Would young people still want to move abroad today?

mobyXXL said:...
Investing in stocks requires both grit and an incredibly deep foundation of economic knowledge. Furthermore, if you don't have at least $15,000 on your side, you shouldn't even bother looking at the stock market. 🤔
...

I disagree. I'm a former merchant mariner who now lives off the stock market, and I have zero formal economic training. I started trading with just $10,000, so your theory about needing a massive minimum isn't quite right.

What actually matters is having some common sense, being able to handle basic math, and possessing a tremendous amount of willpower. 😁

mistypanther34

Ronald Castillo5 said:Hey there...

I suppose I’m an optimist at my core, though on the surface, I try to stay realistic.

I don't really see how you can separate the state as an institution from the people who make it up. To me, they are one and the same... the people running the country choose the local and national officials who define what the institution actually becomes.

You say you have the time and the will to wait for this situation—which you view as temporary—to change. But do you have any actual idea how long that waiting period might be? 5, 10, 25, 50 years? I guess once you put those numbers on paper, things look a bit different.

Let me lay out a hypothetical based on your post, which I've split into two parts: your take on the US, and your take on life abroad.

Do you think there's a chance that:

1. Your view of the US is too optimistic—meaning, unrealistic.

2. Your view of life abroad is too pessimistic—meaning, also unrealistic.

Regarding life abroad, I'm not saying there aren't situations where someone always feels like an outsider and never assimilates, but where I am, I haven't felt like a stranger since day one because foreigners aren't treated differently... everyone is just a customer, and customers are valued.

Actually, there are plenty of expats here from all walks of life and various nations. I manage some Americans at work, and my boss is a foreigner too... we all just accept each other regardless of where we're from.

Think about it this way... here in the UK, I can say where I'm from and people find it interesting without issue, but if I were in Miami and said I was from Washington, D.C., I might get a different reaction. So, within the US, I feel more like an outsider than I do in the UK.

Maybe your perception of life abroad is a bit off, and perhaps your view of the US is too, given that there seems to be more exclusivism and elitism toward outsiders in our own backyard than in the UK.

Don't take this the wrong way; I think it's perfectly fine to have your own perspective on the US and to do your best to make things better here.

I'll allow that my view of the US is too optimistic and my view of life abroad is too pessimistic. But look—from my professional standpoint as an English teacher and translator, things look better in the US because as we integrate further into the European Union, there will be more work for me. Since I plan to finish my economics certification in the next two years, I'm currently studying business mechanics so I can start my own firm. My goal is to run my own business until I'm 50 or 55, and then retire. I think that's easier to achieve in the US.
And maybe I'm just a coward—I just don't particularly want to leave.

Once I wrap up my degree, I’m heading overseas
And please—don't go thinking there aren't plenty of us feeling this way

Why?

Because honestly, I am completely fed up with the endless fairy tales and empty promises from our leaders about "better living" and "social equality"
I want to live in a country where experts are actually treated with the respect they deserve
A place where specialists actually have a seat at the table when decisions are made—instead of seeing massive infrastructure projects and transit lines built in locations that defy all common sense

To be clear, this isn't even about the money
I love my country, and if the conditions ever actually improve, I’d happily come back one day to help build things up as much as I can
But until the people in charge start looking at high-growth nations like Chile or Ireland and actually make some real progress—rather than just shuffling deck chairs on their failed attempts to lower unemployment—I’ll be out of here like a bat out of hell!

Amanda Torres5 - look, if every young American thought like that, nothing in this country would ever actually change. "Oh, I'll come back later and help build things up"? Yeah, right. Good luck trying to help out now. Who knows if there'll even be anything left to help by then.
Personally, I want to stay right here in the States. I love this place, and honestly, I know I’ll never feel as at home anywhere else as I do here. It’s a beautiful country, even with all the absolute crap that happens on a daily basis.
But I'm staying. And I want to try and actually do something to make it better. Because, you know what they say... if not us, who? If not now, when?

