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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 613 views · 9.2K replies

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Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#5401 ·
ztrew said:Russia needs to start making its own chips, building its own computers, upgrading tech, all that good stuff.

Well, newsflash: Russia is never going to forget about Ukraine or those other Slavic nations.

First off, even the USSR couldn't pull that off. They were too busy funneling wealth into villas on the Black Sea instead of actual science. And let’s be real, they were basically just copying Western tech anyway.

Second: that’s exactly why the other Slavic countries want nothing to do with Russia. Even Belarus would jump at the chance to walk away if they could.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#5402 ·
ztrew said:You’re forgetting that unlike the US, the ROC has been restored in Russia and Jesus's priests are the main players here—so I don't think we'll see any separatism.

I mean, look at Chechnya, everyone there is Orthodox...
🤣

Quincy:
The question is whether Kiril and the ROC can actually allow the handing over of the Ukrainian people to the USA, given the grim conditions ahead: speculation, blackmail, extortion, fraud, and a total loss of sovereignty. It won't be about research, experimentation, building infrastructure, or progress.
Between the Pride parades, gender ideology, and the Green New Deal...

🕺

Quincy:
Russian priests and the ROC have seen what happened to us back in America with those "independent" republics of ours.
God forbid the Ukrainians end up like we did.
Yep.
People are starving in the streets...
🙂

Quincy:
Both the Roman Bishop and the Catholic Church see how far morality has fallen in the West, so they can't in good conscience allow Ukraine, or anyone else, to be handed over to the USA. The Catholic Church needs to explain the situation to Catholics in America.
You really think this cultural Marxist Pope Frank...?

🍿

Quincy:
Russia needs to manufacture its own chips, computers, and improve its technology, etc.
ROC priests will probably just re-consolidate Russian society.
Are they going to start chip manufacturing in ROC monasteries????

🤔

Maybe potato chips?

Quincy:
Russia will never forget or abandon Ukraine and the other Slavic lands.
We know that.
They should be kicked out, just like the Ukrainians are doing now!
stormybear25 stormybear25 Active Member
62 messages
joined Sep 2022
#5403 ·
Henry Rodriguez5 said:So, Russia just admitted to nearly 50,000 fallen soldiers ☕

😢
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#5404 ·
Kate Lewis3 said:My point is, every single setback—and look, let's call a loss a loss, they failed to "denazify" or "demilitarize" Ukraine—is just an excuse for the current elites to dodge accountability.

They've backed themselves into a corner. To them, any peace deal that doesn't put the Russian government in charge of Kyiv is seen as a total surrender.

And realistically? This conflict ends with Crimea being liberated, no matter how much people whine about it. Maybe the Ukrainian units won't be charging through the streets, but nothing's going to be left standing once the Ukrainians start HIMARS-ing everything in sight.

Even if the Russians pulled out tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't stand a chance at holding onto Crimea.

It would basically become their version of the Gaza Strip.
Drew Booth60 Drew Booth60 Member
46 messages
joined Feb 2014
#5405 ·
What I find most fascinating is how Russian air defense from back in the 70s and 80s—honestly, just decades ago—basically grounded their own air force. We all know how effective those systems can be against Western jets. If America were fighting in Ukraine—which is basically Russia's backyard—they’d dismantle the Russian military in a conventional war without even touching nukes. This whole conflict has really hammered home the point that air superiority is the absolute key to winning a war; without it, you're just left with a brutal grind where victory goes to whoever has more bodies and higher morale.

Now, China? They’ve got copies of the most advanced Western and Russian aircraft, and knowing how good they are at making clones that actually match the originals, I honestly think they're the only true threat to America. It isn't even a stretch to say that China represents a military, technological, and economic threat unlike anything we saw even during the USSR era. After the war in Ukraine started, Obama made it pretty clear that Russia is just a regional power, whereas his outlook on the Chinese had always been different. America knew way back then that Russia is primarily a nuclear threat, while China is the actual military threat capable of seriously challenging American hegemony in the Pacific. A war over Taiwan would be a much more dangerous conflict, and the outcome could decide who the next global hegemon is. Sure, America is militarily stronger and more experienced than the Chinese, but they have the home-field advantage. It’s no surprise that regarding Taiwan—which America doesn't even officially recognize as a state—Washington is dropping hints that they might actually intervene. That’s a huge contrast to Ukraine, where intervention is strictly off the table because that's a war right on the edge of NATO territory. You can contain Russia through proxy wars, but you can't really do that with the Chinese. So, it’s not that weird that America has clashed more with Russia than China, even if the latter is the bigger threat. It’s almost like they went to settle things with the weaker opponent first so they could eventually focus on the real challenge: China.

