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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 563 views · 9.5K replies

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electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#3721 ·
rowdymaker17 said:
Peace and tranquility. As stated by:
Medvedev has completely lost his grip, spiraling into a total nervous breakdown that seems to have been ongoing since this whole mess first kicked off. What strikes me most about him is the sheer inconsistency; he used to carry himself as some sort of liberal figure—if you can even find anyone truly liberal within the Russian political landscape—and seemed genuinely inclined toward the West. Now, he’s just a shell of that former persona.
His argument essentially boils down to the claim that the West is solely to blame because they harbor a deep-seated resentment toward Russians just for being Russian. He points to the sanctions hitting the average person—someone who bears absolutely no responsibility for any of this—as his primary evidence, while conveniently glossing over the fact that those sanctions were originally designed to target the oligarchs first.
The decline in living standards won't hit a Dutchman and a Romanian with the same level of impact, primarily because they aren't starting from the same baseline. The EU is planning to roll out some non-repayable grants, and the US has already seen a portion of that funding hit the books... I wonder just how much assistance is actually going to materialize.

That is complete nonsense. When sanctions are actually deployed, their primary target is always the civilian population, because the goal is to break the political will by turning the people against their leadership and inciting a civil war—which, if we are being honest, is the exact tactic the USA employs during every single one of its foreign invasions. It is a standard operating procedure exclusively for Americans and the US government. Think about it: whenever the US decides to attack a nation, what is their first move? They bomb civilians and systematically destroy the very roads needed for humanitarian aid to arrive, all to ensure the defending military is too crippled to offer any meaningful resistance.

It is honestly baffling that after all these years, they still haven't grasped the fact that such tactics only serve to drive the opposition to fight even harder. If you look at the history, there are clear patterns of failure here. Take Japan, for instance; the regime essentially crushed their own spirit by wiping entire cities and civilian populations off the map in a matter of hours simply because they couldn't handle the pressure of the Japanese invasion and were facing total collapse. Then you have the situation in Vietnam, where the strategy was exclusively to target civilians in a desperate attempt to break the resistance of the Vietnam People's Army, an action that did nothing but intensify the conflict. The same pattern repeated in Korea, where the focus remained solely on bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure to try and shatter the resolve of the Korean Army. It’s a repetitive, failed cycle.

There simply aren't any sanctions in existence that actually target the state by going after individual oligarchs, because those oligarchs happen to control the very corporations and companies where the general civilian population earns their living. Furthermore, one must consider that Ukraine signed an agreement with Russia itself—an agreement witnessed by the USA, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and similar powers—whereby Russia was given its word and guaranteed by JAMCILI that Ukraine would adhere to the terms and avoid any breach of neutrality or disarmament. It is pure irony that Ukraine eventually decides, "To hell with it, we'll just do whatever we want," and suddenly everyone conveniently forgets who the guarantors and signatories actually were. Please, let’s not indulge in such fantasies. It is exactly like signing an employment contract with a new firm, failing to show up for work, getting fired for breaching the very contract you signed, and then having the audacity to sue the company for terminating you; only to have the company countersue you for damages caused, leaving you completely broke and destitute in the end. 🤣

The EU doesn't just hand out free money; they provide targeted funds. While they probably won't come sniffing around for the humanitarian side—think food, water, or medicine—everything else is essentially a loan, and Ukraine will have to find a way to pay that back eventually. I honestly cannot fathom how there are people walking around today thinking that trade unions or sovereign nations are some kind of charitable organizations that just toss billions at others and say, "Hey, don't worry about those billions of dollars, just enjoy them." What exactly do you think that money belongs to? Just to refresh your memory, that is taxpayer money being pulled directly from our own citizens, diverted from our domestic investments, our public sectors, and our social safety nets, only to be handed over to someone else. And make no mistake, that capital will HAVE to be returned because this isn't a gift; it’s a loan, and it comes with interest. This is nothing more than cold, hard commerce, stripped of any sort of moral compass.

Regarding the bolded portion, I find myself in agreement. Countries positioned at such a vast distance from the conflict won't feel even a ripple of the fallout, assuming there is any significant collapse to begin with.

Ukraine was already under Russia's thumb anyway. I mean, didn't the Russians try to pull the strings through Januković?
When that didn't work, they went for the heavy-handed approach—taking Crimea in 2014.

From what I hear, the push for NATO happened after that, because once Crimea was lost, nobody could trust their neighbor anymore.
And regarding the EU, it became pretty clear they had to choose between Russia or the EU. From what I can see, Ukraine was always leaning toward the EU rather than Russia. Honestly, let's see Russia try that with India... that would be something. India is a much tougher opponent than Ukraine.
crimsoncyclist71 crimsoncyclist71 Active Member
175 messages
joined Aug 2016
#3722 ·
rowdymaker17 said:
Peace and tranquility. As stated by:
Medvedev has completely lost his grip, spiraling into a total nervous breakdown that seems to have been ongoing since this whole mess first kicked off. What strikes me most about him is the sheer inconsistency; he used to carry himself as some sort of liberal figure—if you can even find anyone truly liberal within the Russian political landscape—and seemed genuinely inclined toward the West. Now, he’s just a shell of that former persona.
His argument essentially boils down to the claim that the West is solely to blame because they harbor a deep-seated resentment toward Russians just for being Russian. He points to the sanctions hitting the average person—someone who bears absolutely no responsibility for any of this—as his primary evidence, while conveniently glossing over the fact that those sanctions were originally designed to target the oligarchs first.
The decline in living standards won't hit a Dutchman and a Romanian with the same level of impact, primarily because they aren't starting from the same baseline. The EU is planning to roll out some non-repayable grants, and the US has already seen a portion of that funding hit the books... I wonder just how much assistance is actually going to materialize.

