Sanctions on Russia

Milley noted that sanctions "have a very poor track record of deterring aggression

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/05/polit...ict/index.html

They have a historically weak impact, yet we must move past them.

northernangler8 said:Sanctions are going to end up hurting all of us, but honestly, I think Europe is going to take a much harder hit than Russia will—we’re already seeing the cracks with rising costs and the economic mess heading our way. And let’s get one thing straight: Putin isn't some dictator out on a crusade to conquer Europe; you guys need to stop feeding yourselves that nonsense. This is an entirely different kind of conflict. It's essentially a war between NATO and Russia, and I guess Ukraine is just caught in the crossfire of some really misguided political agendas. Instead of actually pushing for peace or a ceasefire, the leaders in Europe are just fueling the fire. By doubling down on sanctions and shipping off weapons, they might just be doing more harm to Ukrainian civilians in the long run.

Actually, sanctions hit Russia the hardest. Period. They're being cut off from Western markets and tech. Nobody makes it big without the West—not even China.

If he wasn't a dictator, his people wouldn't be catching 15-year sentences just for speaking their minds.

Back here in the States, you can talk trash about the government and nobody's coming for you.

Stop falling for the propaganda and the delusions.

Nathan Thomas12 said:So what, should America have just rolled over too?

Still dodging the question. Should America have just rolled over and surrendered?

northernangler8 said:Sanctions are going to end up hurting all of us, but honestly, I think Europe is going to take a much harder hit than Russia will—we’re already seeing the cracks with rising costs and the economic mess heading our way. And let’s get one thing straight: Putin isn't some dictator out on a crusade to conquer Europe; you guys need to stop feeding yourselves that nonsense. This is an entirely different kind of conflict. It's essentially a war between NATO and Russia, and I guess Ukraine is just caught in the crossfire of some really misguided political agendas. Instead of actually pushing for peace or a ceasefire, the leaders in Europe are just fueling the fire. By doubling down on sanctions and shipping off weapons, they might just be doing more harm to Ukrainian civilians in the long run.

They should have just left them to deal with Russia on their own. Let nature take its course... whoever survives, survives.

frozencobra50 said:They should have just left them to deal with Russia on their own. Let nature take its course... whoever survives, survives.

In Bucha, they surrendered immediately, and we all know how that turned out.

northernangler8 said:Sanctions are going to end up hurting all of us, but honestly, I think Europe is going to take a much harder hit than Russia will—we’re already seeing the cracks with rising costs and the economic mess heading our way. And let’s get one thing straight: Putin isn't some dictator out on a crusade to conquer Europe; you guys need to stop feeding yourselves that nonsense. This is an entirely different kind of conflict. It's essentially a war between NATO and Russia, and I guess Ukraine is just caught in the crossfire of some really misguided political agendas. Instead of actually pushing for peace or a ceasefire, the leaders in Europe are just fueling the fire. By doubling down on sanctions and shipping off weapons, they might just be doing more harm to Ukrainian civilians in the long run.

Seriously, are you getting paid for this or do you just live to troll people on here?

He means it. But that’s a different conversation entirely.

Zachary Jackson4 said:He means it. But that’s a different conversation entirely.

As far as I'm concerned, you're in the same boat. Get lost.

northernangler8 said:People like you are nothing more than warmongers. Honestly, I bet there are plenty of people on this forum acting as agitators, whether they're pushing political agendas or just looking for a fight. Just look at what Irish MP Clara Daly has been saying. Sanctions aren't going to stop a war; if anything, they just drag it out. All they really do is punish ordinary citizens while the politicians and the elites stay perfectly fine. Those are the first ones to flee when things actually go south in Ukraine. People like you, who constantly back these conflicts, clearly haven't learned a single thing from history, which is why we keep seeing the same mistakes repeated over and over.

Clara Daly is essentially Putin's lapdog, working alongside her colleague Mick Wallace to support or defend every single dictatorial and criminal regime on the planet within the EU parliament.

The Americans are ashamed of them and have publicly disavowed their actions.

That’s even lower than the level of Putin’s backside....
I feel the same way about people like that...

