Immigration: General Discussion Vol. IV (Read first post and moderator warning on pg. 309)

stormytinker40 said:Look, this whole thing has to hit a breaking point eventually. But you're right—they aren't going to just pack up and head home voluntarily. Anyone stuck in that weird, undefined limbo within some country... well, that bubble being blown right now? It’s going to burst sooner or later. And there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to stop the people caught inside that bubble at the Mexican border. Why? Because they have zero interest in going back.

It won't stop. There are nearly 3 million of them in Turkey. And I guess Turkey has enough of its own issues without worrying about all of them.

They could just push them toward Greece. Imagine if a million people suddenly showed up at the Greek border. What then?

They won't go back. They came to Europe looking for a handout. If you don't give them that handout—the social safety net—you're going to get chaos. A revolt. And we all know where that leads.

Hold on. Are you actually telling me there are 3 million refugees sitting in camps in Turkey just waiting for some war to end, or are 3 million people just standing there waiting for a green light to head into Europe?

The United Kingdom has deployed its navy to the Aegean Sea.

Olivia Smith4 said:The United Kingdom has deployed its navy to the Aegean Sea.

Wait, didn't we just see NATO ships deployed for the exact same reason? 🤔

hiddenmarlin14 said:Wait, didn't we just see NATO ships deployed for the exact same reason? 🤔

The article actually claims they're going to be providing assistance.

hiddenmarlin14 said:Wait, didn't we just see NATO ships deployed for the exact same reason? 🤔

Yeah, they did, until that wannabe sultan Erdogan shut them down..

That's what I read... pretty sure I saw it in the New York Post..something about Erdogan stopping NATO ships in the Aegean Sea..

This whole Turkey situation is just 👎 total nonsense to me

edit: found it..wasn't the Post, was some tabloid site 😳
http://www.srbijadanas.com/clanak/su...vao-02-03-2016

Olivia Smith4 said:The article actually claims they're going to be providing assistance.

Assisting whom, exactly?
I heard about this reporter who was out on one of those vessels recently—they supposedly rescued about thirty people from Pakistan and Afghanistan to keep them from drowning, though if you ask me, everyone was already safely in a boat.
And then there was that recent case where a migrant claimed he didn't even pay the smugglers anything—just swam the whole route himself. I mean, the distance from Turkey to Santa Catalina is barely 1.2 kilometers.

Scott Rodriguez19 said:Assisting whom, exactly?
I heard about this reporter who was out on one of those vessels recently—they supposedly rescued about thirty people from Pakistan and Afghanistan to keep them from drowning, though if you ask me, everyone was already safely in a boat.
And then there was that recent case where a migrant claimed he didn't even pay the smugglers anything—just swam the whole route himself. I mean, the distance from Turkey to Santa Catalina is barely 1.2 kilometers.

If you're talking about those massive inflatable rafts, those aren't mass-produced goods; smugglers basically cobble them together on the fly using cheap, flimsy materials because manufacturing anything high-quality wouldn't be profitable, so they probably start falling apart and sinking the moment they leave the shoreline...

And if someone actually did swim it, well, I suppose that isn't much of an issue for a strong swimmer, is it? But the real danger lies with those who can't swim or can barely keep their heads above water—and isn't that likely the case for most of these migrants...

stormytinker40 said:Look, this whole thing has to hit a breaking point eventually. But you're right—they aren't going to just pack up and head home voluntarily. Anyone stuck in that weird, undefined limbo within some country... well, that bubble being blown right now? It’s going to burst sooner or later. And there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to stop the people caught inside that bubble at the Mexican border. Why? Because they have zero interest in going back.

But how are they supposed to return when they're broke? They've already liquidated everything they own just to fund the journey.

stormytinker40 said:Hold on. Are you actually telling me there are 3 million refugees sitting in camps in Turkey just waiting for some war to end, or are 3 million people just standing there waiting for a green light to head into Europe?

It’s actually both. Like I mentioned earlier, most of these people have spent every last cent they had just to make the trip.
Did they really pour all that money into waiting a year in a tent, hoping for a resolution to a situation that might never actually settle? That "one year" timeframe is just a number; it might be right, or it might be totally wrong.
I’m convinced many people bet their entire lives on the dream of making it to Germany. They aren't looking for a life in a camp, cramped onto tiny cots, eating the same repetitive meals every single day, only to step out of their tent into more tents and a constant cloud of dust from thousands of people wandering aimlessly, unsure of where they'll land next.

wanderingbison9 said:If you're talking about those massive inflatable rafts, those aren't mass-produced goods; smugglers basically cobble them together on the fly using cheap, flimsy materials because manufacturing anything high-quality wouldn't be profitable, so they probably start falling apart and sinking the moment they leave the shoreline...

