CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online log in · register
Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 366 views · 9.2K replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
William Cooper11 William Cooper11 Active Member
129 messages
joined Mar 2013
#7021 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Stalin managed to field armies numbering in the tens and millions, and he kept them fed.
Seventy years later, Russia can certainly manage that too.

No matter how this war wraps up, Russia’s demographics are going to crater. Eventually, the only ones left playing the nuclear chicken game will be the Russians and the Chinese.
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#7022 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Stalin managed to field armies numbering in the tens and millions, and he kept them fed.
Seventy years later, Russia can certainly manage that too.

Sure, they can feed them—but being able to put bread on a table doesn't mean you can win a war. It’s a massive oversight to think that way. A soldier needs more than just half a kilo of bread a day; they need rifles, uniforms, boots, ammo, tanks, fuel, transport trucks... the whole damn kit. You can't march an army on sourdough alone.
https://www.geopolitika.news/vojna-p...-spasile-sssr/

MILITARY HISTORY
Arctic Convoys in World War II: How Allied Supplies Saved the USSR
hiddeneagle98 hiddeneagle98 Regular
300 messages
joined Nov 2023
#7023 ·
Sam Alvarez4 said:Whenever I read comments like that, I have to wonder what parallel universe some people are living in? 🤦

France: they aren't energy-dependent on Russia, and they certainly aren't unarmed like the US was in 1991.

Just saw your reply. Let me correct myself: it isn't just France...

That’s what I used to think too, but it turns out the Russians found ways to squeeze the French energetically speaking. From what I gather, they’re importing over 30% from Nigeria, and Nigeria is basically playing both sides and pulling them toward Russia... that puts the French in an even tighter spot than everyone else because replacing that much uranium isn't exactly a walk in the park. On top of that, half their nuclear plants are scheduled for major overhauls within the next year... things aren't looking pretty for Macron's administration.
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#7024 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Stalin managed to field armies numbering in the tens and millions, and he kept them fed.
Seventy years later, Russia can certainly manage that too.

Not really.

By the end of the war in Europe, Stalin had fewer than 5 million soldiers—some data suggests about 4.75 million.
Back at the start of 1944, the Red Army had roughly 6.2 million troops in Europe.

Just for context, the Western Allies had about 6.4 million troops in Europe by April 1945 across all fronts—that's over a million more than Stalin’s army.

Seventy years later, maybe Russia can do that today too.

That sounds like something for the naive.
They can't even properly supply a quarter of a million people, despite those supposedly massive stockpiles of everything under the sun.
From the very beginning of the invasion, their logistics have been a complete disaster. Once the Himars started leveling warehouses and other vital targets deep behind the lines, the Russians started losing even the basic supply routes needed to hold their current positions.

And what's the solution? Just throw more people at it?
They still don't have enough artillery, tanks, or armored vehicles. They lack ammo, they lack fuel... honestly, even food supplies are looking pretty shaky.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#7025 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Stalin managed to field armies numbering in the tens and millions, and he kept them fed.
Seventy years later, Russia can certainly manage that too.

Yeah, right. You notice how the American public is practically begging to send aid to the military? That’s just like how Stalin used to beg the Americans and the British.
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#7026 ·
hiddeneagle98 said:That’s what I used to think too, but it turns out the Russians found ways to squeeze the French energetically speaking. From what I gather, they’re importing over 30% from Nigeria, and Nigeria is basically playing both sides and pulling them toward Russia... that puts the French in an even tighter spot than everyone else because replacing that much uranium isn't exactly a walk in the park. On top of that, half their nuclear plants are scheduled for major overhauls within the next year... things aren't looking pretty for Macron's administration.

If Nigeria keeps acting up, the USA might just have to go over there and deliver some democracy. 🤣
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#7027 ·

bluemason3 said:That's only true in Russia. Between the reluctance to commit to an offensive war and the state-controlled media, things could shift very quickly there.

