Are vegetarians actually smarter?

crimsonhound80 Active Member

175 messages
joined Mar 2008

#61 · Jan 6, 2007

Look, you’re a sane individual, and because of that, I actually respect your take. 👍

Honestly, it just drives me absolutely crazy—the sheer amount of extremism out there—where people try to force vegetarianism down everyone's throat like it’s some kind of divine, enlightened, superior way to live... blah, blah, blah 👎

restlesscobra132 Member

27 messages
joined Oct 2006

#62 · Jan 6, 2007

Rachel Martinez11 said:I have to admit, I went through the exact same thing when I first tried cutting meat out of my diet (about 6 or 7 years ago). Even if I was totally full, just catching a whiff of a roast would trigger this massive craving for meat. I’d even deal with these bouts of physical weakness. On my second attempt, I added two staples back in: seitan and mushroom and corn pizza. Sure, there are endless veggie recipes out there, but those are my personal go-tos, and they completely killed my meat cravings and that shaky feeling. I'm about 205 lbs at 5'10" (not overweight by any means). I don't feel any smarter or dumber since ditching meat, but I definitely enjoy my food more and generally feel better overall.

Yeah, I tried that too. To be honest, it still weighs on me whenever I eat meat because I can't stop thinking about the creature I'm consuming...🙄
But look... you know, in principle, I'm not against carnivory, but the whole system and way we eat just doesn't sit right with me. Like... it would be okay if we were actually hunting an animal, but not in a way where we just slaughter them and devour them. Maybe in a more subtle way... establishing a relationship where the animal essentially surrenders to the hunter? Hmm, I don't know if you get what I mean—honestly, I'm not even sure I know what I'm trying to say myself (even beer isn't exactly a "food product" in the way I used to think it was...😬).
It really would be amazing if animals weren't raised just to be killed. Actually, it would be great if they weren't raised at all. I have a cat and a dog, and every single day when I feed them, I think about how much they're being deprived compared to how their species lives out in the wild. Being pets just isn't natural for animals, not one bit. 😠

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#63 · Jan 6, 2007

restlesscobra132 said:Yeah, it would be great if animals weren't raised just to be slaughtered. Actually, it would be great if we didn't raise them at all.

I hear you. That’s the exact knot I can’t seem to untie myself. Personally, I’m convinced a total shift is actually doable. The problem—as it is with almost any massive societal pivot—is that you need massive capital investment and actual political willpower to shift the needle of public opinion. But just think about the sheer potential if the billions currently being funneled into Big Ag were redirected toward plant-based R&D and lab-grown alternatives. Right now, the meat industry is heavily propped up by federal subsidies and a deep-seated political establishment that, make no mistake, will fight tooth and nail to prevent anyone from replacing them.

Dennis Nguyen78 Newcomer

7 messages
joined Jan 2007

#64 · Jan 6, 2007

restlesscobra132 said:It would be fine if we were hunting an animal, but not in a way where we just kill it and devour it. I mean, something more subtle... establishing a relationship where the animal actually surrenders itself to the hunter... hmm, I don't know if you get what I'm saying, and honestly, I'm not even sure myself what I'm trying to express. QUOTE]

I think I follow your logic...
Personally, I might even reconsider going back to a meat-based diet if there was a legitimate alternative to the standard industrial factory farms and massive slaughterhouses we have now...
For instance, I really respect how Kosher dietary laws work—they prioritize such extreme purity, and when it comes to animal products, the goal is to ensure the process is as painless as possible for the creature. I also find the way Native Americans approach life quite moving; they have this deep reverence for nature and everything within it. If they have to take a life to survive, they do it with dignity, offering thanks to the animal for sustaining them. So, here's my take: the idea of one living being consuming another isn't something I can wrap my head around, but the reality of breeding it, feeding it, watching it grow, and then slaughtering it just for a single meal? That feels absolutely barbaric to me...

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#65 · Jan 6, 2007

Dennis Nguyen78 said:for instance, I really appreciate how Kosher Jewish food is prepared—it's incredibly pure, and when it comes to animal products, they ensure the animals are slaughtered as painlessly as humanly possible...

Wouldn't you be better off just grabbing a mushroom and corn pizza instead of eating an animal, regardless of how "humane" the slaughter was? Or maybe just sticking to some pasta with tomato sauce, parmesan, and olives.

restlessmarlin6 Active Member

219 messages
joined Oct 2003

#66 · Jan 6, 2007

I’m telling you, bodybuilders literally lose their minds right before they step on stage because they switch to a strictly protein-only diet.
Your brain actually needs glucose to function properly, but these guys just refuse to take any in.

And I’m not just guessing here—a close friend of mine who does competitive fitness told me herself. She’s skipping her next competition in October because she has to focus on her finals at NYU. 😁She says if she cuts out grains and carbs while trying to pass exams, everything just goes straight to hell.

