Dark Night of the Soul

wiredbear2 said:

casualtiger2 said:The transition from the heart chakra to the throat center is particularly volatile. It is precisely what Christian mystics refer to as the "Dark Night of the Soul"...

What exactly do you mean by that? I would truly love it if you could expand on that thought just a little bit... 🙂

Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...

wiredbear2 said:What exactly do you mean by that? I would truly love it if you could expand on that thought just a little bit... 🙂[/I]

Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.

casualtiger2 said:Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...

Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.
I can only share how I personally perceive this process. In essence, the term feels quite appropriate when describing those growing pains within our evolution 😁 regarding The Spiritual One, of course.
It is that profound sensation where doubt takes hold, fundamentally questioning every single belief we have ever constructed, while the higher order of things—that place where we truly recognize our own worth—is suddenly put entirely on the line. We find ourselves standing there, no longer certain of anything at all. This state is almost always accompanied by such deeply unsettling sensations—which is precisely why it is called the Dark Night of the Soul—a soul in the midst of suffering.
For me, this manifests as a vast, overwhelming void, an absolute sense of purposelessness... a feeling that no matter where I turn my gaze, there is only darkness. I must admit, it has been quite some time since I last experienced this particular state. Yet, once it finally passes, the path ahead becomes so much clearer, revealing exactly where I am headed and the purpose behind it all...

casualtiger2 said:Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...

Yes, casualtiger2, please do elaborate 🙂. I have some familiarity with the concept of the "Dark Night of the Soul," but I don't quite see how it relates specifically to that energetic shift...

Nov 24, 2008 - This is such a fascinating subject that it really deserves its own dedicated thread...
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.
Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.
It’s that suspended state of being... stuck between "no longer" and "not yet."

Coelho talks about the Dark Night of the Soul in Bridge, using it as this metaphor for magic and mystical rituals—like it’s some kind of essential phase of training or an initiation process, you know?

I’ve really been getting curious about this lately. What exactly constitutes a "Dark Night of the Soul"

The term 'Dark Night of the Soul' is often used to describe those profound struggles that arise during one's spiritual journey. It originates from Christian rhetoric, and honestly, the name itself provides such a vivid, hauntingly beautiful description of the experience...
The concept was originally coined by Saint John of the Cross in his famous work of the same name.
For a believer or someone following a specific religious path, this manifests as a period where their entire faith is called into question—a time when doubt begins to seep into everything they once held sacred. It’s a deep suspicion of oneself, and even a suspicion of God. Those once-solid foundations start to crack and crumble. Suddenly, there is no more joy or enthusiasm found in performing religious rituals... Instead, there is this overwhelming fear of the void, a terror of losing one's footing and stability, leaving the soul feeling as though it is wandering aimlessly through total darkness. Almost every great saint mentioned in history has faced this exact kind of doubt, this very darkness. And yet, it is only by pushing through it that they ultimately reach true enlightenment.

Since every single one of us is on our own unique life journey, it doesn't really matter whether you identify as a religious person or if you simply follow a secular path of personal growth. These hardships are universal, and experiencing them is perfectly normal. Usually, after a period of wonderful spiritual insights or breakthroughs, a series of trials follows, making the path feel incredibly grueling. That initial spark of excitement just evaporates. You find yourself suddenly alone, unaccustomed to the isolation, and suffering begins to take hold. It is "alone" in the sense that any guidance feels insufficient, and every pillar of support seems to fall short...
Perhaps all of this sounds a bit too mystical, but at its core, it really boils down to a confrontation with one's own self—occurring during a certain phase of life or within a specific situation that demands everything of you, testing you on so many different levels...

I suppose the purpose of starting this thread is for us to share some of our own less-than-pleasant experiences, whether they are things we have already moved past or challenges we are currently navigating...

steelridge58 said:Unfortunately, I can't speak from personal experience—every Crisis I've dealt with so far has been pretty surface-level.
The Dark Night of the Soul is likely just another version of that—a crisis occurring when you shift from one level of consciousness to the next.
In Christian terms, Saint John of the Cross describes it as Dark Night of the Soul.

You can find similar ideas in this book, where the author references Assagioli—he was basically the pioneer of transpersonal psychology and focused heavily on spiritual crises and stages of development.

And here’s a more modern, and honestly quite authentic, description of the process (it's all in German, unfortunately, and my translation skills are non-existent).

It’s essentially that moment where Jesus cries out during a crisis, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" The old personality has dissolved, but God hasn't taken His place in the soul yet—so the person is left "alone" in the "darkness." Probably a pretty brutal experience.
1. initiation—moving from the root to the sacrum
2. from the sacrum to the navel
3. from the navel to the solar plexus
4. from the solar plexus to the throat (which would correspond to the crucifixion)
Each of these transitions brings its own share of crises, pain, and joy.
At the heart level, we're still working on personal achievement, which tends to be pretty unstable.
Throat energies align with devotion to the divine—that feeling of being moved, awestruck, or stunned by the mystery of life; that's what we feel right in that center.

