The Great Zagor Temple of Compassion, Nonviolence, and Love.

Today's Zen story:
A wealthy businessman spent his evening lying in bed, obsessively plotting all the clever business moves he could make tomorrow to grow his fortune. He was so preoccupied with expanding his wealth that he actually passed away in his sleep that very night.

placidharbor7 said:Look, we're talking about a bit of storytelling here—it's fine for the main character to have been enlightened already.

Just leave that specific detail out, and there’s no problem at all—though, of course, finding the actual point of the story might get a little tricky.

And honestly, what kind of irrelevant question is this—"If he was already enlightened, why did he ride a horse and break his legs?"

That's really not how a "Master Candidate" of the V.S.P.Z.S. should be acting, is it?

Because enlightenment is essentially a wild stallion. If you think you can actually mount it, you’re going to end up breaking some legs. If you decide you don't need it and try to push it away, you're basically insulting the Emperor—since you can't exactly turn your back on the Emperor. And if you imagine you have a horse when you really don't... well... 🤷

That's why Buddha was a horse without a rider.

Or rather... WHO is this person supposedly riding the horse? 😛 😬

driftingraven122 said:Because enlightenment is essentially a wild stallion. If you think you can actually mount it, you’re going to end up breaking some legs. If you decide you don't need it and try to push it away, you're basically insulting the Emperor—since you can't exactly turn your back on the Emperor. And if you imagine you have a horse when you really don't... well... 🤷

That's why Buddha was a horse without a rider.

Or rather... WHO is this person supposedly riding the horse? 😛 😬

Brother Grim doesn't have anything to look for in Zen, driftingraven122.
Complex little stories like that belong to the realm of organized religion.

What this person is trying to tell you is that true enlightenment means letting go of all those worldly highs.

Just be careful; when the Emperor grants a gift—kind of like receiving an Oscar - Award.
The guy starts glowing—ENLIGHTENED or UNENLIGHTENED—feeling pampered and honored. His heart swells up like a hippo's, screaming with pure ecstasy—which is really just IDENTIFICATION.

And that is exactly why he hits the wall SO HARD. He has to finally realize how messy all this IDENTIFICATION really is.

placidharbor7 said:Brother Grim doesn't have anything to look for in Zen, driftingraven122.
Complex little stories like that belong to the realm of organized religion.

What this person is trying to tell you is that true enlightenment means letting go of all those worldly highs.

Just be careful; when the Emperor grants a gift—kind of like receiving an Oscar - Award.
The guy starts glowing—ENLIGHTENED or UNENLIGHTENED—feeling pampered and honored. His heart swells up like a hippo's, screaming with pure ecstasy—which is really just IDENTIFICATION.

And that is exactly why he hits the wall SO HARD. He has to finally realize how messy all this IDENTIFICATION really is.

Well—I guess the best way to deal with those worldly highs is to just dig into this supposed "SELF" and realize there isn't actually anything there? You know—no rider behind the reins.

Just look at Richard Walker79—he immediately thinks, I AM GOD. 🙄

placidharbor7 said:Brother Grim doesn't have anything to look for in Zen, driftingraven122.
Complex little stories like that belong to the realm of organized religion.

What this person is trying to tell you is that true enlightenment means letting go of all those worldly highs.

Just be careful; when the Emperor grants a gift—kind of like receiving an Oscar - Award.
The guy starts glowing—ENLIGHTENED or UNENLIGHTENED—feeling pampered and honored. His heart swells up like a hippo's, screaming with pure ecstasy—which is really just IDENTIFICATION.

And that is exactly why he hits the wall SO HARD. He has to finally realize how messy all this IDENTIFICATION really is.

The Emperor has already run through all the maneuvers that lead to enlightenment.

placidharbor7 said:Brother Grim doesn't have anything to look for in Zen, driftingraven122.
Complex little stories like that belong to the realm of organized religion.

What this person is trying to tell you is that true enlightenment means letting go of all those worldly highs.

Just be careful; when the Emperor grants a gift—kind of like receiving an Oscar - Award.
The guy starts glowing—ENLIGHTENED or UNENLIGHTENED—feeling pampered and honored. His heart swells up like a hippo's, screaming with pure ecstasy—which is really just IDENTIFICATION.

