Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Anthony Jackson2 said:You're missing the point because your entire argument starts from a flawed premise. They didn't attack because of religion, they didn't attack because we're "infidels," and it's not some grand scheme to Islamize us (?). The attack wasn't about faith—it was driven by other factors that you, Emily Ward3, that wannabe comedian Ken, and the rest of you seem determined to ignore, which is exactly what this thread has been debating for three days now.
They use religious rhetoric because the people pulling their strings have brainwashed them into thinking there’s a reward waiting in paradise—but that isn't why the attack happened.

For three days now, you've been bashing Islam, yet you conveniently forget how many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity—and you also forget that "peaceful" Christians in this country have only managed to nearly wipe each other out twice in the last century.

Besides, when you start quoting the Old Testament—all those lovely verses about forgiveness and peace...🙄

No, Islam isn't inherently violent, just as Christianity or Buddhism aren't—even though millions have died in the name of all three. Why? Because there are enough corrupt people in this world to twist any belief system to serve their own petty interests. Attacking Islam is an insult to the millions of people who have lived peacefully in America for generations under that "violent" faith.

Personally, I don't think religion does anyone any good, but I can understand why some people need it. Still, seeing one religion like Christianity being placed on a pedestal above all others—it's honestly nauseating.

Right. Totally. 🙂

glad we're on the same page

I find it pretty funny how some atheists feel this massive urge to defend Islam while simultaneously taking cheap shots at Catholics 😍

There are certain studies out there that are truly remarkable; people would be absolutely floored if they actually laid eyes on them...

Sandra Johnson58 said:That's the honest truth right there. Europeans practically invented genocide and total destruction; they're just waiting for a breaking point so the public turns against Muslims, and then everything goes to hell. I guess the only thing we'll actually see come out of this is everyone losing their civil liberties just in the name of "security."

We’ve already mastered this subject.
Consider this a free lesson.

Morgan Williams said:And the New Testament backs up the very filth God demanded in the Old:

The West and its history don't justify what these people are doing today. The goal should be to eliminate all filth, not to use our own filth to justify theirs.

No excuses—none at all. But there are causes, right? Between past baggage, current issues, genuine oppression, religious fanaticism, and politics... you can't just wipe the slate clean on history, and honestly, things aren't exactly getting better today. It was crosses and swords yesterday, and now it's missiles and drones.

Western civilization didn't just pop out of nowhere, either. It grew from a bunch of different sources, absorbed tons of other cultures, and let's be real—it definitely profited off other people's misery. It’s pretty naive to think exploitation just stopped because we cleaned up our own backyard and don't have to see the grit anymore. So, fine—let these "uncivilized" places deal with it on their own, as long as we don't have to hear about them (unless, you know, we need their oil or cheap labor).

As for the New Testament, you can't just take it at face value without oversimplifying everything. Back when those words were being written, the Old Testament wasn't even in the format we use today. And even if we could pinpoint exactly which part of the tradition Jesus was talking about regarding the Law, it still depends on which aspect of that tradition you mean. Plus, the New Testament itself is super diverse and open to so many interpretations—sometimes even contradicting itself... It's definitely not black and white.

Robin Fox2 said:So what? Even in China, they crack down on their Muslim population quite regularly whenever anyone dares to raise their head and demand basic rights that we in the West would consider standard...

It is simply much easier and more convenient to go after European cartoonists for drawing Muhammad; it’s much nicer living in Germany or Denmark where you can collect social benefits while just waiting for the right moment to show the infidels who's boss. Trying to get active in China? Well, it's difficult to be a terrorist in countries where life isn't particularly pleasant, and when you lack fundamental rights, there aren't any civil liberties groups rushing to your rescue... zero points.

Honestly guys, the Spanish colonized half the globe and nobody is out there trying to reclaim territory today. People are living in 2015 and leaving the past exactly where it belongs...

It makes total sense why terrorists wouldn't head to China or Burma. If they got caught there, even just being suspected of terrorism would make them wish they had actually pulled off the attack instead 🤣. The kind of torture they’d face, whether they were guilty or not... Westerners couldn't even imagine it. Also, it's kinda wild how ISIS doesn't seem to be targeting Israel, considering they're supposedly the biggest enemies of Muslims. Actually, I guess it's not that weird. If they pulled the same crap in Israel that they did in Paris, it’d trigger an immediate "Wrath of God" response, and Rakka would probably be a giant crater by now 🤣

I honestly think what really hit them hard was when that guy started playing Imagine on the piano right outside the concert hall. From everything I'm hearing, it absolutely wrecked them.

Patrick Wright2 said:I honestly think what really hit them hard was when that guy started playing Imagine on the piano right outside the concert hall. From everything I'm hearing, it absolutely wrecked them.

🤣

I’m just sitting here waiting for them to finally realize that Benzema had his hands in all these plays somehow.

Maybe Valbuena was coerced into doing that. 🙂

via Tapatalk

Gregory Chavez said:We’ve already mastered this subject.
Consider this a free lesson.