Regarding the situation with Russia back then, Lenin once said: the worse, the better. I’m not protesting that, because in some ways, Russians are our Slavic brothers. But it's incredible how one wrong assessment or decision can shift the entire course of history. Putin has fallen into a trap, and what's happening to him is ugly to witness. One respectable regional military power—as Obama would call it—a nation valued by the West that was forgiven for Crimea due to its lucrative economic ties with Germany, is turning into a new North Korea. Now, they are being encircled. Ukrainians withstood the initial strike and are receiving more weapons, including offensive gear. A divided democratic public views Putin as a new Hitler, and unfortunately, Russians as the Germans of WWII. Under pressure from this public sentiment, and from both America and the UK, gas and oil imports will soon have to be halted. Concrete military aid for Ukraine is also expected. It's true some countries can't function without Russian gas, but Russia can't sell it to anyone else at those prices either. It will take years to build pipelines for new consumers; for Americans, this is a total victory against both Russia and Germany. Meanwhile, Iranian ambassadors have stepped up, claiming they have all the high-quality oil and massive gas reserves needed. In short, as people might say, a new world order is forming: on one side, the US, EU, Japan, and Australia, and on the other, a cautious China, for whom Russia will become what Belarus is to them now. Off-topic. Has anyone noticed how Russia always seems to collapse exactly when their Mexican allies need them most, like after WWI or during the first Mexican uprising... there is something good in every evil...

Anthony Hill5 said:Clara Daly is essentially Putin's lapdog, working alongside her colleague Mick Wallace to support or defend every single dictatorial and criminal regime on the planet within the EU parliament.

The Americans are ashamed of them and have publicly disavowed their actions.

Oh, absolutely. It seems like anyone who doesn't parrot the officially sanctioned narrative is immediately branded a Russian shill or a spy. I guess we saw how miracle-working media propaganda worked during COVID—if you spread a single lie wide enough across the globe, you can eventually force people to believe only one thing. Most people struggle to think critically on their own, and after being bombarded with lies for long enough, they just stop having an opinion and settle for whatever is shoved down their throats. Back during the pandemic, if you didn't echo exactly what the politicians were saying, you were attacked from every possible angle. They’re doing the exact same thing now. If you don't fall in line, they try to bury you with labels and insults.

The US starts wars everywhere and dismantles any nation that refuses to bow down, all while labeling their leaders as dictators (which is a classic move for Americans). Then, of course, they always show up acting like the heroic saviors. It's the same old story.

It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided to invade to conquer Europe with this tiny little squad of an army. Honestly, I think US domestic politics regarding Ukraine essentially demanded a war. The US has nothing to lose here; they never have to fight a war on their own soil, and we can all see exactly who is profiting from this conflict: America.

Personally, I am strictly against war, but the actions being taken by Europe and Plenković are the complete opposite of that. Zelenskyy hasn't solved anything through negotiations. In fact, it seems like negotiations don't even suit them. I mean, imagine a newly minted Ukrainian politician finding it more convenient to let his people die rather than find a compromise to finally end the fighting.

northernangler8 said:Oh, absolutely. It seems like anyone who doesn't parrot the officially sanctioned narrative is immediately branded a Russian shill or a spy. I guess we saw how miracle-working media propaganda worked during COVID—if you spread a single lie wide enough across the globe, you can eventually force people to believe only one thing. Most people struggle to think critically on their own, and after being bombarded with lies for long enough, they just stop having an opinion and settle for whatever is shoved down their throats. Back during the pandemic, if you didn't echo exactly what the politicians were saying, you were attacked from every possible angle. They’re doing the exact same thing now. If you don't fall in line, they try to bury you with labels and insults.

The US starts wars everywhere and dismantles any nation that refuses to bow down, all while labeling their leaders as dictators (which is a classic move for Americans). Then, of course, they always show up acting like the heroic saviors. It's the same old story.

It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided to invade to conquer Europe with this tiny little squad of an army. Honestly, I think US domestic politics regarding Ukraine essentially demanded a war. The US has nothing to lose here; they never have to fight a war on their own soil, and we can all see exactly who is profiting from this conflict: America.

Personally, I am strictly against war, but the actions being taken by Europe and Plenković are the complete opposite of that. Zelenskyy hasn't solved anything through negotiations. In fact, it seems like negotiations don't even suit them. I mean, imagine a newly minted Ukrainian politician finding it more convenient to let his people die rather than find a compromise to finally end the fighting.

I'm pretty certain Zelenskyy would call a halt to the whole thing in a heartbeat if the Russians just pulled out of Ukraine. You really think Ukrainians would start marching across the border toward Moscow once they got their territory back?

Paul Anderson7 said:I'm pretty certain Zelenskyy would call a halt to the whole thing in a heartbeat if the Russians just pulled out of Ukraine. You really think Ukrainians would start marching across the border toward Moscow once they got their territory back?

Oh, absolutely they would. That’s basically why this whole conflict started—to push the Russians out of Ukraine. It's all about chasing new political fantasies, and the Ukrainian people are the ones paying the price for it. I guess you could say Zelenskyy bears a massive amount of responsibility here; he doesn't seem interested in stopping the fighting, but rather in provoking even more tension. As for why Ukrainians would march on Moscow? I don't see the point.