Sophia Brown78 said:Amanda Torres5 - I suppose if every young American thought like that, nothing would ever change here. The idea of coming back later to help build things up? Good luck with that. There might not even be an opportunity left by then.
Personally, I want to stay in the States. I love this country, and I know I’ll never feel truly at home anywhere else. It’s a beautiful place, despite all the nonsense that happens here on a daily basis.
But I want to stick around and try to make a difference. Like they say, if not us, who? If not now, when?

This is pretty much where I stand. In principle, I agree.👍

It is true that certain things function better abroad—especially regarding the standard of living. Generally speaking, there are more opportunities to find work or climb the corporate ladder; if you’re capable, advancement comes more easily. Western economies are stronger, and things just run smoother.

However, this isn't a fair comparison—you can't directly compare America to a highly developed Western nation.

We are talking about the position of a young person entering a new environment, and one critical factor is being ignored. The assumption is that a young person from America deciding to move abroad doesn't have much money tucked away. You cannot compare such an individual to an Austrian, for example. An Austrian was born there, is fully integrated, and possesses far better predispositions to maintain or achieve that specific standard of living.
A young American arrives at square one, and that initial difference in quality of life isn't even reflected in the numbers. Living expenses are astronomical, and it takes a long time to save any significant amount. Often, it takes years to reach the quality of life one had back home. This is only possible if they start with a salary two or three times higher than what locals earn—which isn't always the case. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's rare. I am speaking generally.

Let me outline one realistic scenario where a young person might find themselves stuck:
For instance, renting is incredibly expensive in cities that offer great opportunities. Eventually, anyone deciding to live abroad should consider buying a home rather than hemorrhaging cash on rent. The first solution is a mortgage. But at the start, it is difficult to pivot rental payments into mortgage installments to pay off a house you actually own. Why?
Because no one grants credit to a foreigner who hasn't been in the country for at least two or three years and established a solid income. Since you don't own property, it's hard to save enough for a down payment given how high rents are. Some people are forced to move abroad only to find themselves living with roommates even at age 30. I've seen plenty of those cases. Is it really a "high quality of life" to be forced to live like a college student at that age?
The second thing is that you are away from your family, and if you are moving with a partner, she also needs to be in a position to earn a solid income.

It is the same story with cars. In this day and age, a car is a necessity, and in the West, it should theoretically be easier. In practice, for foreigners, it isn't.
At the beginning, it's hard for foreigners to get anything without a co-signer. I read a thread on a forum where people were wondering why they need a guarantor for leasing back home. Well, it's the same abroad; they ask for a guarantor, especially if the applicant is a foreigner. Leasing companies view it as a headache—they don't want the risk of a foreigner losing their job or their residency permit. While they do get to keep the car if things go south, they don't want the hassle of dealing with the legal fallout of an abandoned vehicle. They simply don't want the trouble.

So, I've laid out a few realistic situations where a young person moving abroad often finds themselves. My point is that it isn't realistic to directly compare the profitability of moving abroad with the economic power of America versus Western nations. Moving doesn't instantly solve all your problems, even if you land a high-paying job. Someone arriving alone without a support system lacks the standard of living they had at home, nor do they have the same access to favorable conditions, like low-interest loans. Personally, I'm not a fan of taking on massive debt, but I see that people abroad use it heavily because the rates are so favorable.

Primarily, moving abroad pays off if you go to gain experience. If a person manages to advance significantly and grows to love the new environment, then staying makes sense. It just usually takes a long time to get to that point.

But if someone has already reached a solid income level in America, they are better off staying put and maintaining an optimistic outlook, much like hiddencrane18.

Gary Cox72 said:The cost of living is absolutely brutal—saving any meaningful amount of money feels almost impossible.

