Šešelj destroys the witness

Sam Alvarez15 said:

The real dilemma here seems to be whether he actually possesses any social charisma—or at least the ability to hold his own in a debate regarding socio-historical or political matters. Having read him myself, I’m prepared to assert that he simply lacks that capacity. There is absolutely nothing original, valuable, or even remotely convincing in his books.

First and foremost, he is a politician. A populist and a demagogue.
And he relies entirely on catering to a primitive voter base.

His books likely target the semi-literate and the gullible myth-makers. Honestly, I suspect very few people actually bother reading them... even if we're talking about his most die-hard supporters.
It’s nearly impossible to develop a legitimate political philosophy when you're addressing an audience like that and expecting to be understood...
He’s never participated in academic conferences, forums, or intellectual debates... (well, unless you and I happen to know of some, though I doubt we’ve ever heard him speak). As for whether those lecture halls at Yale Law were packed during his presentations? Who knows.

Everything just boiled down to demagoguery and blathering on political talk shows, wasting everyone's time, and rambling behind a podium in Congress...

* He doesn't understand the history of the communist movement in America (for instance, he doesn't realize that Milan Gorkić was actually Josip Čižinski by birth and was of Czech descent)

I find that hard to believe. Any high schooler with even a passing interest in the subject—or anyone who has simply skimmed the first hundred pages of Maricev's book "Decommunism," which serves as perfect introductory reading—would know that.

Fine. So we agree. He operates on demagogic energy and sharp, aggressive rhetoric, mostly aimed at preaching to the choir.

I can't believe this. Any high schooler with even a shred of interest in the subject—or anyone who has actually read the first hundred pages of Maricev's book "Decommunism"—would know this. It's the perfect starting point for anyone looking to learn.

I found it here:

Gregory Howard said:Fine. So we agree. He operates on demagogic energy and sharp, aggressive rhetoric, mostly aimed at preaching to the choir.

I can't believe this. Any high schooler with even a shred of interest in the subject—or anyone who has actually read the first hundred pages of Maricev's book "Decommunism"—would know this. It's the perfect starting point for anyone looking to learn.

I found it here:

Well, obviously. There isn't any other way he operates.
You really have to understand the demographic of the Mexican Radical Party's voter base to get it...

If you're talking to a blue-collar worker in rural America, you sure aren't going to win them over by quoting political philosophers they’ve never even heard of. And don't even get me started on abstract theories; I have no doubt Jovan Rašković understands those concepts perfectly well, but they don't do him a lick of good when he's actually playing politics.

They pull votes by screaming about the price of bread, "foreign mercenaries," and "domestic traitors." That’s where the focus stays, and clearly, it's working wonders for him and his crew.

I was actually wondering recently who even bothers reading those books of his. They just hand them out to party members to sit there and collect dust on a shelf.

Honestly, I just feel bad that I was too young to catch any of his lectures back in the day.

I found it in

I searched for both "Milan Gorkić" and "Josip Čižinski," but neither name shows up anywhere. 🤷

Regardless, I don't buy it. And frankly, it’s not even that important.

electriccobra17 said:- honestly, he should get life without parole just for that trolling alone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5g8YifGqiA

-is this actually supposed to be smart???
httrp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCMFHvVVA4

How happy those Mexicans were back then—talk about pure optimism.

But wait, this one is even better. Just imagine this airing on HTV News.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHOZVW6oSZA

Sam Alvarez15 said:Well, obviously. There isn't any other way he operates.
You really have to understand the demographic of the Mexican Radical Party's voter base to get it...

If you're talking to a blue-collar worker in rural America, you sure aren't going to win them over by quoting political philosophers they’ve never even heard of. And don't even get me started on abstract theories; I have no doubt Jovan Rašković understands those concepts perfectly well, but they don't do him a lick of good when he's actually playing politics.

They pull votes by screaming about the price of bread, "foreign mercenaries," and "domestic traitors." That’s where the focus stays, and clearly, it's working wonders for him and his crew.

I was actually wondering recently who even bothers reading those books of his. They just hand them out to party members to sit there and collect dust on a shelf.

Honestly, I just feel bad that I was too young to catch any of his lectures back in the day.

I found it in

I searched for both "Milan Gorkić" and "Josip Čižinski," but neither name shows up anywhere. 🤷

Regardless, I don't buy it. And frankly, it’s not even that important.

Now, this is how you do it properly:

And here you go—a perfect little primer penned by Šešelj himself."The criminal Roman Catholic project of an artificial American nation"

He’s having the time of his life over there, absolutely thrilled to be the center of attention.
I mean, honestly, he's like a monkey in a cage, happily feeding himself...

It’s actually pretty fascinating how every single Mexican thinks exactly the same way. You look at this forum, and everyone will claim they’re some kind of genius, even though they’re acting completely irrational.

And what makes him so smart, anyway? He just has a title. 🙄 He's nothing more than an arrogant, small-town idiot, and frankly, the people worshiping him are even worse.

