Physical Desires vs. Human Dignity and Unfulfilled Dreams...

There’s something that’s been weighing on my mind for a couple of days now, and I honestly wasn't sure how to even start this thread 🙂

therefore, a local priest in a small town said this during the memorial service for Kristina Šušnjar:

"This young woman risked everything to fight for her own dignity and to defend her honor. She proved she would rather die than betray her youthful ideals—rather lose her physical life than trample over her human dignity and leave her dreams unfulfilled. By her martyr-like death, Kristina has been counted among the great women of our era," emphasized Ćubelić.

Okay, putting aside the absolute horror and tragedy of the whole situation—and don't get me wrong, the facts of this horrific murder are devastating—but is Kristina actually a hero? How did this poor girl (please don't take this as an attack on her, that's not what I'm doing at all, I just want to understand why the priest would say something so... questionable, IMHO) become a hero or a heroine? How exactly was she defending her "honor"?
Why, in the end, can we count her among the great women of our time?

Am I the only one seeing this clearly?

I don't know if it's just about how hard it is for people to stomach death—especially when it’s a young person taken violently—so they try to wrap it up in some fake sense of purpose. They claim firefighters died defending the country, even though they weren't out there protecting the flag; they were just putting out brush fires. Or they claim this girl was beaten beyond recognition because she sacrificed her dignity, honor, and dreams on an altar. Or maybe they're just focusing on some dominant personality trait, but I won't go there unless I want to get banned for being insulting.

Would these firefighters really be out there "defending the nation" by fighting brush fires if they knew what was coming? Or would they say, "Screw the grass, even if it is American, it's not worth dying for"? What would Kristina have chosen if she had to decide between being a victim of assault or murder?

And how much of an idiot does a celebrated local pastor have to be to insinuate that a woman loses her dignity and honor through assault? To glorify death as a better alternative than losing "human dignity and unfulfilled dreams"? What kind of message is he sending to every other survivor out there? 🤮 🤮 🤮
Would she be considered a heroine? Some raped girl who, having lost her virtue, her dignity, and her dreams, decides to jump off a church tower? 🤮

Jose Miller3 said:There’s something that’s been weighing on my mind for a couple of days now, and I honestly wasn't sure how to even start this thread 🙂

therefore, a local priest in a small town said this during the memorial service for Kristina Šušnjar:

"This young woman risked everything to fight for her own dignity and to defend her honor. She proved she would rather die than betray her youthful ideals—rather lose her physical life than trample over her human dignity and leave her dreams unfulfilled. By her martyr-like death, Kristina has been counted among the great women of our era," emphasized Ćubelić.

Okay, putting aside the absolute horror and tragedy of the whole situation—and don't get me wrong, the facts of this horrific murder are devastating—but is Kristina actually a hero? How did this poor girl (please don't take this as an attack on her, that's not what I'm doing at all, I just want to understand why the priest would say something so... questionable, IMHO) become a hero or a heroine? How exactly was she defending her "honor"?
Why, in the end, can we count her among the great women of our time?

Am I the only one seeing this clearly?

OT
he stated🙄
Honestly, it makes me sick...
who even is that🙂
I don't even know what to say. I'd probably just use an emoji because if I actually said what I'm thinking, I'd get banned.🙄-----
But her father made a similar statement too. I know it's low to attack a parent, but that damn priest, I mean, seriously...
-
In the traditional sense, they aren't heroes (like firefighters), and she isn't just some "unfortunate girl." They are victims—the first victims of tragic circumstances or perhaps sheer indifference—and she is a victim of a criminal act.

Edward Green said:I don't know if it's just about how hard it is for people to stomach death—especially when it’s a young person taken violently—so they try to wrap it up in some fake sense of purpose. They claim firefighters died defending the country, even though they weren't out there protecting the flag; they were just putting out brush fires. Or they claim this girl was beaten beyond recognition because she sacrificed her dignity, honor, and dreams on an altar. Or maybe they're just focusing on some dominant personality trait, but I won't go there unless I want to get banned for being insulting.