What costs? 🙄 Are people over there also paying more than half their paycheck for six years just to finance a diesel Polo? Or struggling to pay off a 400-square-foot studio for thirty years?

papa štrumf said:Costs? Please. 🙄Are people over there actually forced to hand over more than half their paycheck for six years just to afford a new Volkswagen diesel? Or do they spend thirty years struggling to pay off a tiny 400-square-foot studio apartment?

And don't even get me started on the unemployment rates and the pathetic state of social safety nets in the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden... 🙂

As for the Norwegians, they’re practically starving.

Just look at our rugged, mountainous terrain compared to somewhere like Switzerland...

Furthermore, I hear you can't even secure a single cent for scientific research out there in the West.

I am certain that our local Department of Science would approve several hundred million just to send a probe to Pluto if we asked; if Westerners can pull it off, why shouldn't we?

I am tired of looking at the rankings of the top 500 universities in the world—not a single American institution makes the cut. The few remaining legal institutes where I could actually find work exist solely to provide $1.25 government salaries to the staff, and that's it. No projects, no innovation, no investment, not even any published books... It is incomprehensible to me that I would be expected to buy a mountain of expensive textbooks for research at some Western university, simply because our colleges here can't bother to stock them.

Quincy:

We’re talking about a young person trying to find their footing in a totally new environment, but one huge factor is being overlooked here. We have to assume that an American deciding to move abroad doesn't usually have a massive pile of cash sitting in the bank.

That was a great post... honestly, not because everything you said is perfect, but because there is so much to unpack here. I'm not saying you missed any real-world scenarios—I'm sure everything you mentioned happens, and probably worse things too... but what I really want to emphasize is that there are no set rules. It all comes down to the individual and how they handle themselves. There are better paths available, depending on how someone chooses to push forward or slip back...

My goal with this thread was sort of to see the gap between my own perspective and how people view moving abroad versus how things were in the US back in '94, and how young people look at it ten years later.

When I decided to head out, my plan was to go exactly where I am now—to get an education... but I had zero money. Back in '91, I was making about $1 an hour, and then I spent two years back in school. My wife and I eventually worked out a plan to spend the summer in Germany; she did house cleaning and I washed cars, just to scrape something together. We managed to save a few thousand dollars over two months, which we borrowed so we could afford the trip to the United Kingdom and cover my first semester of tuition. Since we weren't citizens, we had to pay the full price upfront...

Quincy:

A young person from America arrives starting from scratch, and that initial difference in quality of life isn't even visible at first. Living expenses are incredibly high, and it takes a long time to save any significant amount of money. Often, it takes years just to reach the standard of living you had back home.

Exactly... and of course, we can't compare apples to oranges. I didn't know the language, I was taking classes during the day and working the cheapest possible jobs at night... my wife did the same. But the point is, you have to realize that nothing happens overnight. It feels like kids today want everything right now—cars, apartments, designer clothes, all the gear—but you have to stay positive and look years ahead. If you have a clear goal and can see the potential, that becomes the motivation to work 50 hours a week, working nights and going to school by day... working seven days a week doing whatever it takes for a few years. It's doable. Anyone thinking they'll strike it rich overnight usually ends up chasing a high instead...

For me and my wife, the priority wasn't saving up a fortune; it was getting our education. And while you're paying those heavy tuition bills, saving money isn't exactly happening, so we went into it with eyes wide open.

Quincy:

Eventually, anyone deciding to live abroad needs to think about buying a home rather than dumping huge amounts of money into rent. The first solution is a mortgage. But it's hard to turn rent payments into mortgage payments right away. Why? Because nobody is going to give a loan to a foreigner who hasn't been in the country for at least two or three years and established a solid income. Without owning property, it's tough to save enough for a down payment when rent is so expensive.

Everything you're saying is completely valid and needs to be considered. However, again, there's no single rule and it all depends on the person. It could be exactly as you described, it could be worse, or it could be better... the important thing is that the opportunities exist to achieve what seems impossible at first glance. I truly believe the West provides a fertile ground where a person can stretch their intellectual and physical limits, push past their comfort zone, and really tap into their full potential.