And that is exactly why he hits the wall SO HARD. He has to finally realize how messy all this IDENTIFICATION really is.

He became enlightenment itself, so there's no room for identification.

driftingraven122 said:Well—I guess the best way to deal with those worldly highs is to just dig into this supposed "SELF" and realize there isn't actually anything there? You know—no rider behind the reins.

Just look at Richard Walker79—he immediately thinks, I AM GOD. 🙄

The Emperor has already run through all the maneuvers that lead to enlightenment.

He became enlightenment itself, so there's no room for identification.

That isn't really Dušan's fault; it's just the natural byproduct of realizing Unity.

driftingraven122 said:Well—I guess the best way to deal with those worldly highs is to just dig into this supposed "SELF" and realize there isn't actually anything there? You know—no rider behind the reins.

Just look at Richard Walker79—he immediately thinks, I AM GOD. 🙄

The Emperor has already run through all the maneuvers that lead to enlightenment.

He became enlightenment itself, so there's no room for identification.

This conversation is getting incredibly tangled—it's definitely not Zen.

driftingraven122 said:Well—I guess the best way to deal with those worldly highs is to just dig into this supposed "SELF" and realize there isn't actually anything there? You know—no rider behind the reins.

Just look at Richard Walker79—he immediately thinks, I AM GOD. 🙄

The Emperor has already run through all the maneuvers that lead to enlightenment.

He became enlightenment itself, so there's no room for identification.

But if there isn't even enlightenment, then what exactly is left?

Richard Walker79 said:Today's Zen story:
A wealthy businessman spent his evening lying in bed, obsessively plotting all the clever business moves he could make tomorrow to grow his fortune. He was so preoccupied with expanding his wealth that he actually passed away in his sleep that very night.

But what if you kick the bucket today? Who's gonna be around to write us a new Zen story tomorrow? 😍 🙂😁

placidharbor7 said:That isn't really Dušan's fault; it's just the natural byproduct of realizing Unity.

This conversation is getting incredibly tangled—it's definitely not Zen.

But if there isn't even enlightenment, then what exactly is left?

Honestly, I don't think any other Master has ever displayed this much sheer self-importance as Richard Walker79 😁 !!

placidharbor7 said:That isn't really Dušan's fault; it's just the natural byproduct of realizing Unity.

This conversation is getting incredibly tangled—it's definitely not Zen.

But if there isn't even enlightenment, then what exactly is left?

I'm not getting involved in Unity. But—is it really wise to go around telling people I am God? Especially on an American forum, I suppose.

placidharbor7 said:That isn't really Dušan's fault; it's just the natural byproduct of realizing Unity.

This conversation is getting incredibly tangled—it's definitely not Zen.

But if there isn't even enlightenment, then what exactly is left?

I don't see anything convoluted. 😁

placidharbor7 said:That isn't really Dušan's fault; it's just the natural byproduct of realizing Unity.

This conversation is getting incredibly tangled—it's definitely not Zen.

But if there isn't even enlightenment, then what exactly is left?

I don't think I follow the question. 😬

driftingraven122 said:I'm not getting involved in Unity. But—is it really wise to go around telling people I am God? Especially on an American forum, I suppose.

I don't see anything convoluted. 😁

I don't think I follow the question. 😬

Fine then, why don't you just stay humble and play the part of the good little child in God's Nursery?

driftingraven122 said:I'm not getting involved in Unity. But—is it really wise to go around telling people I am God? Especially on an American forum, I suppose.

I don't see anything convoluted. 😁

I don't think I follow the question. 😬

No, no—you just haven't grasped the absolute simplicity of Zen yet!

driftingraven122 said:I'm not getting involved in Unity. But—is it really wise to go around telling people I am God? Especially on an American forum, I suppose.

I don't see anything convoluted. 😁

I don't think I follow the question. 😬

There is no such thing as Truth, get it now?
🙂

I suppose—if one could even call it that—one might attempt to find some semblance of meaning here. Or perhaps not. It’s all rather trivial, I guess.

placidharbor7 said:Fine then, why don't you just stay humble and play the part of the good little child in God's Nursery?

