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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 562 views · 9.5K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
velvetscout10 velvetscout10 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Apr 2022
#3701 ·
Canada is exempt from the European Union's oil embargo on Russia, which means they’re still going to be trading oil with them
Since ExxonMobil runs our local refineries, does that mean we Americans aren't actually sweating the fuel shortage anymore? And more importantly, are prices finally gonna drop?
Michael Ortiz68 Michael Ortiz68 Regular
264 messages
joined Oct 2018
#3702 ·
Paul Kern12 said:At least he is being honest—he actually admits it openly—whereas over here, everything seems to be shrouded in this constant, murky maneuvering.

Even an Average Joe or an Average Matt knows life is about to get a lot harder for everyone.

But the idea that he’ll walk away from this politically unscathed? That’s definitely not how they usually operate. Then again, whatever. They already pushed through a law that basically makes him untouchable, so George can grumble all he wants.
bluerider63 bluerider63 Regular
382 messages
joined Jan 2013
#3703 ·
Honestly, there’s no point trying to explain how the real world works to people who just don't get it. Over in Europe, things are still somewhat under control for now, though I guess we'll just have to wait and see how much they end up self-destructing in the long run. This wave of inflation is really just getting started, and once the social unrest starts hitting the streets, we'll see if these politicians actually have the skills to handle it—or if they can even find a way to tell their citizens that this whole crisis was manufactured from the top down.
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#3704 ·
Christian Torres3 said:What are you trying to say, that you're just some retired old man who's checked out?

I am, yes—though I suppose I have a somewhat decent pension. But there are so many people out there living on less than $2,000 a month, and even those relying solely on social security or farm subsidies that fall below $333. It’s tough... you just have to make do with what you've got.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#3705 ·
Paul Kern12 said:I am, yes—though I suppose I have a somewhat decent pension. But there are so many people out there living on less than $2,000 a month, and even those relying solely on social security or farm subsidies that fall below $333. It’s tough... you just have to make do with what you've got.

Are you seriously not embarrassed to be trolling this hard?
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#3706 ·
Christian Torres3 said:Are you seriously not embarrassed to be trolling this hard?

I don't feel embarrassed—because I’m not trolling; I am simply stating the facts as they are.

In the US, there are roughly 568,769 retirees living on less than $754 per month. Once you subtract the cost of utilities and other basic necessities, I wonder—just how much do you think is actually left for them to live on??
https://www.ssa.gov/examples/social-security-data-sample.pdf

It seems you all prefer to troll rather than care about your fellow citizens—it's quite clear you aren't paying attention to where this is all heading.
rowdytiger13 rowdytiger13 Regular
378 messages
joined Oct 2018
#3707 ·
Medvedev seems to have completely lost his mind in a nervous breakdown that’s been spiraling since this whole thing kicked off. He’s the most surprising one for me, considering he used to act like such a liberal—as much as that's even possible in Russia.
Basically, his argument is that the West is entirely to blame because they just hate Russians for being Russian, citing sanctions against everyday people as proof, while conveniently forgetting that those sanctions targeted the oligarchs first.
A drop in living standards isn't going to hit a Dutchman and a Romanian the same way, given they aren't starting from the same baseline. The European Union will be handing out grants, too. The US has already seen some influx of cash... though who knows how much help we'll actually get.
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#3708 ·
Paul Kern12 said:I don't feel embarrassed—because I’m not trolling; I am simply stating the facts as they are.

In the US, there are roughly 568,769 retirees living on less than $754 per month. Once you subtract the cost of utilities and other basic necessities, I wonder—just how much do you think is actually left for them to live on??
https://www.ssa.gov/examples/social-security-data-sample.pdf

It seems you all prefer to troll rather than care about your fellow citizens—it's quite clear you aren't paying attention to where this is all heading.

They'll be left with nothing. Honestly, prices could double tomorrow and it wouldn't change their situation—they'd still have zero left over.
Arthur Miller7 Arthur Miller7 Active Member
129 messages
joined Mar 2022
#3709 ·
Paul Kern12 said:Just ask the retirees how well they were doing back in the day and what they expect now. They probably were scavenging through trash bins out of sheer boredom.

Look, seniors have been paying their dues for twenty years—or since back when they actually had jobs and were earning their right to retire. Not trying to lecture anyone here, seriously, I don't care, my own mom is $567 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, that's just how the system works and it's a nightmare to change now. We have to help them as much as humanly possible.