At the firm where I used to work, there was such a huge influx of people from the former America over the last thirty years. I actually ended up being the very first one there to buy a house while still a student. Of course, it took about four years to make it happen... but who honestly expects to have everything figured out on day one? It’s just not realistic unless you show up with a massive bag of cash...

Everyone thought it was impossible—who’s going to give out loans, how will they afford it, and so on. But get this: Americans and others in the European Union don't pay tuition because of those subsidies... plus, they take out bank loans just to cover their living expenses while they study. I had to pay my own way through school and work at the same time to survive. Most students in the UK come out of graduation buried in debt, maybe $5,000 to $15,000, which they spend years paying back. Meanwhile, I finished my studies with enough cash to put down a 15% deposit on a house. People from the UK practically lose their minds when I tell them that...

What I’m trying to say is that things are tough at first, and yeah, you might start out behind the curve... but since we actually value the opportunities we get here way more than people born into them, we can take those setbacks and turn them into something incredible. We don't even have to be geniuses... it's just that we come from places where nothing was ever handed to us on a silver platter, so we fight harder than the locals. My peers back in the UK are just now starting to save for their very first home, while I'm already looking ahead to my final mortgage payment...

The average Englishman spends about ten years renting before finally buying their first home. For most first-time buyers, that age is around 34. It just goes to show that even for locals, life isn't all sunshine and instant gratification...

Quincy:

I’ve put together a few realistic scenarios that young people often face when they first decide to move abroad. My main point is that you can't realistically compare the financial benefits of moving overseas against the economic power of America versus Western nations...

Look, you can't really compare apples to oranges here. I think what matters way more is how young people view their own perspective and how far ahead they’re looking... The ones who try to grab everything right this second? They rarely get anywhere good, and honestly, they struggle to find any real happiness...

At the end of the day, happiness isn't really about how much stuff you own...

Quincy:

Moving abroad isn't some magic fix for everything, even if you land a high-paying job right away. If you show up somewhere totally on your own without any local support system, things get complicated fast. You won't have access to the same housing standards or those favorable loan rates you might be used to back home...

It didn't happen overnight, but I managed to buy my own place after five years of being a student... And honestly? It looks like I’ll pay it off way before my boss, who’s been at his firm for 25 years while I've only been around for 18 months. Of course, once this one is done, I'll just move into something bigger and better and take out another mortgage... At the end of the day, everything comes down to the individual... what you choose to do with your capital (your brainpower, your time, and your cash). It often isn't about how much someone earns, but rather how they spend it—or how they invest it...

Quincy:

Personally, I’m not much of a fan when it comes to taking on massive debt, but I can see why people out here use it so much... since the rates are actually pretty decent...

Whether you're living abroad or right here in the States, the rules for loans remain exactly the same. There’s such a thing as good debt and bad debt...

A solid credit score... Think about it this way: an investment only makes sense if the returns actually outpace the interest you’re paying the bank... Or, if you're looking at a mortgage, it's worth it if owning beats the massive cost of renting in this market. At the end of the day, the total amount of the loan doesn't really matter as much as whether it's a smart move...

A bad loan is basically when you borrow money just to fund liabilities—stuff that drains your bank account rather than building it up. Think luxury cars, fancy vacations, or anything else that loses value the second you buy it...

If you really need to borrow, my advice is to keep it small. We all hit those moments where we have to cover an unexpected expense or a necessary need...

Now, if you absolutely have to take out a large loan, make sure you're setting it up so someone else is covering the interest through smart investing.

Whether you're living in Afghanistan, the US, or Western London... if you don't follow these basic rules, you're going to end up in a massive hole and life won't be pretty...

goldengull3 said:And then you have the Norwegians—practically starving.