No, no—you just haven't grasped the absolute simplicity of Zen yet!

There is no such thing as Truth, get it now?
🙂

That’s likely because I’m not God—I guess. 😁

placidharbor7 said:Fine then, why don't you just stay humble and play the part of the good little child in God's Nursery?

No, no—you just haven't grasped the absolute simplicity of Zen yet!

There is no such thing as Truth, get it now?
🙂

Splendid. And what, then, exactly, constitutes Unity?
If truth doesn't exist—not that I'm saying it doesn't—then why is it that nobody seems to grasp the concept of Unity? I guess it's just a thought.

driftingraven122 said:I suppose—if one could even call it that—one might attempt to find some semblance of meaning here. Or perhaps not. It’s all rather trivial, I guess.

That’s likely because I’m not God—I guess. 😁

Splendid. And what, then, exactly, constitutes Unity?
If truth doesn't exist—not that I'm saying it doesn't—then why is it that nobody seems to grasp the concept of Unity? I guess it's just a thought.

Of course Unity is just a mental construct.
That’s exactly why Grandmaster Dušan is essentially acting like God himself. He hasn't even settled down yet!

The "problem" doesn't lie within the Truth, nor does it live in any kind of lofty, high-minded pretension.

No, the issue lies within the intellect itself—it's like a desperate rebel constantly trying to outrun its own shadow.

Honestly, every attempt at spiritual "sublimity" is nothing more than an ultra-refined mental mess.

Everything is already right here in front of us, crazy kid. Honestly, placidharbor7 is absolutely fed up watching you babble on day and night about "Buddhism."

Either you're all kidding yourselves, or you're dealing with someone who truly loves calling himself a Master.🙂

placidharbor7 said:Of course Unity is just a mental construct.
That’s exactly why Grandmaster Dušan is essentially acting like God himself. He hasn't even settled down yet!

The "problem" doesn't lie within the Truth, nor does it live in any kind of lofty, high-minded pretension.

No, the issue lies within the intellect itself—it's like a desperate rebel constantly trying to outrun its own shadow.

Honestly, every attempt at spiritual "sublimity" is nothing more than an ultra-refined mental mess.

Everything is already right here in front of us, crazy kid. Honestly, placidharbor7 is absolutely fed up watching you babble on day and night about "Buddhism."

Either you're all kidding yourselves, or you're dealing with someone who truly loves calling himself a Master.🙂

So, you're saying Dušan imagined Unity and now he's just... processing that?
Sorry, I don't follow. 🤷

placidharbor7 said:Of course Unity is just a mental construct.
That’s exactly why Grandmaster Dušan is essentially acting like God himself. He hasn't even settled down yet!

The "problem" doesn't lie within the Truth, nor does it live in any kind of lofty, high-minded pretension.

No, the issue lies within the intellect itself—it's like a desperate rebel constantly trying to outrun its own shadow.

Honestly, every attempt at spiritual "sublimity" is nothing more than an ultra-refined mental mess.

Everything is already right here in front of us, crazy kid. Honestly, placidharbor7 is absolutely fed up watching you babble on day and night about "Buddhism."

Either you're all kidding yourselves, or you're dealing with someone who truly loves calling himself a Master.🙂

Alright, "Master"—how exactly did you realize that 'everything is already here'? Where did that insight come from, or should we call it enlightenment? If you've woken up to the idea that there is no Truth, then isn't your realization itself the Truth?

Come on, everyone, let's wrap up this debate! It’s getting us absolutely nowhere, and we're just spinning our wheels in circles.
At the end of the day, it doesn't even matter who's right. We're all just tiny little humans, and honestly, it's impossible for any one of us to know everything.

"Quotation:"

Richard Walker79 As stated by: Enough with the debate, everyone. It isn't leading anywhere; you're all just spinning your wheels.

The entire universe is spinning in circles; how can they possibly remain stationary?

"Quotation:"

Richard Walker79 As stated by: It matters little who is correct. A person is simply too small to know everything, nor can they ever hope to.

