Different spiritual paths

Kimberly Evans said:shadownomad4, I’m having a hard time following your take on the teachings and spirituality of Joshua Messiah. Could you walk me through what you actually mean by "the desire to remain with Him"? Does anything specific happen when that desire is present?
Well, surely you realize that desire alone isn't enough. It’s also about the quality of that desire. Most importantly, and most vitally for salvation, is the act of following the Messiah's commands—which means guarding the Word. In plain terms, it means making a serious, heartfelt effort to stop sinning.
The idea of "unconditional forgiveness" as you've described it can actually be challenged by quite a few of Joshua Messiah's own words.
(Yes—If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father,
but—Go, and sin no more,
and—Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.)

shadownomad4 said:Of course, you should carry the command to "sin no more" within your heart, but if you do stumble, the crucial thing is to avoid falling into self-condemnation. That is exactly what Satan wants; he tries to pull you back under the Law, under which no one has ever succeeded in remaining righteous before God. This is precisely why Christ came—to liberate us from that burden. The process of conversion takes time, so through the forgiveness and grace that Christ provided via His Cross, a person can move forward without being crushed by condemnation. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ." I don't recall the exact verse location, but the sentiment is clearly written.

Regarding desire: you can only want things up to a certain point. True desire flows from Him once you receive Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit and prayer, asking Him to stir up the will and the volition as He speaks the Word. He opens up a genuine longing to be with Him constantly—in your thoughts, and eventually through your actions. In doing so, sinful habits spontaneously fall away because they are replaced by a relationship with Him (through the Holy Spirit).

That is why I maintain that all effort is in vain until you receive the Holy Spirit.

shadownomad4 said:Of course, you should carry the command to "sin no more" within your heart, but if you do stumble, the crucial thing is to avoid falling into self-condemnation. That is exactly what Satan wants; he tries to pull you back under the Law, under which no one has ever succeeded in remaining righteous before God. This is precisely why Christ came—to liberate us from that burden. The process of conversion takes time, so through the forgiveness and grace that Christ provided via His Cross, a person can move forward without being crushed by condemnation. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ." I don't recall the exact verse location, but the sentiment is clearly written.

Regarding desire: you can only want things up to a certain point. True desire flows from Him once you receive Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit and prayer, asking Him to stir up the will and the volition as He speaks the Word. He opens up a genuine longing to be with Him constantly—in your thoughts, and eventually through your actions. In doing so, sinful habits spontaneously fall away because they are replaced by a relationship with Him (through the Holy Spirit).

That is why I maintain that all effort is in vain until you receive the Holy Spirit.

mistygull16 said:Look, shadownomad4, I think you're a good guy and I believe Jesus loves you, but honestly? What you're saying feels pretty naive, almost like something out of a kid's book. It's not like Jesus or Satan are comic book villains where we're just waiting to see which hero wins the fight. That's not how you read the Bible; it doesn't line up with science or even just basic common sense. We know dinosaurs existed, we know about evolution... the idea that everything popped into existence overnight from Adam and Eve is more of a metaphor. Reading things that way just breeds fear and makes people hate other religions. It ends up making God look like some kind of tyrant, which is exactly what you're preaching. But God is love. He isn't out to torture anyone for eternity. Take it easy!

Richard Walker79 said:Does suffering actually exist?

If such a thing even exists—who exactly is held accountable?🙂

mistygull16 said:Bad karma, I guess. Or maybe it's just what Jesus meant when he talked about reaping what you sow (from whatever happened in those past lives).😢

Richard Walker79 said:Does suffering actually exist?

If such a thing even exists—who exactly is held accountable?🙂

nimblemaker30 said:No, suffering doesn't truly exist. All of this—this whole messy experience—it feels incredibly real, doesn't it? But in truth, it’s all an illusion, nothing more than a dream. Because our perception is so inherently illusory, and because we lack any real understanding of WHO WE ARE, this concept of "suffering" emerges as just another layer of that mirage.

If there is a will behind any given action, then the responsibility rests solely with that will. But if we consider that free will is itself a myth, and that everything unfolding is simply God's will, isn't it true that no one else can be blamed? It falls squarely on Him—the Creator, the owner, and the CEO of this entire universe, who seemingly forgets to watch what He's dreaming about.