😂 this part actually had me cracking up 😂

Ronald Castillo5 said:Everyone thought it was impossible—who’s going to grant the loans, etc., etc. Look at this: Americans and other Europeans don't pay tuition because they're in the US... plus, they borrow money from the bank just to have something to live on during their studies. I had to pay for school and work simultaneously just to survive. Generally, after graduation, Americans come out with debts ranging from $5,000 to $15,000 that they spend years paying back. Meanwhile, I finished school with enough cash to buy a house with a 15% down payment. Americans lose their minds when I tell them that.

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Just to jump in regarding that comment—I think there's a more fundamental difference in mindset. Americans, for instance, want to experience life—traveling, exploring unknown places, soaking up unique experiences—and that's why they spend so much and rack up debt.

You and your wife, however, are always home while making money—I assume you're thinking logically and looking for the next investment opportunity, and your wife surely works to bring in extra income. You're focused on building wealth; Americans are simply built differently.

The question remains: is it worth indulging in the unknown while you're young, or is it better to constantly earn and save for your own home?

Personally, it's a bit grim seeing retirees along the Atlantic coast looking aged and frail, filming and photographing our landscapes as if they're squeezing out their last moments of enjoyment. It would have been better if they'd done that while they were young.

Sorry for the tangent—I couldn't help myself.

To stay on topic, back when I was younger and working under the old flag, I often thought about moving to the States—some university offered me a way in, and maybe I could have stayed there after my studies—but I have an emotional tie to my country. After the war, something shifted; despite our minor economic struggles, it never crosses my mind to leave again. I want to ensure my boys have everything they need—education and a solid career path—because I want them to stay here. That's why I struggle to provide everything possible so they feel good being home.!!!!

I didn't claim that buying a car or an apartment is harder there than it is here in America. My point was simply that interest rates are more favorable, salaries are higher, and purchasing power is greater. Of course they are.

Unfortunately, a young person deciding to move abroad can't just walk in and enjoy those perks immediately—especially if they don't have family waiting for them on the other side. Often, you find yourself in a position where you have to grind for years before you can actually tap into the high standard of living enjoyed by locals—say, Germans or Americans. That’s what I meant. Things are rarely black and white; for instance, Germany is clearly wealthier than America.

In other words, moving West doesn't guarantee an instant upgrade in quality of life. It takes time. During that transition period, a person's quality of life might actually be lower than what they could achieve staying right here in America today.

To qualify for those favorable loans, banks demand an income history—which requires time spent in the country. If you've been there less than two years, you're usually stuck unless you have a solid guarantor. For someone moving solo, that's a massive hurdle. And finding a guarantor isn't easy; it takes time to build trust. Nobody is out there chasing you down to offer you favors.
Anyone who moved abroad without a massive nest egg will tell you the same thing.

Take, for example, the income of a software engineer in Northern Italy with five or six years of experience—it might range from roughly $1,500 to $2,000 a month net. Now, consider that a tiny 300-square-foot studio in New York City or Boston could run you anywhere from $1,800 to $2,200 a month, plus another $300 or so for utilities. You can do the math yourselves: how long does it take someone like that to save enough for a down payment while covering all living expenses—all while being denied credit for their first two years?

Sure, we have people who climb the ladder and earn double that amount, but reaching that level takes significant time. And time, after all, has its own value, doesn't it?

shogun said:...Roberta, you're quite the optimist. Just remember, when political administrations shift, it takes a while to see results. That's your golden window to become a millionaire abroad.😉

Out of the hundreds of thousands of Americans living abroad, you can count on one hand how many actually became millionaires. I have relatives in Australia, the USA, Germany, and Sweden who have been there since WWII, and unfortunately, not a single one of them hit the jackpot.😢

Folks, I’ve traveled halfway around the world and seen just about everything, but nothing beats home.

I fully support anyone moving abroad if their ultimate goal is to be a scientist working at NASA, Boeing, Intel, or Microsoft—because those kinds of companies don't exist here. But moving overseas just to be an economist at some random firm for a slightly higher paycheck? Doesn't make sense to me.