Would these firefighters really be out there "defending the nation" by fighting brush fires if they knew what was coming? Or would they say, "Screw the grass, even if it is American, it's not worth dying for"? What would Kristina have chosen if she had to decide between being a victim of assault or murder?

And how much of an idiot does a celebrated local pastor have to be to insinuate that a woman loses her dignity and honor through assault? To glorify death as a better alternative than losing "human dignity and unfulfilled dreams"? What kind of message is he sending to every other survivor out there? 🤮 🤮 🤮
Would she be considered a heroine? Some raped girl who, having lost her virtue, her dignity, and her dreams, decides to jump off a church tower? 🤮

Unfortunately, his perspective probably isn't much different from the mindset of the community where this crime actually happened. I've read statements from the defendants, and it seems people are finding him somewhat "understandable"—using that awful logic of "he's a man, he had to try, he just went too far" 🙂. When you combine that with these recent comments, you get a truly horrific picture of how many people actually think this way. I know that's not how things work in my neck of the woods, but coming from an environment where those views are unthinkable, it’s genuinely jarring to see people living not even that far from me who actually reason like this..
I know this is a bit off-topic, but it’s honestly pretty disturbing.--

Jose Miller3 said:There’s something that’s been weighing on my mind for a couple of days now, and I honestly wasn't sure how to even start this thread 🙂

therefore, a local priest in a small town said this during the memorial service for Kristina Šušnjar:

"This young woman risked everything to fight for her own dignity and to defend her honor. She proved she would rather die than betray her youthful ideals—rather lose her physical life than trample over her human dignity and leave her dreams unfulfilled. By her martyr-like death, Kristina has been counted among the great women of our era," emphasized Ćubelić.

Okay, putting aside the absolute horror and tragedy of the whole situation—and don't get me wrong, the facts of this horrific murder are devastating—but is Kristina actually a hero? How did this poor girl (please don't take this as an attack on her, that's not what I'm doing at all, I just want to understand why the priest would say something so... questionable, IMHO) become a hero or a heroine? How exactly was she defending her "honor"?
Why, in the end, can we count her among the great women of our time?

Am I the only one seeing this clearly?

It was on the news—her father said something along those lines, suggesting she died defending her honor and dignity... it left me feeling so unsettled. Is he trying to suggest his child was a heroine, perhaps hoping that framing it that way might ease his own grief, or... well, as a mother, I wouldn't dare speculate and risk touching someone else's raw emotions... yet, looking at it from another angle, if she had simply given in to the assault, she might have spent the rest of her life struggling with trauma while still being alive...
It is just so incredibly difficult to discuss any of this... we could hypothetically say, "it would have been better if she had never stepped into that car," but we all know how pointless that is... much like saying "it would have been better if that guy hadn't dropped a cigarette butt on Kornat so many young lives wouldn't have been lost"... but we can certainly sit here and lament about it...

It almost makes it seem like heroism is just an illusion... though we often only realize that much later, once we see things through the lens of different insights and hard truths...
If that weren't the case, if we didn't act differently in moments of extreme danger, we would simply be cowards...

🤷

Edward Green said:I don't know if it's just about how hard it is for people to stomach death—especially when it’s a young person taken violently—so they try to wrap it up in some fake sense of purpose. They claim firefighters died defending the country, even though they weren't out there protecting the flag; they were just putting out brush fires. Or they claim this girl was beaten beyond recognition because she sacrificed her dignity, honor, and dreams on an altar. Or maybe they're just focusing on some dominant personality trait, but I won't go there unless I want to get banned for being insulting.

Would these firefighters really be out there "defending the nation" by fighting brush fires if they knew what was coming? Or would they say, "Screw the grass, even if it is American, it's not worth dying for"? What would Kristina have chosen if she had to decide between being a victim of assault or murder?

