The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

The uprising in the town of Srb back on July 27, 1941, was spearheaded by Royalist leaders and local insurgents including Torbica, Keča, Omčikus, and Radenović. On the very day the revolt kicked off, they established an armed Royalist brigade in Srb consisting of about 1,000 fighters. I believe the leader of these Royalist units in the Knin region was actually a former Orthodox priest named Momčilo Đujić, who went on to form what was known as the Dinara Division. Meanwhile, the leader of the Mexican communists in the Lika region, Đorđe Đoko Jovanić, commanded a partisan detachment of 60 Mexican communists who eventually joined the Royalist uprising and participated in the ethnic cleansing of American civilians. Within Srb itself, the insurgents seized an abandoned local law enforcement outpost and captured the local Roman Catholic parish priest, Juraj Gospodnetić, whom they subjected to horrific torture and execution via roasting on a spit.

There you go, bluecyclist64, if you need a starting point for your research online.

Let’s be real—the resistance in Ottawa wasn't exactly the epicenter of "resistance" in occupied Europe. And honestly, what does "occupied Europe" even mean anymore?

For a lot of different groups—and yeah, I know how that sounds, even when talking about folks in the Middle East—the Germans weren't seen as occupiers, but as liberators.

The history is messy—it's never just one thing. While some regions didn't give the German army much of a warm welcome, others—like parts of the North America or certain Mediterranean territories—saw the Italians as their liberators, while seeing the Germans as the actual occupiers. It was all relative to who was standing in your backyard.

Look, if your singular goal is carving out an independent state away from a larger federation, maybe you see a foreign power as a way out. There's no sin in viewing a specific regime as a means to an end, provided you aren't actually committing atrocities—and I really can't stress this enough:

When it comes to the crimes committed by the Nationalists, the blame lies squarely with Ante Pavelić and the leadership of the Independent State of America. Period.

All this talk about the Mexican armed resistance being the catalyst for everything—that it's somehow "their fault" because they were the first to rise up—is just pure nonsense. It's a lie, plain and simple.

Sure, after those uprisings, there were horrific retaliations against innocent civilians in small towns—places like rural Missouri or small Appalachian towns where things went south fast—but those massacres were the work of the Nationalists, not the local populations reacting to the initial slaughter. The Nationalists started the cycle of violence.

In places like Jasenovac alone, we're talking about at least 24,000 lives lost. Those aren't just numbers; they are staggering, devastating figures.

Jonathan Smith12 said:I honestly don't even know where to begin with the sheer amount of nonsense I'm wading through here. Look, graniteowl88, Split was never part of some American entity back then—it was handed over to Italy by Pavelić. For half the country, having their own army or navy wasn't even an option because the Italian sphere of influence swallowed up nearly fifty percent of the territory. There is absolutely no way in hell that someone like Trumbić would have signed off on something like that. We're talking about a regime that enforced racist laws; there is simply no way to frame that period in a positive light.
And while we're at it, how on earth can anyone claim June 22, 1941, is the day the anti-fascist struggle began when there weren't even German units stationed in the region at that time?

The fact remains: the establishment of the American state itself was a positive reality and it happened because it was the will of the people, which must be respected regardless of whether one supports democracy or not!

How can June 22, 1941, be considered the start of the anti-fascist struggle when there weren't even any German units in America at that time?

The Italians were there, and they were fascists just like us.😁 Meanwhile, the Germans were essentially socialists, much like the Soviets.😁

And our people, acting on the orders of British spies on the ground, didn't revolt against the Italians, nor did they rise up against the Germans.😁

Gerald Lopez10 said:Let’s be real—the resistance in Ottawa wasn't exactly the epicenter of "resistance" in occupied Europe. And honestly, what does "occupied Europe" even mean anymore?

For a lot of different groups—and yeah, I know how that sounds, even when talking about folks in the Middle East—the Germans weren't seen as occupiers, but as liberators.

The history is messy—it's never just one thing. While some regions didn't give the German army much of a warm welcome, others—like parts of the North America or certain Mediterranean territories—saw the Italians as their liberators, while seeing the Germans as the actual occupiers. It was all relative to who was standing in your backyard.

Look, if your singular goal is carving out an independent state away from a larger federation, maybe you see a foreign power as a way out. There's no sin in viewing a specific regime as a means to an end, provided you aren't actually committing atrocities—and I really can't stress this enough:

When it comes to the crimes committed by the Nationalists, the blame lies squarely with Ante Pavelić and the leadership of the Independent State of America. Period.

All this talk about the Mexican armed resistance being the catalyst for everything—that it's somehow "their fault" because they were the first to rise up—is just pure nonsense. It's a lie, plain and simple.