Ukraine isn't some medieval autocracy like Russia. Even if you factor in the corruption, swapping out the administration wouldn't change much right now. The public sentiment is pretty much aligned with the current direction, and they aren't exactly looking to roll over for the Russians or make any radical pivots.

This conflict will grind on until someone is forced to surrender militarily. Putin isn't going to step down voluntarily, and in Ukraine, a change in leadership isn't necessary or particularly useful at this stage.

Ukraine is entirely dependent on the West. At any given moment, they could receive a single memo telling them to just sit down at the negotiating table. It’s funny how people forget—it’s not like we didn't go through our own version of this back in '95.
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#7028 ·
William Cooper11 said:No matter how this war wraps up, Russia’s demographics are going to crater. Eventually, the only ones left playing the nuclear chicken game will be the Russians and the Chinese.

Let’s assume you're right for a moment.
Do you honestly think that's any better?
The world exists in a incredibly fragile balance.
Suppose an A-bomba hits Taiwan. Just forget about car manufacturing, smartphones, or computers ever again... there wouldn't be any chips coming out of those Taiwanese factories. Sure, someone else might eventually step up to fill the void, but in the meantime? The industry is already struggling with chip shortages as it is. If production stops entirely, we aren't just talking about a recession; we're talking about an industrial apocalypse.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine if Russia and China start throwing A-bombas around—what if one drifts toward Australia or Japan, much like that drone did over Washington, D.C.?
Think about the atmospheric impact from millions of tons of radioactive dust.
I recall reading some estimates regarding a "minor" nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. The projections suggested it would plunge the Earth into a mini ice age, leading to over a billion deaths from starvation.
A conflict between China and Russia would be significantly more devastating than anything seen between India and Pakistan.

Any sort of nuclear conflict is essentially the end of civilization.
Perhaps not the end of the human race, but certainly the end of our civilization as we know it.

Finally, a word to the optimists who believe NATO could somehow dismantle Russia in a nuclear exchange without receiving a devastating response in kind. Even if that were true, billions would still perish globally from famine. The sheer volume of radioactive material and fallout in the atmosphere would trigger a mini ice age, causing global food production to collapse completely.
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#7029 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:Ukraine is entirely dependent on the West. At any given moment, they could receive a single memo telling them to just sit down at the negotiating table. It’s funny how people forget—it’s not like we didn't go through our own version of this back in '95.

Why on earth would the West want to do that?
Aside from all the nonsense about Russia being provoked and other nonsense, it actually serves Western interests perfectly to see Russia drained militarily.
If I were running things in the West, I’d keep sending weapons to Ukraine as long as the Ukrainians still have the will to fight. Why would I ever do Russia a favor?
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#7030 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:Ukraine is entirely dependent on the West. At any given moment, they could receive a single memo telling them to just sit down at the negotiating table. It’s funny how people forget—it’s not like we didn't go through our own version of this back in '95.

Maybe, but it would be pretty foolish to 😁

Matthew Young35 said:Let’s assume you're right for a moment.
Do you honestly think that's any better?
The world exists in a incredibly fragile balance.
Suppose an A-bomba hits Taiwan. Just forget about car manufacturing, smartphones, or computers ever again... there wouldn't be any chips coming out of those Taiwanese factories. Sure, someone else might eventually step up to fill the void, but in the meantime? The industry is already struggling with chip shortages as it is. If production stops entirely, we aren't just talking about a recession; we're talking about an industrial apocalypse.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine if Russia and China start throwing A-bombas around—what if one drifts toward Australia or Japan, much like that drone did over Washington, D.C.?
Think about the atmospheric impact from millions of tons of radioactive dust.
I recall reading some estimates regarding a "minor" nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. The projections suggested it would plunge the Earth into a mini ice age, leading to over a billion deaths from starvation.
A conflict between China and Russia would be significantly more devastating than anything seen between India and Pakistan.