And how much of an idiot does a celebrated local pastor have to be to insinuate that a woman loses her dignity and honor through assault? To glorify death as a better alternative than losing "human dignity and unfulfilled dreams"? What kind of message is he sending to every other survivor out there? 🤮 🤮 🤮
Would she be considered a heroine? Some raped girl who, having lost her virtue, her dignity, and her dreams, decides to jump off a church tower? 🤮

To be honest, those clergy members always rub me the wrong way when they start lecturing me about a way of life they don't even practice themselves...

The man seems to be drawing inspiration from that old American legend about militi Gojsalić...🙄
Could his words ever truly offer any comfort to her parents or her brother??? If they could—then fine, more power to the minister! But personally, I have my doubts...😕

Zachary Collins2 said:To be honest, those clergy members always rub me the wrong way when they start lecturing me about a way of life they don't even practice themselves...

The man seems to be drawing inspiration from that old American legend about militi Gojsalić...🙄
Could his words ever truly offer any comfort to her parents or her brother??? If they could—then fine, more power to the minister! But personally, I have my doubts...😕

It’s not just that, though; it’s the fact that we’re basically regressing to the Middle Ages in how we treat victims of sexual assault. It’s like they've completely lost their sense of dignity😠,

blueheron62 said:It’s not just that, though; it’s the fact that we’re basically regressing to the Middle Ages in how we treat victims of sexual assault. It’s like they've completely lost their sense of dignity😠,

Wait, so what, they "aren't"? Does that mean it's totally fine? Like, just lie down and enjoy the ride while it lasts?

The governor's statement is spot on for a million different reasons. I honestly don't get how anyone can even question this, especially since you women 👎

casualowl1 said:Wait, so what, they "aren't"? Does that mean it's totally fine? Like, just lie down and enjoy the ride while it lasts?

The governor's statement is spot on for a million different reasons. I honestly don't get how anyone can even question this, especially since you women 👎

Someone should get a permanent ban for saying that.
Are you even aware that by saying that, you've basically stripped rape of its status as a criminal offense? You're making me sick.

casualowl1 said:Wait, so what, they "aren't"? Does that mean it's totally fine? Like, just lie down and enjoy the ride while it lasts?

The governor's statement is spot on for a million different reasons. I honestly don't get how anyone can even question this, especially since you women 👎

Exactly. It’s the same old logic they used back during the Salem witch trials.

The Marlboro Man. That whole era was pure myth-making. They sold us this rugged, silent archetype of masculinity that basically promised if you lit up, you’d suddenly become a cowboy roaming the frontier. It was all smoke and mirrors, honestly. Just massive, calculated branding designed to make a cigarette feel like an adventure. Hard to believe how much people swallowed that stuff back in the day. [User] says:
And what if they aren't?

How does anyone lose their dignity or honor through rape? It’s the rapist who loses his honor, not the victim. Being a victim of sexual assault—or any damn crime for that matter—doesn't make someone worth any less as a person. How exactly are these women supposed to "lose" their dignity? Sure, the rapist treats them like they have none, but that doesn't mean they actually lost it.

I honestly don't get it. How do you lose your own dignity just because of something someone else did? It makes zero sense. Someone else.I'm trying, but I just can't get it right.

So that's basically it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

I honestly can't wrap my head around it. How can someone smart enough to learn the alphabet at the same time be this incredibly stupid? 🙂

The Governor's statement was spot on. I don't get how you can even try to question it—especially considering you're women. 👎

The Governor’s statement basically implies it's better to be dead than raped, and that this girl made some conscious choice. Give me a break. I know several women who have survived assault and they’re living normal lives today—mostly happy, even. On the flip side? I don't know a single person who was dead at one point and is now walking around feeling satisfied with life. Or even just unsatisfied but holding onto hope that things will get better. Maybe I’m a total piece of trash without any sense of "honor" or dignity, or maybe I just have failed dreams, but I wouldn't hesitate for a single second. And I have no clue where she gets the idea that she's the one responsible. I highly doubt anyone ever asked her, "Hey, do you want me to assault you, or should I just lock you in a room until your family can't even recognize you?"