I really hope Taiwan never becomes a crisis, because that would essentially be a war between the two largest military and economic superpowers on the planet, both packing nukes—and the result of a fight like that is anyone's guess.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#5406 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Even if the Russians pulled out tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't stand a chance at holding onto Crimea.

It would basically become their version of the Gaza Strip.

The cold, hard reality is that the whole Crimea situation eventually has to be settled through some kind of agreement between Ukraine and Russia.
gentlerider7 gentlerider7 Regular
291 messages
joined Jan 2021
#5407 ·
Drew Booth60 said:What I find most fascinating is how Russian air defense from back in the 70s and 80s—honestly, just decades ago—basically grounded their own air force. We all know how effective those systems can be against Western jets. If America were fighting in Ukraine—which is basically Russia's backyard—they’d dismantle the Russian military in a conventional war without even touching nukes. This whole conflict has really hammered home the point that air superiority is the absolute key to winning a war; without it, you're just left with a brutal grind where victory goes to whoever has more bodies and higher morale.

Now, China? They’ve got copies of the most advanced Western and Russian aircraft, and knowing how good they are at making clones that actually match the originals, I honestly think they're the only true threat to America. It isn't even a stretch to say that China represents a military, technological, and economic threat unlike anything we saw even during the USSR era. After the war in Ukraine started, Obama made it pretty clear that Russia is just a regional power, whereas his outlook on the Chinese had always been different. America knew way back then that Russia is primarily a nuclear threat, while China is the actual military threat capable of seriously challenging American hegemony in the Pacific. A war over Taiwan would be a much more dangerous conflict, and the outcome could decide who the next global hegemon is. Sure, America is militarily stronger and more experienced than the Chinese, but they have the home-field advantage. It’s no surprise that regarding Taiwan—which America doesn't even officially recognize as a state—Washington is dropping hints that they might actually intervene. That’s a huge contrast to Ukraine, where intervention is strictly off the table because that's a war right on the edge of NATO territory. You can contain Russia through proxy wars, but you can't really do that with the Chinese. So, it’s not that weird that America has clashed more with Russia than China, even if the latter is the bigger threat. It’s almost like they went to settle things with the weaker opponent first so they could eventually focus on the real challenge: China.

I really hope Taiwan never becomes a crisis, because that would essentially be a war between the two largest military and economic superpowers on the planet, both packing nukes—and the result of a fight like that is anyone's guess.

But let’s get real for a second, because regardless of how things end up, if China actually tries to pull an invasion on Taiwan, they're looking at a total disaster where tens of thousands of their troops get absolutely slaughtered; I mean, trying to take Taiwan is basically running a massive Overlord*2 operation, except the terrain there is way more rugged and practically begging for some brutal guerrilla warfare to tear them apart.
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#5408 ·
image

It’s funny how people go from calling for a total purge of Ukrainians because they're supposedly "dangerous Western Nazis," to suddenly pivoting to those super cheesy, "remember when we were all best friends?" vibes. Now they're acting like the good old days—when everyone was just singing songs together in both languages and holding hands—were somehow the peak of existence.
gentlerider7 gentlerider7 Regular
291 messages
joined Jan 2021
#5409 ·
The level of pure psychosis happening here is actually insane, reaching a point where commentators are straight-up deciding that Ukraine doesn't even exist anymore. Rodion Mirošnik, representing that self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic, is out there claiming that what used to be Ukraine has basically devolved into just some tribe of English speakers who are all outsiders fighting against Russia.

"Ukraine isn't real. What we're seeing today is just a hired mob that’s been geared up, trained, funded, and essentially sent to their deaths. There are so many videos out there, so many people in their ranks speaking nothing but English... For these Ukrainians, knowing English is vital because they have to communicate directly with their leadership. Their language skills are improving fast because they have to speak the language of NATO," Mirošnik said.
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#5410 ·
crimsonwolf26 said:If things ever reach a breaking point where Russia officially declares war on Ukraine—basically moving toward full-scale martial law and total mobilization—do you think there’s a realistic chance that NATO would actually step in officially?