Joseph Ramos11 said:That sounds great. In that case, would you mind transferring all your assets to my name? Since your suffering from being broke would just be an illusion, right?😛

Jokes aside, what you're saying is true, but it doesn't really help much when someone actually throws a rock at your foot and it hurts...

By the way, in that context, any kind of pleasure is also just an illusion...

Joseph Ramos11 said:That sounds great. In that case, would you mind transferring all your assets to my name? Since your suffering from being broke would just be an illusion, right?😛

Jokes aside, what you're saying is true, but it doesn't really help much when someone actually throws a rock at your foot and it hurts...

By the way, in that context, any kind of pleasure is also just an illusion...

wearyowl29 said:But why?

I mean, what exactly is the Holy Spirit? Was He not already present here all along???

Michael Moore3 said:Jesus' teachings always pertain to the life we are living right now.

Karma isn't really the cause of suffering; rather, it just sets the starting line for your next reincarnation, though it doesn't dictate the actual hardship you might face in that next life. For instance, someone might not suffer at all in their next incarnation if they return as, say, a snail due to bad karma in this life, only to eventually earn their way back into a higher being during their time as a snail. On the flip side, someone reincarnated as a human—perhaps someone born into high society or a position of privilege—could easily descend into the absolute gutter of humanity simply because that "good" starting position gave them the leeway to ignore the spiritual growth that would have been so much easier to achieve from such a vantage point.

Suffering in this life is exclusively the result of ourselves—specifically, our own current actions during this lifetime. As my old man used to say, "nobody can cause you as much trouble as you can cause yourself," and I’d probably add Buddha’s take to that: "Desire is the root of all suffering."

shadownomad4 said:Who is the Holy Spirit?

Question: Who is the Holy Spirit?

Answer: There are many misconceptions regarding the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit merely as a mystical force. Others perceive Him as an impersonal power that God imparts to Christ's followers. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? To put it simply—the Bible states that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being possessing His own mind, emotions, and will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly demonstrated in many parts of Scripture, including Acts 5:3-4. In these verses, Peter confronts Ananias because he lied to the Holy Spirit, stating that he "has not lied to men, but to God." From this statement, it is evident that lying to the Holy Spirit is simultaneously lying to God. Furthermore, we know the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes and characteristics of God. For instance, in Psalm 139:7-8, we see the reality of the Holy Spirit's omnipresence: "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in the Underworld, you are there." Additionally, in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we observe the attribute of the all-knowing Holy Spirit: "these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For what person knows the things of God except the spirit of a man in him? So also no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God."

We can conclude that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). We can grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). The Holy Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His own will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person in the Holy Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit truly functions as the Comforter and Counselor whom Jesus promised to send (John 14:16, 26; 15:26).

Adapted from the website www.gotquestion.org for the American version.

The Holy Spirit has been present on earth for 2,000 years and is omnipresent; however, He is a gentleman and only comes when called. He does not force Himself upon anyone, unlike evil spirits that attack people's thoughts and drive them toward various evils, making them believe they came up with those ideas themselves.

Essentially, without the Holy Spirit, no one stands a chance against the attacker (Satan and his demons). No one can grasp the depths of divine Truth except Him; therefore, it is for this reason that without Him, we cannot reach revelation concerning God's will or come to know it through the Bible.

nimblemaker30 said:No, suffering doesn't truly exist. All of this—this whole messy experience—it feels incredibly real, doesn't it? But in truth, it’s all an illusion, nothing more than a dream. Because our perception is so inherently illusory, and because we lack any real understanding of WHO WE ARE, this concept of "suffering" emerges as just another layer of that mirage.

If there is a will behind any given action, then the responsibility rests solely with that will. But if we consider that free will is itself a myth, and that everything unfolding is simply God's will, isn't it true that no one else can be blamed? It falls squarely on Him—the Creator, the owner, and the CEO of this entire universe, who seemingly forgets to watch what He's dreaming about.

nimblemaker30 said:Are you trying to be a missionary with those quotes you just Googled...😵😵 😵

You missed the right subforum. Your posts belong in the religion section. This specific subforum supports free-form spirituality—you know, introspective spirituality outside of religious organizations.