The Governor’s statement is a joke. He’s basically saying honor and dignity aren't about who you are or how you act—it’s just about whether someone decides to screw you over. That is absolutely deranged. What, are you only an honorable person if nobody treats you like trash? So, you're "dishonorable" because you're a refugee? Or because someone burned your house down? Or because you got hit by a car? Or does this little rule only apply to victims of sexual assault? Make it make sense. 😕 So, "ordinary" victims of violence are just victims, right? But if a woman is raped, suddenly she’s some dishonorable victim without any human dignity left? That is messed up. Seriously. It’s twisted.

The Governor’s statement basically implies that death is a better option than losing your honor and dignity—which, by the way, you lose when someone rapes you. What a fantastic message to send to survivors. Just great. 👍

unknown🙂, yeah..
I don't have much patience for this, honestly. I get pretty worked up about stuff like this, especially since it feels impossible to even explain the reality of sexual assault when you're talking to someone who views women as nothing more than objects.

DEBELKURAC said:The real damage from denying women sexual agency shows up in the trauma of survivors. The attacker is just a fraction of the evil here. Most of the psychological torture comes from the moralists, the judgment from everyone around them, and then the victim blaming themselves. Even when it’s forced on them against their will, they're treated like they "willingly" slept with someone. They carry this massive weight of guilt. It's devastating.

It feels like all this talk about a survivor's "honor" boils down to one thing: if a woman doesn't have the right to sex, she's a slut. If she's forced, she isn't quite a slut anymore, but people still won't view her as an honorable woman.

Disgusting, slimy, backwards mindset. 🤮

I feel sick for these women. On top of the assault itself, they have to deal with a society that judges them—a society that honestly thinks they'd be better off dead than having "lost their dignity."

Just wanted to give a quick shout-out to the mod for splitting this off and making it clear that I didn't actually come up with this thread title 😁

If someone just mumbled this nonsense on some street corner in Chicago, I probably wouldn't even bother responding...
But we’re talking about a priest here—someone who’s supposedly highly educated. And since they’re considered "spiritual" leaders, there’s this whole default assumption that they shouldn't just represent the people, but actually "guide" them in some higher sense...
So, I guess, in their eyes, they have to be superior and smarter than the rest of us masses...

Honestly, the fact that he’s reduced his entire sense of dignity to some pathetic object of worship tells you everything you need to know about how miserable that man's life really is...

I mean, maybe—and this is a big maybe—we could just assume he said it all just to try and comfort his relatives.

blueheron62 said:Someone should get a permanent ban for saying that.
Are you even aware that by saying that, you've basically stripped rape of its status as a criminal offense? You're making me sick.

Look, can we please just act like normal human beings for a second? Where are you even coming from with this? I get grossed out by tons of stuff too, but that's not the point. If you don't think rape is a massive violation of human rights and basic dignity, then what is it? Just a "crime"? It's the exact same thing as running a red light. That's total nonsense. Those are two completely different universes.

Edward Green said:

The Marlboro Man. That whole era was pure myth-making. They sold us this rugged, silent archetype of masculinity that basically promised if you lit up, you’d suddenly become a cowboy roaming the frontier. It was all smoke and mirrors, honestly. Just massive, calculated branding designed to make a cigarette feel like an adventure. Hard to believe how much people swallowed that stuff back in the day. [User] says:
And what if they aren't?

How does anyone lose their dignity or honor through rape? It’s the rapist who loses his honor, not the victim. Being a victim of sexual assault—or any damn crime for that matter—doesn't make someone worth any less as a person. How exactly are these women supposed to "lose" their dignity? Sure, the rapist treats them like they have none, but that doesn't mean they actually lost it.

I honestly don't get it. How do you lose your own dignity just because of something someone else did? It makes zero sense. Someone else.I'm trying, but I just can't get it right.