It’s that suspended state of being... stuck between "no longer" and "not yet."
When we say "no longer," we mean we’ve stopped taking things in; nothing "old" is allowed through the door anymore because it's simply enough...
But "not yet" is that hesitation, that deep-seated resistance toward whatever is coming next, almost like a fear of the inevitable shift...
And that "in-between state"? It’s this undefined, hovering limbo where you’re just waiting, feeling all that heavy discomfort that comes from being stuck in total uncertainty...

wiredbear2 said:The term 'Dark Night of the Soul' is often used to describe those profound struggles that arise during one's spiritual journey. It originates from Christian rhetoric, and honestly, the name itself provides such a vivid, hauntingly beautiful description of the experience...
The concept was originally coined by Saint John of the Cross in his famous work of the same name.
For a believer or someone following a specific religious path, this manifests as a period where their entire faith is called into question—a time when doubt begins to seep into everything they once held sacred. It’s a deep suspicion of oneself, and even a suspicion of God. Those once-solid foundations start to crack and crumble. Suddenly, there is no more joy or enthusiasm found in performing religious rituals... Instead, there is this overwhelming fear of the void, a terror of losing one's footing and stability, leaving the soul feeling as though it is wandering aimlessly through total darkness. Almost every great saint mentioned in history has faced this exact kind of doubt, this very darkness. And yet, it is only by pushing through it that they ultimately reach true enlightenment.

Since every single one of us is on our own unique life journey, it doesn't really matter whether you identify as a religious person or if you simply follow a secular path of personal growth. These hardships are universal, and experiencing them is perfectly normal. Usually, after a period of wonderful spiritual insights or breakthroughs, a series of trials follows, making the path feel incredibly grueling. That initial spark of excitement just evaporates. You find yourself suddenly alone, unaccustomed to the isolation, and suffering begins to take hold. It is "alone" in the sense that any guidance feels insufficient, and every pillar of support seems to fall short...
Perhaps all of this sounds a bit too mystical, but at its core, it really boils down to a confrontation with one's own self—occurring during a certain phase of life or within a specific situation that demands everything of you, testing you on so many different levels...

I suppose the purpose of starting this thread is for us to share some of our own less-than-pleasant experiences, whether they are things we have already moved past or challenges we are currently navigating...

Exactly. But what I find so fascinating is what casualtiger2 described—that sense of an old personality dissolving away before a new one has actually stepped up to take its place, which leads to that strange limbo where you're no longer but not quite yet... a state you described perfectly as being undefined and just waiting; that deep discomfort of living in uncertainty.

Personally, I remember that experience as a period where I wore black every single day, almost as if I were mourning someone incredibly close to me, even though I didn't truly know who or what I was grieving.

Everything I embraced afterward with this desperate, almost frantic need to hold it tight so nothing could slip away, was actually offering itself up to a space that human hands simply can't reach.

🙂

Megan Ramos29 said:Coelho talks about the Dark Night of the Soul in Bridge, using it as this metaphor for magic and mystical rituals—like it’s some kind of essential phase of training or an initiation process, you know?

The core idea is that we have to confront our deepest fears head-on if we ever want to reach true enlightenment. It’s about facing exactly what scares us most.

T.S. Eliot captures this sentiment perfectly in his poem "Everyday Lament," describing his own "dark night":

...To be weak, and powerless,
and alone without anyone,
restless, and desperate...

Ultimately, we are only as strong as our ability to face our greatest terrors, fight through them, and claim our peace of mind.

Life is hard. If you’re just charging through without ever pausing to actually think about things, you’re being foolish, heartless, and fundamentally immoral—just a shallow person lacking any real spiritual depth. But when you actually take a moment to reflect and start questioning everything—yourself and everyone else (especially yourself)—you realize just how far you fall short of the person you ought to be if you truly wanted to follow the path of Jesus. I’ve experienced my own "Dark Night of the Soul." It would be incredibly difficult for me to even open up about what "happened" here on the internet; people would judge me harshly, thinking the absolute worst of me, and I might even end up realizing just how terrible I really am.

Regarding the dark night of the soul, Hamvas writes in his Cup of Curse about a state defined by festering wounds, dark imagery, anxiety, jealousy, envy, one's own internal toxins, the constant barking at one's own doorstep, chaos, an unmoored heart, and a mental turbulence bordering on madness... all resulting from a shift in consciousness and a loss of the vision of the Great Being. He describes this as a moment in life when one's very foundation is incinerated. He suggests that some people remain trapped in that void for half of their lives.

The dark night of the soul refers to that final, grueling stretch of the journey toward realization—it’s essentially the sheer grit required to leap across an absolute abyss.
During this specific phase, a practitioner loses every shred of internal or external hope regarding their spiritual progress. It feels like everything is falling apart.
But by pushing through that darkness, you finally attain the physical embodiment of realization and a mind that is completely untethered from doubt.