That is complete nonsense. When sanctions are actually deployed, their primary target is always the civilian population, because the goal is to break the political will by turning the people against their leadership and inciting a civil war—which, if we are being honest, is the exact tactic the USA employs during every single one of its foreign invasions. It is a standard operating procedure exclusively for Americans and the US government. Think about it: whenever the US decides to attack a nation, what is their first move? They bomb civilians and systematically destroy the very roads needed for humanitarian aid to arrive, all to ensure the defending military is too crippled to offer any meaningful resistance.

It is honestly baffling that after all these years, they still haven't grasped the fact that such tactics only serve to drive the opposition to fight even harder. If you look at the history, there are clear patterns of failure here. Take Japan, for instance; the regime essentially crushed their own spirit by wiping entire cities and civilian populations off the map in a matter of hours simply because they couldn't handle the pressure of the Japanese invasion and were facing total collapse. Then you have the situation in Vietnam, where the strategy was exclusively to target civilians in a desperate attempt to break the resistance of the Vietnam People's Army, an action that did nothing but intensify the conflict. The same pattern repeated in Korea, where the focus remained solely on bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure to try and shatter the resolve of the Korean Army. It’s a repetitive, failed cycle.

There simply aren't any sanctions in existence that actually target the state by going after individual oligarchs, because those oligarchs happen to control the very corporations and companies where the general civilian population earns their living. Furthermore, one must consider that Ukraine signed an agreement with Russia itself—an agreement witnessed by the USA, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and similar powers—whereby Russia was given its word and guaranteed by JAMCILI that Ukraine would adhere to the terms and avoid any breach of neutrality or disarmament. It is pure irony that Ukraine eventually decides, "To hell with it, we'll just do whatever we want," and suddenly everyone conveniently forgets who the guarantors and signatories actually were. Please, let’s not indulge in such fantasies. It is exactly like signing an employment contract with a new firm, failing to show up for work, getting fired for breaching the very contract you signed, and then having the audacity to sue the company for terminating you; only to have the company countersue you for damages caused, leaving you completely broke and destitute in the end. 🤣

The EU doesn't just hand out free money; they provide targeted funds. While they probably won't come sniffing around for the humanitarian side—think food, water, or medicine—everything else is essentially a loan, and Ukraine will have to find a way to pay that back eventually. I honestly cannot fathom how there are people walking around today thinking that trade unions or sovereign nations are some kind of charitable organizations that just toss billions at others and say, "Hey, don't worry about those billions of dollars, just enjoy them." What exactly do you think that money belongs to? Just to refresh your memory, that is taxpayer money being pulled directly from our own citizens, diverted from our domestic investments, our public sectors, and our social safety nets, only to be handed over to someone else. And make no mistake, that capital will HAVE to be returned because this isn't a gift; it’s a loan, and it comes with interest. This is nothing more than cold, hard commerce, stripped of any sort of moral compass.

Regarding the bolded portion, I find myself in agreement. Countries positioned at such a vast distance from the conflict won't feel even a ripple of the fallout, assuming there is any significant collapse to begin with.

After everything we've heard from the Russians and Putin himself since the start of this aggressive, unprovoked war, we still have people coming here to explain how Ukraine is to blame because Russia refuses to recognize them as a nation or acknowledge their right to exist.
It's amusing to read how much you embarrass yourselves with the nonsense you spout on this forum. ☕
Mark Carter14 Mark Carter14 Member
32 messages
joined Apr 2012
#3723 ·
Japan makes its stance clear: We aren't walking away from the Sakhalin-2 oil and LNG project

On Tuesday, May 31st, Japan's Minister of Economy, Trade, and Industry, Koichi Hagiuda, told Parliament that Japan isn't pulling out of the Sakhalin-2 oil and gas project alongside Russia—not even under pressure.

“Sakhalin-2 is an asset our predecessors worked incredibly hard to secure. Sure, Russia might own the land, but the leases and the equipment used for liquefaction and transport belong to the Japanese government and Japanese companies. We have no intention of leaving, regardless of what people say,” the Japanese minister stated, according to Eadaily.
....
“Japan is well within its rights to stay involved in those Russian oil and gas projects on Sakhalin. It’s high time these self-appointed judges, who think they know exactly how countries should protest the Russian military operation in Ukraine, learned to look at the bigger picture and think long-term,” said Hari.
wearytrucker22 wearytrucker22 Active Member
222 messages
joined Dec 2012
#3724 ·
velvetscout10 said:Canada is exempt from the European Union's oil embargo on Russia, which means they’re still going to be trading oil with them
Since ExxonMobil runs our local refineries, does that mean we Americans aren't actually sweating the fuel shortage anymore? And more importantly, are prices finally gonna drop?