So that's basically it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

I honestly can't wrap my head around it. How can someone smart enough to learn the alphabet at the same time be this incredibly stupid? 🙂

The Governor's statement was spot on. I don't get how you can even try to question it—especially considering you're women. 👎

The Governor’s statement basically implies it's better to be dead than raped, and that this girl made some conscious choice. Give me a break. I know several women who have survived assault and they’re living normal lives today—mostly happy, even. On the flip side? I don't know a single person who was dead at one point and is now walking around feeling satisfied with life. Or even just unsatisfied but holding onto hope that things will get better. Maybe I’m a total piece of trash without any sense of "honor" or dignity, or maybe I just have failed dreams, but I wouldn't hesitate for a single second. And I have no clue where she gets the idea that she's the one responsible. I highly doubt anyone ever asked her, "Hey, do you want me to assault you, or should I just lock you in a room until your family can't even recognize you?"

The Governor’s statement is a joke. He’s basically saying honor and dignity aren't about who you are or how you act—it’s just about whether someone decides to screw you over. That is absolutely deranged. What, are you only an honorable person if nobody treats you like trash? So, you're "dishonorable" because you're a refugee? Or because someone burned your house down? Or because you got hit by a car? Or does this little rule only apply to victims of sexual assault? Make it make sense. 😕 So, "ordinary" victims of violence are just victims, right? But if a woman is raped, suddenly she’s some dishonorable victim without any human dignity left? That is messed up. Seriously. It’s twisted.

The Governor’s statement basically implies that death is a better option than losing your honor and dignity—which, by the way, you lose when someone rapes you. What a fantastic message to send to survivors. Just great. 👍

Some people spend their entire lives trying and still fail. That’s on you.

If someone kidnapped you, forced you into sex work, and sold you as a slave—forcing you into drugs, abortions, or even those horrific hymen surgeries—would you really say you haven't lost your dignity and honor? Just because it was someone else pulling the strings?
Maybe you wouldn't "lose" it, but it would be violently stripped away from you. It's exactly what that guy was attempting to do to her.

Edward Green said:

The Marlboro Man. That whole era was pure myth-making. They sold us this rugged, silent archetype of masculinity that basically promised if you lit up, you’d suddenly become a cowboy roaming the frontier. It was all smoke and mirrors, honestly. Just massive, calculated branding designed to make a cigarette feel like an adventure. Hard to believe how much people swallowed that stuff back in the day. [User] says:
And what if they aren't?

How does anyone lose their dignity or honor through rape? It’s the rapist who loses his honor, not the victim. Being a victim of sexual assault—or any damn crime for that matter—doesn't make someone worth any less as a person. How exactly are these women supposed to "lose" their dignity? Sure, the rapist treats them like they have none, but that doesn't mean they actually lost it.

I honestly don't get it. How do you lose your own dignity just because of something someone else did? It makes zero sense. Someone else.I'm trying, but I just can't get it right.

So that's basically it. Just sit back and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

I honestly can't wrap my head around it. How can someone smart enough to learn the alphabet at the same time be this incredibly stupid? 🙂

The Governor's statement was spot on. I don't get how you can even try to question it—especially considering you're women. 👎

The Governor’s statement basically implies it's better to be dead than raped, and that this girl made some conscious choice. Give me a break. I know several women who have survived assault and they’re living normal lives today—mostly happy, even. On the flip side? I don't know a single person who was dead at one point and is now walking around feeling satisfied with life. Or even just unsatisfied but holding onto hope that things will get better. Maybe I’m a total piece of trash without any sense of "honor" or dignity, or maybe I just have failed dreams, but I wouldn't hesitate for a single second. And I have no clue where she gets the idea that she's the one responsible. I highly doubt anyone ever asked her, "Hey, do you want me to assault you, or should I just lock you in a room until your family can't even recognize you?"

The Governor’s statement is a joke. He’s basically saying honor and dignity aren't about who you are or how you act—it’s just about whether someone decides to screw you over. That is absolutely deranged. What, are you only an honorable person if nobody treats you like trash? So, you're "dishonorable" because you're a refugee? Or because someone burned your house down? Or because you got hit by a car? Or does this little rule only apply to victims of sexual assault? Make it make sense. 😕 So, "ordinary" victims of violence are just victims, right? But if a woman is raped, suddenly she’s some dishonorable victim without any human dignity left? That is messed up. Seriously. It’s twisted.