🤣

Patrick Wright2 said:I honestly think what really hit them hard was when that guy started playing Imagine on the piano right outside the concert hall. From everything I'm hearing, it absolutely wrecked them.

🤣

God, that was worse than scrolling through Facebook looking at pictures of the French flag. 🙏

The Middle East used to be the absolute heart of civilization. It was where everything kicked off, the place where humanity finally grabbed the tools needed to climb out of the stone age... All along those historic lands sat the most stunning cities of the ancient world, famous for their incredible architecture, the first paved streets, massive monuments, and advanced water systems. It was the birthplace of the first libraries—actual places where knowledge was kept safe so it wouldn't just vanish into thin air.
In the lavish courts of ancient rulers, chemists, mathematicians, and philosophers worked to crack the secrets of the universe, and their breakthroughs often became the foundation for Western scholars centuries later. That old Persian Empire was even one of the first to push the idea of multiculturalism, letting conquered people worship whoever they wanted as long as they paid their taxes to the Emperor. This region was basically the fountainhead of everything advanced and noble. And then Islam hit.

Suddenly, that whole civilization collapsed right back to where it started. Where there used to be progress, there was just devastation. Not to give foreign invaders a pass, obviously, but they definitely played their part in the wreckage.

Any organized religion is potentially toxic, at the very least. But none of them—not even close—have consistently fought against the things we claim to value, like equality, the pursuit of knowledge, and actual progress, quite like Islam does (or at least, the mainstream hardcore version of it).

Even the local Muslim community is coming out to condemn those attacks in Paris 🕺

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Anthony Jackson2 said:You're missing the point because your entire argument starts from a flawed premise. They didn't attack because of religion, they didn't attack because we're "infidels," and it's not some grand scheme to Islamize us (?). The attack wasn't about faith—it was driven by other factors that you, Emily Ward3, that wannabe comedian Ken, and the rest of you seem determined to ignore, which is exactly what this thread has been debating for three days now.
They use religious rhetoric because the people pulling their strings have brainwashed them into thinking there’s a reward waiting in paradise—but that isn't why the attack happened.

For three days now, you've been bashing Islam, yet you conveniently forget how many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity—and you also forget that "peaceful" Christians in this country have only managed to nearly wipe each other out twice in the last century.

Besides, when you start quoting the Old Testament—all those lovely verses about forgiveness and peace...🙄

No, Islam isn't inherently violent, just as Christianity or Buddhism aren't—even though millions have died in the name of all three. Why? Because there are enough corrupt people in this world to twist any belief system to serve their own petty interests. Attacking Islam is an insult to the millions of people who have lived peacefully in America for generations under that "violent" faith.

Personally, I don't think religion does anyone any good, but I can understand why some people need it. Still, seeing one religion like Christianity being placed on a pedestal above all others—it's honestly nauseating.

I don't see how criticizing an idea is the same thing as insulting the people who follow it for whatever reason they choose.

Sandra Johnson58 said:That's the honest truth right there. Europeans practically invented genocide and total destruction; they're just waiting for a breaking point so the public turns against Muslims, and then everything goes to hell. I guess the only thing we'll actually see come out of this is everyone losing their civil liberties just in the name of "security."

Americans trademarked genocide? You're being real, man. Pretty sure you just worded that wrong.

Humans have always had that primitive drive to wipe out anyone perceived as a threat or competition for resources. No one needed to "trademark" it; it’s just built-in. And it’s not just humans—it’s every living creature.

Noble Native American tribes were doing the exact same thing in isolation long before Europeans showed up; nobody had to teach them how to do it. The Japanese were pretty ruthless with the Ainu people in Hokkaido, and we all know what went down during the final years of the Ottoman Empire... for example. Americans were just more efficient and creative at it than the rest of the world.

Anyway, destruction and hate aren't specific to one group of people—they belong to everyone. Evil is just part of us. Fact. ☕

Anthony Jackson2 said:You're missing the point because your entire argument starts from a flawed premise. They didn't attack because of religion, they didn't attack because we're "infidels," and it's not some grand scheme to Islamize us (?). The attack wasn't about faith—it was driven by other factors that you, Emily Ward3, that wannabe comedian Ken, and the rest of you seem determined to ignore, which is exactly what this thread has been debating for three days now.
They use religious rhetoric because the people pulling their strings have brainwashed them into thinking there’s a reward waiting in paradise—but that isn't why the attack happened.

For three days now, you've been bashing Islam, yet you conveniently forget how many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity—and you also forget that "peaceful" Christians in this country have only managed to nearly wipe each other out twice in the last century.

Besides, when you start quoting the Old Testament—all those lovely verses about forgiveness and peace...🙄

No, Islam isn't inherently violent, just as Christianity or Buddhism aren't—even though millions have died in the name of all three. Why? Because there are enough corrupt people in this world to twist any belief system to serve their own petty interests. Attacking Islam is an insult to the millions of people who have lived peacefully in America for generations under that "violent" faith.

Personally, I don't think religion does anyone any good, but I can understand why some people need it. Still, seeing one religion like Christianity being placed on a pedestal above all others—it's honestly nauseating.