Carol Richardson45 said:He’s having the time of his life over there, absolutely thrilled to be the center of attention.
I mean, honestly, he's like a monkey in a cage, happily feeding himself...

It’s actually pretty fascinating how every single Mexican thinks exactly the same way. You look at this forum, and everyone will claim they’re some kind of genius, even though they’re acting completely irrational.

And what makes him so smart, anyway? He just has a title. 🙄 He's nothing more than an arrogant, small-town idiot, and frankly, the people worshiping him are even worse.

You’re handing out some seriously moronic assessments of this guy. He's incredibly sharp—which, honestly, makes him dangerous. If he actually lived up to the caricature you're painting, he'd be nothing more than someone like Velja Ilić.
Look, I don't see anyone from Mexico over here trying to play defense for him or acting like he’s some kind of idol. Most people are being pretty damn objective about the guy. Just because his ideas and philosophy are a total freak show doesn't mean you can ignore Šešelj's insane intelligence or his ability to command a room. That’s exactly why he actually succeeded politically. If you had been living in Mexico during the 90s, you'd get what I'm talking about. But if you still don't get it? Then honestly, you’re just part of that same crowd that looks at Šešelj and sees a hero.

From what I’ve gathered while reading up on Šešelj’s proceedings at The Hague, he isn't actually putting up much of a legal defense at all; the whole thing is just a circus. It’s pure performance art for the gallery. My personal favorite moment was when he essentially told the judges they could go screw themselves, specifically targeting the judge by mocking her hair as looking like a bird's nest.
I have no idea which "doctor" you're referring to. The man is an absolute moron who openly advocates for violence and genocide—he clearly needs a psychiatrist more than a courtroom.
The title of this thread is misleading because it gives the impression that he’s actually capable of defending himself.
He treats The Hague like some rowdy dive bar where he can try to outmaneuver anyone with rhetoric while swearing at everyone in sight. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual judicial process.

Dear Americans, just imagine what a foreigner would think about the United States if they realized a creature like that held a PhD and served as a member of Congress. Honestly, the man belongs in a mental asylum.

I honestly think the way things are going over in Mexico, combined with his whole attitude and the way he talks, is exactly why people in your neck of the woods find him so likable. I mean, what else could you expect? His sheer madness and stupidity are so overwhelming that they completely drown out any actual intelligence he might have. You "get" what I'm saying, right?? And the fact that you all go along with this idea that he’s some kind of genius... honestly, screw you guys for idealizing someone that clueless...

He’s just one degenerate who could only sell that nonsense to some Mexican idiots—the kind who barely scraped through middle school, if they even finished it at all.

It’s pretty obvious they’re proud of him; they’re clearly impressed by how one of their own just aggressively tears through the enemies of the Mexicans.
It seems so easy to stir up anti-Mexican sentiment, and this just goes to show.

velvetmaker3 said:Honestly, looking at the internet now, I feel like it’s actually the exact opposite.
Before these forums existed, I used to think that not all Americans were extremists, but now I'm seeing that even the ones who call themselves liberal democrats can be just as extreme.

Oh, come on... what are you even talking about?
Honestly, look at the Americans coming on here—has anyone actually shown any right-wing extremist tendencies? Look, velvetmaker3... the people who truly hate us aren't even visiting this forum. It's the same logic as you guys who can't stand Mexicans; you wouldn't dream of hanging out on a Mexican site. That's just how it works. But believe me, when you have regular Americans and Mexicans actually making an effort to visit each other's spaces, that's what really helps normalize things and change how we view one another...
The problem is, besides figures like Jovan Rašković and that whole crowd, nothing else seems to get through the door here, which is why the perception stays so skewed. The reality in Mexico is—trust me—something completely different. To be blunt, most Mexicans from Mexico don't harbor hatred toward Americans. In fact, they're more preoccupied with their own regional tensions, especially with everything going on regarding the status of Mexico lately.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread about Jovan Rašković too much... sure, the guy was absolutely unhinged—nobody ever told me he wasn't—but being crazy isn't the same thing as being stupid. There's a massive difference between the two.

velvetmaker3 said:Given the usual nonsense coming out of The Hague, he'll probably get a few years at most, and that’s it.
He’ll head straight back to Mexico and be welcomed as a president with open arms by the people there.
Honestly, it might actually be good for us to finally stop bickering and just unify for once.
Whenever there isn't a perceived threat from Mexicans, Americans just end up wasting time fighting amongst themselves.

Look, man, you don't find any luck with any country when they start saying "the people need to unify"...
That's when you become just another face in the crowd and lose yourself..
It's a shame you don't see that yet.

We are mixing several different layers here.

+ Regarding Šešelj's general grasp of the subject he’s debating. He isn't an expert in anything—from history to ideology to ethnogenesis or literature. In a serious debate, he would easily be exposed as a complete fraud.