The Governor’s statement basically implies that death is a better option than losing your honor and dignity—which, by the way, you lose when someone rapes you. What a fantastic message to send to survivors. Just great. 👍

His statement implies that you have to fight back.
Your take implies that it's better to just give in the moment someone looks at you wrong. At least you stay alive that way. That's a pathetic way to live.

Also, the statement strongly emphasizes that dignity and honor depend entirely on a person's own actions. And she chose to fight for herself. She fought for her dignity, her honor, her human rights, and ultimately, her life.

He's saying we should fight against assault.
You're implying we shouldn't resist because if we fail, we might lose our lives.

There is immense honor in dying while fighting for your ideals, for freedom, and for your basic human dignity. But what do you actually know about honor and respect? You seem to think they're just handed to you by God and don't need to be earned or fought for.

And the saddest part is that you're ignoring the fact that the man who said this knew her personally and understood her values, whereas you don't have a clue.

Kyle Nelson2 said:If someone just mumbled this nonsense on some street corner in Chicago, I probably wouldn't even bother responding...
But we’re talking about a priest here—someone who’s supposedly highly educated. And since they’re considered "spiritual" leaders, there’s this whole default assumption that they shouldn't just represent the people, but actually "guide" them in some higher sense...
So, I guess, in their eyes, they have to be superior and smarter than the rest of us masses...

Honestly, the fact that he’s reduced his entire sense of dignity to some pathetic object of worship tells you everything you need to know about how miserable that man's life really is...

I mean, maybe—and this is a big maybe—we could just assume he said it all just to try and comfort his relatives.

Did you even actually read what the man said?

"I'd rather die than betray my ideals," or "Better a grave than slavery."😁

Where on earth are you seeing anything about "worshiping an object"? 🙏

casualowl1 said:Some people spend their entire lives trying and still fail. That’s on you.

If someone kidnapped you, forced you into sex work, and sold you as a slave—forcing you into drugs, abortions, or even those horrific hymen surgeries—would you really say you haven't lost your dignity and honor? Just because it was someone else pulling the strings?
Maybe you wouldn't "lose" it, but it would be violently stripped away from you. It's exactly what that guy was attempting to do to her.

His statement implies that you have to fight back.
Your take implies that it's better to just give in the moment someone looks at you wrong. At least you stay alive that way. That's a pathetic way to live.

Also, the statement strongly emphasizes that dignity and honor depend entirely on a person's own actions. And she chose to fight for herself. She fought for her dignity, her honor, her human rights, and ultimately, her life.

He's saying we should fight against assault.
You're implying we shouldn't resist because if we fail, we might lose our lives.

There is immense honor in dying while fighting for your ideals, for freedom, and for your basic human dignity. But what do you actually know about honor and respect? You seem to think they're just handed to you by God and don't need to be earned or fought for.

And the saddest part is that you're ignoring the fact that the man who said this knew her personally and understood her values, whereas you don't have a clue.

That was my interpretation of the remark as well.🙂

So, the priest put it this way:
"She proved she was willing to face death rather than betray her youthful ideals; she chose to lose her physical life instead of trampling upon her human dignity and her unfulfilled dreams."
I suppose the wording was a bit clumsy, though I suspect its primary purpose was to offer comfort to the family and send a message to other women to hold their ground. It feels a little awkward because it’s hard to imagine a young girl preoccupied with such heavy ideological reflections at a time like that—truthfully, it's impossible to know what crosses a person's mind in those moments, as it likely varies from one individual to the next.
As for how we interpret that statement and this ongoing debate—women who have been victims of sexual assault certainly suffer humiliation and have their dignity violated, but their honor remains intact; it seems that is something John Doe still fails to grasp.