Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Paul Anderson7 said:It feels like they’re living in an entirely different reality, honestly. They just can't stomach the idea of taking responsibility for the mess they've made, so they have to go looking for someone else to blame because admitting their own role is simply off the table for them.

I can't help but wonder how the discourse would shift if the much-maligned West started talking about using nuclear weapons to wipe out Russia or systematically eliminate its population. It’s pure madness.

In a metaphorical sense, they're like that "spoiled brat" type
who refuses to play nice with anyone and insists they're always right.

James Phillips92 said:Yeah—Russia was selling us weapons, but so were the Ukrainians.

Precisely. Both sides—and plenty of others, through back channels or otherwise—were selling. Most of it was just old stock pulled from the former USSR arsenals, peddled to anyone with the cash, including us. Looking at the footage from this recent mobilization, it seems to me their warehouses are running dangerously thin. It’s as if someone intentionally obscured the true state of the armory reserves. Perhaps that explains why the logistics commander was suddenly relieved of duty (I believe he's the second one lately, though who can even keep track anymore...).

crimsonwolf26 said:The Russian Federation is made up of 22 different republics; honestly, it would be great to see some momentum building for them to finally break away from Russia.

Anything can happen down the road—so I wouldn't rule that out. It's like a slow burn; the Russians have already set the whole thing in motion.

It would be fascinating to find out—assuming such data even exists—exactly how many Russian soldiers have been kicked out of service due to liver cirrhosis and related health issues...

Kimberly Perez82 said:It is all very easy for you people to act brave when it involves risking someone else's children. Honestly, it’s quite something how much everyone suddenly cares about the democracy of some distant country—a place most of you couldn't even point to on a map six months ago. I will say it again: this is absolutely not the moment for the hawks who would happily sacrifice foreign kids for the sake of a hollow concept of democracy that doesn't truly exist anywhere. No, what we need right now is common sense, extreme caution, and a genuine push for compromise so we don't all end up facing a global catastrophe. The only logical path forward is to provide Putin with a way to step back without looking like a complete loser.

And I guess that "Compromise" just means giving Putin whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, because let's face it—he doesn't actually do compromises. It’s either his way or nothing at all.

gentlerider7 said:The Russians can just pack up and leave Ukraine along with whatever territory they actually claim—doesn't that sound awfully familiar to anyone watching this unfold?

"State Duma deputy Mikhail Sheremet, hailing from the Crimea region, basically signaled the start of a massive exodus of Russian-aligned territories out of Ukraine following the referendums held in Donbas and other areas under the control of the Russian Federation. That’s what RIA Novosti is reporting.

“[President Volodymyr Zelenskyy] has made it crystal clear more than once that there’s no room for Russians in Ukraine, so they've decided to head out. They should just take their territories with them... Honestly, the Kyiv regime shouldn't be complaining about holding these referendums. We're seeing the beginning of a huge exodus of lands that are historically Russian leaving Ukraine. These are places returning to Russia,” Sheremet claimed.

He went on to argue that, unlike the West, Russia actually respects the "right of people to self-determination," which is why they'll be backing the choices made by the people in Donbas..."

https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog..._x_tr_pto=wapp

It’s all a carbon copy of the 90s in America. Literally everything. It's the exact same playbook and the KGB's fingerprints are all over it.

gentlerider7 said:The Russians can just pack up and leave Ukraine along with whatever territory they actually claim—doesn't that sound awfully familiar to anyone watching this unfold?

"State Duma deputy Mikhail Sheremet, hailing from the Crimea region, basically signaled the start of a massive exodus of Russian-aligned territories out of Ukraine following the referendums held in Donbas and other areas under the control of the Russian Federation. That’s what RIA Novosti is reporting.

“[President Volodymyr Zelenskyy] has made it crystal clear more than once that there’s no room for Russians in Ukraine, so they've decided to head out. They should just take their territories with them... Honestly, the Kyiv regime shouldn't be complaining about holding these referendums. We're seeing the beginning of a huge exodus of lands that are historically Russian leaving Ukraine. These are places returning to Russia,” Sheremet claimed.

He went on to argue that, unlike the West, Russia actually respects the "right of people to self-determination," which is why they'll be backing the choices made by the people in Donbas..."

https://www-gazeta-ru.translate.goog..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Yeah, sure, because Chechnya is such a shining example of that principle in action.

I saw someone on an online forum claiming they don't believe a single civilian has died in Ukraine just because there aren't specific names attached to them yet. It’s wild—so many news reports and deep dives, and people still refuse to accept the reality of the casualties.

Carol Johnson21 said:A tactical nuclear strike might be the only scenario we can call a certainty right now.
If that happens, the West will lose every single shred of moral high ground used to justify withholding the tools Ukrainians need to defend themselves.

