Can psychology actually help fix relationship issues?

Chloe Barnes8 said:A little too much Modern literature, dear Sandra Parker3, just a bit too much...😍

Fine

Chloe Barnes8 said:I mean!

I honestly don't know if it'll be misused, but when you consider that so many mental health struggles involve such massive amounts of suffering, why wouldn't this be a good thing?

And besides... this whole obsession with psychology and its supposed "all-knowingness" has turned into such cheap, watered-down pop psychology lately... like, the whole "you can control everything, you can change anything, the power is within you" vibe (as if! 😁 )...

Anyway, you can see from my earlier posts that I haven't exactly been a cheerleader for that mindset, where people think they can just think their way through every single problem... ha! 😍

But, I guess you still can do a lot! 🙂

I actually disagree; if anything, I mostly enjoy your insights. Don't let my aggressive tone fool you into thinking I'm actually a hostile person. I'm more like a dog that barks a lot but never actually bites.😍

Chloe Barnes8 said:Psychology can be exact enough that if we truly understand someone's early childhood conditions and their social interactions, we could probably predict with decent certainty what kind of personality structure issues they'll develop later on...

And then, well, how to treat them too...

Also, that whole idea of using percentages to map out a profile is just way too naive... that's not how any of this works.

There are all sorts of combinations of personality disorders, you know? Like, one might be the primary issue while others are just secondary symptoms, and so on...

Man, I really love it when people talk down about things they don't actually understand...

And then they go ahead and try to tell us how to fix science, too... 😍

Look, that was sarcasm. It’s mostly triggered by the fact that whenever I read these descriptions of "personality disorders," I can't think of a single person I know who doesn't check multiple boxes from several different categories at once. Honestly, I see myself in at least five or six of them, ranging from mild to intense.

And so what if you're annoyed that I’m pushing back against the whole concept of a personality "disorder"? Whose personality is so perfectly curated that they feel qualified to judge what counts as "normal" versus "disordered"? What does it even mean to have a "healthy personality"? Doesn't that step right into ethical territory—questions of morality, spirituality, and value systems—all things where there isn't even a global consensus today? So, through what ethical lens is psychology making these judgments? I bet an American Christian would view someone's "mental health" completely differently than a follower of Ayn Rand, wouldn't they? Don't you agree?

lonegardener said:Look, that was sarcasm. It’s mostly triggered by the fact that whenever I read these descriptions of "personality disorders," I can't think of a single person I know who doesn't check multiple boxes from several different categories at once. Honestly, I see myself in at least five or six of them, ranging from mild to intense.

And so what if you're annoyed that I’m pushing back against the whole concept of a personality "disorder"? Whose personality is so perfectly curated that they feel qualified to judge what counts as "normal" versus "disordered"? What does it even mean to have a "healthy personality"? Doesn't that step right into ethical territory—questions of morality, spirituality, and value systems—all things where there isn't even a global consensus today? So, through what ethical lens is psychology making these judgments? I bet an American Christian would view someone's "mental health" completely differently than a follower of Ayn Rand, wouldn't they? Don't you agree?

you don't really get me (and I don't know this Ayn Rand guy either)...

personality disorders definitely exist... and sure, we can all find bits and pieces of ourselves in any of them... the more varied the mix, the better...😍

It’s just nasty when one or two traits describe us perfectly, and suddenly we're stuck in some psychiatric category...😉

I don't mind people challenging or questioning views—in EVERYTHING, really—but let's do it with arguments, ladies and gentlemen, with actual arguments...🙏

lonegardener said:I actually disagree; if anything, I mostly enjoy your insights. Don't let my aggressive tone fool you into thinking I'm actually a hostile person. I'm more like a dog that barks a lot but never actually bites.😍

Honestly, none of that really gets to me....😁

Whether you like how I think or if I sound a bit intense...

whatever...

as long as we're being constructive, it's all good....🙂

Chloe Barnes8 said:you don't really get me (and I don't know this Ayn Rand guy either)...

personality disorders definitely exist... and sure, we can all find bits and pieces of ourselves in any of them... the more varied the mix, the better...😍

It’s just nasty when one or two traits describe us perfectly, and suddenly we're stuck in some psychiatric category...😉

I don't mind people challenging or questioning views—in EVERYTHING, really—but let's do it with arguments, ladies and gentlemen, with actual arguments...🙏

Fair enough. So, what is the actual starting point for someone (regardless of whether they are a psychiatrist or not) to decide that a specific behavior is a reflection of a "personality disorder"?

To claim a personality is "disordered," we first need a concept of what a "healthy" personality looks like. But who, or what, defines the standard for mental health, and on what exact foundation is that standard built?

So far, these aren't really "arguments"—they are just questions. Let's see what everyone's actual premises are.

Edit: regarding Ayn Rand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_rand

Sandra Parker3 said:Look what I stumbled upon. It's an ONT—not like I had any say in the matter, just putting it out there... 😲...