I mean, why would anyone even sign up for a losing war?

Here’s a quick little scenario:

Government Agent: Good morning, you've been drafted.
Citizen: Oooookay.
Government Agent: Here's your rifle, head toward Ukraine.
Citizen (holding the rifle): No way. Get lost.

-----------

The last thing Putin needs right now is hundreds of thousands of armed, volatile people whose loyalty is super questionable, I guess. He'll probably just end up trying to scramble for asylum somewhere in North Korea, China, Africa, or maybe Mexico (though you'd see if that old-school brotherhood actually holds up there, wouldn't you?)...
crimsonwolf26 crimsonwolf26 Active Member
66 messages
joined Mar 2023
#5411 ·
Timothy Nelson5 said:And I wonder if that would actually make much of a difference in terms of boosting Russian strength.
What kind of tanks are they even going to hand out, or what about artillery and ammo supplies?
I mean, it would take them months just to get those units organized and trained up...

Honestly, I think it’s more about how insane the whole concept is. Who even declares war on someone these days? If you lose, you’re basically forced into signing some kind of surrender agreement.
The people in Moscow are just talking nonsense at this point; they seem completely lost in the middle of all this.
swiftjackal11 swiftjackal11 Regular
271 messages
joined May 2018
#5412 ·
Is there anyone in Russia who’s actually sane enough to say that every single day this war in Ukraine drags on, we're just showing the world how incapable we really are? It would be better to just end this now, so people still see us as a strong and capable nation rather than a joke.
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#5413 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Even if the Russians pulled out tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't stand a chance at holding onto Crimea.

It would basically become their version of the Gaza Strip.

I don't buy it. Once the Russian core retreats, all their local proxies vanish along with them. For those people, even the thought of living under Ukrainian rule is unsustainable. They play the part of brave, mighty Russians—but only when they have the numbers and a repressive state apparatus backing them up. Any other scenario isn't an option. Just as they seized everything when Russia occupied Crimea, they’ll abandon ship the moment Russia leaves. A few die-hards might stay behind, but everyone knows exactly where their loyalties lie.
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#5414 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Even if the Russians pulled out tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't stand a chance at holding onto Crimea.

It would basically become their version of the Gaza Strip.

Honestly, I don't see the logic there, and I definitely don't see how it's anything like Gaza.
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#5415 ·
swiftjackal11 said:Is there anyone in Russia who’s actually sane enough to say that every single day this war in Ukraine drags on, we're just showing the world how incapable we really are? It would be better to just end this now, so people still see us as a strong and capable nation rather than a joke.

Yeah, right. As if they didn't pull back to the Donbas in a perfectly organized retreat just to double down on their attempts to crush the Ukrainian nation.

Pure, unadulterated truth, straight from the TV.
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#5416 ·
boldotter2 said:I mean, why would anyone even sign up for a losing war?

Here’s a quick little scenario:

Government Agent: Good morning, you've been drafted.
Citizen: Oooookay.
Government Agent: Here's your rifle, head toward Ukraine.
Citizen (holding the rifle): No way. Get lost.

-----------

The last thing Putin needs right now is hundreds of thousands of armed, volatile people whose loyalty is super questionable, I guess. He'll probably just end up trying to scramble for asylum somewhere in North Korea, China, Africa, or maybe Mexico (though you'd see if that old-school brotherhood actually holds up there, wouldn't you?)...

Realistically speaking—there is no asylum for Putin. There isn't a single place left where he can settle down peacefully, unless he clings to power in Russia after the war ends, leading to another era of stagnation (much like the infamous "Era of Stagnation" seen during the latter half of Leonid Brezhnev's reign).
And Mexico can't offer him refuge anyway because—thankfully—he physically cannot even make it there. It was the same story when Sergey Lavrov tried to visit them; he couldn't get through. They might welcome a visit, but by pure coincidence, it just isn't happening.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#5417 ·
cave troll said:The Russians don't just let people like that walk away. For them, it’s either a prison cell or Novichok. 😉

Or they just happen to fall out of a tenth-story window...