The real weak link? It’s those self-righteous Westerners who will view a nuclear move as definitive proof that Putin isn't bluffing—concluding, therefore, that we should just let him have his way.
In reality, the true vulnerability Putin is exploiting is the pampered class of Westerners: the ones who paradoxically claim to despise Western "decadence" while being the very people responsible for its collapse in the first place.

Kate Cook27 said:I keep coming back to this when I write about how likely a tactical scenario is—it all boils down to whether Putin thinks he can force everyone to walk away from the war by dropping a nuke somewhere. Sure, it could end the fighting, but it would be a fake peace. Russia would just come back later—plus, it sends a message to plenty of other countries that they can start wars and grab territory whenever they want. It reminds me of how people once tried to negotiate with Hitler, which just ended in millions of deaths. Has anyone actually learned anything? We saw the same thing with Crimea—everyone just looked the other way. I don't know how many politicians realize that giving in to an aggressor just invites more violence. You buy peace today, but you pay for much worse unrest tomorrow.
The best deterrent right now might be the idea that Russia will get too distracted by its own mess—especially with this mobilization stuff going on. I was reading about a village where literally every man has been drafted.

"Tactical nuclear" is just the latest buzzword following hypersonic missiles. A tactical strike isn't some "likely scenario"—Russia wouldn't gain a damn thing from it (unless they somehow luck out by dropping 20 at once, maybe?), and the political fallout would be absolute suicide. Using any kind of nuclear weapon is a disaster waiting to happen.

darkhawk30 said:"The level of official Russophobia in the West is unprecedented. It's honestly grotesque," Sergey Lavrov declared during a heated speech at the United Nations General Assembly.

There is no cure for this.

Lavrov used to actually look like a diplomat. Now he’s just a mouthpiece for a mad dictator. Medvedev is probably even lower if that's even possible.
It's pathetic how much the Russian representatives have degraded themselves.

mistyharbor13 said:Oh, absolutely. Giving in and "playing nice" with guys like Putin and his crew has worked out so incredibly well every single time... I mean, look at the results! I guess if we kept making concessions, Putin would probably just stop at annexing parts of Ukraine. But honestly, tomorrow he might just decide it’s a great idea to march right into the rest of Ukraine or Moldova and claim those as "eternal territories" too. And after that? He’d move on to the next former Warsaw Pact country on his list. He threatens us with nukes every chance he gets, and hey, why shouldn't he if it keeps working? But I guess I'm just the crazy one here for trying to argue with his troll. 🙄

Forgive me, but I have to say, the sheer amount of wisdom you're displaying is highly debatable. This situation is unprecedented—it’s truly extraordinary—and it simply cannot be compared to anything that came before, especially not WWII, because back then, everything didn't hinge on one single button. But I get it, isn't it easy to play the hero from a distance? It’s so much simpler to just cheer blindly and demand that neither side gives an inch, acting all tough and righteous. It actually surprises me, quite frankly, to see such a lack of basic common sense from some people in this thread. In my view, we should give Putin a way to back down without feeling like he's been totally crushed, mostly because he likely realizes he's made a massive mess of things himself. However, if what you're suggesting happens—if Russia decides to push even further—then there is absolutely zero rationality left in the room, and we can be certain we're all heading straight into that absolute catastrophe. But hey, I suppose it doesn't matter if we're technically "right" while we defend some corrupt foreign democracy that we don't even have any real connection to, does it?

rowdytiger13 said:Lavrov used to actually look like a diplomat. Now he’s just a mouthpiece for a mad dictator. Medvedev is probably even lower if that's even possible.
It's pathetic how much the Russian representatives have degraded themselves.

Never was. Always been incredibly stupid.

Kimberly Perez82 said:It is all very easy for you people to act brave when it involves risking someone else's children. Honestly, it’s quite something how much everyone suddenly cares about the democracy of some distant country—a place most of you couldn't even point to on a map six months ago. I will say it again: this is absolutely not the moment for the hawks who would happily sacrifice foreign kids for the sake of a hollow concept of democracy that doesn't truly exist anywhere. No, what we need right now is common sense, extreme caution, and a genuine push for compromise so we don't all end up facing a global catastrophe. The only logical path forward is to provide Putin with a way to step back without looking like a complete loser.

And you're even better, acting like you get to hand out other people's land and "kids" like candy! Feel free to gift him half your apartment, your backyard, or your entire paycheck then. Since you clearly don't have the authority to decide for everyone else.🙂

Kimberly Perez82 said:That’s basically how I—and honestly, pretty much the rest of the world—see it. That is the heavy price of making a deal. Once that's done, the goal should be to cripple Russia's economy until they have no choice but to agree to voluntary nuclear disarmament, just so we don't find ourselves staring down the barrel of a situation like this ever again. In my view, China isn't acting quite as irrationally; they won't let themselves get backed into a corner like this. It's Russia that stands as the singular danger.

