, or even dark magic, when in reality, we are talking about the awakening, channeling, and transformation of one's own energy and character.

I have always maintained that the individual experience is the absolute foundation of everything; it's what matters most. Practicing meditation alongside sexual stimulation is simply sublime, and the intensity is truly profound.
When you are part of a couple, maintaining that level of control can be a bit more challenging... though certainly not impossible.

What are your thoughts on this? I am curious about what actually happens in your mind... specifically during the rituals?

For my part, periods of abstinence serve as a way to accumulate sexual energy, which I can then focus much more effectively during the actual ritual.

I view the mind as a set of tracks, if you will; certain internal processes act as the switches that direct that energy along its path.

While I grasp the theoretical framework quite well, the specific mechanics of redirecting that flow remain somewhat elusive to me. For my part, everything seems to unfold entirely spontaneously; I find myself unable—or perhaps simply unsure how—to manipulate the process or maintain any sense of conscious control over it. 🙄

It all begins with visualizing energy flow.
I’m curious—have you ever actually tried circulating energy through your own body? It’s quite an experience... you essentially visualize the sensation starting in your feet, feeling this warmth build up, and then consciously expanding that heat outward until it encompasses your entire being.

The process for managing sexual energy follows a similar logic; one starts with those fundamental energetic exercises, eventually progressing toward much more subtle methods involving imagery and archetypes.

Which leads me to wonder... why is it that you can't simply delay an orgasm?

Andrew Sanchez572 said:It all begins with visualizing energy flow.
I’m curious—have you ever actually tried circulating energy through your own body? It’s quite an experience... you essentially visualize the sensation starting in your feet, feeling this warmth build up, and then consciously expanding that heat outward until it encompasses your entire being.

The process for managing sexual energy follows a similar logic; one starts with those fundamental energetic exercises, eventually progressing toward much more subtle methods involving imagery and archetypes.

Which leads me to wonder... why is it that you can't simply delay an orgasm?

Well, my own orgasms are quite unpredictable. I have never found them to be intuitive by nature, and I found it necessary to undergo significant internal work to establish myself as a subject rather than merely an object of sexuality—moving away from external validation toward self-actualization.

However, regarding your point, I do not experience this supposed "energy wave" during intercourse. In truth, I don't feel energy at all; to me, it remains an abstract concept, much like how instrumental music might feel to you.🤣

How much do you think you actually had to work on yourself as an individual?

As for the whole concept of circulating energy during sexual arousal... honestly, very few people experience that naturally. It’s something that requires intentional practice...

I’ve been doing quite a bit of reflecting lately... It strikes me that very few people have actually experienced sexuality—true intimacy—on a level that transcends the purely physical, or even that raw, animalistic drive we often fall back on.
It feels to me as though sexual connection in the Tantric sense remains an absolute mystery to the human race. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest this, though there are also countless reasons why we remain so disconnected from it.
I suppose I am essentially offering a diagnosis of our species when it comes to our sexual nature.
My dear fellow humans, you truly haven't the slightest clue what is actually happening here...
I honestly believe we are stunted as sexual beings. And really, it isn't surprising if you take a look at how neglected we've become in the spiritual realm. We are fundamentally incomplete 😁

You simply cannot have meaningful, high-quality intimacy without spirituality, much like you can't expect flowers to bloom in a meadow without the warmth of sunlight. When I speak of spirituality, I am not referring to any organized religion or labeled dogma, but rather to the human capacity for a holistic, all-encompassing experience of reality—noticing all those small and large details that surround us. A person who hasn't achieved spiritual growth or self-realization simply isn't prepared to explore the true depths and vastness of sexual connection 😉

wiredbear2 said:I’ve been doing quite a bit of reflecting lately... It strikes me that very few people have actually experienced sexuality—true intimacy—on a level that transcends the purely physical, or even that raw, animalistic drive we often fall back on.
It feels to me as though sexual connection in the Tantric sense remains an absolute mystery to the human race. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest this, though there are also countless reasons why we remain so disconnected from it.
I suppose I am essentially offering a diagnosis of our species when it comes to our sexual nature.
My dear fellow humans, you truly haven't the slightest clue what is actually happening here...
I honestly believe we are stunted as sexual beings. And really, it isn't surprising if you take a look at how neglected we've become in the spiritual realm. We are fundamentally incomplete 😁

