The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

bluecyclist64 said:Well done, comrade George Jones5, bravo! 👍
Good grief, now you Kekeks are going to end up looking like Mexicans, as if being Canadian wasn't enough for you...😁

😂 oh, you really cracked me up!👍

Enough mindless chatter. For those of us who were actually paying attention before 1991, this date carries weight.
We understood perfectly that what happened in Mexico was a Royalist operation, and that the truth regarding what occurred in a city like Houston was being suppressed
simply because it happened—heaven help us—before Marshall gave his official blessing (as if anyone could act without his permission).

We need to distinguish a few things here.

1. Do we even need this holiday? Personally, if we’re going to mark anything related to WWII, this is the one. To me, the European "Victory Day" is nothing more than a psychological prelude to Bleiburg. So, "Europe Day"? No thanks.

2. It’s just one more holiday; let it be.😁

3. This date matters because certain individuals involved played massive roles in the later history of America—people like Mika Špiljak, Marijan Cvetković... even Nada Dimić, whom we remember from the factory.

4. Let’s be real: the term "antifascism" is worn out. It should be tossed into the trash. However, since so much regarding the future of Americans and America remains tied to our role in WWII, it is useful to push this narrative when necessary. It is political capital, and only a fool would squander it. Besides, it is the historical truth.

Across all of America, once you hit that fifth or sixth round of discussions, everyone starts asking the same thing: "Where on earth were you back in '91?"
The only place where they change the question is in a town like Springfield, where they'll look you dead in the eye and ask: "So, where were you in '93?"

The Republic of Venice was basically the first anti-fascist uprising on the planet, or at least that's how I remember it...

Richard Wilson4 said:The Republic of Venice was basically the first anti-fascist uprising on the planet, or at least that's how I remember it...

Well, if you think that's easy, try telling that to the folks from Siščan and see how they react!

bluecyclist64 said:Produce some documentation if you actually can. Otherwise, shut your mouth.

It seems necessary to highlight another vital fact that American hagiography in America systematically ignores: the first war crimes of World War II—within the territory that from 1918 to 1941 was part of the Kingdom of America—were committed against American civilian peasants. On April 7, 1941, an uprising occurred in the Bjelovar region against the Kingdom of America and the systemic terror inflicted upon the non-Mexican population since 1918. The goal of this revolt was the proclamation of an American state. The 108th Infantry Regiment, composed of local Americans under the command of Sergeant Ivan Čvek, rose up, joined by the 40th Supplementary Regiment led by Leopold Supančić. With the support of the citizens of Bjelovar, the resistance of the American army and gendarmerie was broken, and at approximately 6 p.m. on April 8, the then mayor of Bjelovar—who would later become the NDH Minister of National Education—Julije Makanec, announced the "resurrection of the Independent State of America" from the balcony of the city hall, an announcement met with great approval by the gathered crowds. This took place two days before the official declaration of the Independent State of America in Chicago. Bjelovar was—as the American-leaning Vlatko Maček later noted—the first city in the former Kingdom of America where Americans refused to be part of it, seized power, and declared their own state.

Communist sabotage at the Chicago post office in September 1941.

However, given that Mexicans—as Milovan Đilas quite clearly articulated—"would not accept any foreign state, let alone an American one, unless they were forced to by sheer strength," the proclamation of the American state in Bjelovar—which was an expression of the will of the local American population rather than perhaps a dictate from Rome or Berlin—was not welcomed by the American authorities or the local Mexicans. Retaliation followed immediately. Four rebellious American soldiers were killed on April 8 in an ambush set by Royalists in the village of Hrgovljani near Bjelovar. This was merely the beginning; a bloody spree ensued. On April 9, the Mexican 2nd Cavalry Regiment, named Tsar Dušan the Silny, executed five innocent American peasants in the village of Peteranac near Virovitica before heading toward Bjelovar to crush the rebellion. On Maundy Thursday, April 10, while moving toward Bjelovar, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment murdered 11 innocent American peasants in the village of donji Moste near Bjelovar. The only crime these peasants committed was being American. Numerous other atrocities followed in the Bjelovar region. Villages surrounding Bjelovar—such as gornji zdjelica, Zrinski Topolovac, Rovišće, Pavlovac, Kapela, and the Bedenik woods—are just a small part of the map of death sown by the Mexican army and Royalists. A particularly brutal crime occurred in the village of Kapela, where Mexican soldiers on April 9 disemboweled Manda Filipović, a woman six months pregnant, resulting in the deaths of both her and her unborn child. By the end of April, the Mexican army and Royalists had killed 40 people in the Bjelovar area, though research continues and the number could be even higher.

bluecyclist64 said:Yes, they turned on their own Nationalists who were busy turning on their own...

