Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

http://www.eiu.com/Handlers/Whitepap...cracyIndex2017

Democracy Index

Estonia sits at 30th globally, Slovakia is 44th, and the US is down at 58th.

Our index has been on a steady slide for the last decade—much like Slovakia's—while Estonia keeps climbing.

As far as I can tell, this is the most thorough, long-term analysis of democracy by country out there.

Justin James10 said:Oh, I’m watching, believe me—and by comparison, we look like a developing nation. Seriously, compared to them, we’re practically stuck in the dark ages regarding infrastructure!

All this "it's just how things are in Eastern Europe" talk—claiming that because journalists get killed and organized crime runs rampant in places like Slovakia, it makes us equal? What have you been sleeping through for the last twenty-plus years? 👏 In our neck of the woods, nobody even bats an eye when stuff like that happens because, unfortunately, it’s become the status quo.

Look, I’m not some kind of idiot who’s going to sit here and gloat over a journalist being killed in any country just because we're having a debate on a forum. But I find it hard to believe a nation is doing fine when 45,000 people take to the streets demanding the resignation of the administration over a reporter's death. There is something fundamentally broken under the surface there.

So, which journalist was killed in the States? If it's truly "business as usual," why don't you give me a few names.

According to their metrics, we’re just as far removed from Slovakia as we are from the bottom-tier hybrid regimes like Albania or Moldova.

Full democracies: These are nations where basic political freedoms and civil liberties aren't just respected—they're actually baked into the culture.
The government works, the media stays independent, and you've got a solid system of checks and balances in place. The judiciary is truly independent, too, and rulings actually mean something. Basically, the democratic machinery runs smoothly with very few hiccups.

Flawed democracies: These places still hold free and fair elections, and even if things get messy—like when media freedom takes a hit—basic civil liberties generally stay intact.
That said, there are some pretty glaring cracks in the foundation, mostly involving governance issues, a lack of deep-seated political engagement, or a shaky political culture.

Hybrid regimes: Here, elections are often compromised by enough irregularities that they can't really be called free or fair.
You'll see the government putting heavy pressure on opposition candidates quite often. The systemic flaws—think corruption, weak rule of law, and low civic engagement—are much more pronounced here than in flawed democracies.

Civil society is thin, journalists face constant harassment, and you certainly can't count on an independent judiciary.

Authoritarian regimes: In these states, any semblance of political pluralism is either non-existent or strictly managed.
Many fall straight into the dictatorship category. While they might keep the outward appearance of democratic institutions, those structures are hollow shells.
If elections happen at all, they aren't fair. Civil liberties are routinely ignored, the media is essentially a mouthpiece for the ruling party, and dissent is met with censorship or outright repression.

There is no independent judiciary to speak of.

https://nscpolteksby.ac.id/ebook/fil...derperform.pdf

Our comprehensive study of 30 Singapore government-linked companies (GLCs) covering the period 1964 to1998 shows that share issue privatization has some positive impacts on their performance. However, there was no evidence that the GLCs were less profitable than a selected group of non-GLCs that match by size and industry. Taking a buy-and-hold strategy, we found that GLC stocks provide statistically equivalent returns relative to market or othercontrol sample returns over various investment horizons of up to four years. Given that GLCs also perform as well as averages for the market and industry up to five years before their listing, we argue that Singapore’s government-owned enterprises are comparable to privately run enterprises in efficiency.

So, it isn't as if it's an absolute impossibility. If the system of checks and balances actually functions, then any economic framework can work, naturally bringing its own set of advantages and drawbacks. But if those fundamental mechanisms fail, no economic system—regardless of its design—is going to find success. That is my take on privatization; it certainly isn't a magic cure-all for every ailment.

By the way:

The top six Singapore-listed GLCs accounted for about 17% of total capitalization of the Singapore Exchange (SGX).

Which implies we aren't talking about just a handful of insignificant firms here.

The US GDP over the decades:



The reason for the success:

So why did Singapore succeed so comprehensively? The simple answer is exceptional leadership. Many in the world have heard of Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, the founding prime minister who passed away in March this year. Far fewer have heard of Dr. Goh Keng Swee, the architect of Singapore’s economic miracle, and Mr. S. Rajaratnam, Singapore’s philosopher par excellence.

Together, they made a great team.