So, honestly, there might actually be some truth to that whole idea about vegetarian intelligence. 😁

Anyway, coming at you from the meat-eater side of things—please don't come for me. 😁

crimsonhound80 Active Member

175 messages
joined Mar 2008

#67 · Jan 6, 2007

Rachel Martinez11

Honestly, I’d probably devour Milton’s meal in one sitting—but then again, I’d happily polish off yours too, because your cooking looks pretty incredible. 😬 😬

Hmm... I don't know. I have an aquarium at home and I'm really into my little fish, so the idea of killing them just to eat them? Yeah, that's a hard pass for me.

I mean, how does anyone even go about fishing, killing a fish, and then actually eating it? 😎

Dennis Nguyen78 Newcomer

7 messages
joined Jan 2007

#68 · Jan 6, 2007

Rachel Martinez11 said:Wouldn't you rather just enjoy a mushroom and corn pizza instead of eating an animal that was slaughtered, regardless of how "humane" they claim the process is? Or maybe just some pasta with tomato sauce, parmesan, and olives.

What are you even talking about? I eat those kinds of pizzas all the time... I haven't touched meat in ten years.
As for whether I "prefer" one over the other—honestly, I haven't given it a second thought.
I have much bigger problems on my plate lately, but I'll leave that for a discussion about nature or move it to a private message...

And I should add that I completely disagree with the claim in the headline... I really don't feel particularly intelligent or superior in any way, shape, or form.

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#69 · Jan 6, 2007

crimsonhound80 said:Personally, I’d happily eat Milton's meal, but at the same time, I'd probably grab yours too since it looks just as good. 😬 😬

Sure, but you—just like everyone else—are more or less a product of the society you inhabit. Society exerts both direct and indirect pressure on how an individual thinks. The culture we live in, through the media and sheer cognitive inertia, convinces us that there's nothing wrong with slaughtering animals just to put them on a plate. I am convinced that if I had lived in a society where, say, farming certain ethnic groups was considered socially acceptable and even desirable, I would have spent a good portion of my life as a cannibal (much like I used to be a carnivore).

crimsonhound80 Active Member

175 messages
joined Mar 2008

#70 · Jan 6, 2007

Look, I get what you're saying, but your post keeps pushing this idea—this weird notion—that just by refusing to eat meat, someone somehow evolves into a better version of themselves.

So, the logic is: you eat meat, you stay stagnant, but skip the meat and suddenly you've evolved into some superior human being? You know, I really can't stand that part of the narrative—this whole comparison where you jump from cannibalism and carnivory to vegetarianism, then veganism, macrobiotics, and finally, the absolute absurdity of "living off sunlight" being some kind of ultimate ZEN state.

That’s exactly my point! It always circles back to the same condescending trope—the idea that people who don't eat meat are inherently more intellectually advanced, or more socially conscious, or just more "in tune" with nature and the environment than everyone else.

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#71 · Jan 6, 2007

crimsonhound80 said:I get that, but your post keeps pushing this idea that simply by cutting out meat, someone somehow evolves into a better, more advanced version of themselves.
That’s my point right there. It always seems to boil down to this assumption that people who don't eat meat are somehow intellectually superior, more "awake" to society, or more in tune with nature than everyone else.

It feels like we're talking past each other. I was just trying to point out how much our environment and social circles shape our thoughts and perspectives. And let's be honest, those influences aren't always the healthiest—take smoking, for example. I don't smoke, but that doesn't mean I've reached some higher stage of evolution, nor does it make me a better person than a smoker, a Canadian, or someone who loves a steak. For what it's worth, I happen to prefer women over men, but that isn't an attempt to impose my lifestyle on anyone, nor should a gay man feel insulted or pressured by my views; he could easily be a hundred times better human being than I am.

Carol Parker Member

34 messages
joined Jan 2007

#72 · Jan 6, 2007

crimsonhound80 said:Do vegetarians live longer than meat eaters? NO.
Are they happier than meat eaters? NO.
Is their sex life better than meat eaters'? NO.
Do they have more money than meat eaters? NO.
Do they have "better" social status than meat eaters? NO.
Do they love animals more than meat eaters? NO.
Are they better athletes than meat eaters? NO.
Are they "greater" artists than meat eaters? NO.

At the end of the day, humans are carnivores.🙂

restlesscobra132 Member

27 messages
joined Oct 2006

#73 · Jan 7, 2007

Dennis Nguyen78 said:I really admire how Native Americans approach nature and everything we find within it... if they have to hunt an animal, they do it with genuine respect, offering thanks for providing them with sustenance... I mean, the idea that one living thing eats another isn't foreign to me, but man, raising it, feeding it, watching it grow just to slaughter it for a single meal? That feels brutal to me...