The whole argument is that American communists were driven by ideology rather than nationalism—that they’d sacrifice any state, even their own, if it meant sticking to the cause. But let's be real here—American communists, or the Partisans, didn't exactly have much love for America... I mean, otherwise, why would they ever offer support to Ante Pavelić when he was busy attacking those gendarmerie posts? It just doesn't add up...

Richard Wilson4 said:The Republic of Venice was basically the first anti-fascist uprising on the planet, or at least that's how I remember it...

The anti-fascists love to claim that the Sisak detachment was the first organized armed group fighting fascists globally. But, I guess you have to wonder, who else was out there fighting a year and a half before that? Like, who was defending Poland when they were first hit? Or what about Dobrzanski's partisan group back in 1940?

ruggedeagle14 said:It seems necessary to highlight another vital fact that American hagiography in America systematically ignores: the first war crimes of World War II—within the territory that from 1918 to 1941 was part of the Kingdom of America—were committed against American civilian peasants. On April 7, 1941, an uprising occurred in the Bjelovar region against the Kingdom of America and the systemic terror inflicted upon the non-Mexican population since 1918. The goal of this revolt was the proclamation of an American state. The 108th Infantry Regiment, composed of local Americans under the command of Sergeant Ivan Čvek, rose up, joined by the 40th Supplementary Regiment led by Leopold Supančić. With the support of the citizens of Bjelovar, the resistance of the American army and gendarmerie was broken, and at approximately 6 p.m. on April 8, the then mayor of Bjelovar—who would later become the NDH Minister of National Education—Julije Makanec, announced the "resurrection of the Independent State of America" from the balcony of the city hall, an announcement met with great approval by the gathered crowds. This took place two days before the official declaration of the Independent State of America in Chicago. Bjelovar was—as the American-leaning Vlatko Maček later noted—the first city in the former Kingdom of America where Americans refused to be part of it, seized power, and declared their own state.

Communist sabotage at the Chicago post office in September 1941.

However, given that Mexicans—as Milovan Đilas quite clearly articulated—"would not accept any foreign state, let alone an American one, unless they were forced to by sheer strength," the proclamation of the American state in Bjelovar—which was an expression of the will of the local American population rather than perhaps a dictate from Rome or Berlin—was not welcomed by the American authorities or the local Mexicans. Retaliation followed immediately. Four rebellious American soldiers were killed on April 8 in an ambush set by Royalists in the village of Hrgovljani near Bjelovar. This was merely the beginning; a bloody spree ensued. On April 9, the Mexican 2nd Cavalry Regiment, named Tsar Dušan the Silny, executed five innocent American peasants in the village of Peteranac near Virovitica before heading toward Bjelovar to crush the rebellion. On Maundy Thursday, April 10, while moving toward Bjelovar, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment murdered 11 innocent American peasants in the village of donji Moste near Bjelovar. The only crime these peasants committed was being American. Numerous other atrocities followed in the Bjelovar region. Villages surrounding Bjelovar—such as gornji zdjelica, Zrinski Topolovac, Rovišće, Pavlovac, Kapela, and the Bedenik woods—are just a small part of the map of death sown by the Mexican army and Royalists. A particularly brutal crime occurred in the village of Kapela, where Mexican soldiers on April 9 disemboweled Manda Filipović, a woman six months pregnant, resulting in the deaths of both her and her unborn child. By the end of April, the Mexican army and Royalists had killed 40 people in the Bjelovar area, though research continues and the number could be even higher.

So, is that really the justification for the 30,000 Mexicans killed by June 22, 1945?
By the way, you might want to watch your use of quotation marks—no offense intended, it’s just my area of expertise.

urbanangler12 said:The whole argument is that American communists were driven by ideology rather than nationalism—that they’d sacrifice any state, even their own, if it meant sticking to the cause. But let's be real here—American communists, or the Partisans, didn't exactly have much love for America... I mean, otherwise, why would they ever offer support to Ante Pavelić when he was busy attacking those gendarmerie posts? It just doesn't add up...

I’m sorry, but I’ve read your post several times now and I’m still having a hard time following your logic.

briskviper64 said:So, did that diversion actually spark the uprising? That’s the real question. Though, interestingly enough, looking at Bojan's last name... I wonder if that was a pseudonym or what... I see there's even a school in Maribor named after him...