Show me that little man! 😉

jademarlin26 said:"Quotation:"

Richard Walker79 As stated by: Enough with the debate, everyone. It isn't leading anywhere; you're all just spinning your wheels.

The entire universe is spinning in circles; how can they possibly remain stationary?

"Quotation:"

Richard Walker79 As stated by: It matters little who is correct. A person is simply too small to know everything, nor can they ever hope to.

Show me that little man! 😉

Circles are unavoidable, man. They’re basically the blueprint for how we make sense of things.

When people drop lines like "nobody's right" or "there's no such thing as right or wrong," they're actually making a claim. They're saying it with the intention of being truthful—which means, in a weird way, they're trying to be right. So, it totally contradicts itself.
The second a person speaks (or even posts on a forum), there's this underlying drive to "be right." And honestly? They're right to have that drive. 🙂

But you gotta look at it differently: my "right" to be right is always bumping up against everyone else's "right" to be right. Saying "everyone is right" is actually a more accurate way to put it, 😁 because you can't even prove yourself wrong if you look at it that way.

mistyfox812 said:Circles are unavoidable, man. They’re basically the blueprint for how we make sense of things.

When people drop lines like "nobody's right" or "there's no such thing as right or wrong," they're actually making a claim. They're saying it with the intention of being truthful—which means, in a weird way, they're trying to be right. So, it totally contradicts itself.
The second a person speaks (or even posts on a forum), there's this underlying drive to "be right." And honestly? They're right to have that drive. 🙂

But you gotta look at it differently: my "right" to be right is always bumping up against everyone else's "right" to be right. Saying "everyone is right" is actually a more accurate way to put it, 😁 because you can't even prove yourself wrong if you look at it that way.

An online community shouldn't just be a battlefield for "I'm right," "this is the truth," or "you're wrong." It should also serve as a way for socializing and sharing knowledge, acting as a tool for learning.
A person might hold a single opinion where they feel certain they are correct or perhaps they simply don't care about being right—and that's perfectly fine too.

Richard Walker79, I gotta say, I think you're spot on. 🙂

mistyfox812 said:Circles are unavoidable, man. They’re basically the blueprint for how we make sense of things.

When people drop lines like "nobody's right" or "there's no such thing as right or wrong," they're actually making a claim. They're saying it with the intention of being truthful—which means, in a weird way, they're trying to be right. So, it totally contradicts itself.
The second a person speaks (or even posts on a forum), there's this underlying drive to "be right." And honestly? They're right to have that drive. 🙂

But you gotta look at it differently: my "right" to be right is always bumping up against everyone else's "right" to be right. Saying "everyone is right" is actually a more accurate way to put it, 😁 because you can't even prove yourself wrong if you look at it that way.

The first part is spot on! If a person realizes that all human knowledge is just a tiny drop in the ocean, or if they see that all debates are ultimately futile and counterproductive, then they certainly believe their claim is true. Yet, they can still acknowledge they aren't necessarily "right" because they understand how relative and ever-changing opinions and knowledge truly are.

That is precisely where the magic of Zen lies! You become completely free. It simply doesn't matter to you whether you are right or wrong. Once you reach that point, conflict vanishes, the argument loses its purpose, and you just let things be. You allow everyone else the freedom to think and believe whatever they please.

Richard Walker79 said:The first part is spot on! If a person realizes that all human knowledge is just a tiny drop in the ocean, or if they see that all debates are ultimately futile and counterproductive, then they certainly believe their claim is true. Yet, they can still acknowledge they aren't necessarily "right" because they understand how relative and ever-changing opinions and knowledge truly are.

That is precisely where the magic of Zen lies! You become completely free. It simply doesn't matter to you whether you are right or wrong. Once you reach that point, conflict vanishes, the argument loses its purpose, and you just let things be. You allow everyone else the freedom to think and believe whatever they please.

👍 👍 👍

mistyfox812 said:Richard Walker79, I gotta say, I think you're spot on. 🙂

Pardon my bluntness, but: 🙂

There's an old saying: the person who's right gets one slap, while the person who's wrong gets two!😉