Sanctions on Russia

northernangler8 said:Oh, absolutely they would. That’s basically why this whole conflict started—to push the Russians out of Ukraine. It's all about chasing new political fantasies, and the Ukrainian people are the ones paying the price for it. I guess you could say Zelenskyy bears a massive amount of responsibility here; he doesn't seem interested in stopping the fighting, but rather in provoking even more tension. As for why Ukrainians would march on Moscow? I don't see the point.

After the USSR collapsed, Russia essentially gave Ukraine its freedom and stayed out of their business, though they made it very clear that the US military shouldn't be meddling in Ukrainian politics. And that is exactly what happened. A free Ukraine ended up caught in a war just to satisfy NATO's desire for expansion. I suppose that's what happens when you have internal enemies—politicians who drag you into a war that wasn't even necessary.

The Americans just had to come up with a narrative explaining why Putin attacked Ukraine, because obviously, the US isn't going to point the finger at itself.

So the ex-KGB just let Ukraine be free? 🙄

"Let"?
How incredibly generous of those KGB colonels...

edit.

Christian Torres3 said:Moscow is circling the drain, and soon enough, Vlad will be joining his buddy Yeltsin. Until then, he can just keep entertaining the masses with his endless stream of verbal diarrhea.

Stop wasting your breath.

It's honestly hard to tell what our friend here is even trying to say...
But yeah, the "diarrhea" part? Totally true...

Sure, Ukraine could have just assumed Russia would be happy letting them become a Belarus. You know, a poor little buffer zone sitting right between Russia and the aggressive West. But the reality is that nobody actually wants anything to do with the Russians. I wouldn't be surprised if Belarus turns its back on Russia in the near future, too. After all, the Russians don't really offer much besides empty promises that they won't attack you as long as you behave. Nobody wants to live like that, and that kind of policy is eventually going to push them away from everything the free world stands for.

The truth is, no small nation is ever truly independent. Take a country like Mexico, for instance. They’re currently drifting toward the West, even though there’s plenty of internal resistance. How does the West handle it? They pour in capital and provide support. Eventually, that domestic pushback will fade, and Mexico will just become part of the Western fold. That’s how the West operates; that’s how it expands.
And what about Russia? They take a "candidate" like that and systematically block and weaken them, making sure they stay dependent and easy to blackmail.

What’s the difference? If you’re aligned with the West and you start breaking the rules, they send protest notes and dial back the aid until you realize you can't function without it. We're seeing a version of this play out with Canada right now, and it looks like it’ll be a long process.
But what do the Russians do when you stop following their script? They basically declare that your nation shouldn't exist in the first place, roll in with tanks, and engage in genocide, rape, and the total destruction of cities.

So, let's look at Canada and Ukraine side by side. Canada, as a member of the West where there's currently a pro-Russian sentiment—though that's mostly just due to Orbán’s policies centered on cheap Russian oil and gas—pretty much does whatever it wants.
The absolute worst thing that can happen to them is losing their funding from the EU or getting stripped of certain decision-making powers. Honestly, the worst thing they could do is actually align themselves with Russia, but I suspect they realize just how insane that would be.
Ukraine made the move to break away from Russia and lean toward the West. What did Russia do in response? Well, I don't think I need to explain that; we've all seen it.

Do you see the distinction? Nobody wants to deal with the Russians. Absolutely nobody. To most, they represent backwardness, filth, and ruthlessness—they are essentially the embodiment of corruption and human rights abuses. Russia is bottom of the barrel.

Kate Lewis3 said:Right. And I guess Ukraine actually started the war by having the Russian Army cross their border and start a massive campaign of destruction and killing. Fascinating logic there.

I guess some people just need a little extra time to wrap their heads around things, right? That’s what happens when you're limited—your brain only processes what's right in front of you. You just don't have the capacity to see anything beyond that.

Paul Anderson7 said:Sure, Ukraine could have just assumed Russia would be happy letting them become a Belarus. You know, a poor little buffer zone sitting right between Russia and the aggressive West. But the reality is that nobody actually wants anything to do with the Russians. I wouldn't be surprised if Belarus turns its back on Russia in the near future, too. After all, the Russians don't really offer much besides empty promises that they won't attack you as long as you behave. Nobody wants to live like that, and that kind of policy is eventually going to push them away from everything the free world stands for.