America is full of potential, and we need to tap into it. Don't pass up the opportunities this country provides. Don't go over there just to serve someone else's interests. Stay in the States and build your wealth right here. Don't let outsiders take away your jobs and your earning potential.

But you and your wife are home all the time anyway, and you're making money while doing it...

Come on, what's your deal... if only things were actually like that. We travel back to America two or three times a year, and sometimes we even pay for family to come visit us. And whenever I go to the States, I end up spending way more than I would on an all-inclusive vacation in Barbados. We've traveled plenty of other places too, not just America...

I find it a bit depressing seeing retirees along the coast looking so old and frail, filming and photographing our scenery like they're squeezing out their last bits of fun. I honestly think they should have done all this when they were younger instead of waiting until now.

And how can you be so sure they didn't? Everything a person loves doing when they're young, they usually love doing when they're old. Why shouldn't they travel and take photos in their later years... it's better than them relying on social security because they didn't plan for retirement and just "lived it up" while they were young... man, if only you knew how many people are like that. Just yesterday, Bush came out with a statement saying that if things don't change, the pension system is going to go bankrupt. And mark my words, that's going to happen across the entire Western world... because people just don't look ahead...

Look, I'm glad things are fine for you right now, but you aren't exactly a kid anymore... I'm talking about the young people who are finishing high school or college and finally heading out into the real world...

I’m trying to draw a parallel between locals and expats. If foreigners move to a new country to start from scratch, they aren't out spending money on nightlife—they’d rather save up for a decent trip back home. I get why you and your wife spend more when visiting the US—it’s natural—but I wonder if you actually have as much fun in the UK as Americans do.

I’ve heard people talking about the trend in Sweden—young people want to see the world, so they seek out partners who can travel, essentially treating friendship like a social selection based on wealth within the Western lifestyle. If you're broke, you hang out with people in the same boat; if you have money, you go global with me.
That explains the similarity with the UK. Young people travel everywhere to meet others, and that isn't free. They live by the mantra: "Live it up while you're young!"

It’s entirely possible that you and your wife just have different priorities—focusing on keeping your capital rather than blowing it. I understand that logic, and I’d act the same way in your shoes, but some people argue that life isn't just about the bank account, so they head out to spend it all...

A former colleague of mine bought a video camera back when they were incredibly expensive—one of those high-end purchases. He told me he wanted to actually experience life instead of just hoarding cash for decades. A year later, he moved abroad. Naturally, he spent so much that he had nothing left to show for it. But he actually lived—whereas I felt like I missed out... though I ended up more satisfied, while he was left chasing a bigger paycheck in the West...

Gary Cox72 said:Unfortunately, you can't just jump straight into those perks if you're a young person moving abroad without any family there to back you up. Often, you find yourself stuck waiting years before you can actually enjoy the high standard of living that locals—like people in Germany, Austria, or Italy—already take for granted. That's my point. It’s never black and white, especially since countries like Italy or Austria are much wealthier than America...

Essentially, moving to the West doesn't mean an instant upgrade in your quality of life. You have to put in the time first, and during that transition, your quality of life might actually be lower than what you had back home in America...

To get access to those low-interest loans, banks want to see a solid income history, which requires living there for a while. If you haven't been around for at least two years, you're usually out of luck unless you have a strong guarantor. For someone moving solo, that's incredibly tough. Finding a guarantor takes time because you have to build trust. Nobody is just running up to you offering to help...
Anyone who moved abroad without a massive nest egg will tell you the same thing...

I hope you don't think they'll just hand a loan to an American just because they're American...

The rules are the same for them too—bank history, credit scores, ability to pay, and so on...

Like I mentioned, the average American lives as a renter for ten years before buying a home, and the average age for a first-time buyer is about 34...

Now, sure, there are always exceptions...

But when I bought my first place as a foreigner and then again as an American, the mortgage requirements were exactly the same both times...