🍿
Donna Wells2 Donna Wells2 Active Member
75 messages
joined Jun 2022
#5418 ·
Drew Booth60 said:What I find most fascinating is how Russian air defense from back in the 70s and 80s—honestly, just decades ago—basically grounded their own air force. We all know how effective those systems can be against Western jets. If America were fighting in Ukraine—which is basically Russia's backyard—they’d dismantle the Russian military in a conventional war without even touching nukes. This whole conflict has really hammered home the point that air superiority is the absolute key to winning a war; without it, you're just left with a brutal grind where victory goes to whoever has more bodies and higher morale.

Now, China? They’ve got copies of the most advanced Western and Russian aircraft, and knowing how good they are at making clones that actually match the originals, I honestly think they're the only true threat to America. It isn't even a stretch to say that China represents a military, technological, and economic threat unlike anything we saw even during the USSR era. After the war in Ukraine started, Obama made it pretty clear that Russia is just a regional power, whereas his outlook on the Chinese had always been different. America knew way back then that Russia is primarily a nuclear threat, while China is the actual military threat capable of seriously challenging American hegemony in the Pacific. A war over Taiwan would be a much more dangerous conflict, and the outcome could decide who the next global hegemon is. Sure, America is militarily stronger and more experienced than the Chinese, but they have the home-field advantage. It’s no surprise that regarding Taiwan—which America doesn't even officially recognize as a state—Washington is dropping hints that they might actually intervene. That’s a huge contrast to Ukraine, where intervention is strictly off the table because that's a war right on the edge of NATO territory. You can contain Russia through proxy wars, but you can't really do that with the Chinese. So, it’s not that weird that America has clashed more with Russia than China, even if the latter is the bigger threat. It’s almost like they went to settle things with the weaker opponent first so they could eventually focus on the real challenge: China.

I really hope Taiwan never becomes a crisis, because that would essentially be a war between the two largest military and economic superpowers on the planet, both packing nukes—and the result of a fight like that is anyone's guess.

Can you name a single aircraft that is even remotely as good as a Western or Russian jet, or maybe even half as good as the originals?
Chinese-made planes are exactly what the name implies... total garbage.
You really have to ask yourself why, for instance, Chinese cars don't dominate Western markets.
Maybe it's because the highly developed West protects itself from an onslaught of low-quality Eastern products using technology that is vastly superior to anything China has... and they do this intentionally, something China can't and will never match.
As for a Chinese assault on Taiwan... they’d end up like the British at Dunkirk, if not much worse.
The problem is the Red Witches don't realize it; they're claiming territory that the Red Boot has never ruled and never will.
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#5419 ·
Donna Wells2 said:Can you name a single aircraft that is even remotely as good as a Western or Russian jet, or maybe even half as good as the originals?
Chinese-made planes are exactly what the name implies... total garbage.
You really have to ask yourself why, for instance, Chinese cars don't dominate Western markets.
Maybe it's because the highly developed West protects itself from an onslaught of low-quality Eastern products using technology that is vastly superior to anything China has... and they do this intentionally, something China can't and will never match.
As for a Chinese assault on Taiwan... they’d end up like the British at Dunkirk, if not much worse.
The problem is the Red Witches don't realize it; they're claiming territory that the Red Boot has never ruled and never will.

And if we look at the parallels with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the reason Ukrainians were scavenging through piles of gear at the start of the war was because that cheap Chinese trash, like those Yellow River tires, just kept exploding on them.
William Anderson5 William Anderson5 Active Member
219 messages
joined Jan 2013
#5420 ·
I honestly don't see how Putin can sell the mobilization narrative. For six months, the Russian media has been blaring about how this entire operation is going exactly according to plan, and now they’re claiming any retreats are just "planned maneuvers." And then, out of nowhere, we get mobilization? Even with all the brainwashing, people are going to start asking questions... It would be even worse if they actually admitted to the Russian losses and launched a mobilization because of them; that would be the moment Russians truly realize they're dying en masse in this conflict. That's when you'll see young men doing everything in their power to avoid being sent to die in Ukraine. You also have to consider that Putin's most fragile support base is precisely the younger generation—the very people he needs to sacrifice for his ideology.

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