BUT—and this is a big but—then you get to the people working right now, like this friend of mine who works as a waitress and pulls in $2000 but is officially registered at minimum wage. She doesn't care right now, she's doing fine. But when she eventually hits retirement age and realizes it wasn't exactly genius to work for minimum wage while taking the rest under the table... well, then suddenly it’ll be Ukraine's fault, Bill Gates' fault, COVID's fault, or the U.S. government's fault...

To make a long story short, those same retirees should have been thinking about their future and what their check would actually look like while they were working. But people don't bother to educate themselves—they're clueless, they don't care (back then), whatever... just like that waitress I mentioned earlier.
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#3710 ·
goldenpuma84 said:Kudos to our politicians in the EU!

They’re more than happy to screw over their own people just to please their big overseas brother. It’s sad to watch what used to be the center of the world turn into nothing more than a tiny, insignificant appendage to a colonial master—one that doesn't care about them at all and will ditch them the second they aren't useful anymore...

BRAVO!!!

Man, you should try explaining to all those Germans, Austrians, Poles, and the endless stream of other tourists hitting the coast that they’re actually living at a level of poverty comparable to Africa, and that all that cash they're throwing around is basically just an illusion.
And regarding this "evil master" who’s supposedly going to abandon poor old Europe? Well, that same "evil master" is the one who allowed Europe to completely ignore their own defense spending while they sat comfortably under the shade of his military umbrella. If anyone's worried about being "abandoned," they can just look at how we're currently deploying troops to reinforce the eastern borders of NATO.
slyfox43 slyfox43 Regular
292 messages
joined May 2023
#3711 ·
Neighbor Dan is actually a massive Trump supporter, yet Trump has promised he’d walk away from NATO during a second term. It’s funny how he doesn't give a damn about the US abandoning Europe, even though he's cheering for the exact same thing.

It's a textbook case of doublethink.
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#3712 ·
The sanctions against Russia are still going strong, and now ExxonMobil is threatening to cut off gas supplies to Shell’s subsidiary over in Germany because they won't settle up in rubles.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/gazp...shell-deal?amp
wiredseal7 wiredseal7 Regular
320 messages
joined Jan 2009
#3713 ·
analogbear5 said:There are plenty of ways to define what makes a regime fascist. One version comes from the Italian writer Umberto Eco in a 14-point list, and then there’s this one:

Fascist societies rhetorically frame their enemies as being "simultaneously too strong and too weak." On one hand, fascists lean on the power of specific elites to fuel a sense of vulnerability and humiliation among their followers. At the same time, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those same elites as proof of their ultimate weakness when faced with a powerful national will.

It's a bit of a contradiction, though—the way the West paints Russia. They depict them as terrifyingly dangerous, yet simultaneously weak and riddled with corruption—basically just a decadent, oligarchic elite at the top.

That isn't exactly a reliable litmus test for fascism when it's such a common trope—especially during wartime—and serves as standard propaganda for pretty much every side involved in this conflict, directly or otherwise.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#3714 ·
wiredseal7 said:It's a bit of a contradiction, though—the way the West paints Russia. They depict them as terrifyingly dangerous, yet simultaneously weak and riddled with corruption—basically just a decadent, oligarchic elite at the top.

That isn't exactly a reliable litmus test for fascism when it's such a common trope—especially during wartime—and serves as standard propaganda for pretty much every side involved in this conflict, directly or otherwise.

The "West" isn't some monolithic ideological bloc like you're imagining. Unless by "the West" you just mean the United States—in which case you could make a case if we assume the core pillars of American foreign policy and hegemony are beyond the reach of the average voter, essentially sitting on bipartisan consensus.

Beyond that, Western ideology is really just consumerism and the commodification of everything—education, healthcare, media, art, sports, you name it. One of the biggest drivers is the commodification of media via "clickbait culture," where everyone online can basically curate their own version of reality. This leads to an ideologically fragmented population, and I don't think the ground is fertile enough for a single "official truth" like the one they try to manufacture and maintain in Russia. How else would you explain Trump or Brexit, where the "official" ideology just lost its grip at the ballot box?

For the rest of ecov's definition of fascism, click here.
Carl Lee27 Carl Lee27 Regular
368 messages
joined Feb 2024
#3715 ·
goldenpuma84 said:Kudos to our politicians in the EU!