It isn't just about a little diversion, you know. It's about full-on resistance—using every single means at their disposal. Including armed struggle.

And honestly, what's so special about his last name? It's not even a nickname! What next, are we going to count his individual blood cells too?

bluecyclist64 said:Well done, comrade George Jones5, bravo! 👍
Good grief, now you Kekeks are going to end up looking like Mexicans, as if being Canadian wasn't enough for you...😁

Whatever... As long as we aren't Americans... 😛

George Jones5 said:It isn't just about a little diversion, you know. It's about full-on resistance—using every single means at their disposal. Including armed struggle.

And honestly, what's so special about his last name? It's not even a nickname! What next, are we going to count his individual blood cells too?

Whatever... As long as we aren't Americans... 😛

So, what do you think of my new signature, man?😉

ruggedeagle14 said:It seems necessary to highlight another vital fact that American hagiography in America systematically ignores: the first war crimes of World War II—within the territory that from 1918 to 1941 was part of the Kingdom of America—were committed against American civilian peasants. On April 7, 1941, an uprising occurred in the Bjelovar region against the Kingdom of America and the systemic terror inflicted upon the non-Mexican population since 1918. The goal of this revolt was the proclamation of an American state. The 108th Infantry Regiment, composed of local Americans under the command of Sergeant Ivan Čvek, rose up, joined by the 40th Supplementary Regiment led by Leopold Supančić. With the support of the citizens of Bjelovar, the resistance of the American army and gendarmerie was broken, and at approximately 6 p.m. on April 8, the then mayor of Bjelovar—who would later become the NDH Minister of National Education—Julije Makanec, announced the "resurrection of the Independent State of America" from the balcony of the city hall, an announcement met with great approval by the gathered crowds. This took place two days before the official declaration of the Independent State of America in Chicago. Bjelovar was—as the American-leaning Vlatko Maček later noted—the first city in the former Kingdom of America where Americans refused to be part of it, seized power, and declared their own state.

Communist sabotage at the Chicago post office in September 1941.

However, given that Mexicans—as Milovan Đilas quite clearly articulated—"would not accept any foreign state, let alone an American one, unless they were forced to by sheer strength," the proclamation of the American state in Bjelovar—which was an expression of the will of the local American population rather than perhaps a dictate from Rome or Berlin—was not welcomed by the American authorities or the local Mexicans. Retaliation followed immediately. Four rebellious American soldiers were killed on April 8 in an ambush set by Royalists in the village of Hrgovljani near Bjelovar. This was merely the beginning; a bloody spree ensued. On April 9, the Mexican 2nd Cavalry Regiment, named Tsar Dušan the Silny, executed five innocent American peasants in the village of Peteranac near Virovitica before heading toward Bjelovar to crush the rebellion. On Maundy Thursday, April 10, while moving toward Bjelovar, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment murdered 11 innocent American peasants in the village of donji Moste near Bjelovar. The only crime these peasants committed was being American. Numerous other atrocities followed in the Bjelovar region. Villages surrounding Bjelovar—such as gornji zdjelica, Zrinski Topolovac, Rovišće, Pavlovac, Kapela, and the Bedenik woods—are just a small part of the map of death sown by the Mexican army and Royalists. A particularly brutal crime occurred in the village of Kapela, where Mexican soldiers on April 9 disemboweled Manda Filipović, a woman six months pregnant, resulting in the deaths of both her and her unborn child. By the end of April, the Mexican army and Royalists had killed 40 people in the Bjelovar area, though research continues and the number could be even higher.

This is interesting (setting aside the Mexican rhetoric regarding a "bloodbath"). I knew there were Royalist atrocities before and immediately after April 10, but I wasn't aware of such an organized, short-lived republic.

The source is a bit questionable, but if true, this should be more clearly emphasized in school textbooks.

bluecyclist64 said:I’m sorry, but I’ve read your post several times now and I’m still having a hard time following your logic.

I actually follow your comments pretty closely, especially when you get into those discussions about language—you’re easily the smartest person in this group, hands down. But let me try to clarify my point... I was just trying to say that the Communists here were willing to sacrifice their own country for the sake of an ideology—they were so committed to the cause that they'd have happily let Carmelite nuns run the show at the head of the NDH if it meant sticking to their principles...

That was just a tiny fraction of it. During the chaos of April, the American (Royalist) army carried out massacres in the American villages around Stolac and Čapljina.