You simply cannot have meaningful, high-quality intimacy without spirituality, much like you can't expect flowers to bloom in a meadow without the warmth of sunlight. When I speak of spirituality, I am not referring to any organized religion or labeled dogma, but rather to the human capacity for a holistic, all-encompassing experience of reality—noticing all those small and large details that surround us. A person who hasn't achieved spiritual growth or self-realization simply isn't prepared to explore the true depths and vastness of sexual connection 😉

You sound like a bit of a guru, 🤣

Ah... life certainly seems to be weighing heavy on you lately, my dear guru... 😍

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong if you think I am... ☕

wiredbear2 said:I’ve been doing quite a bit of reflecting lately... It strikes me that very few people have actually experienced sexuality—true intimacy—on a level that transcends the purely physical, or even that raw, animalistic drive we often fall back on.
It feels to me as though sexual connection in the Tantric sense remains an absolute mystery to the human race. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest this, though there are also countless reasons why we remain so disconnected from it.
I suppose I am essentially offering a diagnosis of our species when it comes to our sexual nature.
My dear fellow humans, you truly haven't the slightest clue what is actually happening here...
I honestly believe we are stunted as sexual beings. And really, it isn't surprising if you take a look at how neglected we've become in the spiritual realm. We are fundamentally incomplete 😁

You simply cannot have meaningful, high-quality intimacy without spirituality, much like you can't expect flowers to bloom in a meadow without the warmth of sunlight. When I speak of spirituality, I am not referring to any organized religion or labeled dogma, but rather to the human capacity for a holistic, all-encompassing experience of reality—noticing all those small and large details that surround us. A person who hasn't achieved spiritual growth or self-realization simply isn't prepared to explore the true depths and vastness of sexual connection 😉

You know how I view "spiritual" sex? It’s a total emotional and physical merging of two people—but only after they've already established a profound connection on both a spiritual and emotional level. That's when you can say you've finally moved past the purely animalistic stage.
Of course, that kind of connection is incredibly rare in the real world. 😁

That said, I do think our primal side helps us evolve in its own way sometimes. Anyway, stop listening to me; I'm currently watching "Wolf" starring Jack Nicholson. 🤣

wiredbear2 said:Ah... life certainly seems to be weighing heavy on you lately, my dear guru... 😍

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong if you think I am... ☕

Look, my perspective is that we are all inherently spiritual beings; it simply comes down to whether one chooses to prioritize that connection through intentional time and focus, or if they let it slide into the background..
Furthermore, sexuality itself is an incredibly fascinating and delicate landscape, shaped by a multitude of subconscious forces that most people aren't even aware exist.

hiddenhound3 said:Look, my perspective is that we are all inherently spiritual beings; it simply comes down to whether one chooses to prioritize that connection through intentional time and focus, or if they let it slide into the background..
Furthermore, sexuality itself is an incredibly fascinating and delicate landscape, shaped by a multitude of subconscious forces that most people aren't even aware exist.

I have to disagree—not everyone is actually spiritual. It seems to me that people just love to wrap themselves in that label and call themselves 'spiritual seekers,' but if you look closely, there are very few truly spiritual individuals out there, which is quite a shame, really.

That being said, I will concede one point: everyone does indeed hold the potential to become spiritual... 😉

wiredbear2 said:I have to disagree—not everyone is actually spiritual. It seems to me that people just love to wrap themselves in that label and call themselves 'spiritual seekers,' but if you look closely, there are very few truly spiritual individuals out there, which is quite a shame, really.

That being said, I will concede one point: everyone does indeed hold the potential to become spiritual... 😉

Anyone who goes out of their way to claim such a title is essentially displaying ambition, which is a sign of having already lost their way.
The most truly spiritual individuals are almost always those who remain simple and humble.