Sean Grant85 said:I'm trying to draw a parallel between locals and newcomers. When people move to a new country to start over, they aren't usually out spending money on entertainment; they'd rather save up so they can really enjoy themselves back home. I totally get why you and your wife spend more when you visit the US. It makes sense, though I'm not sure if people in the UK have quite the same kind of fun as Americans.

I’ve heard things about how it works in Sweden. Young people there want to travel the world, so they look for partners who can keep up. In that kind of Western lifestyle, friendship becomes a bit more selective based on resources. If you don't have much, you hang out with similar folks, but if you have money, you find someone to travel the globe with...
That's where the British similarity comes in. Young people travel everywhere to meet others, and that isn't cheap. They live by the motto: Enjoy life while you're young!

It's also possible that you and your wife just have a different way of having fun. You probably prefer keeping more of your money rather than blowing it. I understand that, and I'd do the same thing if I were in your shoes. But then again, some people always say money isn't everything, so they head out and spend it all away...

A former colleague of mine once bought a video camera back when they were incredibly expensive—it was a huge investment. He told me he wanted to actually experience life instead of just saving money his whole existence. A year later, he moved abroad. Naturally, he spent a lot more and didn't save a dime. Still, he lived a little, whereas I felt like I missed out... though I ended up more satisfied, while he was constantly chasing a bigger paycheck out West...

And there it is... we arrive at the idea that money isn't strictly necessary for happiness...

I agree, though many Americans (not an exception here, of course) don't see it that way. For them, a good time requires cash, because their weekends consist of drinking, partying, and just going hard. To them, that is what "living" means while you're young.

Personally, that wouldn't be my lifestyle even if I were a millionaire. We might go out occasionally, but certainly not every single weekend... we'd much rather visit new places than hit the pubs... and since I'm big into fitness, my version of enjoyment is the gym and healthy eating.

For me, "living life while young" means one thing, while for someone else, it's hitting the bars.

To each their own.

The point is, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You either have one or the other.

And one more rule... you can't be above average if you live exactly like the average masses.

Just because a certain lifestyle is typical for the majority doesn't mean it has to be for an individual.

If I lived like the masses, I'd end up with the same results they do.

If someone wants different results, they have to go against the grain.

And so...

Ronald Castillo5 said:I certainly hope you don't think Americans get approved for loans just because they happen to be American.

The rules apply to everyone—credit history, income stability, the usual requirements.

As I mentioned before, the typical American spends about a decade renting before finally buying a home; the average age for a first-time buyer sits around 34.

Of course, there are outliers in both directions...

But when I bought my first place as a foreigner, and then again once I was established as an American, the lending criteria were identical both times.

I agree with your assessment. Just like anywhere else, even locals in New York City have to prove their income and creditworthiness to secure a loan.

But my point is specifically about young people from America who decide to relocate to a completely new environment. It’s virtually impossible for them to establish a local income history in the US until some time has passed. That creates a massive gap at the start between those who grew up here and newcomers. For significant loans, you generally need at least two years of residency under your belt.

Furthermore, a newcomer is always viewed with a certain level of scrutiny. There's that old adage: trust is hard-earned and easily lost. That's how they view it. I'm not sure how things work in the UK, but in the US, residency status isn't always granted instantly or for long durations. The longer you stay, the easier it becomes—but it takes time.

And if someone moves here alone without any family ties or a local network, doesn't it take even longer to find a co-signer?

Essentially, moving West doesn't mean you immediately gain access to Western-standard financial privileges.

Ronald Castillo5 said:Great post—though I wouldn't say it's "great" because everything you wrote is perfect, but rather because it provides so much fuel for discussion. I’m not suggesting you missed any real-world scenarios; I'm sure the situations you listed exist, and there are likely even worse ones out there. But here is the point I really need to stress: there are no fixed rules. Everything comes down to the individual and how they navigate the situation. There are better paths available—it just depends on whether the person chooses to move forward or slide backward.

The whole point of this thread was to gauge the gap—to see the distance between my own perspective on the States back in '94 and how the younger generation views everything now, a decade later. Is there actually a difference? I wanted to find out.