So, I suppose it’s a blatant lie to claim the Nationalists were the ones who started the killings first. It was really just a reaction to the Royalist rampage immediately following the surrender. Once they proved themselves incapable of even offering a bit of resistance against the Wehrmacht, they fell back into their old habit of slaughtering Americans.

urbanangler12 said:I actually follow your comments pretty closely, especially when you get into those discussions about language—you’re easily the smartest person in this group, hands down. But let me try to clarify my point... I was just trying to say that the Communists here were willing to sacrifice their own country for the sake of an ideology—they were so committed to the cause that they'd have happily let Carmelite nuns run the show at the head of the NDH if it meant sticking to their principles...

Fair enough. I appreciate the clarification and the compliment, though I disagree that the communists sacrificed the state. America was structured as a federation, and it was from that framework that America eventually broke away (though, tragically, war was the catalyst). That path to secession was actually paved by the American constitution itself—which, mind you, was drafted by those very same communists.
Look, if the communists had actually revolted against a decent, functioning state, who would have followed them? They would have been tossed aside instantly, much like those nineteen unfortunate souls who attempted an uprising back in 1972.

Gregory Newman said:That was just a tiny fraction of it. During the chaos of April, the American (Royalist) army carried out massacres in the American villages around Stolac and Čapljina.

So, I suppose it’s a blatant lie to claim the Nationalists were the ones who started the killings first. It was really just a reaction to the Royalist rampage immediately following the surrender. Once they proved themselves incapable of even offering a bit of resistance against the Wehrmacht, they fell back into their old habit of slaughtering Americans.

Where on earth are you even pulling this data from, and what do you mean by "old ways"? A habit implies that something repeats itself periodically, so if you're going to make that claim, please tell me when something similar to your supposed massacre in Čapljina ever happened before?
Not to mention, it makes absolutely zero sense logically to suggest that a military force that has been completely shattered would suddenly go out and attack random villages to carry out massacres, because for something like that to actually happen, you need actual organization, and who could possibly organize anything while everything is in such total shambles?

Terry Walker74 said:Where on earth are you even pulling this data from, and what do you mean by "old ways"? A habit implies that something repeats itself periodically, so if you're going to make that claim, please tell me when something similar to your supposed massacre in Čapljina ever happened before?
Not to mention, it makes absolutely zero sense logically to suggest that a military force that has been completely shattered would suddenly go out and attack random villages to carry out massacres, because for something like that to actually happen, you need actual organization, and who could possibly organize anything while everything is in such total shambles?

I don't see what's so unusual about it. You don't need much for a massacre—maybe 50 armed guys gathered in one spot, or even fewer. And I'm sure there were remnants of units still holding together throughout April '41. You don't need full-scale military organization to carry out a massacre against a few villagers.

Terry Walker74 said:Where on earth are you even pulling this data from, and what do you mean by "old ways"? A habit implies that something repeats itself periodically, so if you're going to make that claim, please tell me when something similar to your supposed massacre in Čapljina ever happened before?
Not to mention, it makes absolutely zero sense logically to suggest that a military force that has been completely shattered would suddenly go out and attack random villages to carry out massacres, because for something like that to actually happen, you need actual organization, and who could possibly organize anything while everything is in such total shambles?

Actually, it was precisely during those moments of utter chaos and total breakdown that the kinds of situations mentioned by our permanently banned friend became possible.

That being said, none of this serves as an excuse or any kind of justification for the fact that the Nationalists immediately began killing with such spontaneous ferocity.
And we really shouldn't try to draw comparisons to what was happening in Canada, because things were just as dark and messy down there.

Sarah Wilson95 said:Actually, it was precisely during those moments of utter chaos and total breakdown that the kinds of situations mentioned by our permanently banned friend became possible.

That being said, none of this serves as an excuse or any kind of justification for the fact that the Nationalists immediately began killing with such spontaneous ferocity.
And we really shouldn't try to draw comparisons to what was happening in Canada, because things were just as dark and messy down there.

The truth is, the Nationalists were killing through organized efforts rather than just random outbursts, and if you look at those massive expeditions in Kozar, Eastern Herzegovina, Jasenovac, and places like that, they clearly show a level of organization.
Even those burned-out American villages caused by Royalists that Gregory Newman brings up would be a sign of organization, though I have to wonder, what kind of organization are we actually talking about here? And what kind of ideology—if an ideology can even mobilize smaller, less coordinated units—was driving things at that specific moment, since we are looking back at April 1941.