How to build real self-confidence?

Tyler Grant76 said:You didn't actually answer me: what’s the point of someone being modest? What exactly is the upside to that?

And why would I bother answering you? If you don't see the value in it now, an hour-long lecture isn't going to change your mind. It feels like a waste of my time if the door is already closed.

As for the conclusions of this "experiment," as you put it—I thought I was being pretty clear. Self-confidence (and our entire sense of self, really) is built on the feedback we get from the people around us.
That isn't even my own theory; I've just read it in studies. I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert on the subject, so I'm not trying to lay down any definitive laws here. I can have an opinion, though. Just like you.
You have yours. Mine is different. So what? I'm perfectly fine with that.

Mark Hughes36 said:I’ve simplified the whole thing—there are just good people and less-than-good people.
Good people don't trigger negative reactions in others
because they won't sell their souls for something they aren't
nor do they try to climb over someone else to get ahead.
Good people are humble and kind and all those idealistic clichés.😁

You haven't actually made a point here.
It sounds like you're suggesting a "good person" is merely someone who lacks value and asks for nothing. The moment someone has actual worth and seeks something, they're suddenly labeled "bad."
Speaking of which, I once went along with a local group out to some small coastal town in Maine for a bit of fun to visit this psychic woman who does readings with cards—those ladies go see her literally every single week. As soon as we walked in and sat down, I didn't say a word beyond a polite hello, and yet the woman called me a "psychologist." I'm certainly not trained in that field, nor was she referring to my profession, but clearly, to her, that label carried a negative connotation.

Anthony Harris14 said:you haven't actually made a point here
It seems a person is only considered "good" if they have nothing to offer and ask for nothing in return. As soon as they possess value and express a need, they're instantly labeled as bad.
Speaking of which, I once joined a local group on a small island off the coast of Florida for a laugh and visited this psychic who does readings with cards—people visit her once a week like clockwork. The moment we walked in and sat down, I barely said anything beyond a hello, yet she called me a "psychologist." I’m not in that profession, nor was she referring to my career, but clearly, to her, that label carried a negative sting.

On the contrary, I've said plenty. 😉
Life is fairly simple if you don't insist on overcomplicating it.
And if you stop looking for justifications for your thoughts and actions—not that I'm implying you do that, just a general observation.

I wasn't describing "good people," I was simply stating that they exist.
And yes, because of how they carry themselves, they don't trigger negative reactions in others.
Whether those good people are lighthouses, homemakers, professors, or astronauts doesn't matter.

It isn't relevant to this discussion who deserves what.
What matters is their approach—according to my ultra-simplified 😁 theory, good people act in a way that isn't repulsive to others and ensures nobody feels threatened by their attitude or behavior.

Perhaps I'm just not articulate enough to put it properly.
It’s a matter of personal experience.

Here is a simple, relatable example: a beautiful woman can shout "I'm gorgeous" from the rooftops, or she can be modest in her beauty—whether that stems from insecurity, a sense of guilt, or something else entirely.

In any case, the first one will easily provoke envy and resentment in others.
The second might become your best friend, someone you could never feel even a shred of jealousy toward, even if she seems perfect at times.

rustyangler68 said:Why would I even bother responding? If you can't see the point, then no amount of me explaining it for hours is going to change your mind. It's just a waste of my damn time if there's nothing there.

Using lines like that just exposes how insecure you really are, and honestly, that supposed modesty doesn't mean a thing 👎 . If you're being modest, it’s clearly just a defense mechanism. And if you aren't, then maybe just be upfront about why you lack any real substance.

Mark Hughes36 said:Here’s an easy way to look at it... a beautiful girl might shout "I'm gorgeous!" from the rooftops, or she might be a bit more modest about her looks—whether that's because she's feeling a little insecure, or maybe she feels some kind of "guilt" for being pretty, or just for some other reason entirely...

So, you're basically saying modesty is just being a pushover. 😁

a) a lack of being Confident
b) a lack of being Confident + just being dim-witted

Since you didn't really define that last part, I can't exactly weigh in on it either... 😁

Mark Hughes36 said:Here’s a simple one for you—a beautiful girl can scream "I'm gorgeous" all day long.

That’s just vanity. Being Confident doesn't mean you can't be humble; they aren't opposites. Look at the Buddhists in Nepal. They’re the ultimate mix of being Confident and staying modest. Are they messed up? Depends on who's looking. But they certainly don't feel messed up.

Mark Hughes36 said:On the contrary, I’ve said all there is to say. 😉
Life is actually quite straightforward, provided one doesn't insist on making it difficult
by constantly hunting for justifications for every thought or action (I am certainly not implying you are doing that, this is merely a general observation).

I wasn't providing a catalog of virtuous people; I was simply stating that they exist.
And yes, precisely because of their nature, they don't trigger negative reactions in others.
Whether these good people are lighthouses, homemakers, Ivy League professors, or NASA astronauts—it truly makes no difference.

It isn't relevant at all (to the context of this discussion) who deserves what.
The only thing that matters is how one approaches the question—according to my own (rather ultra-simplified 😁) theory, good people handle it by being unrepulsive to others, ensuring no one feels threatened by their attitude or behavior.

Perhaps I lack the linguistic dexterity to express this clearly.
Ultimately, we are dealing with the realm of personal experience.

Here is a simple, relatable example: a beautiful woman might shout "I'm gorgeous!" from the rooftops, or she might possess a certain modesty within that beauty (whether due to insecurity, a sense of "guilt" for her looks, or some other reason).

In any case, the former is far more likely to spark envy and resentment in those around her.
While the latter might become your closest friend—someone you could never feel even a shred of jealousy toward, even if she occasionally seems perfect to you.

Have you ever heard that old American saying: "You can't please everyone"?

blueranger12, I think you missed the mark on this one. 😁
It’s not really that I think being a confident guy makes someone a jerk... it’s more that what 😉
Mark Hughes36 posted as an example isn't actually modesty at all. It's just being an asshole.
And honestly, I totally agree that a Confident man can still be humble. In fact, he might be the only one who can be, simply because he has enough self-assurance that he doesn't feel this constant, desperate need to show off...

Jack Harris3 said:blueranger12, you got it wrong. 😁
I’m not saying a Confident guy is a bad guy. I’m saying what Mark Hughes36 posted as an example wasn't humility—it was just being a jerk. 😉

And yeah, I agree a Confident person can be humble too. Honestly, they might be the only ones who can, because they actually have enough self-belief that they don't feel the need to show off.

Oh, okay, I see the sarcasm now. 😁 Even if Buddhists are messed up, sitting up there in paradise isn't exactly "pure" in my book. 😁

In today's world of constant marketing and competition, if you aren't making noise, you're failing. Humility doesn't pay the bills anymore. That’s why I don't judge people for stepping up when it's the only way to get ahead. It’s like that Grunfov saying: If you stand out, you matter. If you don't stand out, you don't. And if you matter, you stand out. 😁

blueranger12 said:In today's cutthroat marketing landscape, being Confident is basically a survival skill. If you don't make some noise, you just fade into the background and disappear. Honestly, modesty doesn't really pay the bills anymore. That’s why I don't judge people for showing off if it's the only way to get ahead... It reminds me of that old Grunfov saying: If you stand out, you matter. If you don't, you don't. And if you matter, you have to stand out. 😁

That wasn't quite my point, though... I was talking more about that unnecessary self-promotion in places where it just feels wrong. Like, acting all high and mighty in a social circle or something. Confident people don't usually feel the need to do that.
In your career, obviously, you have to speak up about what you can do. That isn't being cocky, it's just common sense. It's expected. Because if you don't explicitly state what you bring to the table—and then actually prove it—someone else is going to step in and take your spot, while you sit there being "modest" and watching your opportunities slip away... 😁

Look, I’ll tell you one thing—go down to the Social Security office and just be polite. You'll get treated like a total hero. But if you go in there acting like a complete jerk? Yeah, you're gonna have a bad time.
And hey, if you want to act tough, you gotta be Confident first.

On another note, let's talk about being Confident. Let's see... who handles criticism better, someone with high self-esteem or someone who's totally unsure of themselves? Honestly, you can only actually improve if you can take some feedback. Lacking confidence is like being stuck in quicksand—it's a real struggle to climb out.
Then again, whether people are Confident or not, they're all going to react to criticism differently. At the end of the day, how you handle critique doesn't really have much to do with your level of confidence anyway.

Yeah. 😁

Jack Harris3 said:There is. 😁

Yeah, there isn't. 😁 😁

I mean, I know some kid out there has one, but... man, what a joke—it's all just empty talk...

dustyscout53 said:Look, whether people are Confident or they aren't, they all deal with criticism the same way. Accepting feedback isn't really about how much self-esteem you have.

But here's the thing. Someone who isn't Confident? They'll swallow even the worst, most useless criticism. It just messes with their head. A Confident person won't let it get to them. If you stay quiet, then you're just letting it happen. 😁

dustyscout53 said:I know one thing for sure. Go down to the Social Security office and be polite. They’ll treat you like an invading German army. But go there and start acting like a total jerk, and you'll be at the front of the line.
Well, if you intend to act like a jerk, you certainly need to be Confident.

On the other hand, let's talk about being Confident. Let's see. Who handles criticism better—someone with high self-esteem or someone struggling with it? And since you can only actually improve by accepting criticism, one might think... but then again, a lack of confidence is like quicksand; once you're in, it's incredibly hard to climb out.
Yet, even Confident people, just like those lacking it, choose whether to accept or reject feedback. In reality, how you handle criticism doesn't have much to do with how much self-assurance you possess.