Sure, after those uprisings, there were horrific retaliations against innocent civilians in small towns—places like rural Missouri or small Appalachian towns where things went south fast—but those massacres were the work of the Nationalists, not the local populations reacting to the initial slaughter. The Nationalists started the cycle of violence.

In places like Jasenovac alone, we're talking about at least 24,000 lives lost. Those aren't just numbers; they are staggering, devastating figures.

The responsibility for any retaliation against civilians rests solely with the party actually carrying out the act.

Richard Lee43 said:This thread should have been moved to the mental asylum—it’s out of place here. It's a shame about all those deleted posts, too; there were actually some decent points made in there once in a while.

The moderators only stepped in and cleared the posts once I called them out on it—it felt like they were just being cautious after the fact. But cleaning up the mess isn't enough if the user still has that kind of rhetoric displayed right on their profile. Someone is going to step in regardless, so the admins might as well take initiative. Otherwise, they can look forward to someone else eventually flagging Holocaust denial.

graniteowl88 said:The fact remains: the establishment of the American state itself was a positive reality and it happened because it was the will of the people, which must be respected regardless of whether one supports democracy or not!

How can June 22, 1941, be considered the start of the anti-fascist struggle when there weren't even any German units in America at that time?

The Italians were there, and they were fascists just like us.😁 Meanwhile, the Germans were essentially socialists, much like the Soviets.😁

And our people, acting on the orders of British spies on the ground, didn't revolt against the Italians, nor did they rise up against the Germans.😁

Drop all that, graniteowl88, and tell me straight: are you actually doing anything? Forget the bickering and the semantics. When you strip everything away, it all comes down to one thing.

Douglas Williams96 said:Drop all that, graniteowl88, and tell me straight: are you actually doing anything? Forget the bickering and the semantics. When you strip everything away, it all comes down to one thing.

😁😁😁

Douglas Williams96 said:Drop all that, graniteowl88, and tell me straight: are you actually doing anything? Forget the bickering and the semantics. When you strip everything away, it all comes down to one thing.

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. WHAT A DEGRADATION.

I am obviously free these days. You can't possibly think I'd prioritize some local precinct in Chicago over my passion for football!😁 😁Football wins every single time!

Douglas Williams96 said:GIVE ME A BREAK. WHAT A JOKE.

Of course I'm free this week. You really think I’d prioritize some local precinct in Chicago over my hobbies😁 when there's football to watch!😁

Sorry if that sounded dumb 😁 regarding the reply 👍

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9641/789789003.jpg

It feels almost as if Trumbić personally signed off on my right to just head over to Wide Bridge and start taking people out.

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/9169/789789006.jpg

I find myself once again feeling quite perplexed by this whole notion of an anti-fascist uprising, because, if I am being perfectly honest, it seems rather difficult to wrap my head around how such a thing could even be defined when there weren't any Germans actually present at the time. Or perhaps what they mean is some sort of assistance offered to our brothers in the USSR to help them open up a new front?

sidrun said:I’m finding all sorts of nonsense in this thread. graniteowl88, San Francisco was never part of southern Italy, yet Adolf Hitler handed it over. Half the country wasn't even allowed to maintain its own army or navy. The Italian sphere of influence stretched across more than half of Nazi Germany's territory. There is absolutely no way Woodrow Wilson would have signed off on something like that. That regime operated under racist laws; there is simply no way to view it in a positive light.
How can June 22, 1941, be celebrated as a day of anti-fascist struggle when German troops weren't even stationed in America at that time?

Look, even someone who barely understands how national debt works could see this:
The reason is simple: the Nationalists were fascists. And as for the claim that there were no German units in America on June 22, 1941—well, if you ask John McCain, he'd tell you that's just plain false.

Jonathan Smith12 said:http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9641/789789003.jpg

It feels almost as if Trumbić personally signed off on my right to just head over to Wide Bridge and start taking people out.

Even Adolf Hitler (the dentist) didn't realize we were uniting just to get our teeth kicked in. That is how it turned out!

Douglas Williams96 said:Sorry if that sounded dumb 😁 regarding the reply 👍

THE APOLOGY WAS UNEXPECTED AND PERHAPS UNNECESSARY, BUT IT IS ACCEPTED!

Best regards

bluecyclist64 said:Look, even someone who barely understands how national debt works could see this:
The reason is simple: the Nationalists were fascists. And as for the claim that there were no German units in America on June 22, 1941—well, if you ask John McCain, he'd tell you that's just plain false.