Aside from you saying in your own words that the Holy Spirit is a gentleman and not evil like the bad spirits, everything else you just copied and pasted. Anyone can Google what you pasted. And that bit you said in your own words? It was a little childish.

The issue isn't that you don't know what or who the Holy Spirit is. Nobody truly knows. It's not a problem that you explained the unknown to someone else—meaning you said the Holy Spirit is God. Since everyone knows God, they'll immediately understand what the Holy Spirit is... But nobody truly knows God; God cannot be known... So the problem isn't your lack of knowledge regarding God or the Holy Spirit; the problem is that you have this urge to preach here and try to convert and save people. It’s irritating, infantile, and honestly, kind of funny.👎

Richard Walker79 said:This kind of teaching isn't meant for those who remain ignorant; you can't really "teach" these truths.
Only someone who has completely transcended suffering can say this, but there are very few such people, and they cannot teach it to others.

Richard Walker79 said:That's just where he is right now; he still has a long way to climb.

nimblemaker30 said:Are you trying to be a missionary with those quotes you just Googled...😵😵 😵

You missed the right subforum. Your posts belong in the religion section. This specific subforum supports free-form spirituality—you know, introspective spirituality outside of religious organizations.

Aside from you saying in your own words that the Holy Spirit is a gentleman and not evil like the bad spirits, everything else you just copied and pasted. Anyone can Google what you pasted. And that bit you said in your own words? It was a little childish.

The issue isn't that you don't know what or who the Holy Spirit is. Nobody truly knows. It's not a problem that you explained the unknown to someone else—meaning you said the Holy Spirit is God. Since everyone knows God, they'll immediately understand what the Holy Spirit is... But nobody truly knows God; God cannot be known... So the problem isn't your lack of knowledge regarding God or the Holy Spirit; the problem is that you have this urge to preach here and try to convert and save people. It’s irritating, infantile, and honestly, kind of funny.👎

Kimberly Evans said:http://www.biblegateway.com
Regarding this whole self-condemnation thing... could you please point me to an example from the four Gospels where the God-man speaks in a way that encourages negativity, or rather, useless self-judgment?

shadownomad4 said:I provided an answer regarding the Holy Spirit and referred to that page because it is more comprehensive than my own comment and is supported by biblical verses.

Furthermore, the Holy Spirit resides within me, so I am well aware of who He is. The proof of His presence in my life is my ability to speak in tongues, if you are familiar with the concept. "Those who believe... shall speak in other tongues..." If you desire that same experience, you can look through other similar posts, or I can guide you right here.

Everything that is spiritual follows a spiritual path.

bluetiger23 said:Which specific community are you part of?

And just a thought, but if we follow that logic, I guess certain rituals from primitive tribes in Africa involve making all sorts of sounds and falling into trances to prophesy—does that mean they're under the influence of Satan, then?🙄

shadownomad4;15469287 said:

To's the way I see it—the Bible says the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with His own mind, feelings, and will.

Every single culture across the globe has encountered this—this special something, this vital force or energy... they just call it by different names everywhere you go;
Ki (Japan), Chi (China), Prana (Indian yoga), Mana (Polynesia), Ruach (Hebrew), Barraka (Islam)... and so on.

The Holy Spirit is simply the expression of that very thing—something you can't see, but you can absolutely feel its impact.
Whether that constitutes God is really never even a question...

The Holy Spirit has been present here on Earth for 2,000 years now. He is omnipresent, but He’s a total gentleman. He only shows up when called upon; He doesn't force Himself on anyone like those evil spirits that invade people's thoughts and trick them into committing wrongs, making them think it was their own bright idea.

A gentleman...😂 😂 😂
Oh boy, oh my... at this rate, all we need now is a rose to go with our gentlemanly Spirit!

Basically, without the Holy Spirit, nobody stands a chance against the attacker (Satan and his spirits). No one can grasp the depths of divine Truth except Him, which is exactly why we can't reach any revelation regarding God's will or truly understand it through the Bible without Him.

Don't go missionary on me now...😉