The truth is, no small nation is ever truly independent. Take a country like Mexico, for instance. They’re currently drifting toward the West, even though there’s plenty of internal resistance. How does the West handle it? They pour in capital and provide support. Eventually, that domestic pushback will fade, and Mexico will just become part of the Western fold. That’s how the West operates; that’s how it expands.
And what about Russia? They take a "candidate" like that and systematically block and weaken them, making sure they stay dependent and easy to blackmail.

What’s the difference? If you’re aligned with the West and you start breaking the rules, they send protest notes and dial back the aid until you realize you can't function without it. We're seeing a version of this play out with Canada right now, and it looks like it’ll be a long process.
But what do the Russians do when you stop following their script? They basically declare that your nation shouldn't exist in the first place, roll in with tanks, and engage in genocide, rape, and the total destruction of cities.

So, let's look at Canada and Ukraine side by side. Canada, as a member of the West where there's currently a pro-Russian sentiment—though that's mostly just due to Orbán’s policies centered on cheap Russian oil and gas—pretty much does whatever it wants.
The absolute worst thing that can happen to them is losing their funding from the EU or getting stripped of certain decision-making powers. Honestly, the worst thing they could do is actually align themselves with Russia, but I suspect they realize just how insane that would be.
Ukraine made the move to break away from Russia and lean toward the West. What did Russia do in response? Well, I don't think I need to explain that; we've all seen it.

Do you see the distinction? Nobody wants to deal with the Russians. Absolutely nobody. To most, they represent backwardness, filth, and ruthlessness—they are essentially the embodiment of corruption and human rights abuses. Russia is bottom of the barrel.

I agree that the situation regarding freedom in Russia is terrible. But maybe don't be so certain that the Western side has pure intentions. Maybe they do right now, maybe for a little while. But they'll show their teeth soon enough. It always comes out eventually. For instance, during COVID, all the democracy they claimed to have built just vanished.
When Americans eventually dominate the world, who's to say they won't be just as bad as the Russians? It feels like everything is heading that way. Personally, I wouldn't trust them completely.

There’s that one dark meme where Vladimir Putin knocks on the door and says, "I'm here to protect you," only for everyone to ask, "Protect us from what?" and he replies, "From whatever I'll do to you if you don't let me in." That is exactly the kind of twisted logic used by those defending Russia...

William Anderson5 said:There’s that one dark meme where Vladimir Putin knocks on the door and says, "I'm here to protect you," only for everyone to ask, "Protect us from what?" and he replies, "From whatever I'll do to you if you don't let me in." That is exactly the kind of twisted logic used by those defending Russia...

Classic mafia move.

All that matters to an Austrian is that he closed the deal on the gas supply -

They’re just spineless, plain and simple. Honestly, what else can you expect from people who go out of their way to ban commemorations of events like Bleiburg—even their own high-ranking church officials—or those involved with the founders of JP Morgan Chase and the RBA cooperative?

Besides, I haven't seen a single company in that country capable of sending over a decent invoice or a standard balance sheet. To them, our accountants might as well be operating a freaking starship...

More mess involving the split between Haas and Uralkali:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...money/9889906/

Uralkali is demanding $13 million back for a contract they terminated BEFORE any sanctions even hit the fan.

Haas is hitting back—claiming they’re actually owed nearly $9 million due to lost profits. It sounds pretty wild, honestly—especially since things have been going great for them now that Mazepin isn't footing the bill and they've got a solid car this season.
Word is they haven't even settled the driver's salary (Mazepin's kid) for the time he was still with the team, even though he ended up getting sanctioned in the process.
😵

Everyone seems obsessed with looting money from Russia lately—these small-time thieves from the States jumped right on the bandwagon, trying to squeeze every cent out of it. If they've got all that extra cash, why not just toss it into a humanitarian fund for Ukraine?

"Quote:"

wiredseal7 said:More mess involving the split between Haas and Uralkali:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...money/9889906/

Uralkali is demanding $13 million back for a contract they terminated BEFORE any sanctions even hit the fan.