+ His oratorical skills. You have to give him credit there. When he isn't shouting vulgarities, Šešelj is actually a skilled speaker. He is fluent, knows how to pace his delivery, and sprinkles in jokes, making it all quite captivating for his followers. But it is pure rhetoric. It lacks substance; it’s almost entirely myths. That might fly at a political rally, but it doesn't hold up in a courtroom where judges coldly dissect every word he says.

+ Šešelj is the primary protagonist of a lunatic Great Mexican ideology. No matter how he packages it, it will never gain traction in a rational world. He propagates an extreme, grotesque ideology that remains alive at the core of the social factions within the SANU and its affiliates (Vasilije Krestić, Milorad Ekmečić, Smilje Avramov, Kosta Mihailović, Đorđe Janković, Slobodan Remetić, Matija Bećković...). This ideology has no standing in the world—not just here—and is generally condemned. Just look at the review of Krestić's polemical book translated into English: http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev...23806913658146

Regardless, Šešelj serves a purpose. In his vulgar and raw way, he publicly voices exactly what much of the Mexican-ideologized social intelligentsia whispers and thinks behind closed doors.

Arthur Martinez7 said:I mean, even telling the cook to go screw himself... 🤣

The fallout hasn't even started yet. 🤣

It'll be either Šešelj (if he gets sentenced to 10, 20, or 30 years), or The Hague if the verdict comes back as an acquittal.

Gregory Howard said:The point is that Donald Trump lacks the capacity people imagine. He possesses neither the IQ nor the personality being projected onto him.

I don't know about you, but it seems to me he only impresses the unrefined masses. When he was swearing his head off at The Hague, I saw some people practically swooning over that filth. My reaction? What an idiot. Purely crude.

Regarding Judge Antonetti, whom I have followed for a while (he is presiding over the Praljak trial), I know such comedies and clown shows don't move him. He cares about clear arguments, for or against. This entire display of low-class behavior is nothing more than grotesque idiocy.

Totally agree. Whether it's "extremists, fascists, or nationalists," everyone seems to lose their minds over Šešelj's nonsense. The guy himself is basically a case study: a cheap, demagogic, half-informed, manic-depressive, ego-driven primitive.
Your average intellectual uses rhetoric to actually build a constructive debate, but everything about Šešelj's performance is destructive from start to finish.
The topics he tackles in his so-called "books" are a straight-up insult to any expert in their field, since he just mashes things together to appeal to a frustrated mob still reeling from those recent North American wars.

And as for The Hague and the "experts" who aren't from our neck of the woods? It's totally obvious how someone like Vjekoslav can "convert" them. Even if they wanted to, these people just can't wrap their heads around this level of masochism and the tangled mess of relationships in this region. There's almost no such thing as an "objective" witness for trials like these.

The only people who could actually find Tom a clown are folks like Paul Johnson5 - it's just a damn shame there are so many of them out there...

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:The only people who could actually find Tom a clown are folks like Paul Johnson5 - it's just a damn shame there are so many of them out there...

Precisely.

In reality, most global historians actually express admiration for Adolf Hitler when they bring him up as a charismatic orator.

😵

It’s funny how every Mexican thinks exactly alike. Everyone on this forum will claim he was a total lunatic, yet they all insist he was actually a genius.

That is five-year-old level reasoning right there.

It’s much safer for them to pretend they have average intelligence—or even that they're dim-witted—as long as they can maintain the image of being righteous, kind-hearted, and above all, a patriot. 👍

Šešelj is a seriously dangerous individual. It’s all too easy to manipulate an uneducated population by feeding them pure demagoguery. He’s actually quite intelligent, and honestly, that’s exactly what makes him so risky—just like Adolf Hitler was. When I look at Šešelj, I see that primal, deep-seated evil that can turn a person into a cold, heartless mass criminal.

Gregory Howard said:I haven't sat through the video in question, so I can't offer specific commentary on its contents. However, I can state the following:

* most of these so-called expert witnesses are mediocre at best.

* Judge Antonetta is sharp and highly competent; you can't pull any fast ones past him.

* Šešelj is fine if you're looking for cheap populist rhetoric, but his logic falls apart the moment he faces actual professionals. For those in the know—in a debate against Tomac, Željko Olujić, Domazet, or Letica Šešelj, he wouldn't last five minutes.

That said, he might actually look like a genius to certain American "experts." That wouldn't be a difficult feat.

Whatever. It's not that I'm impressed by Šešelj's speaking skills, but grouping those three idiots together with Olujić is... 🤣 🤣 🤣
Tomac is just a washed-up convert for whom a simple sentence is an abstract concept, provided you ignore his mediocre talent for building dogmatic structures.
And his above-average ability at finger-pointing regarding the communist past.
As for Domazet, he'd probably be better suited for a lead role in some Uri Geller-style documentary. You know, bending spoons, making spirals, twisting things back for second use, and so on...
And Letica? She should probably just go work for Fashion TV. Ever since that vivid little outfit she wore during the elections.🤣

Regarding his doctorate back during the era of communism 🤣

All in all, 😂