Granted, it is ONT, but there is an undeniable, brilliant absurdity to its own distinct culture. It occurs to me that I might actually find myself starting to grasp this particular genre of music.
The thing is, one shouldn't even approach it as something attempting to be profoundly meaningful in the first place.

So, we’ve got the World Health Organization's standard on what mental health actually looks like...

Then there are all those descriptions of "healthy personalities" floating around in psychology textbooks, which basically serve as the foundation for defining disorders in the first place. It’s such a massive, sweeping topic, honestly... and a really fair question to ask...

Sigmund Freud once offered this pretty simple, yet surprisingly effective definition: A healthy person is someone who is capable of working and loving....

But, I mean, you could argue that’s still way too broad... because, well... how does one "work" or "love," exactly? It's kind of vague, isn't it?

Still, the criteria for personality disorders are laid out pretty clearly—like in the DSM classifications, for instance. The main rule of thumb there is that a specific disorder has to significantly mess with someone's social or professional life, and it has to be a persistent thing over time...

also....☕

Chloe Barnes8 said:So, moving on... neuroses or those issues stemming from personality disorders are actually pretty well understood nowadays. There are real treatments out there too. It’s totally possible to find full recovery, and honestly, a lot of the time, psychotherapy alone does the heavy lifting...

I mean, we could all sit here playing amateur psychologist or leaning on that "intuitive psychology" everyone thinks they have, but let's be real—only a trained professional truly understands the actual mechanisms behind an illness, the structure of a disorder, its etiology, and all that technical stuff. If you end up in the hands of a solid professional and you're actually motivated to fix what's going on with you, you can achieve so much...🙂

I find myself wondering what one even means by a "personality disorder." In my view, a personality cannot be disordered; it simply is. What you characterize as "treatment" strikes me more as an attempt to reshape a person—to force them into some pre-approved mold of what society deems "normal."
And if I may be so bold, that supposed normality is anything but. 🤷

Oh, right! Now I remember... Ayn Rand from that movie starring Helen Mirren... she was such a fierce woman...😍

And I think I'm getting her mixed up with Erich Stolz too... hmm...😁

Christian Wells6 said:I find myself wondering what one even means by a "personality disorder." In my view, a personality cannot be disordered; it simply is. What you characterize as "treatment" strikes me more as an attempt to reshape a person—to force them into some pre-approved mold of what society deems "normal."
And if I may be so bold, that supposed normality is anything but. 🤷

Oh, absolutely not...🤣

So, I guess people obsessively counting their steps, resetting their watches every single hour, having hallucinations, or even pointing guns at people because they "just felt like it"... those aren't personality disorders either, right? That's just everyone expressing their unique individuality, isn't it?😁 😁

Christian Wells6 said:Granted, it is ONT, but there is an undeniable, brilliant absurdity to its own distinct culture. It occurs to me that I might actually find myself starting to grasp this particular genre of music.
The thing is, one shouldn't even approach it as something attempting to be profoundly meaningful in the first place.

It is a shame the original music video isn't on YouTube, because it is fantastic. 👍 😁 This is just a clip from that movie, 'Two O'Clock of Quality New Year's Programming.' In the film, you get into the club without a ticket if you can sing the best country song. Then, Gaga takes the stage. 😁 If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. It is quite fun. 🙂 (Assuming you enjoy that style of humor, of course.)

Chloe Barnes8 said:Oh, absolutely not...🤣

So, I guess people obsessively counting their steps, resetting their watches every single hour, having hallucinations, or even pointing guns at people because they "just felt like it"... those aren't personality disorders either, right? That's just everyone expressing their unique individuality, isn't it?😁 😁

And so what? It’s just another set of rules and benchmarks established by the majority. That doesn't make it normal.
The proof!
I suspect that since I have read upwards of 10,000 books, I am somehow forbidden from taking a glance at The New York Post; otherwise, I might find myself reading every single word from the first page to the last, including the street address, the social security numbers, and every tedious detail regarding the publisher and the editor.

According to our current social norms, I am simply deemed "too well-read." 🤷

You might think I actually sit there reading the fine print on food labels, or that I recently insisted on finding out exactly when the rubber was manufactured on my car tires because I read somewhere that the date is tucked away inside the tread—an inquiry prompted entirely by something I had previously read...
And when I head off on vacation, I pack a suitcase filled with nothing but the mountain of books I accumulated specifically for the occasion.

Ultimately, what is the true distinction between me and those people who compulsively count their steps or stare at their watches all day? It is merely a matter of contemporary social acceptability.

I mean, if we just start relativizing absolutely everything, then what's even the point? We might as well just throw in the towel...😍

Anyway, you look at the Antipsychiatry movement—they were pushing that exact same kind of logic. The whole "there's no such thing as a sick individual, only a sick society" vibe, blah blah blah...