Haas is hitting back—claiming they’re actually owed nearly $9 million due to lost profits. It sounds pretty wild, honestly—especially since things have been going great for them now that Mazepin isn't footing the bill and they've got a solid car this season.
Word is they haven't even settled the driver's salary (Mazepin's kid) for the time he was still with the team, even though he ended up getting sanctioned in the process.
😵

Everyone seems obsessed with looting money from Russia lately—these small-time thieves from the States jumped right on the bandwagon, trying to squeeze every cent out of it. If they've got all that extra cash, why not just toss it into a humanitarian fund for Ukraine?

My support goes out to everyone involved. 👍

wiredseal7 said:More mess involving the split between Haas and Uralkali:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...money/9889906/

Uralkali is demanding $13 million back for a contract they terminated BEFORE any sanctions even hit the fan.

Haas is hitting back—claiming they’re actually owed nearly $9 million due to lost profits. It sounds pretty wild, honestly—especially since things have been going great for them now that Mazepin isn't footing the bill and they've got a solid car this season.
Word is they haven't even settled the driver's salary (Mazepin's kid) for the time he was still with the team, even though he ended up getting sanctioned in the process.
😵

Everyone seems obsessed with looting money from Russia lately—these small-time thieves from the States jumped right on the bandwagon, trying to squeeze every cent out of it. If they've got all that extra cash, why not just toss it into a humanitarian fund for Ukraine?

oh Resurrected, always ready to play bodyguard for those poor Russian turbo-capitalist billionaires. 😁

Jeff Bezos can only dream of having anyone defend him like that—aside from his lawyers, obviously.

Kate Lewis3 said:Right. And I guess Ukraine actually started the war by having the Russian Army cross their border and start a massive campaign of destruction and killing. Fascinating logic there.

You're getting warm.
Ukraine actually started the war by refusing to turn into Belarus, but since Putin is such a humanitarian who clearly didn't want a conflict, he just launched a special military operation to occupy Ukraine instead.
Everything is going exactly according to plan, despite a few minor hiccups here and there.
It’s worth noting that the world would be perfectly peaceful if it weren't for NATO and the USA.
That's pretty much the whole story. 🍿🎉

analogbear5 said:oh Resurrected, always ready to play bodyguard for those poor Russian turbo-capitalist billionaires. 😁

Jeff Bezos can only dream of having anyone defend him like that—aside from his lawyers, obviously.

We're talking about sanctions here—not you, wiredseal7.

Paul Anderson7 said:What does Russia actually have to do with Ukraine? I honestly don't get where they get the nerve to think they have any right to meddle in the decisions of another sovereign nation. It’s pretty ironic, really, considering Russia actually signed off on guaranteeing Ukraine's territorial sovereignty once they gave up those nuclear weapons left over from the USSR. Looking back, giving them up seems like such a massive blunder; if Ukraine had just kept those nukes, Russia would never have even dreamed of attacking.

The reason countries join NATO is pretty simple: they're terrified of Russia. History has shown time and again that you can't take their word for anything, and they'll grab every single opportunity to chase after their imperialist fantasies. Look at Finland and Sweden—they're moving toward joining NATO not because anyone is forcing their hand, but because they feel genuinely threatened by Russia.

If you want someone to blame, it’s Russia and this delusional idea that they’re a superpower entitled to do whatever they want without consequences. People have let them slide far too many times, but it looks like the patience has finally run out. Now, Russia is being forced back into its place, sitting alongside the other pariah states.

None of the NATO members have ever even entertained the thought of invading Russia or seizing its land. Meanwhile, on the flip side, the Russians have been trying nothing but to expand their reach.
Russia is the sole reason this war is happening; I’d say it’s exclusively Putin, though he’s really just a product of the society in Russia, so you could probably blame the whole country. Ukrainians are their own distinct nation, despite Putin himself claiming otherwise. If you can't see the problem with that kind of rhetoric, then you're just another biased troll.

As for the Americans? They basically just exploited Putin's own stupidity and naivety, letting him believe this was going to be an easy win. The US didn't pick up weapons to start a war, or engage in killing, rapes, or genocide. That was all the Russians. No one else. They were the ones who crossed the border, they dropped the bombs, they kill civilians, they rape, they drop cluster bombs on train stations... it's all the Russians.