Any sort of nuclear conflict is essentially the end of civilization.
Perhaps not the end of the human race, but certainly the end of our civilization as we know it.

Finally, a word to the optimists who believe NATO could somehow dismantle Russia in a nuclear exchange without receiving a devastating response in kind. Even if that were true, billions would still perish globally from famine. The sheer volume of radioactive material and fallout in the atmosphere would trigger a mini ice age, causing global food production to collapse completely.

I get that these scenarios rely on everyone activating their entire declared strategic arsenals. That's the absolute worst-case scenario, but I'm not sure it's inevitable. Plus, especially with these non-transparent dictatorial regimes, it's questionable how much they actually have ready to go. The fallout from smaller tactical nukes isn't nearly as massive. If I recall correctly, depending on the yield and the weather, it's only a few kilometers to a few dozen. 🤔

Though, in a way, that's actually worse. Reducing the risk might embolden someone to push the button before it becomes necessary in an era where super-massive nukes used to dominate the arsenals. 🤔
Carol Johnson21 Carol Johnson21 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2023
#7031 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Let’s assume you're right for a moment.
Do you honestly think that's any better?
The world exists in a incredibly fragile balance.
Suppose an A-bomba hits Taiwan. Just forget about car manufacturing, smartphones, or computers ever again... there wouldn't be any chips coming out of those Taiwanese factories. Sure, someone else might eventually step up to fill the void, but in the meantime? The industry is already struggling with chip shortages as it is. If production stops entirely, we aren't just talking about a recession; we're talking about an industrial apocalypse.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine if Russia and China start throwing A-bombas around—what if one drifts toward Australia or Japan, much like that drone did over Washington, D.C.?
Think about the atmospheric impact from millions of tons of radioactive dust.
I recall reading some estimates regarding a "minor" nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. The projections suggested it would plunge the Earth into a mini ice age, leading to over a billion deaths from starvation.
A conflict between China and Russia would be significantly more devastating than anything seen between India and Pakistan.

Any sort of nuclear conflict is essentially the end of civilization.
Perhaps not the end of the human race, but certainly the end of our civilization as we know it.

Finally, a word to the optimists who believe NATO could somehow dismantle Russia in a nuclear exchange without receiving a devastating response in kind. Even if that were true, billions would still perish globally from famine. The sheer volume of radioactive material and fallout in the atmosphere would trigger a mini ice age, causing global food production to collapse completely.

No, the real optimists are the ones convinced that Russians are too dim-witted to realize that dropping a nuke means signing their own death warrants just minutes later.

Yes, the world is armed to the teeth with nukes, and nobody is waiting on Bog V Putin to pass judgment. Any idiot could pull the trigger at any moment—so why hasn't it happened? Just imagine: the idea that "when nations start waving nukes around, someone might accidentally trip and fire one" is nothing more than a cartoon plot or a wet dream for apocalypse junkies.

Discussing this is ultimately pointless. Nukes function as a mutual deterrent; both sides hold them precisely so they aren't used.

The other issue is the argument that everyone should just ban them altogether.
Cowardly Europe stripped the Ukrainians of their deterrent and guaranteed them non-aggression, only to now wash their hands of a "war that isn't theirs," offering up Ukrainian bodies and territory on the altar of the god of war, Bog V Putin.

And sure, naturally, NATO would steamroll Russia in a direct confrontation like a shallow creek. After all, the Russians can barely handle mobilized Ukrainians with half of NATO's arsenal, let alone professional troops. And to face those professional troops, you'd probably need two million Russians—specifically the ones currently clogging up the flight paths trying to flee the country.
Jessica Peterson2 Jessica Peterson2 Active Member
214 messages
joined Sep 2008
#7032 ·
Sandra Harris2 said:I wonder how the Mad King plans on spinning this to the Russian public.
First he announces a "special military operation" to "denazify Ukraine," calls for trials and death sentences for the Azov soldiers, and threatens all sorts of barbaric atrocities... then suddenly, he's sending them off to Turkey for a vacation.