That’s exactly what I was thinking. 👍
I love meat, and honestly, I think it would be wonderful if I could hunt the animal myself in a way that shows true respect for its life, rather than... well, you know... I eat beef and all I can picture are cows cramped up in a pen where they can't even turn around. It's just awful; it doesn't feel right. They're all living beings. 🙂
For example, whenever I go out to my garden or orchard, before I pick an apple or snip a head of lettuce, I touch the produce first. After holding it in my hand for a few seconds, I pick it—just as a sign of respect for its existence. I don't know... I just feel like we need to establish a real connection with our food. 👍

briskcrane642 Newcomer

2 messages
joined Jan 2007

#74 · Jan 7, 2007

Vegetarians tend to have shorter lifespans than the rest of us—it’s just a fact. Nature doesn't suddenly decide meat is bad for you; any claims to the contrary are nothing more than blatant deception. At the end of the day, vegetarianism is little more than a passing fad.

restlesscobra132 Member

27 messages
joined Oct 2006

#75 · Jan 7, 2007

Rachel Martinez11 said:It was probably just a misunderstanding. All I meant was that society plays a massive role in shaping how any individual thinks and feels. And those influences aren't always the healthiest—take smoking, for example. I don't smoke, but that doesn't mean I've somehow evolved or that I'm morally superior to a smoker, or a Canadian, or even someone who eats meat. Personally, I prefer women over men, but that’s no reason for a gay man to feel insulted or like I'm forcing my views on him; he could easily be a hundred times better than I am.

Rachel Martinez11, reading this feels like I wrote it myself 🙂
it's honestly a bit frustrating feeling like I belong to a society that I find myself mocking on a daily basis. Sometimes, it feels like I'm mocking myself...😎 what gets to me is how much people fear thinking for THEMSELVES 😠 and how terrified they are that their own unique perspective will get them labeled as an outcast. They're scared of being isolated, left to fend for themselves, where every conversation about someone just being authentic turns into, "Oh, you know how they are, they're just weird," or "Just let them be, they'll grow out of it eventually." Sometimes, the society I'm part of feels like a herd being raised just to feed itself. It almost feels like society has a tendency toward cannibalism...😠 sometimes...

Terry Rodriguez41 Active Member

65 messages
joined Jan 2007

#76 · Jan 7, 2007

I mean, just scrolling through the comments on this thread, I’m starting to get the impression that vegetarians might actually be the sharper ones here... there seems to be way less nonsense and mindless rambling coming from their posts compared to the people aggressively defending their "healthy" cuts of meat...

And yeah, for the record, I eat meat myself...🙂

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#77 · Jan 7, 2007

briskcrane642 said:Vegetarians don't live as long as everyone else. Nature doesn't just swap out meat for something else; people are just lying to you about how it works. Vegetarianism is nothing more than a passing fad.

I used to be convinced of the exact opposite, but facing the sheer abundance and undeniable weight of your logic, I've been left speechless. I surrender. Just give me two words to settle it. No vegetarian could ever hope to fight against evidence this overwhelming.

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#78 · Jan 7, 2007

restlesscobra132 said:Sometimes I feel like the society I belong to is just a herd being raised by someone who intends to feed on them.

I’d be lying if I claimed I wasn't a product of this system myself. It’s shaped me just as much as anyone else who was forced into its orbit by mere circumstance. From the moment we're born, people start washing our brains with all sorts of doctrines—nonsense that defies logic and flies in the face of common sense. But these programs take deep root because they're implanted so early on. Then, every single day, we're surrounded by other indoctrinated souls and a media machine that focuses almost exclusively on trivial, mindless distractions—stuff like >—serving up absolute garbage as if it were the gold standard for living. People really are sheep, though I don't blame them for it. Most are easily manipulated, while a vocal minority dictates what everyone else should think. The end result? Blood up to your knees. And I'm not just talking about humans; animals suffer just as much.

darkrider96 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jan 2007

#79 · Jan 8, 2007

At my place, everyone who ever touched meat signed up for college... except for this one veggie kid, haha
I’m completely over that theory 🤣 🤣

Rachel Martinez11 Active Member

77 messages
joined Mar 2009

#80 · Jan 8, 2007

darkrider96 said:In my circle, everyone who grew up eating meat ended up enrolling in college—except for this one vegetarian kid, haha.

Only one? Honestly, maybe he’s just the exception that proves the rule. Or maybe he wasn't always plant-based. For all we know, he grew up on steak just like I did, which might explain why he and I share the same level of intellect. After all, the original post was specifically about the children of vegetarians—those kids who were raised without any meat on their plates at all.

Are vegetarians actually smarter?

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