NATO is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one.
NATO does not conquer foreign lands.

northernangler8 said:This is the kind of naivety everyone falls for. There is no such thing as a truly sovereign state. Our country isn't even truly sovereign. That only exists on paper. Everyone is ruled by someone bigger. That's why what we're seeing in Ukraine is actually a war between two major powers fighting over who gets to dominate and control Ukraine. Do you really think our leadership makes independent decisions? Not a chance. They just do whatever they're told from above; they don't have the backbone to think for themselves. No small country actually calls its own shots.

If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes, they never would have been freed from the Russians. That was the whole point of the deal. Russia allowed Ukraine to enjoy Western comforts in exchange for the nukes. And look what happened once Russia let the West into their politics. The West poked its nose into their business just to stir up a conflict with Russia, and it's the Ukrainians who are paying the price.

Ukraine had no reason to fear Russia, unless they turned their backs on them—which is exactly what the pro-American politicians in power did. Ukraine could have maintained the freedom it had until now if politicians with bad intentions hadn't engineered this war. The U.S. is bothered by Russia, and this is just their attempt to get rid of them. I guess Putin was being patient while watching the U.S. provoke this situation in Ukraine. This war could have started much earlier, but Putin didn't want it. Now, though, he felt like he had no choice because the noose was tightening too much.

NATO attacks subtly and murky, much like a virus. But it’s always there, quietly provoking war. Not directly, but through indirect actions.

Has Ukraine ever truly been free from Russia?
Western meddlers versus Russian rats?
The Russians attacked Ukraine; it wasn't the other way around.

northernangler8 said:This is the kind of naivety everyone falls for. There is no such thing as a truly sovereign state. Our country isn't even truly sovereign. That only exists on paper. Everyone is ruled by someone bigger. That's why what we're seeing in Ukraine is actually a war between two major powers fighting over who gets to dominate and control Ukraine. Do you really think our leadership makes independent decisions? Not a chance. They just do whatever they're told from above; they don't have the backbone to think for themselves. No small country actually calls its own shots.

If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes, they never would have been freed from the Russians. That was the whole point of the deal. Russia allowed Ukraine to enjoy Western comforts in exchange for the nukes. And look what happened once Russia let the West into their politics. The West poked its nose into their business just to stir up a conflict with Russia, and it's the Ukrainians who are paying the price.

Ukraine had no reason to fear Russia, unless they turned their backs on them—which is exactly what the pro-American politicians in power did. Ukraine could have maintained the freedom it had until now if politicians with bad intentions hadn't engineered this war. The U.S. is bothered by Russia, and this is just their attempt to get rid of them. I guess Putin was being patient while watching the U.S. provoke this situation in Ukraine. This war could have started much earlier, but Putin didn't want it. Now, though, he felt like he had no choice because the noose was tightening too much.

NATO attacks subtly and murky, much like a virus. But it’s always there, quietly provoking war. Not directly, but through indirect actions.

🤣
There was plenty of reason—specifically, the fact that Putin stated he doesn't recognize them as a people, doesn't recognize their borders, and simply wants to dictate their fate.

Paul Anderson7 said:Sure, Ukraine could have just assumed Russia would be happy letting them become a Belarus. You know, a poor little buffer zone sitting right between Russia and the aggressive West. But the reality is that nobody actually wants anything to do with the Russians. I wouldn't be surprised if Belarus turns its back on Russia in the near future, too. After all, the Russians don't really offer much besides empty promises that they won't attack you as long as you behave. Nobody wants to live like that, and that kind of policy is eventually going to push them away from everything the free world stands for.

The truth is, no small nation is ever truly independent. Take a country like Mexico, for instance. They’re currently drifting toward the West, even though there’s plenty of internal resistance. How does the West handle it? They pour in capital and provide support. Eventually, that domestic pushback will fade, and Mexico will just become part of the Western fold. That’s how the West operates; that’s how it expands.
And what about Russia? They take a "candidate" like that and systematically block and weaken them, making sure they stay dependent and easy to blackmail.

What’s the difference? If you’re aligned with the West and you start breaking the rules, they send protest notes and dial back the aid until you realize you can't function without it. We're seeing a version of this play out with Canada right now, and it looks like it’ll be a long process.
But what do the Russians do when you stop following their script? They basically declare that your nation shouldn't exist in the first place, roll in with tanks, and engage in genocide, rape, and the total destruction of cities.