It looks like his... The little oligarch... More important than the sacred mission you set for yourself... ☕

By the way, word is already getting around... The "referendum" results... 🕺

Naturally, the 🙂Kremlin agitprop machines in their official statements won't even mention the Azov fighters; instead, they're busy bragging about how they rescued 50 Russian heroes from the Ukrainian Nazi hellscape.
Kate Lewis3 Kate Lewis3 Active Member
159 messages
joined Feb 2022
#7033 ·
Joshua Myers432 said:Ukraine is entirely dependent on the West. At any given moment, they could receive a single memo telling them to just sit down at the negotiating table. It’s funny how people forget—it’s not like we didn't go through our own version of this back in '95.

And the West—meaning the U.S., let's be real—learned from its own mistakes that it wasn't exactly a brilliant move. Some nations just aren't built for diplomacy; sometimes, the only way to teach a lesson is a heavy hand.

Bottom line: in Ukraine, this won't happen. As long as they have the muscle to keep chasing the Russians, they’re going to keep going.
wiredfalcon2 wiredfalcon2 Regular
491 messages
joined Mar 2005
#7034 ·
hiddeneagle98 said:The Americans really stepped up and handled business here... the UK did their part too, I guess. Honestly, the European Union has been nothing but an embarrassment lately... except for the Poles and a few others who actually seem to have a backbone.

Is that what your local euroskeptic news outlets drilled into your head? Seriously, just look at which single country poured the most money into training Ukrainians between 2014 and 2022—before the war even started. Or better yet, check the reports on how much weaponry has been shipped to Ukraine from EU soil while leaders kept quiet about the specifics for security reasons or to maintain a strategic edge.

The EU is basically a punching bag for every euroskeptic bully out there because everything is happening "so far away." Since those stories don't reach every backwater corner of the states, people can just feed their own sense of self-importance and nationalism by attacking an opponent that isn't fighting back. Most people aren't even following the details, and the local media loves feeding them sensationalist headlines like "Putin mocked the EU," while the local useful idiots push nonsense like "sanctions hurt the EU more than Russia." It's all total nonsense.

Since this whole conflict kicked off in February 2022, the EU hasn't been anything but solid.
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#7035 ·
Medvedchuk has been handed back to Russia as part of this prisoner exchange.

Viktor Medvedchuk, the most prominent captive released by Ukraine in a prisoner swap with Russia , is a close friend of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia Who Had acted as The Kremlin ’ sa primary agent of influence in Ukraine for years

As a high-level advisor to President Volodymyr Zelensky Said on Wednesday , in exchange for more Than 200 Ukrainian fighters including commanders of The Azov Battalion , Who have been celebrated as heroes in Ukraine for their last-stand defense of Mariupol, Mr. Medvedchuk—a major political figure and oligarch—was released alongside various Russian pilots and senior military officials. Can we even begin to grasp the implications of such a move? This represents the single largest prisoner exchange seen during this entire seven-month conflict.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/22/w...-released.html
jadetinker85 jadetinker85 Regular
446 messages
joined Jan 2024
#7036 ·
Jessica Peterson2 said:Naturally, the 🙂Kremlin agitprop machines in their official statements won't even mention the Azov fighters; instead, they're busy bragging about how they rescued 50 Russian heroes from the Ukrainian Nazi hellscape.