That movement ended up being pretty notorious and fell apart fast because, well, people with mental health struggles were literally left wandering lost on the streets...

But, oh well, enough of that for tonight...

No hard feelings if I came on a little too strong... goodnight!🙂

mistybison said:It is a shame the original music video isn't on YouTube, because it is fantastic. 👍 😁 This is just a clip from that movie, 'Two O'Clock of Quality New Year's Programming.' In the film, you get into the club without a ticket if you can sing the best country song. Then, Gaga takes the stage. 😁 If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. It is quite fun. 🙂 (Assuming you enjoy that style of humor, of course.)

I find myself believing it is actually quite brilliant. There is this peculiar phenomenon where a culture begins to emerge solely to mock its own predecessor.
It represents a fascinatingly massive shift for any nation, regardless of which one you might be referring to.

I suppose I shall head over to Canada once Ceca starts performing there. (Though I have already witnessed Himzo—half, a quarter, an eighth... he’s basically already been seen). Nowadays, the prevailing theory seems to be that these concerts are attended exclusively by Canadians.
What strikes me as most unsettling is that there aren't even that many Canadians living in Canada itself. It is actually the Canadians who show up. I have gone to the trouble of observing the situation closely, and that is my takeaway.

Chloe Barnes8 said:I mean, if we just start relativizing absolutely everything, then what's even the point? We might as well just throw in the towel...😍

Anyway, you look at the Antipsychiatry movement—they were pushing that exact same kind of logic. The whole "there's no such thing as a sick individual, only a sick society" vibe, blah blah blah...

That movement ended up being pretty notorious and fell apart fast because, well, people with mental health struggles were literally left wandering lost on the streets...

But, oh well, enough of that for tonight...

No hard feelings if I came on a little too strong... goodnight!🙂

Everything mentioned is perfectly valid. And therein lies the trouble. It is our own problem, not theirs. That is the crux of it.
The issue I find so troubling is the sight of psychiatric patients simply wandering the streets. They are just drifting through life without direction.

Christian Wells6 said:I find myself believing it is actually quite brilliant. There is this peculiar phenomenon where a culture begins to emerge solely to mock its own predecessor.
It represents a fascinatingly massive shift for any nation, regardless of which one you might be referring to.

I suppose I shall head over to Canada once Ceca starts performing there. (Though I have already witnessed Himzo—half, a quarter, an eighth... he’s basically already been seen). Nowadays, the prevailing theory seems to be that these concerts are attended exclusively by Canadians.
What strikes me as most unsettling is that there aren't even that many Canadians living in Canada itself. It is actually the Canadians who show up. I have gone to the trouble of observing the situation closely, and that is my takeaway.

Since you can't change reality, you either laugh, cry, or get angry. I prefer the first option. 😉

Quincy:

I’m heading to Austria when Madonna performs. (I've already seen half, a quarter, maybe even an eighth of Jim's shows—if he's even still touring). Now the prevailing theory is that these concerts are strictly for the Canadian crowd. What strikes me most is that there aren't even that many Canadians living in Canada. It's actually the Austrians who show up. I’ve put in the effort to track the trends myself.

A significant number of people in this region enjoy that kind of music and those kinds of spectacles. 😁 There isn't much that can be done about it. 🤷

Chloe Barnes8 said:So, we’ve got the World Health Organization's standard on what mental health actually looks like...

Then there are all those descriptions of "healthy personalities" floating around in psychology textbooks, which basically serve as the foundation for defining disorders in the first place. It’s such a massive, sweeping topic, honestly... and a really fair question to ask...

Sigmund Freud once offered this pretty simple, yet surprisingly effective definition: A healthy person is someone who is capable of working and loving....

But, I mean, you could argue that’s still way too broad... because, well... how does one "work" or "love," exactly? It's kind of vague, isn't it?

Still, the criteria for personality disorders are laid out pretty clearly—like in the DSM classifications, for instance. The main rule of thumb there is that a specific disorder has to significantly mess with someone's social or professional life, and it has to be a persistent thing over time...

also....☕

Does that really satisfy you? 😲 😲

Maybe I’m just having some kind of communication breakdown here, because I can’t for the life of me bridge the gap between what we call the soul and what we call the psyche. 😛
The way I see it, a soul can’t actually get "sick" since it’s non-material and carries this divine origin... whereas the psyche is tied directly to the mind, which is inherently linked to the physical world and therefore subject to all sorts of deviations.
So, in my view, psychology—and psychiatry, for that matter—only really deals with the material, relative side of being human, but the real headache is that this physical aspect is constantly being influenced by the non-material, spiritual side, an existence that so many people simply refuse to acknowledge or accept. Because of that, it feels to me like psychology might be okay at describing the dynamics of men and women, but it lacks the tools to actually provide real, effective healing...

lonegardener said:Does that really satisfy you? 😲 😲

yeah... well, unless you decide to give me something better...😁