Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

So while Austria tries to slow down the influx of cheap labor from overseas, the US—with its unemployment rates being twice as high—is actually cranking up the quotas for foreign workers 🙏

Plenki 🙏

The "American" government 🙏

It’s one of those classic American paradoxes, isn't it? I’ve seen it firsthand more times than I can count: we face chronic labor shortages across the board—from hospitality and farming to heavy industry—yet unemployment numbers somehow stay stubbornly high. A huge part of the issue boils down to mobility. And while statistics might show that wages are technically ticking upward, let’s be real—they still feel like peanuts, largely because our tax burden is absolutely astronomical.

We really are experts at this, aren't we? Only we could manage to juggle high unemployment and a massive shortage of workers across multiple sectors all at once.

Some people on the team are working under the table, while others just refuse to work at all—they'd much rather spend their time begging their grandma, grandpa, mom, or dad for help. Honestly, if you’ve already put in five days of combat service, you’re better off spending your time gathering paperwork for disability benefits through a well-connected doctor than working some dead-end job for $3$1.25a
...

Of course, the numbers look great on paper when you start padding the consumer spending metrics. If a CEO manages to justify a $10,000 monthly salary for himself, $0.00 he does it by cutting costs elsewhere—like firing 2,500 cashiers at a retail chain.
And presto, the GDP shows a statistical uptick. (By the way, TV subscription rates climb too, since they're bundled into those same consumer spending stats).

As for this supposed labor shortage... The workers exist. The real issue is that nobody wants to move to a place like Miami to work for three months just to earn a pittance $1333.
There are plenty of jobs available; there just aren't any jobs that actually pay a living wage.

It’s going to be tough for small business owners to pay fair wages with these tax rates. Most end up paying people under the table just to keep their heads above water. If they would just scrap progressive income taxes and have the state and local governments cut back on spending, things might actually look up...

Let’s be honest: some jobs are simply destined to have lower paychecks. It isn’t a matter of ethics or fairness; it’s just the economic reality of roles that require low-skilled labor.

On another note, isn't it true that almost everyone in America dreams of pulling in a CEO-level salary? (And don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not implying that Tim Cook is anything less than a top-tier executive!)

Sure, they complain about high taxes and how impossible it is to pay a decent wage, yet at the end of the season, some major hotel chain reports a profit of over $100 million.
But apparently, giving them anything more than $1333 minimum wage is just too much to ask.
And then? They have the nerve to keep whining about a labor shortage.

Do cleaners actually make a high salary?

Generally speaking, those types of jobs in the States are taken on by immigrants—whether they're from Mexico, Eastern Europe, or Africa—and I don't think that's just a coincidence.

Listen to this guy, whining about how wages are actually decent here in America while claiming nobody wants to work 🤦

Man, listen, if you think anything under ten grand a year is "laughable," then you’ve clearly had your brain washed by some socialist nonsense—and hey, if you want to pretend we should all just be thrilled with $5k, that’s your business, not mine. A lemon is a lemon no matter how much you try to polish it, and look, there are plenty of reasons why things are this way, but thank God I'm not going to get into all that. These fake "work hard and be happy" schemes are just being sold to idiots; nobody does this kind of grind out of pure passion without caring about the paycheck. Let’s be real, buddy, money matters immensely and we’re all out here grinding for the cash, plain and simple.

I mean, if I’m busting my ass for $8.25 hours an hour, and some jerk just because they live in a country slightly more "leftist" than ours gets paid twenty bucks more for the exact same thing, it makes zero sense.

And of course, now we have people like you acting like this is normal, but honestly, employers just love that we’re willing to settle for whatever, which is exactly how you end up with people doing grueling physical labor getting paid 10-30% less than they would overseas. What is even the point of this damn country then?

Who on earth claimed that the pay scales in America are actually good? Where did that idea even come from? 🙄

Thinking that a janitor should be pulling in a salary of $3333 is nothing more than envious, flawed economic logic. Let’s be realistic: cleaning is a low-wage job everywhere you look, simply because it's an entry-level role that doesn't require specialized training or advanced degrees.

It seems like Americans, in general, struggle with basic economic literacy and don't quite grasp how the mechanics of an economy actually function.