So, let's look at Canada and Ukraine side by side. Canada, as a member of the West where there's currently a pro-Russian sentiment—though that's mostly just due to Orbán’s policies centered on cheap Russian oil and gas—pretty much does whatever it wants.
The absolute worst thing that can happen to them is losing their funding from the EU or getting stripped of certain decision-making powers. Honestly, the worst thing they could do is actually align themselves with Russia, but I suspect they realize just how insane that would be.
Ukraine made the move to break away from Russia and lean toward the West. What did Russia do in response? Well, I don't think I need to explain that; we've all seen it.

Do you see the distinction? Nobody wants to deal with the Russians. Absolutely nobody. To most, they represent backwardness, filth, and ruthlessness—they are essentially the embodiment of corruption and human rights abuses. Russia is bottom of the barrel.

👍

William Anderson5 said:There’s that one dark meme where Vladimir Putin knocks on the door and says, "I'm here to protect you," only for everyone to ask, "Protect us from what?" and he replies, "From whatever I'll do to you if you don't let me in." That is exactly the kind of twisted logic used by those defending Russia...

A racket.

Rachel Turner2 said:Classic mafia move.

Exactly...

rowdytiger13 said:You're getting warm.
Ukraine actually started the war by refusing to turn into Belarus, but since Putin is such a humanitarian who clearly didn't want a conflict, he just launched a special military operation to occupy Ukraine instead.
Everything is going exactly according to plan, despite a few minor hiccups here and there.
It’s worth noting that the world would be perfectly peaceful if it weren't for NATO and the USA.
That's pretty much the whole story. 🍿🎉

🤣
Sometimes I truly wonder what kind of dealer certain people are working with.😁

wiredseal7 said:We're talking about sanctions here—not you, wiredseal7.

Anyway, let’s just pivot to a different topic—maybe you can explain how Russia plans to react to the threat from Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Using the same playbook they used in Ukraine?

Rachel Richardson said:NATO is a defensive alliance, not an offensive one.
NATO does not conquer foreign lands.

Has Ukraine ever truly been free from Russia?
Western meddlers versus Russian rats?
The Russians attacked Ukraine; it wasn't the other way around.

🤣
There was plenty of reason—specifically, the fact that Putin stated he doesn't recognize them as a people, doesn't recognize their borders, and simply wants to dictate their fate.

👍

A racket.

Exactly...

🤣
Sometimes I truly wonder what kind of dealer certain people are working with.😁

NATO presents itself as a defensive alliance, yet here we are, right in the middle of a war because of them. I guess it would probably help some people if they weren't quite so naive and actually used their own heads for once.

What was Ukraine missing all this time? They lived the Western lifestyle for as long as they wanted. They had their freedom. In fact, one Ukrainian even mentioned how both Russians and certain Ukrainians have been oppressing people within Ukraine since 2014, and how he misses the days when the Russian language could be spoken freely there. American policy pretty much tore all of that apart.
So, please don't lump what the Ukrainians want together with what politicians want—those are two completely different things.

Send me that statement from Putin—not a transcript, I want to see the actual video.

northernangler8 said:NATO presents itself as a defensive alliance, yet here we are, right in the middle of a war because of them. I guess it would probably help some people if they weren't quite so naive and actually used their own heads for once.

What was Ukraine missing all this time? They lived the Western lifestyle for as long as they wanted. They had their freedom. In fact, one Ukrainian even mentioned how both Russians and certain Ukrainians have been oppressing people within Ukraine since 2014, and how he misses the days when the Russian language could be spoken freely there. American policy pretty much tore all of that apart.
So, please don't lump what the Ukrainians want together with what politicians want—those are two completely different things.

Send me that statement from Putin—not a transcript, I want to see the actual video.

Man, you TikTok generation folks...

northernangler8 said:NATO presents itself as a defensive alliance, yet here we are, right in the middle of a war because of them. I guess it would probably help some people if they weren't quite so naive and actually used their own heads for once.

What was Ukraine missing all this time? They lived the Western lifestyle for as long as they wanted. They had their freedom. In fact, one Ukrainian even mentioned how both Russians and certain Ukrainians have been oppressing people within Ukraine since 2014, and how he misses the days when the Russian language could be spoken freely there. American policy pretty much tore all of that apart.
So, please don't lump what the Ukrainians want together with what politicians want—those are two completely different things.