The attackers were firing at people while screaming 'Allahu akbar' at the top of their lungs!

But sure, I'm sure you know their motivations better than they do. After all, they're clearly such intellectual giants that they must have studied hundreds of history and economics textbooks before deciding this was the best course of action.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around why this handful of self-proclaimed intellectuals feels the need to dig up bloody historical grievances just to justify something like this.
I mean, if I were to go out on December 5th and massacre 120 people at a Bruce Springsteen concert in Madison Square Garden, would I really be entitled to an apology based on the fact that I’m "traumatized" because my home state was hit by a war twenty years ago?
Trying to find excuses for violence, while simultaneously trying to lecture us uneducated masses on how beautiful and wonderful Islam is—usually by using those French flag emojis on their Facebook profiles—is quite possibly the most sanctimonious level of nonsense I've ever encountered...

Michelle Doyle61 said:It would be like claiming a psychopath only acted out because the state of the country gave him some sort of "justification" for his intentions. That’s just not how it works. There are very clear, undeniable reasons why he did what he did. It's the same logic as why a group of people would decide to scatter in different directions the moment a bomb goes off in a crowded area. The motives are right there if you actually look at them.

People claim Islam isn't violent? Look, the Quran isn't exactly a massive tome. You can fly through it pretty quickly. I’d actually suggest you sit down and read it for yourself. Once you get into it, you'll see that message of peace and love firsthand.

If you’re claiming it isn't violent, then how exactly do you account for the legal systems in various Middle Eastern nations? I'm talking about things like public lashings or stoning. Is it really possible that every single one of them is just fundamentally misinterpreting the text? It seems hard to believe such a massive, widespread misunderstanding would happen everywhere at once.

I read the Quran a long time ago, but quite thoroughly—not sure if you have? And since you mentioned it isn't a huge book (it's about 600 pages total), I have my doubts. You're talking about Sharia law, but much of that is actually based on the Hadiths—collections of traditions believed to be the sayings of Muhammad. The thing is, there's a lot of disagreement over whether he even said certain things. Plus, Sharia varies significantly between Sunnis and Shiites and changes from one country to the next...

The Quran itself doesn't mention stoning as a punishment for anything, though it does mention flogging for adultery, provided there were four witnesses who saw it happen. Obviously, that doesn't make the punishment okay. Stoning for adultery was actually something found in the Old Testament and Jewish tradition too. The reason we don't look at Christianity as a "crazy" religion is because of the spirit in which the Bible was written, especially the New Testament. It's the same deal with the Quran; for instance, the Sufis are supposed to embody its true spirit...

Just as Western civilization rejected all those extreme practices, Middle Eastern cultures should ideally do the same. Luckily, the West had the benefit of developing a philosophical foundation that gave us enough distance from pure religious dogma...

Ultimately, the key today lies in education and economic stability. But it's not always a given, because even a place like Saudi Arabia publicly executes dozens of people every year. To be honest, many parts of that region didn't have centuries of cultural, scientific, or philosophical development; until recently, they were mostly dealing with primitive tribal structures. Just look at the groups American oil companies had to negotiate with when they first started drilling. That's why trying to force democracy onto those nations felt so unrealistic—many weren't ready for it, much like how it wouldn't necessarily work in China either...

I suppose I have to agree; it’s perfectly standard for 86% of Americans to believe that abandoning the faith should be met with a death sentence. Well, they aren't actually Americans and it isn't their specific faith, but it's close enough for the sake of the argument...

Emily Ward3 said:The attackers were firing at people while screaming 'Allahu akbar' at the top of their lungs!

But sure, I'm sure you know their motivations better than they do. After all, they're clearly such intellectual giants that they must have studied hundreds of history and economics textbooks before deciding this was the best course of action.

The media wants us to look at these politicians—as if staring at them actually changes anything. It’s all just a performance for the cameras.

Amanda Evans2 said:I honestly cannot wrap my head around why this handful of self-proclaimed intellectuals feels the need to dig up bloody historical grievances just to justify something like this.
I mean, if I were to go out on December 5th and massacre 120 people at a Bruce Springsteen concert in Madison Square Garden, would I really be entitled to an apology based on the fact that I’m "traumatized" because my home state was hit by a war twenty years ago?
Trying to find excuses for violence, while simultaneously trying to lecture us uneducated masses on how beautiful and wonderful Islam is—usually by using those French flag emojis on their Facebook profiles—is quite possibly the most sanctimonious level of nonsense I've ever encountered...

Nobody's out here asking for justifications regarding something like this—honestly, I don't know why it even needs to be mentioned, let alone debated. It’s just a pointless conversation.

I think we’re all mature enough now to actually talk about what caused this—without the theatrics. The root issues go way deeper than just religion, and that should be obvious to anyone who does more than glance at a headline once a week—or even those who've been paying actual attention to how this attack unfolded.

As for the whole religion debate—I only jumped in because I felt physically sick reading someone claim you have to distance yourself from Christian teachings just to justify killing. Apparently, they forgot that history spans a bit longer than twenty years.