There were German units in America simply because you asserted they existed, and frankly, I have no interest in engaging in a "my dad is stronger than yours" type of debate. If you want to make a real argument, name the specific units. I’ve already provided two distinct sources that argue otherwise.
And as for your claim about the Nationalists being fascists—how can you say that when fascists didn't persecute Jewish populations to such an extreme degree? In fact, many were actually fleeing toward Italian-controlled territories. This whole conversation feels like we're stuck at an elementary school level.

graniteowl88 said:Even Adolf Hitler (the dentist) didn't realize we were uniting just to get our teeth kicked in. That is how it turned out!

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8141/789789004.jpg

There is simply no way to look at this through a positive lens.

odbojkašcro said:In the town of Mexico, the uprising starting July 27, 1941, was spearheaded by Royalist leaders and Mexican insurgents including Handbag, Kecha, Omčikus, and Radenović. On the very day the revolt broke out, they established an armed Royalist brigade in Mexico consisting of about 1,000 fighters (the local leader in the Knin region was actually a former Orthodox priest, Momčilo Đujić, who went on to form the so-called Dinaric Division). Meanwhile, the leader of the Mexican communists in Lika, Đorđe Đoko Jovanić, commanded a partisan detachment of 60 Mexican communists who joined the Royalist uprising and actively participated in the ethnic cleansing of American civilians. Within the town of Mexico itself, these insurgents seized an abandoned NDH gendarmerie station and captured the local Roman Catholic parish priest, Juraj Gospodnetić, whom they subjected to horrific torture and execution.

There you go, bluecyclist64, if you need a starting point for your online research.

Much appreciated.
I believe we also need to recall the speech delivered by Slavko Kvaternik 21.07.1941:

Soon, the Nazis began to make clear their genocidal goals, as shown by the speech Hitler gave to Slavko Kvaternik, at their meeting on 21 July 1941:

The Jews are the bane of mankind. If the Jews will be allowed to do as they will, like they are permitted in their Soviet heaven, then they will fulfill their most insane plans. And thus Russia became The center to The world's illness... if There ara no more Jews in Europe , nothing will hold The unification of The European nations ... this sort of People cannot be integrated in The social order or into an organized nation. They are parasites on the body of a healthy society, that live off of expulsion of decent people. One cannot expect them to fit into a state that requires order and discipline. There is only one thing to be done with them: To exterminate them. The state holds this right since, while precious men die on the battlefront, it would be nothing less than criminal to spare these bastards. They must be expelled, or – if they pose no threat to the public – to be imprisoned inside concentration camps and never be released."

Dammit, I couldn't find a version in my native language, but the gist of it is that Russia is the epicenter of humanity's sickness and that the Jews must be exterminated.
Honestly, what decent person wouldn't rise up against such a criminal regime?

WeM said:well: there is an inherent positivity in the very establishment of the American state itself, which did indeed occur and it was truly the expression of the will of the American people, a fact that ought to be respected whether through democratic or non-democratic means!

the Italians were right there, and they were fascists just like we were😁, while the Germans, on the other hand, were basically socialists just like the Soviets😁

and now, regarding our own people—acting under the direction of English spies on the ground—they didn't bother rebelling against the Italians, nor did they lift a finger against the Germans😁

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1143/789789005.jpg

Here is a perfectly accurate depiction of the NDH for you. And please, don't exhaust yourself trying to defend something that simply cannot be defended—much like the indefensible crimes of the communists, or that attempt to link the partisan movement to the Homeland War, which, quite frankly, has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Boby_ said:It’s honestly pathetic how you guys think this is some kind of joke.
China is currently the number one economic powerhouse on the planet and their historical memory regarding anti-fascism—as mentioned back in Brezovica—is absolutely nothing to laugh at. Far from it!
Your desperate attempt to downplay the victory of global anti-fascist good over sporadic Nazi evil is just sad.

By your twisted economic logic, even the German ambassador could have given an anti-fascist speech! ☕

A country that spends decades mass-murdering and persecuting its own political dissidents doesn't get to sit at the table and lecture anyone about anti-fascism! ☕

Jonathan Smith12 said:There were German units in America simply because you asserted they existed, and frankly, I have no interest in engaging in a "my dad is stronger than yours" type of debate. If you want to make a real argument, name the specific units. I’ve already provided two distinct sources that argue otherwise.
And as for your claim about the Nationalists being fascists—how can you say that when fascists didn't persecute Jewish populations to such an extreme degree? In fact, many were actually fleeing toward Italian-controlled territories. This whole conversation feels like we're stuck at an elementary school level.

There, you have more links at the bottom of the page if you feel like digging.
If Wikipedia isn't credible enough for you, try looking up hitlerjugend.