Send me that statement from Putin—not a transcript, I want to see the actual video.

https://time.com/6150046/ukraine-sta...history-putin/



And it isn't just his rhetoric;
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/0...inian-history/

Ukraine has been under attack by Russia since 2014.
Russian soldiers are on their soil, and Russian missiles are flying over their heads.
Does that mean nothing to you?

So, according to this logic, the "evil" Americans forced poor old Putko into an invasion? 😁

northernangler8 said:Oh, absolutely. It seems like anyone who doesn't parrot the officially sanctioned narrative is immediately branded a Russian shill or a spy. I guess we saw how miracle-working media propaganda worked during COVID—if you spread a single lie wide enough across the globe, you can eventually force people to believe only one thing. Most people struggle to think critically on their own, and after being bombarded with lies for long enough, they just stop having an opinion and settle for whatever is shoved down their throats. Back during the pandemic, if you didn't echo exactly what the politicians were saying, you were attacked from every possible angle. They’re doing the exact same thing now. If you don't fall in line, they try to bury you with labels and insults.

The US starts wars everywhere and dismantles any nation that refuses to bow down, all while labeling their leaders as dictators (which is a classic move for Americans). Then, of course, they always show up acting like the heroic saviors. It's the same old story.

It’s not like Putin just woke up one day and decided to invade to conquer Europe with this tiny little squad of an army. Honestly, I think US domestic politics regarding Ukraine essentially demanded a war. The US has nothing to lose here; they never have to fight a war on their own soil, and we can all see exactly who is profiting from this conflict: America.

Personally, I am strictly against war, but the actions being taken by Europe and Plenković are the complete opposite of that. Zelenskyy hasn't solved anything through negotiations. In fact, it seems like negotiations don't even suit them. I mean, imagine a newly minted Ukrainian politician finding it more convenient to let his people die rather than find a compromise to finally end the fighting.

Sure, the US has fought wars and done plenty of shady stuff, but please—give me one specific territory they actually annexed.

Meanwhile, the Russians have attacked all their neighbors and snatched territory from everyone.

Nathan Thomas12 Asks:
Americans have certainly led wars and made their fair share of mistakes—no one is denying that—but I’m looking for some actual data here. Specifically, I want to know: which territories have they actually annexed?

Russia attacked all its neighbors—and ended up seizing territory from every single one of them.

Even some countries that don't share a border—take Moldova, for instance...

If you set aside the three Baltic states that were illegally occupied by the USSR during WWII—Russia maintained military bases in nearly every single former Soviet republic.

In Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan—it's perfectly legal.
Local conflicts are currently simmering in Tajikistan, Armenia, and Azerbaijan.
We are seeing active territorial occupations taking place in Georgia and Moldova.
In Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, there was no need—though in Uzbekistan, it remained in place until 2012.

If you want to understand how global power actually functions—beyond the rhetoric and the news cycles—you have to look at the physical footprint of the military. It isn't just about abstract influence; it’s about geography and logistics. Take a look at this list of overseas bases. It serves as a map of where the United States chooses to project its strength. You can think of it like a massive, interconnected network of hubs—much like how a major tech giant might distribute its server farms across the globe to ensure zero latency and total coverage. These aren't just isolated outposts; they are strategic nodes designed to maintain stability and respond to crises in real-time. It’s a massive undertaking—complex, expensive, and deeply integrated into our national security strategy. Whether it's securing shipping lanes or providing a rapid response capability in distant regions, these locations represent the literal foundation of American presence around the world. It's more than just a collection of coordinates; it's the infrastructure of global reach.

The only thing standing between him and reconstituting the USSR was Ukraine.

An aggressive war—driven by nothing more than a hunger for land that was already more than enough to go around.

The UK just froze the accounts and assets of two individuals tied to Roman Abramovich.
We're talking about $10 billion here.

UK freezes assets of two Abramovich associates worth $10 billion
18:16

Breaking news...

The French are estimating this at around $13 billion...

Tenenbaum et Davidovitch, who hold Canadian and Russian citizenship respectively, both have their assets frozen, valued at roughly $13 billion...
18:36