They’re more than happy to screw over their own people just to please their big overseas brother. It’s sad to watch what used to be the center of the world turn into nothing more than a tiny, insignificant appendage to a colonial master—one that doesn't care about them at all and will ditch them the second they aren't useful anymore...

BRAVO!!!

Man, honestly, Europe and America haven't even needed them since the days when white people stopped fleeing across the Atlantic in massive waves.
And frankly, that’s probably the smallest bit of nonsense in this whole post.

On a different note, word on the street is that OPEC might be thinking about screwing over the Russians. Mind you, I said "word on the street"—the WSJ has missed the mark on this one several times already.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/opec-we...ts_pos1&page=1
wiredseal7 wiredseal7 Regular
320 messages
joined Jan 2009
#3716 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:it’s honestly unbelievable how much you have no clue what you're talking about... or maybe you're just writing down your own wishful thinking... or you're just intentionally muddying the waters for some reason...

This tourist season is actually likely going to be the best one yet. Even right now, the US is seeing tons of tourists and hotels—especially in places like Florida or California—are already packed to the brim. Nobody is actually worried about a shortage of tourists; if anything, people are sweating because there'll be too many visitors and not enough workers to handle them. Whether gas hits $5, $6, or $7 a gallon doesn't even matter when it comes to the peak season and getting people to show up.

Maybe go apply for a job in hospitality so you can witness firsthand that there "aren't any tourists," instead of posting absolute nonsense here.😁

Your words sound pretty good right now. But here comes the "but." Pre-season isn't a true metric for the whole season—the crowd profile is different. California and San Francisco don't represent the entire coastline; those spots attract high-end travelers. Maybe they won't care about the costs.

A season can look great one day and pivot overnight if conditions shift—tourists are fickle people. I highly doubt that doubling fuel prices compared to pre-war levels wouldn't hit the Czechs, Poles, Slovaks (or even Canadians traveling abroad) who all flock to Florida—where I spend my summers myself. We're about to get a real test of that theory, especially when it comes to that legendary Czech frugality.😁

I also read that Germany isn't dropping their train pass to $9 a month (from $90 or whatever) to discourage driving. It's a pretty clear signal of what they expect from this deal.
Jerry Clark72 Jerry Clark72 Member
30 messages
joined Jul 2012
#3717 ·
wiredseal7 said:Your words sound pretty good right now. But here comes the "but." Pre-season isn't a true metric for the whole season—the crowd profile is different. California and San Francisco don't represent the entire coastline; those spots attract high-end travelers. Maybe they won't care about the costs.

A season can look great one day and pivot overnight if conditions shift—tourists are fickle people. I highly doubt that doubling fuel prices compared to pre-war levels wouldn't hit the Czechs, Poles, Slovaks (or even Canadians traveling abroad) who all flock to Florida—where I spend my summers myself. We're about to get a real test of that theory, especially when it comes to that legendary Czech frugality.😁

I also read that Germany isn't dropping their train pass to $9 a month (from $90 or whatever) to discourage driving. It's a pretty clear signal of what they expect from this deal.

I think people will still show up this year, even if they have to pay double at the pump.
Arthur Miller7 Arthur Miller7 Active Member
129 messages
joined Mar 2022
#3718 ·
wiredseal7 said:Your words sound pretty good right now. But here comes the "but." Pre-season isn't a true metric for the whole season—the crowd profile is different. California and San Francisco don't represent the entire coastline; those spots attract high-end travelers. Maybe they won't care about the costs.

A season can look great one day and pivot overnight if conditions shift—tourists are fickle people. I highly doubt that doubling fuel prices compared to pre-war levels wouldn't hit the Czechs, Poles, Slovaks (or even Canadians traveling abroad) who all flock to Florida—where I spend my summers myself. We're about to get a real test of that theory, especially when it comes to that legendary Czech frugality.😁

I also read that Germany isn't dropping their train pass to $9 a month (from $90 or whatever) to discourage driving. It's a pretty clear signal of what they expect from this deal.