After the USSR collapsed, Russia essentially gave Ukraine its freedom and stayed out of their business, though they made it very clear that the US military shouldn't be meddling in Ukrainian politics. And that is exactly what happened. A free Ukraine ended up caught in a war just to satisfy NATO's desire for expansion. I suppose that's what happens when you have internal enemies—politicians who drag you into a war that wasn't even necessary.

The Americans just had to come up with a narrative explaining why Putin attacked Ukraine, because obviously, the US isn't going to point the finger at itself.

What does Russia actually have to do with Ukraine? I honestly don't get where they get the nerve to think they have any right to meddle in the decisions of another sovereign nation. It’s pretty ironic, really, considering Russia actually signed off on guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial sovereignty once they gave up those nuclear weapons left over from the USSR. Looking back, giving them up seems like such a massive blunder; if Ukraine had just kept those nukes, Russia would never have even dreamed of attacking.

The reason countries join NATO is pretty simple: they're terrified of Russia. History has shown time and again that you can't take their word for anything, and they'll grab every single opportunity to chase after their imperialist fantasies. Look at Finland and Sweden—they're moving toward joining NATO not because anyone is forcing their hand, but because they feel genuinely threatened by Russia.

If you want someone to blame, it’s Russia and this delusional idea that they’re a superpower entitled to do whatever they want without consequences. People have let them slide far too many times, but it looks like the patience has finally run out. Now, Russia is being forced back into its place, sitting alongside the other pariah states.

None of the NATO members have ever even entertained the thought of invading Russia or seizing its land. Meanwhile, on the flip side, the Russians have been trying nothing but to expand their reach.
Russia is the sole reason this war is happening; I’d say it’s exclusively Putin, though he’s really just a product of the society in Russia, so you could probably blame the whole country. Ukrainians are their own distinct nation, despite Putin himself claiming otherwise. If you can't see the problem with that kind of rhetoric, then you're just another biased troll.

As for the Americans? They basically just exploited Putin's own stupidity and naivety, letting him believe this was going to be an easy win. The US didn't pick up weapons to start a war, or engage in killing, rapes, or genocide. That was all the Russians. No one else. They were the ones who crossed the border, they dropped the bombs, they kill civilians, they rape, they drop cluster bombs on train stations... it's all the Russians.

northernangler8 said:Oh, absolutely they would. That’s basically why this whole conflict started—to push the Russians out of Ukraine. It's all about chasing new political fantasies, and the Ukrainian people are the ones paying the price for it. I guess you could say Zelenskyy bears a massive amount of responsibility here; he doesn't seem interested in stopping the fighting, but rather in provoking even more tension. As for why Ukrainians would march on Moscow? I don't see the point.

After the USSR collapsed, Russia essentially gave Ukraine its freedom and stayed out of their business, though they made it very clear that the US military shouldn't be meddling in Ukrainian politics. And that is exactly what happened. A free Ukraine ended up caught in a war just to satisfy NATO's desire for expansion. I suppose that's what happens when you have internal enemies—politicians who drag you into a war that wasn't even necessary.

The Americans just had to come up with a narrative explaining why Putin attacked Ukraine, because obviously, the US isn't going to point the finger at itself.

So, this "Free Ukraine" is actually being told by Russia what they can and can't do?😁

"Quote:"

William Anderson5 said:So, this "Free Ukraine" is actually being told by Russia what they can and can't do?😁

Just like Belarus.
Putin only recognizes that kind of freedom.

Paul Anderson7 said:What does Russia actually have to do with Ukraine? I honestly don't get where they get the nerve to think they have any right to meddle in the decisions of another sovereign nation. It’s pretty ironic, really, considering Russia actually signed off on guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial sovereignty once they gave up those nuclear weapons left over from the USSR. Looking back, giving them up seems like such a massive blunder; if Ukraine had just kept those nukes, Russia would never have even dreamed of attacking.

The reason countries join NATO is pretty simple: they're terrified of Russia. History has shown time and again that you can't take their word for anything, and they'll grab every single opportunity to chase after their imperialist fantasies. Look at Finland and Sweden—they're moving toward joining NATO not because anyone is forcing their hand, but because they feel genuinely threatened by Russia.

If you want someone to blame, it’s Russia and this delusional idea that they’re a superpower entitled to do whatever they want without consequences. People have let them slide far too many times, but it looks like the patience has finally run out. Now, Russia is being forced back into its place, sitting alongside the other pariah states.