The rest of the world couldn't care less what you think.

Kimberly Perez82 said:That’s basically how I—and honestly, pretty much the rest of the world—see it. That is the heavy price of making a deal. Once that's done, the goal should be to cripple Russia's economy until they have no choice but to agree to voluntary nuclear disarmament, just so we don't find ourselves staring down the barrel of a situation like this ever again. In my view, China isn't acting quite as irrationally; they won't let themselves get backed into a corner like this. It's Russia that stands as the singular danger.

And what exactly are you and your "global community" going to say when the guy you're bowing down to threatens to drop atomic bombs unless those sanctions are lifted?
What's the plan then, hero?

neonpuma30 said:And you're even better, acting like you get to hand out other people's land and "kids" like candy! Feel free to gift him half your apartment, your backyard, or your entire paycheck then. Since you clearly don't have the authority to decide for everyone else.🙂

He should probably just hand over his wife and daughter too, at this rate. It seems he'll sacrifice anything just to save his own skin.

Kimberly Perez82 said:That’s basically how I—and honestly, pretty much the rest of the world—see it. That is the heavy price of making a deal. Once that's done, the goal should be to cripple Russia's economy until they have no choice but to agree to voluntary nuclear disarmament, just so we don't find ourselves staring down the barrel of a situation like this ever again. In my view, China isn't acting quite as irrationally; they won't let themselves get backed into a corner like this. It's Russia that stands as the singular danger.

LOL, are you for real?

After a conflict like this, nobody is going to touch nuclear disarmament. If anything, the countries with half-baked programs will work twice as hard to make sure their tech actually works next time.

Kimberly Perez82 said:You hit the nail on the head, and honestly, this whole mess has been brewing for fifty years already. What's the actual fix here? Do we just push all the way to the edge and sit there praying the other side blinks at the very last second?

In my view—and I might be wrong, but I feel strongly about this—the only way out is to de-escalate this terrifying conflict and isolate Russia until their economy hits such a breaking point that they have no choice but to agree to some sort of detente. But the problem is those various Merkels who helped pave the way for them to reach this current state of blackmailing everyone... they are a massive roadblock. I truly hope they choose to ignore them this time around. But look, there are always candidates for that role; you see it with Orbán and the new government in Italy, and even here in our own domestic politics, there are politicians who seem quite fond of a Russia like this. Just think about everything certain people are holding over here in the States—I'm sure it didn't happen without help from local politicians.

Personally, I find these constant debates about nuclear threats versus appeasement to be utterly excessive.
My stance remains simple: if the Russians actually pull the trigger, they are the ones facing a catastrophe from which they will never recover.
And yes, I believe there are people within both factions that Vladimir Putin aligns with in Russia who are fully aware that a nuclear cloud over America means the end of Russia too.
To me, all this talk about backing down to nuclear threats is nothing more than pure propaganda.

A country possesses nuclear weapons not to use them, but to ensure no one else can use them as leverage against them. Look at what is happening to Ukraine; if the criminal in Moscow hadn't left them armed, he could be waving them around like a toy.
Now, it is the West responding to the threat, a fact confirmed by Jens Stoltenberg from NATO.
It seems obvious to me: if you give in to one fool, five more will show up tomorrow with the exact same threats.

I'm putting you on ignore. I get the impression that your "fear of nukes" can only be cured by some sort of honorable retreat by Russia. Good luck. :mah:

George Robinson43 said:And what exactly are you and your "global community" going to say when the guy you're bowing down to threatens to drop atomic bombs unless those sanctions are lifted?
What's the plan then, hero?

The same thing I'll be doing when I'm having a threesome with Jessica Alba and Natalie Portman.

Kimberly Perez82 said:Forgive me, but I have to say, the sheer amount of wisdom you're displaying is highly debatable. This situation is unprecedented—it’s truly extraordinary—and it simply cannot be compared to anything that came before, especially not WWII, because back then, everything didn't hinge on one single button. But I get it, isn't it easy to play the hero from a distance? It’s so much simpler to just cheer blindly and demand that neither side gives an inch, acting all tough and righteous. It actually surprises me, quite frankly, to see such a lack of basic common sense from some people in this thread. In my view, we should give Putin a way to back down without feeling like he's been totally crushed, mostly because he likely realizes he's made a massive mess of things himself. However, if what you're suggesting happens—if Russia decides to push even further—then there is absolutely zero rationality left in the room, and we can be certain we're all heading straight into that absolute catastrophe. But hey, I suppose it doesn't matter if we're technically "right" while we defend some corrupt foreign democracy that we don't even have any real connection to, does it?

So, according to you, "wisdom" means saving a dictator and making his crimes okay instead of actually stopping him. Oops!🤣