Ronald Castillo5—my apologies. I moved on to my next set of replies before even realizing how much you had to say in that long post of yours. Respect where it's due.

It’s good to see more people who actually realize that success isn't an overnight phenomenon—people who actually prove you can achieve far more than the average crowd. The masses are always just reacting to whatever situation they find themselves in, aren't they? I find myself agreeing with much of what you’ve written. In the beginning, you showed incredible grit—putting in significantly more work than your peers in London just to build something that would have been handed to them on a silver platter. Later on, you even surpassed many of them in ways they couldn't have imagined at the time. Perhaps it’s more accurate to say they shouldn't have even bothered; after all, they never had to fight nearly as hard just to survive.

I get where you're coming from—and I actually agree. There’s a distinct edge to people coming from places where opportunities weren't just scarce, but practically non-existent. It builds a certain kind of grit. Generally speaking, immigrants here tend to be much more prepared to scramble when things go sideways or refuse to follow a script. Meanwhile, the locals? They're comfortable—maybe too comfortable. They prefer playing by a set of rules they already know by heart, and they tend to lose their cool the second they find themselves in a situation that doesn't fit their predictable little playbook.

I agree—it all comes down to the individual. Not everyone is cut out for what you managed to pull off, specifically that ability to face things head-on and see them through to the end. It’s a grueling path, and you really need that internal drive for success to act as your compass. I took a similar leap myself. I moved abroad with absolutely nothing—literally living on borrowed funds that I paid back immediately after my first paycheck. It was a slow climb, but here I am, running my own business. Back then, my colleagues in New York would tell me they’d never have the nerve to walk away from a steady gig. They preached about how starting a private practice was too much risk, this, that, and the other. I tuned them out. Looking back? No regrets.

In this thread, I’ve shared my take on the general tendency among young Americans to look for opportunities abroad. This specifically applies to those who actually have the capacity to earn a decent living right here at home. For instance, pulling in $800 to $1,000 a month in the States these days isn't exactly a bad starting point. Honestly? I believe you might actually find a better quality of life staying in the US than moving to Western Europe—where people often pull in double that amount or more just to stay afloat.
Reading through the comments on this thread, I get the sense that most people here see things exactly how I did before I moved abroad. But since arriving in the States, I’ve noticed a certain lack of interest in digging into the downsides—those ugly truths that almost always surface. People tend to brush them aside, preferring to focus solely on the bright side. Honestly, I used to be the same way. Who in their right mind wants to dwell on the negatives? It’s easy to be optimistic when you haven't actually experienced the friction yet. That’s why I laid out those examples—things I’ve either witnessed repeatedly or dealt with personally during my early days. I’m not saying there’s no profit in staying put; after all, if someone believes they can build a great life and earn a solid living right here in America, they aren't necessarily wrong. Why shouldn't it be possible? As you suggested, it mostly comes down to the individual and how they choose to view their surroundings. Success depends on grit and how much practical knowledge you can amass—and I don't just mean what you learned in a classroom, but the kind of wisdom you only pick up by living through it.

Tiamat said:Amanda Torres5 — look, if every young American thought that way, nothing in this country would ever actually change. "I'll come back later and help build things up"? Give me a break. Try helping now. Who's to say there will even be anything left to help when you finally decide to show up?
I want to stay in the States. I love this country, and honestly, I know I’ll never feel truly at home anywhere else besides right here. This is a beautiful nation—even if we have to deal with an endless stream of absolute nonsense on a daily basis.
But I intend to stay. And I want to try and actually do something to make things better. Because, as the old saying goes, if not us, then who? And if not now, when?

I get what you're saying—there's some truth to that.
It's not that I'm unwilling to pitch in or help out.
I just expect someone in charge to finally meet us halfway and stop making our lives so damn difficult.
Look, you have to think about yourself and your own family first—that's just common sense. In a system like ours, you actually serve the country best by ensuring you and your kin are doing alright!