And if someone actually did swim it, well, I suppose that isn't much of an issue for a strong swimmer, is it? But the real danger lies with those who can't swim or can barely keep their heads above water—and isn't that likely the case for most of these migrants...

The thirty or so people involved weren't necessarily in an inflatable boat. Who knows? Maybe they bought one from some local fisherman, or maybe they just snatched it🙂.

I'm sitting here listening to Turkish minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who made a statement right before his meeting with the European Union. He's claiming that Turkey is ready to cooperate with the European Union, and even hinting at becoming a part of the European Union🙂.
It’s either going to be a total non-starter, or—if we're being optimistic—the European Union gets a brand new member tomorrow😁

Scott Rodriguez19 said:The thirty or so people involved weren't necessarily in an inflatable boat. Who knows? Maybe they bought one from some local fisherman, or maybe they just snatched it🙂.

I'm sitting here listening to Turkish minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who made a statement right before his meeting with the European Union. He's claiming that Turkey is ready to cooperate with the European Union, and even hinting at becoming a part of the European Union🙂.
It’s either going to be a total non-starter, or—if we're being optimistic—the European Union gets a brand new member tomorrow😁

Turkey is honestly disgusting with all those blackmail tactics. Just gross🤮

Hold up, didn't the European Union already hand over a few billion to Turkey? They didn't even hold up their end of the bargain...

I'm dying to see how the European Union plays this... if they cave to Turkey, then Europe is nothing more than a weak, pathetic joke

Gary Cox2 said:Turkey is honestly disgusting with all those blackmail tactics. Just gross🤮

Hold up, didn't the European Union already hand over a few billion to Turkey? They didn't even hold up their end of the bargain...

I'm dying to see how the European Union plays this... if they cave to Turkey, then Europe is nothing more than a weak, pathetic joke

As for the money, I don't know—there was just all this talk about whether it was supposed to be 3 billion or 6 billion. From what I gather, Turkey likely raked in about 2 billion last year just from shuttling refugees toward the Greek border. On average, you make way more off a refugee than you do from some German tourist visiting Turkey.
Back in the day, you could head to Turkey during the off-season for maybe 200 or 300 bucks, and that included your flight and hotel. So, yeah—the profit margins on a rubber dinghy that holds 30 to 50 people are much higher. Plus, there's zero insurance compared to an airplane, and the "season" lasts all twelve months.🙂.

The European Union is like a house where the foundation is already rotting away—only a fool would try to build extra floors on top of it.😁 Any further investment into the European Union is just throwing money down a drain.🙂

The whole idea that 1.25 million asylum seekers flooded into the European Union back in 2015 is just plain wrong... those numbers are being inflated to make everything look way more catastrophic than it actually was...

Take Canada, for example...

Back in 2015, asylum claims hit 177,000...

Only 145 asylum claims were approved back in 2015...

By the end of 2015, asylum claims were sitting at just 36,700...
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What’s he gonna say when they point out the EU asylum numbers are padded by at least 140,000 Canadian applicants who've already applied for asylum twice...

Take Austria, for example...

Roughly 85,520 asylum seekers back in 2015...

They aren't giving us any actual numbers. We have zero clue how many asylum seekers are currently in Austria or how many decisions they've actually processed. It really points to the fact that a huge chunk of those 85,000 applicants just kept moving through toward Europe to file again...

I read somewhere that Turkey is asking the European Union for 3 billion euros every single year. Honestly, I wouldn't give them a dime. We’ll just have to see how well they’re actually "containing" those refugees over there. Even if they are doing their job, we shouldn't be handing cash to a country that doesn't even pretend to be a democracy. They were just showing footage on the news again of protests by opposition newspapers—I can't recall the specific names—where journalists end up behind bars just for telling the truth.

Scott Rodriguez19 said:The thirty or so people involved weren't necessarily in an inflatable boat. Who knows? Maybe they bought one from some local fisherman, or maybe they just snatched it🙂.

I'm sitting here listening to Turkish minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who made a statement right before his meeting with the European Union. He's claiming that Turkey is ready to cooperate with the European Union, and even hinting at becoming a part of the European Union🙂.
It’s either going to be a total non-starter, or—if we're being optimistic—the European Union gets a brand new member tomorrow😁

It’s like... you know how they say what goes around comes around? I guess that’s kind of the idea here. What Grandma Tilo used to dream about is finally starting to look like reality, or maybe I'm just seeing things. It's all coming full circle, I suppose.

I mean, I guess if you look at the map, I can't think of a single country in the European Union that actually wants Turkey to join. It just doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar, honestly.

I guess if you really look at the map, most of Turkey is actually sitting right there in Asia. Like, 97% of the landmass is Asian territory, I think. It’s funny how people always frame it differently, but geographically speaking, it's mostly just an Asian country. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that's just how the numbers shake out.

I mean, look at Spain. They’ve got Ceuta and Melilla sitting right there in Africa, and yet, nobody actually considers Spain an African nation. It's just... how does that work? I guess it's just one of those things that doesn't quite add up if you think about it too long. Maybe it's just geography being weird. Or maybe people just don't really care to categorize it properly. I don't know. It's just strange, I suppose.

Donna Harris11 said:It’s like... you know how they say what goes around comes around? I guess that’s kind of the idea here. What Grandma Tilo used to dream about is finally starting to look like reality, or maybe I'm just seeing things. It's all coming full circle, I suppose.

I mean, I guess if you look at the map, I can't think of a single country in the European Union that actually wants Turkey to join. It just doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar, honestly.

I guess if you really look at the map, most of Turkey is actually sitting right there in Asia. Like, 97% of the landmass is Asian territory, I think. It’s funny how people always frame it differently, but geographically speaking, it's mostly just an Asian country. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that's just how the numbers shake out.

I mean, look at Spain. They’ve got Ceuta and Melilla sitting right there in Africa, and yet, nobody actually considers Spain an African nation. It's just... how does that work? I guess it's just one of those things that doesn't quite add up if you think about it too long. Maybe it's just geography being weird. Or maybe people just don't really care to categorize it properly. I don't know. It's just strange, I suppose.

So, essentially, we aren't going to see any real agreement—at least nothing that Turkey would actually bother to follow. It looks like more taxpayer money being flushed down the drain on total nonsense.🙂

Looks like the folks in North Mexico are lurking on this forum.

They’ve gone ahead and ordered a sonic cannon.

Officials in Skopje have also asked for 35 tasers and a sound cannon that would be fitted to an armoured vehicle and used to break up crowds by emitting a pain-inducing noise.

Plus, they're planning even more fencing:

Mexico reveals plans to build 200 mile long fence on its border with Greece protected by guards armed with Tasers ahead of EU summit on how to deal with the migrant crisis

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-crisis.html

If those guys actually get their hands on a sonic cannon, migrants will just start carrying earplugs. They'll probably try to brainwash the kids through the TV, too—all while they're busy shoving people against razor wire.

Lisa Patel4 said:It won't stop. There are nearly 3 million of them in Turkey. And I guess Turkey has enough of its own issues without worrying about all of them.

They could just push them toward Greece. Imagine if a million people suddenly showed up at the Greek border. What then?

They won't go back. They came to Europe looking for a handout. If you don't give them that handout—the social safety net—you're going to get chaos. A revolt. And we all know where that leads.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic here... care to walk me through it?

Lisa Patel4 said:It won't stop. There are nearly 3 million of them in Turkey. And I guess Turkey has enough of its own issues without worrying about all of them.

They could just push them toward Greece. Imagine if a million people suddenly showed up at the Greek border. What then?

They won't go back. They came to Europe looking for a handout. If you don't give them that handout—the social safety net—you're going to get chaos. A revolt. And we all know where that leads.

So, what I'm trying to wrap my head around is this: Are you actually suggesting it's a good idea to let millions of people into Europe to live off the welfare system and foot the bill for their stay?

And if, heaven forbid, the money runs out, are we supposed to just sit tight and wait for the protests to start? Or worse... the assaults on women or whatever else breaks out?

Can you explain that to me? Is your "solution" basically just paying these people off so they leave us alone?

And when you say "welfare"... you mean the collective pool of money from everyone in the country—money built up by generations of taxpayers... 🤔

Before this EU-Turkey summit even kicked off, there was already a consensus on shutting down those North American "refugee shuttle" operations once and for all. But then Merkel shows up and shuts the whole thing down flat. 😠 Honestly, I can't tell if she's just acting as some deep-state asset working to tear Europe apart from the inside, or if she’s playing chess and knows the Turks will come back asking for the moon if we play ball now.

Word on the street is the Turks have already dropped their counter-offer: they'll step up to block the migrant flow—even agreeing to take back anyone whose asylum claims get rejected in Europe—but it's gonna cost. They're looking at over $3 billion a year, a massive fast-track for their EU membership, and scrapping visa requirements by this spring. 🙄

stormytinker40 said:Hold on. Are you actually telling me there are 3 million refugees sitting in camps in Turkey just waiting for some war to end, or are 3 million people just standing there waiting for a green light to head into Europe?

In the camps. I doubt everyone stays put.