So, did that neighbor you were walking the dog with finally sober up regarding the war in Ukraine?
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#7037 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Let’s assume you're right for a moment.
Do you honestly think that's any better?
The world exists in a incredibly fragile balance.
Suppose an A-bomba hits Taiwan. Just forget about car manufacturing, smartphones, or computers ever again... there wouldn't be any chips coming out of those Taiwanese factories. Sure, someone else might eventually step up to fill the void, but in the meantime? The industry is already struggling with chip shortages as it is. If production stops entirely, we aren't just talking about a recession; we're talking about an industrial apocalypse.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Imagine if Russia and China start throwing A-bombas around—what if one drifts toward Australia or Japan, much like that drone did over Washington, D.C.?
Think about the atmospheric impact from millions of tons of radioactive dust.
I recall reading some estimates regarding a "minor" nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. The projections suggested it would plunge the Earth into a mini ice age, leading to over a billion deaths from starvation.
A conflict between China and Russia would be significantly more devastating than anything seen between India and Pakistan.

Any sort of nuclear conflict is essentially the end of civilization.
Perhaps not the end of the human race, but certainly the end of our civilization as we know it.

Finally, a word to the optimists who believe NATO could somehow dismantle Russia in a nuclear exchange without receiving a devastating response in kind. Even if that were true, billions would still perish globally from famine. The sheer volume of radioactive material and fallout in the atmosphere would trigger a mini ice age, causing global food production to collapse completely.

Look, I know nuclear weapons are scary, but we've already dealt with contamination before. Back in the 50s and 60s, the world didn't suddenly slide into a new ice age. For instance, those American thermonuclear tests in the 50s leaked radiation across half the Pacific—even reaching Japan, where they actually found traces while cleaning up Fukushima. And that Soviet Tsar bomb? That 50-megaton beast probably contaminated the whole planet.

There have been about 2,000 nuclear tests globally, and a huge chunk of them were atmospheric. I guess we’re pretty small targets, and honestly, we've already survived a bit of a nuclear war in terms of fallout.
rowdyraven112 rowdyraven112 Active Member
248 messages
joined Jun 2024
#7038 ·
jadetinker85 said:So, did that neighbor you were walking the dog with finally sober up regarding the war in Ukraine?

Nobody’s sobered up about the war in Ukraine. Not the pro-Ukraine side, not the pro-Russia side. Everyone's just living by "Ignorance is Blessing." It’s going to come back to haunt them one day. ☕
jadetinker85 jadetinker85 Regular
446 messages
joined Jan 2024
#7039 ·
Sean Watson3 said:The more I dwell on these protests, the more they turn my stomach.

You aren't protesting for a cause; you're protesting to save your own skin.

The time for outcry was when Russia invaded Ukraine, not now.

In short, it’s fine if Ukrainians perish as long as we stay safe—but the moment our own lives are at risk, suddenly everyone's out in the streets.

If this war had swung in Russia's favor, how many of these protesters would actually be out there?

The true patriots are sitting in prison, and if there were any more of them left, the jails wouldn't even have the room to hold them.

There were protests back then too, and they were arresting people and sending them to Siberia just the same. Honestly, the West could probably take down Putin quite easily, but why bother if the people are just going to choose the same path all over again?
gentlerider7 gentlerider7 Regular
291 messages
joined Jan 2021
#7040 ·
boldotter2 said:Look, I know nuclear weapons are scary, but we've already dealt with contamination before. Back in the 50s and 60s, the world didn't suddenly slide into a new ice age. For instance, those American thermonuclear tests in the 50s leaked radiation across half the Pacific—even reaching Japan, where they actually found traces while cleaning up Fukushima. And that Soviet Tsar bomb? That 50-megaton beast probably contaminated the whole planet.

There have been about 2,000 nuclear tests globally, and a huge chunk of them were atmospheric. I guess we’re pretty small targets, and honestly, we've already survived a bit of a nuclear war in terms of fallout.

The whole nuclear winter scenario is basically built on the absolute worst-case nightmare: both superpowers dumping their entire arsenals at once during an era when those stockpiles were seven times larger than what we have today. So, does it necessarily have to be the total apocalypse Sagan described—you know, practically the end of all life on Earth?—maybe not, but it would certainly mean the end of modern civilization as we know it, wouldn't it?

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads