Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Anthony Perez9 said:Link? 🙂

Megan Thomas5 said:Honestly, I couldn't care less. If the choice is between wiping out the entire world or letting Ukraine fall, I’ll take the global meltdown every single time. Ukraine has to fight for itself, even if it means the end of humanity. To hell with the world if we just sit back and let tyrants get whatever they want.

analogbear70 said:This is a pretty ugly attack and a complete deflection of the argument. Every single post starts with the claim that Russia is the aggressor and that they don't deserve an inch of Ukrainian land, followed by more of this nonsense. I've been following the situation in Ukraine intensely for over ten years. It's tough living with an aggressor in your backyard, but you manage. You wait for better times to make a move. Even the old Republic of Ragusa survived under much worse conditions. Since the Maidan, we've needed more wisdom than anything else. None of that changes the fact that the aggressor is guilty. There's no point in talking at this level. I'm out. Thanks.

Larry Sanchez7 said:+

That's what I've been saying from the jump.
If you give a tyrant an inch, they'll take a mile. If you don't put a stop to them, there's never gonna be an end to it...

analogbear5 said:Crimea, Luhansk Oblast, and Donetsk—all under temporary UN administration until things actually settle down. We’d need a massive census to track everyone who fled or was kicked out of those occupied zones and get them back on the voter rolls. Then, after at least a year of campaigning, we run a referendum on the status. Whether it's Ukraine, independence, or Russia. Toss in some amnesty deals and stuff like that once an agreement is reached.

analogbear5 said:Crimea, Luhansk Oblast, and Donetsk—all under temporary UN administration until things actually settle down. We’d need a massive census to track everyone who fled or was kicked out of those occupied zones and get them back on the voter rolls. Then, after at least a year of campaigning, we run a referendum on the status. Whether it's Ukraine, independence, or Russia. Toss in some amnesty deals and stuff like that once an agreement is reached.

Nathan Evans78 said:It’s honestly heartbreaking to watch these videos coming out of Russia showing the mobilization efforts. 😢

Kate Cook27 said:I’m mostly on board with this—except for the part about Russia. Wouldn't that just be a win for them? Honestly, regardless of how people vote, just having the option to join Russia would be a massive prize in itself. If we go down that road, wouldn't every other country start attacking its neighbors just to call for UN intervention and referendums if they lose ground on the battlefield? It feels like we'd basically be handing Putin a free pass.🤔

Larry Sanchez7 said:+

That's what I've been saying from the jump.
If you give a tyrant an inch, they'll take a mile. If you don't put a stop to them, there's never gonna be an end to it...

Carol Johnson21 said:The people fleeing are those who actually possess the resources and the means to leave. Most aren't running because they disagree with the war; they're running from mobilization.
How many Russians have actually made it to Mexico since February? And would you really call them anti-Putin? No, they fled to escape sanctions.
It wouldn't surprise me if 80% of these defectors weren't wearing "Z" patches on their shirts just yesterday.😁
And if Russia starts making headway, don't be shocked to see them marching in support through the streets of Munich.

I feel for the poor minorities trapped in these backwater regions. This isn't even their war. They'll be the ones sent to the front lines while they can't even scrape together a few thousand euros for a plane ticket.

@Ivane, don't wait until the absolute last second.

Timothy Nelson5 said:I suppose there would have been plenty of other conditions to consider as well. Maybe even more than we’re currently accounting for, I guess.
The prosecution of war criminals... I mean, all those leaders from the Donbas regions really ought to face an international tribunal, along with everyone responsible for the atrocities since the horrors in Bucha. Maybe even the top brass in Russia would be granted some kind of immunity at that stage, provided they actually foot the bill for reparations to Ukraine. I guess even if Putin stayed in power, Russia would still be stuck under sanctions, though perhaps they'd be slightly less suffocating than they are now.

Maybe this would give Russia a way to walk away with at least a shred of dignity intact. I guess. It’s a long shot, but perhaps there's some path forward where they don't have to lose face entirely. Or maybe not. Hard to say.

Luvre said:I’d love to see an actual, concrete source for that claim. Not just some vague,
"I read it somewhere once" nonsense—you know, the usual way people try to pass off half-remembered nonsense as facts.

Carol Johnson21 said:Nobody ever actually wins when it comes to UN-controlled zones. Why on earth would Ukrainians agree to that? We’ve seen decades of massive territories being completely paralyzed by such arrangements. The Russians aren't even in a position to demand them. Maybe Crimea, perhaps—but even then, it would likely end up under some sort of UN oversight eventually.
This whole mobilization push and the nuclear threats? It's nothing more than bluster—just another hollow bluff on the front lines. We’re talking about raw manpower: poorly equipped, untrained, and completely demoralized. This isn't a fresh wave of strength. If they arrive at all, it’ll be just before winter to hold the line during a lull in fighting. And then everything will fall apart again come spring. Same old story with Putin.

darkhawk30 said:Sure, but they aren't even needed by the Ukrainians.
First off, they have no idea who they can actually trust.
Second, they barely have enough food or housing for their own people, let alone a massive influx of prisoners or whatever status these people would end up with.

They’re truly pathetic. Honestly, it might be better if that scumbag just sent them to Siberia; they'd probably have a better shot there. They're miserable, but then again, these people are miserable too. You can't tell which group is worse.

Brolin said:Look, I really don't have the energy for these kinds of arguments. God, you jumped down my throat so fast—I can already tell I’m gonna spend the next few posts defending myself against being called some kind of Russophile or whatever. Not worth it.

The fact that Ukrainians are holding their own after receiving over $30 billion in aid, years of intensive NATO training, intel, and all that logistics doesn't mean the Russian army is useless—it just means the Americans are miles ahead of everyone else.

Brolin said:The fact that Ukrainians are crushing them after receiving over $30 billion in aid, years of intensive NATO training, intel, and all that logistics doesn't mean the Russian army is useless—it means the Americans are miles ahead of everyone else.

wiredfalcon2 said:The biggest arms exporter to Ukraine between 2014 and 2020, supplying more than $1.7 billion in weaponry:
https://www.nzz.ch/international/ukr...7?reduced=true

https://www.lopinion.fr/internationa...invasion-russe

$1.7 billion in aid back in 2021
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/2022050...russian-troops

In the currently tense situation, the French government has however refrained from large announcements of new weapon deliveries.