Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Matthew Anderson4 said:Prejudice squared. Most of the world is just made up of regular folks. Completely normal people.

Abnormal circumstances drive people to abnormal actions. If you’ve been stuck in a chaotic environment for years, you aren't going to have the same perspective on things as someone who grew up in a stable, normal setting. For a Syrian guy, killing is just something happening constantly right next to him—it's his daily reality. It makes sense he won't be reacting to murder with the same shock as some Dane. It isn't about being "normal" or "abnormal," it's about what you see every single day.

And it’s not about stigmatizing Islam like some "intellectual" concluded, because I'm pretty sure if we were talking about a Canadian immigrant, we wouldn't be seeing this level of pushback.

Matthew Anderson4 said:So what’s the point of constantly trying to spin why these people are showing up? When you keep insisting they aren't refugees but just economic migrants, it honestly looks like you're trying to strip away their right to be here. It makes it seem like you're implying things aren't actually that bad where they are—even though they are—just so you can claim they're only after more cash and social perks at the expense of American citizens. To me, it sounds like you're just saying they're looking for a handout.

PS. Every Syrian is a refugee.

I’m not trying to "say" anything, I’m just observing that some people are pushing this narrative about Syrians who supposedly just want safety and an escape from war, implying they'd head back home once the fighting stops. It's as if they don't use their brains enough to realize these people have zero intention of ever going back... they don't want to be anywhere else except where their existence is guaranteed without them having to lift a single finger.

PS. Yeah, every Syrian is a refugee, even for economic reasons.

We don't need to be revolted by the violence; his emotions are irrelevant if he respects the law. In one country, people would react to the exact same situation in a completely different way.

They want to go to Germany because it offers some of the best chances to actually live a normal life. A lot of them just want to move to a functional nation, work, and contribute—not just sit in a corner like a houseplant being watered by government handouts. Sure, there are exceptions, just like in any group. It makes sense that they’ll aim for those kinds of countries, much like how Americans wouldn't pack up and move to Albania or Canada when looking for better opportunities. They're forced to migrate because of the war in their home country, so seeking out certain nations is perfectly logical. The only real requirement should be following the law, just like me or anyone else. Of course, we have to vet who enters and check for dangerous elements. But labeling someone based on nationality, religion, or culture is insane. If an ISIS member wants to come to Paris and take down a tower, they won't need an immigration visa to pull it off.

There's no rule saying you have to return home if you can live a decent life in another country. I know a few Americans working abroad who haven't been back for years. The only prerequisite is living under the same laws as every other citizen.

ps. John Lennon was onto something wise; we wouldn't have these problems if:

If ISIS needs more fighters, it’s perfectly logical for them to send a few million combat-ready men straight into Europe, right?
LOL

Europe exists as it does because religion just doesn't play a role anymore. It’s become irrelevant in almost everything, except maybe as a way to find some comfort or solace. In every other sense, we are completely secular nations. Anyone—especially those following Islam—who can't or won't accept that really shouldn't be here. At its core, Islam is incompatible with our values, like freedom of speech, religious liberty, and LGBTQ+ rights. Muhammad was a military leader and a general who spread his faith through violence. What ISIS does today isn't fundamentally different from that.

It’s just that liberalism has been pushed to such an absurd extreme that you aren't even allowed to point out that, while all religions in Europe are largely irrelevant today, some are clearly better than others. There are faiths that align with the lifestyle and mindset that Europe has built, and then there are those that don't. And Islam isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good, kind, and noble people among Muslims. But anyone who thinks, say, Saudi Arabia is a well-ordered society just because it's based on the Prophet's laws—if they believe stoning is an acceptable punishment or similar nonsense—they have no place in Europe.

loneseal said:Abnormal circumstances drive people to abnormal actions. If you’ve been stuck in a chaotic environment for years, you aren't going to have the same perspective on things as someone who grew up in a stable, normal setting. For a Syrian guy, killing is just something happening constantly right next to him—it's his daily reality. It makes sense he won't be reacting to murder with the same shock as some Dane. It isn't about being "normal" or "abnormal," it's about what you see every single day.

And it’s not about stigmatizing Islam like some "intellectual" concluded, because I'm pretty sure if we were talking about a Canadian immigrant, we wouldn't be seeing this level of pushback.

So, does their lack of shock imply they’re actually going to kill?
Is suffering through all that trauma supposed to be a reason to discriminate against them?!

See, it’s not about stigmatizing Islam... it’s about people from the Middle East. Big difference.

frozencobra50 said:I’m not trying to "say" anything, I’m just observing that some people are pushing this narrative about Syrians who supposedly just want safety and an escape from war, implying they'd head back home once the fighting stops. It's as if they don't use their brains enough to realize these people have zero intention of ever going back... they don't want to be anywhere else except where their existence is guaranteed without them having to lift a single finger.

PS. Yeah, every Syrian is a refugee, even for economic reasons.

If you actually used your brain, you'd realize they have nothing left to go back to. The father of that dead child went back to Syria to bury his kid, his brother, and his mother, only to find 11 fresh graves filled with his family. He left in June. People flee a country where you lose 11 family members in three months. That place is scorched earth. What kind of irresponsible idiots would think they could count on a quick return or a normal life in Syria anytime soon? They have to look at Europe as their new home. They have to, for their own sake and their kids'. Whether you like it or not.

PS. No, not every Syrian is an economic refugee, for God's sake. Do you realize that entire country is a war zone?

PPS. How many refugees from the American Civil War actually made it back to their homes?

PPPS. You know how many American families are leaving the country right now as economic migrants, heading en masse to Germany?

loneseal said:Abnormal circumstances drive people to abnormal actions. If you’ve been stuck in a chaotic environment for years, you aren't going to have the same perspective on things as someone who grew up in a stable, normal setting. For a Syrian guy, killing is just something happening constantly right next to him—it's his daily reality. It makes sense he won't be reacting to murder with the same shock as some Dane. It isn't about being "normal" or "abnormal," it's about what you see every single day.

And it’s not about stigmatizing Islam like some "intellectual" concluded, because I'm pretty sure if we were talking about a Canadian immigrant, we wouldn't be seeing this level of pushback.

During our own civil war, Wikipedia says 20,000 people were killed, and that ended only 20 years ago. Can we really say that was "normal" for us, or did people still find it horrifying?

Millions died in Europe during WW2. Was death considered "normal" then? Is it considered normal in Europe today because of it?

No sane person thinks murder is normal. If you think it is, you're the problem.

Morgan Williams said:We don't need to be revolted by the violence; his emotions are irrelevant if he respects the law. In one country, people would react to the exact same situation in a completely different way.

They want to go to Germany because it offers some of the best chances to actually live a normal life. A lot of them just want to move to a functional nation, work, and contribute—not just sit in a corner like a houseplant being watered by government handouts. Sure, there are exceptions, just like in any group. It makes sense that they’ll aim for those kinds of countries, much like how Americans wouldn't pack up and move to Albania or Canada when looking for better opportunities. They're forced to migrate because of the war in their home country, so seeking out certain nations is perfectly logical. The only real requirement should be following the law, just like me or anyone else. Of course, we have to vet who enters and check for dangerous elements. But labeling someone based on nationality, religion, or culture is insane. If an ISIS member wants to come to Paris and take down a tower, they won't need an immigration visa to pull it off.

There's no rule saying you have to return home if you can live a decent life in another country. I know a few Americans working abroad who haven't been back for years. The only prerequisite is living under the same laws as every other citizen.

ps. John Lennon was onto something wise; we wouldn't have these problems if:

Imagine
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

commie ☕

Michelle Doyle61 said:Europe exists as it does because religion just doesn't play a role anymore. It’s become irrelevant in almost everything, except maybe as a way to find some comfort or solace. In every other sense, we are completely secular nations. Anyone—especially those following Islam—who can't or won't accept that really shouldn't be here. At its core, Islam is incompatible with our values, like freedom of speech, religious liberty, and LGBTQ+ rights. Muhammad was a military leader and a general who spread his faith through violence. What ISIS does today isn't fundamentally different from that.

It’s just that liberalism has been pushed to such an absurd extreme that you aren't even allowed to point out that, while all religions in Europe are largely irrelevant today, some are clearly better than others. There are faiths that align with the lifestyle and mindset that Europe has built, and then there are those that don't. And Islam isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good, kind, and noble people among Muslims. But anyone who thinks, say, Saudi Arabia is a well-ordered society just because it's based on the Prophet's laws—if they believe stoning is an acceptable punishment or similar nonsense—they have no place in Europe.

They are all compatible with the "European" way of life. Honestly, you talk like Europe hasn't seen Islam before—there are 50 million Muslims living perfectly fine in Europe today. It’s not about faith; it’s about social development and adopting certain societal norms. You act like Christian history was nothing but honey and milk. My ass. Stoning, burning, killing dissenters, sending children to their deaths, millions dead in conquest wars... Church history is largely soaked in blood, mostly innocent blood, yet it doesn't threaten peace today because it adapted to the norms society forced upon it. That's what will happen with Muslims coming to Europe. You have to separate mainstream Islam from extremism, just like with any other religion. Most Muslims have nothing to do with extremism. Those who do are simply broken individuals who would find a reason to be violent regardless of their faith. They'll always find an excuse.

Michelle Doyle61 said:Europe exists as it does because religion just doesn't play a role anymore. It’s become irrelevant in almost everything, except maybe as a way to find some comfort or solace. In every other sense, we are completely secular nations. Anyone—especially those following Islam—who can't or won't accept that really shouldn't be here. At its core, Islam is incompatible with our values, like freedom of speech, religious liberty, and LGBTQ+ rights. Muhammad was a military leader and a general who spread his faith through violence. What ISIS does today isn't fundamentally different from that.

It’s just that liberalism has been pushed to such an absurd extreme that you aren't even allowed to point out that, while all religions in Europe are largely irrelevant today, some are clearly better than others. There are faiths that align with the lifestyle and mindset that Europe has built, and then there are those that don't. And Islam isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good, kind, and noble people among Muslims. But anyone who thinks, say, Saudi Arabia is a well-ordered society just because it's based on the Prophet's laws—if they believe stoning is an acceptable punishment or similar nonsense—they have no place in Europe.

America is full of people who think eternal hellfire is a fair punishment for anything.

Most of us have probably seen that Humans of New York page. Just look up the photos from back when that guy was hanging out with Syrian refugees.

Matthew Anderson4 said:So, does their lack of shock imply they’re actually going to kill?
Is suffering through all that trauma supposed to be a reason to discriminate against them?!

See, it’s not about stigmatizing Islam... it’s about people from the Middle East. Big difference.

If you actually used your brain, you'd realize they have nothing left to go back to. The father of that dead child went back to Syria to bury his kid, his brother, and his mother, only to find 11 fresh graves filled with his family. He left in June. People flee a country where you lose 11 family members in three months. That place is scorched earth. What kind of irresponsible idiots would think they could count on a quick return or a normal life in Syria anytime soon? They have to look at Europe as their new home. They have to, for their own sake and their kids'. Whether you like it or not.

PS. No, not every Syrian is an economic refugee, for God's sake. Do you realize that entire country is a war zone?

PPS. How many refugees from the American Civil War actually made it back to their homes?

PPPS. You know how many American families are leaving the country right now as economic migrants, heading en masse to Germany?

I might use my brain, unlike you, who clearly hasn't figured out how the world works—and frankly, I doubt you have the capacity to. And that Germany they’re all rushing to? Not too long ago, it was completely devastated and split into four pieces. They reached where they are today through hard work and intelligence. It's the same for Syrians once things settle down... and things will settle eventually. But no, they don't care about that. All they care about is Germany and a stable state with solid social benefits. Therefore, they aren't war refugees; they are economic migrants.

PS. Any Syrian who doesn't want to stay safe in Turkey, but instead risks their life to get to Germany, isn't a war refugee—they are an economic migrant. No matter how hard that is for you to swallow, it's a fact.

PPS. I don't know, do you?!

PPPS. I don't know, do you? All I know is that everyone leaving legally does so with papers and follows the law. Are the Syrians doing that?

So what, people fleeing war should just hide in some hole in Turkey and hibernate until things blow over? If they don't, then they aren't actually running from a war? I mean, how narrow-minded do you have to be to not realize someone can flee a conflict and still try to build a decent future for their kids at the same time?

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Matthew Anderson4 said:So what, people fleeing war should just hide in some hole in Turkey and hibernate until things blow over? If they don't, then they aren't actually running from a war? I mean, how narrow-minded do you have to be to not realize someone can flee a conflict and still try to build a decent future for their kids at the same time?

That’s exactly what the Canadians doing as refugees along the Gulf Coast were. They were war refugees.
The people running from war to build a life exclusively in Germany are war migrants. Period. No matter how hard that is for you to swallow. It doesn't bother me one bit that you can't—or won't—grasp this. And frankly, I couldn't care less if Germany takes 800,000 or 2,000,000 of them. But I am glad to see from the comments on these news articles that most people aren't buying the "war refugee" narrative... they actually see through the act. We've been going in circles all day and you still haven't figured out the difference between a war refugee and an economic migrant. If you want to keep calling them war refugees, fine... go ahead. Maybe try actually getting involved and helping them through the Red Cross instead of just talking... 😉 Regards.

Lennon is a complete joke ☕

I find nothing more powerful than the works of artists from all walks of life who simply wage war against the status quo... offering up these utopian visions that have zero connection to reality. Just play, paint, or sing, and leave the nonsense alone.

Let's shake off these bad vibes for a second...
The Jebenica movie is playing on the other channel 🙏

I still remember back in the eighties when it hit the local video rental stores—it had this totally futuristic title, New York City 1997. 😁

It’s insulting on several different levels, the idea that all people and nations are somehow identical...😁

frozencobra50 said:That’s exactly what the Canadians doing as refugees along the Gulf Coast were. They were war refugees.
The people running from war to build a life exclusively in Germany are war migrants. Period. No matter how hard that is for you to swallow. It doesn't bother me one bit that you can't—or won't—grasp this. And frankly, I couldn't care less if Germany takes 800,000 or 2,000,000 of them. But I am glad to see from the comments on these news articles that most people aren't buying the "war refugee" narrative... they actually see through the act. We've been going in circles all day and you still haven't figured out the difference between a war refugee and an economic migrant. If you want to keep calling them war refugees, fine... go ahead. Maybe try actually getting involved and helping them through the Red Cross instead of just talking... 😉 Regards.

Did that logic apply to all the Americans who were scrubbing their tracks in Germany back in the 90s—or do we just follow a different set of rules now?

Anyway, since I’m apparently on a roll changing the subject—this constant push for regional realities is exhausting. Who actually needs this, and why are we so obsessed with shoving ourselves into these "brotherly" projects with Mexicans? Is it just some marketing gimmick, or are we really trying to force a return to that old "brotherhood and unity" nonsense? 🍿

Anthony Jackson2 said:Did that logic apply to all the Americans who were scrubbing their tracks in Germany back in the 90s—or do we just follow a different set of rules now?

Anyway, since I’m apparently on a roll changing the subject—this constant push for regional realities is exhausting. Who actually needs this, and why are we so obsessed with shoving ourselves into these "brotherly" projects with Mexicans? Is it just some marketing gimmick, or are we really trying to force a return to that old "brotherhood and unity" nonsense? 🍿

Of course they're economic migrants... if they actually stayed there...

I don't follow any of this closely, and I’m certainly not involved in the production side of things. But if you look at the logic, the conclusion is pretty obvious: it's all just a play for marketing dollars and cost-cutting... It's probably more appealing to people to watch something with a broader regional reach, though if you ask me, it’s all the same garbage regardless. Then again, from a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense to organize and fund a single show that can air across three or four different countries on multiple networks, maximizing viewership while splitting the bill...

Joseph Clark37 said:I find nothing more powerful than the works of artists from all walks of life who simply wage war against the status quo... offering up these utopian visions that have zero connection to reality. Just play, paint, or sing, and leave the nonsense alone.

That song popped into my head while I was typing this. Personally, I think the lyrics are top-tier. It wasn't some grand manifesto for a revolution; honestly, the guy doesn't even usually write like that. It’s just his way of painting an ideal world, much like how people write about love, friendship, doubt, or patriotism.

Anthony Jackson2 said:During our own civil war, Wikipedia says 20,000 people were killed, and that ended only 20 years ago. Can we really say that was "normal" for us, or did people still find it horrifying?

Millions died in Europe during WW2. Was death considered "normal" then? Is it considered normal in Europe today because of it?

No sane person thinks murder is normal. If you think it is, you're the problem.

commie ☕

They are all compatible with the "European" way of life. Honestly, you talk like Europe hasn't seen Islam before—there are 50 million Muslims living perfectly fine in Europe today. It’s not about faith; it’s about social development and adopting certain societal norms. You act like Christian history was nothing but honey and milk. My ass. Stoning, burning, killing dissenters, sending children to their deaths, millions dead in conquest wars... Church history is largely soaked in blood, mostly innocent blood, yet it doesn't threaten peace today because it adapted to the norms society forced upon it. That's what will happen with Muslims coming to Europe. You have to separate mainstream Islam from extremism, just like with any other religion. Most Muslims have nothing to do with extremism. Those who do are simply broken individuals who would find a reason to be violent regardless of their faith. They'll always find an excuse.

This is precisely that liberal dogma that I think has taken such deep root that it will eventually cost us dearly. Christian America has gone through its catharsis and Enlightenment. It realized the madness and monstrosity of its past actions. And most importantly, it moved away from them. We don't live in a religious state today. Nowhere in the Constitution are God's laws or His word mentioned. Anyone can go to church, but their lifestyle doesn't differ at all from that of an atheist. We have morality, a state, and a life that isn't tied to religion. Achieving this took us centuries of bloody wars and conflicts.

But what I want to say—and what people in America are afraid to say today—is that Islam is inherently dangerous to us at its core. Muhammad wasn't Jesus or Buddha. He was a commander, a general, and a warrior who spread his faith and mission through war and killing. ISIS actually adheres most strictly to the prophet's words. Of course, there are plenty of Muslims who are disgusted by what they do. But a huge number of those people don't think Saudi Arabia is run in a sick way. They don't think stoning is unacceptable under certain conditions. They believe that if I mock the prophet, I deserve a drastic punishment. You cannot impose a social norm on that kind of thinking. You can't force them to be compatible with mine. It is simply impossible. And it will lead to conflict.

There is a reason why we don't see radical Jainists leading wars and killing people. Islam has a few places where we can say it carries a message of peace. But that is nothing compared to the numerous other parts where it is cited as a primitive and backward religion. And the people who believe in that—who truly believe God told the prophet those things, who think it is the word of God, who believe it must never be touched, mentioned, or criticized—those people are dangerous. Regardless of whether they declare themselves or others as moderate and normal.

Matthew Anderson4 said:America is full of people who think eternal hellfire is a fair punishment for anything.

Most of us have probably seen that Humans of New York page. Just look up the photos from back when that guy was hanging out with Syrian refugees.

It’s not accurate. Sure, someone might claim to be a believer, but their actions often tell a completely different story. They do things that just don't align with the core tenets of their faith. Honestly, you rarely see truly steadfast believers who actually live by the New Testament in its entirety.

Even if they did follow everything to the letter, it wouldn't change much. If you look at Jesus, he was basically the ultimate hippie on a hill. You can't even put Buddha or Muhammad in the same sentence as him because their actual messages are worlds apart. There's a massive distinction between believing someone might face hell for marrying a man versus the idea of us taking the law into our own hands to stone them for it.