Hannah Wilson3 said:The dark night of the soul refers to that final, grueling stretch of the journey toward realization—it’s essentially the sheer grit required to leap across an absolute abyss.
During this specific phase, a practitioner loses every shred of internal or external hope regarding their spiritual progress. It feels like everything is falling apart.
But by pushing through that darkness, you finally attain the physical embodiment of realization and a mind that is completely untethered from doubt.

What kind of "abyss" are we even talking about here, pal!?

Care to elaborate?

It feels like we’ve finally come full circle, doesn't it... back to where everything started, yet somehow feeling entirely different because of everything we've navigated along the way... As expressed by:
That’s exactly right. But what I find truly fascinating is that point Dragan made regarding the old personality essentially dissolving away, while the new version hasn't quite stepped into its own yet... which explains that strange, unsettled state of being caught somewhere in the middle... No more... i Not quite yet...... which you described so perfectly as that lingering state of pure uncertainty—that restless, uncomfortable feeling of just waiting for something to happen while everything remains completely undefined...

I find myself grappling with that exact same question. It feels like we’re talking about a very specific kind of being "nowhere." How does one even begin to identify that state? I have this nagging suspicion that any one of us could be drifting through that void right now without even realizing it... It seems to me that you can only truly recognize it in hindsight—only once the fog lifts, once you experience that sudden realization of change, and once all the pieces of your life finally start to click back into place. Only then can you look back and say, "Oh, so that's where I was." I suppose what I'm trying to convey is that we can all find ourselves wandering through that dark night of the soul entirely unconsciously...

I suppose there’s no sense in dwelling on what’s already passed, though I find myself constantly looking back at how things used to be... It feels as if we are always searching for a way to return to that sense of clarity we once had, before everything became so complicated and fragmented... hiddenhound3 says:
Personally, I remember that period as a time when I wore black every single day, almost as if I were mourning someone incredibly close to me... yet at the same time, I didn't even know who or what I was grieving, feeling this profound sense of loss for someone I hadn't even truly known...

I can't help but wonder... do you think I could actually pull off wearing all black? Because, if I'm being honest, nearly everything in my wardrobe is that color anyway... 😬

I suppose there is a certain weight to the idea of returning, isn't there... that quiet, heavy pull toward somewhere you once called home, even if that "home" feels like a different world entirely now... It makes me wonder if we ever truly leave anything behind, or if we are just carrying the ghosts of our former selves into every new chapter we attempt to write... As expressed by:
Everything I have... And then she just leaned in and gave me a hug... With this almost irrational, desperate desire to ensure that nothing ever escapes my embrace, I was offering the very best of myself toward creating a sanctuary—a singular, sacred space where no human hand could ever reach...

🙂

As for what comes next in terms of prizes... Afterward.... 🙂

There are simply some things that transcend the reach of human hands... those moments where our own strength and skill just fall short of what’s required... But then again, one might encounter an entirely "new" personality—one that is truly just being born, perhaps even feeling more divine than human in its essence... A true metanoia... 🙂

Nigredo—it’s a shade deeper than the deepest midnight

So, I wouldn't necessarily say this whole process is directly linked to crossing the abyss—that might feel a bit out of left field since nobody there has actually experienced 😁—but perhaps if we clarify both points 🙂

I was just about to bring up Nigredo—Jung actually spent quite a bit of time exploring those specific concepts. You have to view Nigredo as that initial stage of spiritual growth; it’s essentially a process of decay, where you strip away the coarsest material aspects of yourself (much like the scorpion or the Death card in tarot). From there, you move toward Rubedo, eventually reaching the final state of Albedo 🙂

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on that—since you've already brought up Nigredo...

😉

I am quite uncertain as to how much detail I should provide. My own personal experiences feel far too intimate and profound for me to simply write them down here.

The Scorpion represents, following Libra, that pivotal transition from the material realm into the spiritual one. It is a process characterized by the burning away and subsequent decay of the ego—all those titles and labels we used to decorate ourselves—and an encounter with death itself, or rather, a shift in consciousness, albeit through a harsh and unlovely medium. We are talking about spiritual insights that arrive unbidden or catch us entirely off guard. This often manifests as a prolonged period of depression, lethargy, and a sense of utter emptiness, which can drag on for quite some time. It serves as the first true trial on the spiritual path; the weakest among us often falter here, only to resume their journey in subsequent lifetimes.

Many who experience this find themselves losing their grip on reality. This phase typically follows that initial burst of euphoria one feels when they first begin walking the path of enlightenment.

Regarding Indian astrology, this period is linked to Saturn transiting over one's natal Moon—the Sadhe Sat—a seven-year stretch of misfortune where even a king might find himself reduced to a beggar.

Furthermore, I wouldn't necessarily link it to the Abyss, but rather to Paroket. Though, of course, that is merely my own perspective...😁
In that sense, it is also intrinsically tied to the Tower and the Art.