This exceptional team also implemented three exceptional policies: Meritocracy, Pragmatism and Honesty. Indeed, I share this “secret” MPH formula with every foreign student at the Lee Kuan Yew School, and I assure them that if they implement it, their country will succeed as well as Singapore. Meritocracy means a country picks its best citizens, not the relatives of the ruling class, to run a country. Pragmatism means that a country does not try to reinvent the wheel. As Dr. Goh Keng Swee would say to me, “Kishore, no matter what problem Singapore encounters, somebody, somewhere, has solved it. Let us copy the solution and adapt it to Singapore.” Copying best practices is something any country can do. However, implementing “Honesty” is the hardest thing to do. Corruption is the single biggest reason why most Third World countries have failed. The greatest strength of Singapore’s founding fathers was that they were ruthlessly honest. It also helped that they were exceptionally shrewd and cunning.

There you have it. Everything else is just window dressing.

ruggedjackal46 said:Look, I’m not some kind of idiot who’s going to sit here and gloat over a journalist being killed in any country just because we're having a debate on a forum. But I find it hard to believe a nation is doing fine when 45,000 people take to the streets demanding the resignation of the administration over a reporter's death. There is something fundamentally broken under the surface there.

So, which journalist was killed in the States? If it's truly "business as usual," why don't you give me a few names.

Pukanić and Franić were blown up by a bomb right in the heart of the capital city.😉

They’re calling for resignations because it was such a massive shock to them, whereas here, nobody even gives it a second thought. That said, investigative journalism in the States has practically vanished. Who would actually want to go up against our local organized crime syndicates?

Justin James10 said:Oh, I’m watching, believe me—and by comparison, we look like a developing nation. Seriously, compared to them, we’re practically stuck in the dark ages regarding infrastructure!

All this "it's just how things are in Eastern Europe" talk—claiming that because journalists get killed and organized crime runs rampant in places like Slovakia, it makes us equal? What have you been sleeping through for the last twenty-plus years? 👏 In our neck of the woods, nobody even bats an eye when stuff like that happens because, unfortunately, it’s become the status quo.

The point isn't about celebrating the violence against reporters over there, but rather acknowledging that the public consciousness is actually sharp enough to drive massive protests into the streets. Is it really all just a pattern, or are we ignoring the fact that people are finally standing up?

brightpilot6 said:The point isn't about celebrating the violence against reporters over there, but rather acknowledging that the public consciousness is actually sharp enough to drive massive protests into the streets. Is it really all just a pattern, or are we ignoring the fact that people are finally standing up?

So, are we the shining beacon of liberty while they represent a total empire of darkness?🤔

Justin James10 said:Pukanić and Franić were blown up by a bomb right in the heart of the capital city.😉

They’re calling for resignations because it was such a massive shock to them, whereas here, nobody even gives it a second thought. That said, investigative journalism in the States has practically vanished. Who would actually want to go up against our local organized crime syndicates?

Calling Pukanić an "investigative journalist" is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? To me, he was more like a guy who was deeply embedded in a web of shady characters and organized crime syndicates. It’s hard to look at him through that lens when you consider how much overlap there was between his work and those circles. Look at what happened in Slovakia—that reporter under thirty gets taken out along with his fiancée. It's tragic, obviously. And no, I’m not sitting here suggesting one life holds more value than another; we all know that's nonsense. My point is simply that the Pukanić situation is far too tangled and layered to be dismissed as just another "journalist murdered" headline. It's much messier than that.

brightpilot6 said:The point isn't about celebrating the violence against reporters over there, but rather acknowledging that the public consciousness is actually sharp enough to drive massive protests into the streets. Is it really all just a pattern, or are we ignoring the fact that people are finally standing up?

Look, let's be real for a second. You don't just see 45,000 people flooding the streets of Chicago over the murder of a journalist and suddenly demanding the entire administration resign. In a functioning democracy, the government isn't held responsible for a single criminal act like that—unless, of course, everyone assumes they were pulling the strings. It’s pretty obvious someone is working overtime behind the scenes to stir up this kind of unrest.

https://tkojejohngalt.wordpress.com/...t-prema-dolje/

Look, friends, it’s pretty obvious we’re doing something fundamentally wrong here. 🤔
I mean, damn, we’re getting absolutely outmaneuvered by folks like the Canadians working with little old Putin, and even the Poles—who, unlike us, actually have people in power who lean into that whole Catholic traditionalist vibe. 🤦
I’m fully aware that in certain circles around here, Poland and Canada aren't exactly the most beloved neighbors, but let's be real: just because they aren't your favorite doesn't change the fact that they're leaving our economy in the dust.

Look, we all know exactly who was behind the blast, and yet the media still refuses to address the reality here in America: journalists getting caught up in explosions just a few hundred yards from the heart of the government, and somehow, it goes completely unpunished. Why does the full truth of that case remain buried?

Lately, it seems like the trendy thing to do in liberal circles is to constantly harp on about how backwards and Catholic Poland is. Sure, they say it's "stuck in the past," but how can they claim that when a country like Poland is actually leading the way in so many areas compared to us? 🙏

Justin James10 said:Look, we all know exactly who was behind the blast, and yet the media still refuses to address the reality here in America: journalists getting caught up in explosions just a few hundred yards from the heart of the government, and somehow, it goes completely unpunished. Why does the full truth of that case remain buried?

Lately, it seems like the trendy thing to do in liberal circles is to constantly harp on about how backwards and Catholic Poland is. Sure, they say it's "stuck in the past," but how can they claim that when a country like Poland is actually leading the way in so many areas compared to us? 🙏

What "liberal circles" are we even talking about here? And what "mantras"? Look, Poland is a Catholic state, plain and simple. You can't just obsess over a country's GDP while they're actively moving toward banning abortion entirely—including cases where the fetus has severe abnormalities. It doesn't quite add up, does it?

ruggedjackal46 said:What "liberal circles" are we even talking about here? And what "mantras"? Look, Poland is a Catholic state, plain and simple. You can't just obsess over a country's GDP while they're actively moving toward banning abortion entirely—including cases where the fetus has severe abnormalities. It doesn't quite add up, does it?

If Americans want such laws, then where is the issue, friends? 🤷 Why shouldn't the forces of some massive international alliance step in to prevent these kinds of ideological shifts? 🤷

Oh sure, let's ignore the GDP and instead focus on... what? Some vague, intangible feeling of leftist influence? 🤷

Can you actually teach leftists how democracy works? 🕺

Justin James10 said:If Americans want such laws, then where is the issue, friends? 🤷 Why shouldn't the forces of some massive international alliance step in to prevent these kinds of ideological shifts? 🤷

Oh sure, let's ignore the GDP and instead focus on... what? Some vague, intangible feeling of leftist influence? 🤷

Can you actually teach leftists how democracy works? 🕺

You're basically fighting ghosts in your own head.

ruggedjackal46 said:You're basically fighting ghosts in your own head.

I assume you mean class enemies? 🙂

Does anyone know where IVTAU is hiding?

Justin James10 said:If Americans want such laws, then where is the issue, friends? 🤷 Why shouldn't the forces of some massive international alliance step in to prevent these kinds of ideological shifts? 🤷

Oh sure, let's ignore the GDP and instead focus on... what? Some vague, intangible feeling of leftist influence? 🤷

Can you actually teach leftists how democracy works? 🕺

Justin James10 said:If Americans want such laws, then where is the issue, friends? 🤷 Why shouldn't the forces of some massive international alliance step in to prevent these kinds of ideological shifts? 🤷

Oh sure, let's ignore the GDP and instead focus on... what? Some vague, intangible feeling of leftist influence? 🤷

Can you actually teach leftists how democracy works? 🕺

Justin James10 said:I assume you mean class enemies? 🙂

It seems someone has been reading "How to be an American liberal for Dummies."

I find myself missing the term "statism"; doesn't it carry a certain scientific weight?

brightpilot6 said:It seems someone has been reading "How to be an American liberal for Dummies."

I find myself missing the term "statism"; doesn't it carry a certain scientific weight?

I love it when you all get so worked up over specific keywords!☕

You aren't offering anything beyond a handful of keywords, are you? It’s the same old song we've heard a thousand times before. Next ☕

Michelle Palmer6 said:Does anyone know where IVTAU is hiding?

In real life ☕

I don't see how GDP actually correlates with democracy or the will of the people—I mean, look at Turkey, they're ahead of us in that regard, so does that mean their democratic rights are somehow superior? Plus, regarding privatization—handing everything over to private corporations isn't a magic fix. There are plenty of examples out there where both state ownership and total privatization have succeeded or failed miserably.

Scandinavian countries are way more socially conscious than Americans and folks like us—democracy is arguably most robust there. If you pair the Scandinavians with places like Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, and Canada, you've got the nations with the highest quality of life on the planet.