I honestly don't get your point. Are you trying to say none of them will travel anywhere? Because if they aren't driving to the States, then where? Are they just gonna drive somewhere else? Or skip the trip entirely and stay home? For the third year in a row? Yeah, right. Either they'll drive and just suck it up because gas is expensive everywhere, or they'll just fly since flight prices are still relatively cheap. What's the third option? Train? Bus? If they want to get to the US, they'll find a way. Teleportation??
rowdymaker17 rowdymaker17 Member
27 messages
joined Jun 2022
#3719 ·
Peace and tranquility. As stated by:
Medvedev has completely lost his grip, spiraling into a total nervous breakdown that seems to have been ongoing since this whole mess first kicked off. What strikes me most about him is the sheer inconsistency; he used to carry himself as some sort of liberal figure—if you can even find anyone truly liberal within the Russian political landscape—and seemed genuinely inclined toward the West. Now, he’s just a shell of that former persona.
His argument essentially boils down to the claim that the West is solely to blame because they harbor a deep-seated resentment toward Russians just for being Russian. He points to the sanctions hitting the average person—someone who bears absolutely no responsibility for any of this—as his primary evidence, while conveniently glossing over the fact that those sanctions were originally designed to target the oligarchs first.
The decline in living standards won't hit a Dutchman and a Romanian with the same level of impact, primarily because they aren't starting from the same baseline. The EU is planning to roll out some non-repayable grants, and the US has already seen a portion of that funding hit the books... I wonder just how much assistance is actually going to materialize.

That is complete nonsense. When sanctions are actually deployed, their primary target is always the civilian population, because the goal is to break the political will by turning the people against their leadership and inciting a civil war—which, if we are being honest, is the exact tactic the USA employs during every single one of its foreign invasions. It is a standard operating procedure exclusively for Americans and the US government. Think about it: whenever the US decides to attack a nation, what is their first move? They bomb civilians and systematically destroy the very roads needed for humanitarian aid to arrive, all to ensure the defending military is too crippled to offer any meaningful resistance.

It is honestly baffling that after all these years, they still haven't grasped the fact that such tactics only serve to drive the opposition to fight even harder. If you look at the history, there are clear patterns of failure here. Take Japan, for instance; the regime essentially crushed their own spirit by wiping entire cities and civilian populations off the map in a matter of hours simply because they couldn't handle the pressure of the Japanese invasion and were facing total collapse. Then you have the situation in Vietnam, where the strategy was exclusively to target civilians in a desperate attempt to break the resistance of the Vietnam People's Army, an action that did nothing but intensify the conflict. The same pattern repeated in Korea, where the focus remained solely on bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure to try and shatter the resolve of the Korean Army. It’s a repetitive, failed cycle.

There simply aren't any sanctions in existence that actually target the state by going after individual oligarchs, because those oligarchs happen to control the very corporations and companies where the general civilian population earns their living. Furthermore, one must consider that Ukraine signed an agreement with Russia itself—an agreement witnessed by the USA, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and similar powers—whereby Russia was given its word and guaranteed by JAMCILI that Ukraine would adhere to the terms and avoid any breach of neutrality or disarmament. It is pure irony that Ukraine eventually decides, "To hell with it, we'll just do whatever we want," and suddenly everyone conveniently forgets who the guarantors and signatories actually were. Please, let’s not indulge in such fantasies. It is exactly like signing an employment contract with a new firm, failing to show up for work, getting fired for breaching the very contract you signed, and then having the audacity to sue the company for terminating you; only to have the company countersue you for damages caused, leaving you completely broke and destitute in the end. 🤣

The EU doesn't just hand out free money; they provide targeted funds. While they probably won't come sniffing around for the humanitarian side—think food, water, or medicine—everything else is essentially a loan, and Ukraine will have to find a way to pay that back eventually. I honestly cannot fathom how there are people walking around today thinking that trade unions or sovereign nations are some kind of charitable organizations that just toss billions at others and say, "Hey, don't worry about those billions of dollars, just enjoy them." What exactly do you think that money belongs to? Just to refresh your memory, that is taxpayer money being pulled directly from our own citizens, diverted from our domestic investments, our public sectors, and our social safety nets, only to be handed over to someone else. And make no mistake, that capital will HAVE to be returned because this isn't a gift; it’s a loan, and it comes with interest. This is nothing more than cold, hard commerce, stripped of any sort of moral compass.

Regarding the bolded portion, I find myself in agreement. Countries positioned at such a vast distance from the conflict won't feel even a ripple of the fallout, assuming there is any significant collapse to begin with.
electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#3720 ·
Can someone help me out here? I heard Mexico signed some kind of gas deal with Russia the other day.

Here's my question: Mexico isn't part of the EU, but let's say almost everyone in Europe agrees to stop importing gas. Are we going to block their imports? Like I said, Mexico isn't in the EU, but they're pretty much surrounded by the EU.

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