None of the NATO members have ever even entertained the thought of invading Russia or seizing its land. Meanwhile, on the flip side, the Russians have been trying nothing but to expand their reach.
Russia is the sole reason this war is happening; I’d say it’s exclusively Putin, though he’s really just a product of the society in Russia, so you could probably blame the whole country. Ukrainians are their own distinct nation, despite Putin himself claiming otherwise. If you can't see the problem with that kind of rhetoric, then you're just another biased troll.

As for the Americans? They basically just exploited Putin's own stupidity and naivety, letting him believe this was going to be an easy win. The US didn't pick up weapons to start a war, or engage in killing, rapes, or genocide. That was all the Russians. No one else. They were the ones who crossed the border, they dropped the bombs, they kill civilians, they rape, they drop cluster bombs on train stations... it's all the Russians.

This is the kind of naivety everyone falls for. There is no such thing as a truly sovereign state. Our country isn't even truly sovereign. That only exists on paper. Everyone is ruled by someone bigger. That's why what we're seeing in Ukraine is actually a war between two major powers fighting over who gets to dominate and control Ukraine. Do you really think our leadership makes independent decisions? Not a chance. They just do whatever they're told from above; they don't have the backbone to think for themselves. No small country actually calls its own shots.

If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes, they never would have been freed from the Russians. That was the whole point of the deal. Russia allowed Ukraine to enjoy Western comforts in exchange for the nukes. And look what happened once Russia let the West into their politics. The West poked its nose into their business just to stir up a conflict with Russia, and it's the Ukrainians who are paying the price.

Ukraine had no reason to fear Russia, unless they turned their backs on them—which is exactly what the pro-American politicians in power did. Ukraine could have maintained the freedom it had until now if politicians with bad intentions hadn't engineered this war. The U.S. is bothered by Russia, and this is just their attempt to get rid of them. I guess Putin was being patient while watching the U.S. provoke this situation in Ukraine. This war could have started much earlier, but Putin didn't want it. Now, though, he felt like he had no choice because the noose was tightening too much.

NATO attacks subtly and murky, much like a virus. But it’s always there, quietly provoking war. Not directly, but through indirect actions.

northernangler8 said:Oh, absolutely they would. That’s basically why this whole conflict started—to push the Russians out of Ukraine. It's all about chasing new political fantasies, and the Ukrainian people are the ones paying the price for it. I guess you could say Zelenskyy bears a massive amount of responsibility here; he doesn't seem interested in stopping the fighting, but rather in provoking even more tension. As for why Ukrainians would march on Moscow? I don't see the point.

After the USSR collapsed, Russia essentially gave Ukraine its freedom and stayed out of their business, though they made it very clear that the US military shouldn't be meddling in Ukrainian politics. And that is exactly what happened. A free Ukraine ended up caught in a war just to satisfy NATO's desire for expansion. I suppose that's what happens when you have internal enemies—politicians who drag you into a war that wasn't even necessary.

The Americans just had to come up with a narrative explaining why Putin attacked Ukraine, because obviously, the US isn't going to point the finger at itself.

Right. And I guess Ukraine actually started the war by having the Russian Army cross their border and start a massive campaign of destruction and killing. Fascinating logic there.

northernangler8 said:This is the kind of naivety everyone falls for. There is no such thing as a truly sovereign state. Our country isn't even truly sovereign. That only exists on paper. Everyone is ruled by someone bigger. That's why what we're seeing in Ukraine is actually a war between two major powers fighting over who gets to dominate and control Ukraine. Do you really think our leadership makes independent decisions? Not a chance. They just do whatever they're told from above; they don't have the backbone to think for themselves. No small country actually calls its own shots.

If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes, they never would have been freed from the Russians. That was the whole point of the deal. Russia allowed Ukraine to enjoy Western comforts in exchange for the nukes. And look what happened once Russia let the West into their politics. The West poked its nose into their business just to stir up a conflict with Russia, and it's the Ukrainians who are paying the price.

Ukraine had no reason to fear Russia, unless they turned their backs on them—which is exactly what the pro-American politicians in power did. Ukraine could have maintained the freedom it had until now if politicians with bad intentions hadn't engineered this war. The U.S. is bothered by Russia, and this is just their attempt to get rid of them. I guess Putin was being patient while watching the U.S. provoke this situation in Ukraine. This war could have started much earlier, but Putin didn't want it. Now, though, he felt like he had no choice because the noose was tightening too much.

NATO attacks subtly and murky, much like a virus. But it’s always there, quietly provoking war. Not directly, but through indirect actions.

Moscow is circling the drain, and soon enough, Vlad will be joining his buddy Yeltsin. Until then, he can just keep entertaining the masses with his endless stream of verbal diarrhea.

Stop wasting your breath.