Would young people still want to move abroad today?

Ronald Castillo5 said:But then again, about eight months ago, I remember seeing it in the New York Post or maybe some other paper, or even just scrolling on my phone... they were saying something like 70% of young people want to move abroad.

Look, there's a massive difference between checking a box on a survey saying you'd move overseas and actually sitting down, weighing your options, and packing your bags.

Young people—and honestly, I probably still fall into that category myself🙂 are generally just fed up with how things are. For them, saying "I want to leave the country" is often more of a way to vent their frustration than an actual flight plan.

Noah Young16 said:There’s a massive difference between checking a box on a survey about moving abroad and actually sitting down to make a plan and leaving.

Young people (and I probably still count myself in that group🙂 tend to be pretty unhappy with things, and just saying they want to move is often just their way of venting that frustration.

That’s a great way to put it.

What do you think... isn't that just how most people operate...

They spend so much time complaining about how things suck—even when it's true—but very few people are actually ready to take big, decisive steps to change their lives for the better...

Ronald Castillo5 said:You explained that really well.

What do you think... isn't that just a general trait for most people...

Where they spend most of their time just complaining about how things aren't going well (even when it's true that things suck), but hardly anyone is actually willing to take any drastic steps to change their situation and make life better.

Exactly!

But honestly, that’s not some special trait just for us living here; it's basically just human nature for all Homo sapiens :-) . That’s probably more of a question for a psychologist than anything else ;-)

On top of that, one of the most common ways people deal with this is by generalizing everything.
A classic example: Americans are drowning in debt, we owe trillions, who's ever going to pay it back? The big banks are just going to take everything from us...

In my opinion, that mindset is totally wrong!
Look, I’m one of those people with debt. I stand behind my obligations with my own Social Security number; I calculated the risk, and I’m going to pay it back. What does my debt have to do with you or your options? It doesn't.

But hey, what can you do? It's always much easier to talk in broad strokes than to actually tackle a real problem head-on.
It’s a shame because that kind of talk creates such a negative vibe, and that atmosphere is huge for investors (and I don't just mean the massive corporations, but even the tiny startups). Nobody wants to invest in something like new tech or spend money on training their employees during uncertain times... and then we just end up spinning in this vicious cycle.

How much can I or anyone else actually do? Maybe not a whole lot, but even a little goes a long way. Just influencing ten people you know is already a pretty big deal.

Anyway, the tide will turn! Even this downward trend—at least from where I'm sitting—in young people moving away is a sign that things are starting to shift slightly...

I totally agree that this isn't just about people from one specific area... it's more of a general thing.

In my book, this whole approach is fundamentally flawed.
Look, I’m one of those debtors myself. I’m standing behind my obligations with my own Social Security number, plain and simple. I’ve run the numbers, I’ve calculated the risks, and I fully intend to settle what I owe. My personal debt has absolutely nothing to do with you or whatever speculative options you're playing with....

...and if you end up behind bars or just find yourself totally broke without a co-signer, well, of course the taxpayers will be stuck picking up the tab for you...

...besides, you constantly hear this nonsense about young scientists leaving the country because they're "overqualified"... honestly, you’d think people believed the rest of the world had absolutely no clue what they were doing... yet, they seem to be doing remarkably well out there!
...what that guy from Canada mentioned is spot on; abroad, you distinguish between actual scientists who actually bring something to the table and those who just finished school but haven't the slightest idea how to apply what they learned!
That's exactly why everyone says you should study what you actually love—because then you'll actually have the drive and the passion to put that knowledge into practice!

If you're under the impression that working at a university over there is some easy ride... just know that students essentially dictate who gets to teach them, rather than the government calling all the shots like we see here in the States! See, the students who are genuinely hungry for knowledge are the ones willing to pay for it; but if it turns out you don't know how to actually convey that information, or if you lack the depth of expertise required, they'll tell you straight up that you aren't fit to teach at their institution!

Yeah, I'm with you on that...

I’m definitely not an expert in the scientific community, so I can't say for sure how much room there actually is—not just in terms of money, but for real academic ambition—for people coming over from back home... but I have a friend who spent 20 years studying here in the United Kingdom... first undergrad, then a master's, and finally an eight-year PhD grind.

Anyway, he's still stuck doing basic office work morning and night because he just can't land a real position... he worked briefly, but the students checked out after ten minutes... I guess he's just not cut out for teaching, even though he's brilliant... probably read the entire library three times over...

On the flip side... I know someone else who did incredibly well back in Chicago...

He owned 17 different properties that he used for rentals... some in the city, some at beach houses, flipping them and all that... made great money...

But now, he's moved to the United States and is working on even bigger projects... and that's saying something.

So... it makes me wonder...

Are there enough people with that entrepreneurial spirit who want to take their talents abroad rather than staying local, thinking they might actually find more success overseas??

Ronald Castillo5, it isn't just about having an entrepreneurial spirit! You could start a business in a tiny rural town in Nebraska or right in the heart of Chicago, and you’ll quickly realize which one actually offers a fighting chance...
Obviously, it's Chicago, because remember the old rule: "Follow the people, and you'll find the money!"
We have plenty of folks around here who are incredibly driven and capable, but they just don't have the startup capital. When someone decides to go out on their own, nothing happens overnight. It’s a slow grind. You don't go out and lease a Mercedes or a BMW on credit right away; you drive a beat-up work truck and push it to its absolute limit until it dies!
...In America, it's just like I said before—the market is massive. If you have a legitimate idea and access to capital like your friend does, breaking through is much easier. But if all you have is an idea? Well, it's going to take longer, though persistence can get you there eventually. However, if you decide to move abroad just because someone told you everything is perfect over there, but you lack both a solid plan and the funds to back it up, you’re going to end up stuck working dead-end jobs just to keep your head above water!

Yeah..

I really hope people are moving past that old idea of the West being some kind of "El Dorado," where you could just wander through parks and pick up hundreds of dollars or euros just lying on the ground..

Back when I was heading overseas for training, knowing I’d eventually have to earn my own way, I fully expected to be pulling 12-hour shifts every single night at some greasy deli, just spreading mayo on sandwiches... because that's what a few of my buddies ended up doing....

And honestly, I was ready for that life... yep, let's go... no problem at all... working 12 hours a night, then hitting class during the day...(mandatory classes, otherwise you lose your visa).

But lo and behold... I didn't actually have to pull those 12-hour shifts every single night... I managed to get by and pay my bills working just four nights a week...

So, I felt pretty lucky and satisfied with that...

Meanwhile, some folks who came over from the White House to the United Kingdom... they were constantly complaining, saying things like, "What is this? I hate this, I hate that."

But me? I'm loving every second of it, day and night... cleaning toilets, washing dishes, painting, landscaping... everything... all while trying to soak up every bit of English I can...

Anyway... that's why I started this thread... the circumstances in my life and in America ten years ago were so different than they are today, so I'm curious about what people's perceptions are now. How do you view the West versus America today, and how do you compare your chances, desires, and aspirations...

...it’s funny how people view the West... I mean, are you actually interested in finding some gorgeous little thing to settle down with? 😁
...you see young people hanging around coffee shops all day long, but those who actually have the drive to make something of themselves move on; they’re focused solely on the bottom line, whether they stay here in the States or head abroad!
The only thing that makes them hesitate about leaving is the sheer instability—the uncertainty of where you're headed or what kind of life is actually waiting for you on the other side...
...plenty of folks look toward Europe for work, since Australia is just way too far out of reach... then there's America...
But generally speaking, most people seem to cling to Europe somehow....

casualtrucker17 said:...and if you end up in prison or just can't pay and don't have anyone to bail you out, obviously the government is going to step in and cover it for you...

Wait, what do you mean the government is going to pay off those debts??!!

Banks ALWAYS have ways to make sure they get their money back, no matter what. They've got plenty of tools to ensure they collect!
The government doesn't have anything to do with this at all...

Greetings, everyone.

It’s been interesting following the commentary on this thread. Given that we have voices from both those living abroad and those staying here in the States—with many arguing that moving away is the only way to go—I decided to weigh in based on my own experience.

To give you some context: I spend five days a week abroad and spend my weekends back home in the US. I often find myself discussing the reality of life overseas with my friends here, though they haven't actually tried it themselves. I'm talking about truly living there—not just going for a shopping trip or a ski vacation.

Young people here still view the "West" through a romanticized lens—largely because they see new trends and product varieties being imported from highly developed markets at an increasing pace. This creates an illusion that those countries are infinitely wealthier and more functional. That perception is a natural reaction to the frustration felt when things don't work properly domestically. People tend to see what they want to see, constructing logical-sounding arguments to support their belief that life is undoubtedly better elsewhere. They base these conclusions on broad metrics and a tendency toward generalization.

A lot of their assumptions are correct; the foreign market is incomparably larger, offering a wider array of jobs across numerous sectors. Salaries are also significantly higher than what we see in the US.

However, they miss the bigger picture. As I mentioned, people see what they want to see, ignoring the fact that the cost of living is substantially higher. They also fail to realize how difficult it is for a foreigner to break through; it takes significant time to integrate, build a social circle, and truly belong. Often, this takes years, and during that initial period, a person's quality of life may be significantly lower than what they were accustomed to back home. Making more money doesn't automatically equate to a better life—money isn't everything. You have to consider free time, the absence of lifelong friends, and the loss of the comforts our people are used to.

The reality is that life in the US isn't all bad. As someone previously noted, a young, capable individual earning around $1,000 a month can often enjoy a much higher quality of life here in Beautiful Our country than someone earning double or triple that amount somewhere else in Europe.

There is another factor for those with an entrepreneurial spirit: while the market abroad is massive, the competition is proportionally much fiercer. Markets are saturated with endless products and services. It feels as if everything was invented decades ago, leaving very little room for innovation. Consequently, to start something in the West, you need a massive amount of capital just to remain competitive and maintain quality.
On the other hand, there is still far more maneuvering room here for someone who wants to take a solid idea from abroad, adapt it to the American market, and inject their own creative touch.

Ultimately, if someone is determined to achieve something by moving abroad, they likely will. For such an individual, it can be an invaluable experience. No matter how much one listens to the opinions of others, the only way to truly know is to experience it firsthand.
Living abroad teaches you how businesses are organized and how markets function, but that expertise can certainly be applied back home later. The point is that under capitalism, things work similarly whether you are in the US or elsewhere; a person must learn to provide for themselves. The myth that the government takes better care of you abroad usually stems from a lack of understanding from those who haven't tried it. In robust economic markets, everything is driven by the pursuit of profit. If you aren't careful, you can easily be left behind by cheaper labor or a more competitive product.

Gary Cox72

Gary Cox72 said:Actually, I spend five days a week out on the road, and then I'm back home in the States on the weekends.

How do you even pull that off?

If you’ve got a secret formula for managing that kind of schedule, let me know... I'd be forever in your debt. I'll even cover the beers whenever we're hanging out in the States...

Ronald Castillo5 said:How do you pull it off?

If you’ve got a secret recipe for making this work, let me know—I’ll be forever in your debt, plus you can grab free beers anywhere in the States every other weekend.

I manage it because I'm from a coastal city like San Diego, and when it came time to move abroad, I chose Northern Italy. Proximity was a massive factor for me. Since those northern regions are pretty developed, someone from a place like San Diego or Southern California can easily find work in Italy while still being able to fly back to the States for weekends.

It wasn't always that easy to get back home at first—I was living in Milan, which is about a 5 or 6-hour drive—so I could only make the trip back roughly every third weekend.
Later, I worked on getting closer to the US without sacrificing my quality of life, eventually moving to Padua (about a 3-hour drive).

Italy is a land of contradictions, sure, but it isn't bad. I'm not complaining. My hope is to stay here as long as possible, working in the city of Saint Anthony while spending my weekends back home in my favorite American city.

The government isn't doing anything about this...

...look, once you're in prison, or in the military, or part of those other state agencies... you get something. It’s not a fortune, sure, but the government pays its dues eventually. It might be slow, but everyone gets their payout in the end! 😁

By the way, I spend five days a week abroad, and then I'm back in the States on the weekends. I often find myself talking with my friends here about what life is actually like overseas, even though they haven't really experienced it themselves. And I mean *living* there—not just popping over for some shopping trip or a weekend of skiing.

...so you're out of the country for most of the week and then you fly back to America for the weekend? Where exactly are you doing this "temporary work" of yours... maybe somewhere like Mexico? 😁

...oh, wait, I just read that Italy was the grand prize for a million dollars!
Congrats, you're officially a millionaire now... el Gary Cox72! 😁

casualtrucker17, I have to admit—your comment caught me off guard, and frankly, in a rather unpleasant way.

I’m not sure why this isn't clicking for you—where exactly in the States do you live? If you’ve spent enough time driving toward the Midwest and know those routes well, then perhaps you have a better handle on it than I do; it’s been a while since I’ve been out that way. Though, it’s certainly interesting to hear that someone can make it from a city like Seattle so quickly.

Just for your own situational awareness, the distance between Seattle and Portland is roughly 44 miles. To be clear, if you were heading from Seattle toward somewhere like San Francisco, you might deal with various checkpoints depending on the state lines, though things are generally fluid within the US. Once you hit the main interstate, you can be there in under two hours—assuming, of course, you don't run into any massive traffic jams, especially during a sunny weekend when everyone is out cruising and heading home in the evening.

stuntman said:How exactly do you pull that off?

If you happen to have a foolproof formula for achieving this, I’d be eternally grateful. In exchange, I’ll cover your beer tabs anywhere in the US every other weekend for the rest of your life.

Actually, let me offer you an alternative strategy: if you're from Washington, D.C., just go work in Vienna.

William Lewis10 said:I suppose I could offer you another similar scenario: if you are from Washington, D.C., you might just end up working in Vienna instead!

And I imagine those folks in Vienna are simply waiting for one more person from America to arrive, right?

Here is what an American thinks about living in the States

THE UNITED STATES IS A HORRIBLE PLACE TO LIVE

quoted

Americans have the idea that the US is heaven on Earth—it is much closer to hell.

quietmason58 said:Here is what some foreigner had to say about living in America:

THE UNITED STATES IS A TERRIBLE PLACE TO LIVE

quoted

Heh... the guy is an absolute idiot. Maybe he should just head back to dull, dreary England then.