What a massive generalization 🙏

Seriously guys, you’re just throwing out these mindless little jabs like I don't know what's actually going on and you're some kind of expert. I work in finance, if you even care. For God's sake, why don't you just head over to India and be happy cleaning out sewers for fifty cents a day, or maybe go to Vietnam and assemble sneakers for a buck? Man, what a total brainwash. It's always "Americans this" or "Americans that," while everyone acts like the Germans, French, or Brits are freaking gods...

Justin James10 said:Who on earth claimed that the pay scales in America are actually good? Where did that idea even come from? 🙄

Thinking that a janitor should be pulling in a salary of $3333 is nothing more than envious, flawed economic logic. Let’s be realistic: cleaning is a low-wage job everywhere you look, simply because it's an entry-level role that doesn't require specialized training or advanced degrees.

It seems like Americans, in general, struggle with basic economic literacy and don't quite grasp how the mechanics of an economy actually function.

Right, so in your view, a seasonal worker—who likely relies on this as their sole income all year—should just be thrilled with $1333?

A quick reality check on seasonal labor conditions: 12-plus hour days, days off are basically science fiction, and living expenses are barely covered in locations where a sandwich costs $10...

$1333, you say?

Economics can be such a headache sometimes! It’s honestly baffling why a janitor here in the States might pull in $2,000 a month while someone working in Vietnam is struggling to make even a few dollars a day. 🕺

It’s not like I’m trying to argue that nobody should ever move abroad for better opportunities, 🤣

Anthony Jackson2 said:Right, so in your view, a seasonal worker—who likely relies on this as their sole income all year—should just be thrilled with $1333?

A quick reality check on seasonal labor conditions: 12-plus hour days, days off are basically science fiction, and living expenses are barely covered in locations where a sandwich costs $10...

$1333, you say?

But wait, who ever said she *had* to be satisfied?

Let's be honest: this kind of job isn't well-paid anywhere, even when you adjust for the cost of living here in the States. Even in places like Germany, those wages would be considered low by American standards, let alone compared to the local economy.

Give me a break. If there aren't any cleaners or general junior staff available to work for $1333, then frankly, he should be paying a hell of a lot more.
That’s what they call the "labor market" that employers love to lecture us about.
Of course, they suddenly lose all interest in the labor market when it comes time to hand out pink slips or slash salaries. But it works both ways. When it’s time for a raise, they start whining and begging the government for cheap foreign labor.
And I wouldn't even mention the earnings, but these executives pull in hundreds of millions of dollars, yet they find it so difficult to pay people fairly.
As for the politicians? To hell with their constant complaining about how America is dying or how the youth are leaving. They're leaving because there aren't any decent-paying jobs and because our government is a complete mess compared to anything else in the West. And every single day, things just get worse.

Our entire market economy seems to be stalling out, and the job market isn't faring any better. While there's absolutely no denying that working conditions could be significantly improved, we simply don't have a functional economic model where a janitor can earn a decent, livable wage. It just doesn't exist anywhere in our system, does it?

Then let those middle managers clean up the mess.

Look, we aren't talking about a steady salary here—just hire her full-time and pay her $4,000 a month all year round. She’ll be happy, and the employer will have no trouble finding cleaners willing to take those terms. She'll work for six or seven months, then spend the rest of the year sitting at home, perfectly fine 🤷
.
We’re talking about hospitality jobs—aka seasonal work. It’s clearly normal for you to think it's okay for a woman to grind for six months straight without a single day off for $1333, only to survive on nothing for the rest of the year?

Honestly, when people with this kind of mindset and logic show up to economics lectures, it’s no wonder our country is in the state it's in.

I’m bringing this up again because it feels like we’re focusing on all the wrong details. Sure, the pay for cleaning services could certainly be improved, but let's be realistic: there isn't a business model out there where being a cleaner is considered a high-paying career. It just doesn't exist. I mean, think about it—in the US, are we hiring corporate managers to scrub floors, or are we looking at low-wage immigrant labor? And in Germany, do you really think they're sending executives to clean offices, or is it mostly migrant workers from Eastern Europe?

Fine, let’s go with that then.
So, we'll have American women heading over to Germany to work, while over in places like San Antonio, it'll be Mexican women doing the cleaning.