Whenever I deal with rude clerks at the DMV, I become veeeery formal, very quiet, and I give them that intense, unblinking psycho stare. It's the "I am not leaving this building until I get what I came for" look. Eventually, they realize it's easier to just help me than to deal with the headache. I suspect a lot of people walk up to those counters with the mindset that they're going to tear someone a new one, which only creates unnecessary friction. Everything would be so much smoother if the staff realized the utility of posting clear signage and actually kept that information updated. If people just learned to check the bulletin boards for info, life would be easy. These "creative" ways of communicating—where they just slap a notice wherever it happens to fit—don't really count as helpful communication.

velvetpilot212 said:Sentences like that just scream insecurity. At that point, your "modesty" doesn't actually count for much 👎. If you're being modest, it's just a defense mechanism. If you aren't, then why shouldn't we assume you lack character?

I never once claimed to be modest. And you’re really going to sit there and judge my entire character after reading maybe twenty of my posts? That seems a bit much. I know I'm a high-quality person. I'm also Confident enough to accept that people might see things differently than I do, without letting it shake my resolve or feeling the need to overexplain myself just to win an argument.

Jack Harris3 said:I’m with you on this. A truly Confident man can absolutely be humble. In fact, he might be the only one who can pull it off, simply because he has enough self-assurance that he doesn't feel the need to constantly prove himself to anyone.

My point exactly.👍

rustyangler68 said:I consider myself a high-quality person. And I'm Confident enough to accept that others might see things differently than I do, without letting it shake my own views. I don't feel the need to over-explain myself, either.

Well, I didn't actually ask you about over-explaining. I was asking how you perceive modesty. So, I guess I don't really get why you'd even bother responding if your take is just, "If you don't see it, explaining it for hours won't change anything, so there's no point wasting my time." We're having a conversation here. I'm interested in hearing from other people. 🙂 And honestly, if I get some meaningful insight that builds on my own perspective, I'm just grateful for it.

Tyler Grant76 said:I wasn't asking you for an exhaustive lecture. I wanted to know your take on modesty. So, why even bother responding if the answer is essentially, "If you don't see it, I won't spend hours explaining it to you, so there's no point wasting my time"? We're having a conversation here. I'm actually interested in people 🙂 And if I get a solid perspective that upgrades my own thinking, I'm all for it.

This is my third attempt at posting this. Apparently, the first two were too long and the site logged me out mid-sentence.
Let me cut to the chase.
Look, Tyler Grant76, that isn't how I read you. If you had asked, "How do you perceive modesty?" I would have answered accordingly.
But when I read, "What is the point, anyway?" I interpret it like this:
a) You think there is no point (and I’m not particularly interested in trying to convince you otherwise, nor do I view it as a good use of my time).
b) You aren't actually curious about my thoughts; you just want an intellectual fight. My evidence? You cherry-pick the parts of my posts that you DISAGREE with—which feels more like a desire for confrontation than consensus. Then you follow up with an imperative ("Come on, explain it"), which feels like you're trying to claim the high ground. It’s condescending, and frankly, I don't care for it. Even when you put quotes around the experiment I mentioned, it comes off as sarcasm. Sarcasm in a discussion is just a subtle form of manipulation. I don't like it. Does anyone else? Or maybe this is just some hazing ritual for new members on this forum? Like, "Now we question you, now prove yourself." If that's the case, it isn't exactly friendly.
To address your point—this is how I view modesty. I prefer unbranded clothes. I don't need a luxury SUV just to signal status; a reliable sedan is fine. When someone tells me I did a great job, I won't spend ten minutes bragging about it; I'll just say thanks. (I know I did a good job—that's being Confident, which proves my earlier point: confidence and modesty can absolutely coexist.) I don't need to shout about how smart I am. Here's a practical example of "purpose": I won't go into massive debt for a flashy car only to struggle to pay my rent. Wouldn't you agree there's some purpose in that?
Since you're into psychology, have you read any Adler or Freud? There are some great examples of excessive ego in classic American psychological texts. As for that other debate I saw online that prompted me to join this thread, I can't recall the author's name to recommend it to you.
Have a good one!

Here are my quotes and questions for you:

Modesty? I mean, what’s really the point of it?
And why would anyone want to hide or downplay their skills or knowledge? I might have some trait that seems amazing to others, but to me, it’s just... nothing. It's just how I am. So, if I don't react to praise for something that feels like my baseline, people might call that modesty. But it isn't. We just measure things differently, I guess.

Alright, then walk me through it.

You didn't actually answer me: what is the purpose of being modest? What exactly makes it a positive thing?

If you're reading this as an attack, a provocation, or some attempt at manipulation or confrontation, then well, screw it. 🙂 Tyler Grant76 just likes to talk, to have a conversation. 🎉 🎉
I don't really pay attention to how many posts someone has made.