The price difference for low-quality Russian URAL oil compared to this same date last year is about $6-$10 per barrel. Last year it was $65 versus $72 yesterday.
https://www.neste.com/investors/mark...rence#ec500bb6

electricsurfer47 said:Can someone help me out here? I heard Mexico signed some kind of gas deal with Russia the other day.

Here's my question: Mexico isn't part of the EU, but let's say almost everyone in Europe agrees to stop importing gas. Are we going to block their imports? Like I said, Mexico isn't in the EU, but they're pretty much surrounded by the EU.

The EU won't try to block anything, but it won't be able to pass through EU borders. They can move it by plane, or maybe via the river.
bluerider63 bluerider63 Regular
382 messages
joined Jan 2013
#3725 ·
So, Ursula von der Leyen is pretty much throwing a fit because after yesterday's oil embargo, Russia decided to pull a self-inflicted wound by cutting off gas supplies to some parts of Europe 😁
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#3726 ·
bluerider63 said:So, Ursula von der Leyen is pretty much throwing a fit because after yesterday's oil embargo, Russia decided to pull a self-inflicted wound by cutting off gas supplies to some parts of Europe 😁

Do you even realize that in this whole mess, Russia is the one who committed aggression against another sovereign nation and could literally end this war tomorrow just by pulling their troops out?
bluerider63 bluerider63 Regular
382 messages
joined Jan 2013
#3727 ·
Christian Torres3 said:Do you even realize that in this whole mess, Russia is the one who committed aggression against another sovereign nation and could literally end this war tomorrow just by pulling their troops out?

Honestly, someone needs to break it to von der Leyen that certain European countries deciding on their own to stop importing gas is actually a win, since it means they won't be footing the bill for the Russian war machine anymore.
Bryan Booth82 Bryan Booth82 Regular
483 messages
joined Feb 2024
#3728 ·
bluerider63 said:So, Ursula von der Leyen is pretty much throwing a fit because after yesterday's oil embargo, Russia decided to pull a self-inflicted wound by cutting off gas supplies to some parts of Europe 😁

The aggression against Ukraine was really just the beginning of Russia’s own dismantling—you hit the nail on the head there.

As for the lady in question, she actually has quite a sense of humor; I’ve caught her on German TV a few times, and honestly, she might have been better off pursuing a career in comedy... but hey, it is what it is.
Best regards,
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#3729 ·
Interesting read on why gas prices are climbing.
Most people point to crude oil as the culprit, but there's a massive role played by refinery profits—and the big oil companies pulling the strings behind them.

Here’s why gas is pricier than ever despite lower oil costs

Crack expansion has always been a quiet tax on consumers, but lately, that weight has become massive. Margins hit a staggering record of nearly $55 per barrel of gas last week, according to what Bloomberg reported Monday. To put that in perspective, the crack spread averaged roughly $10.50 per barrel between 1985 and 2021—it barely even cracked $20 back when refineries were actually struggling to keep up with demand.

The crack spread has long been an extra burden shouldered by consumers, but the size of that burden has surged in recent weeks. The margin hit a record of nearly $55 per barrel of gasoline last week, Bloomberg reported Monday. By comparison, the crack spread averaged about $10.50 per barrel from 1985 to 2021, and only rarely rose above $20 when refiners were swamped with demand.
Carl Lee27 Carl Lee27 Regular
368 messages
joined Feb 2024
#3730 ·
casualtiger2 said:Interesting read on why gas prices are climbing.
Most people point to crude oil as the culprit, but there's a massive role played by refinery profits—and the big oil companies pulling the strings behind them.

Here’s why gas is pricier than ever despite lower oil costs

Crack expansion has always been a quiet tax on consumers, but lately, that weight has become massive. Margins hit a staggering record of nearly $55 per barrel of gas last week, according to what Bloomberg reported Monday. To put that in perspective, the crack spread averaged roughly $10.50 per barrel between 1985 and 2021—it barely even cracked $20 back when refineries were actually struggling to keep up with demand.

The crack spread has long been an extra burden shouldered by consumers, but the size of that burden has surged in recent weeks. The margin hit a record of nearly $55 per barrel of gasoline last week, Bloomberg reported Monday. By comparison, the crack spread averaged about $10.50 per barrel from 1985 to 2021, and only rarely rose above $20 when refiners were swamped with demand.

The truth is, refineries are seeing these insane profits simply because there aren't enough of them left! For years, nobody bothered to invest in new ones, all while operating costs kept climbing because of this whole green agenda push. All those theories claiming that someone is intentionally keeping refineries offline are total BS—in the US, they're running at record capacities, some hitting nearly 98%.
By the way, Russia is also a major exporter of petroleum products, including stuff like VGO which, ironically, is exactly what refineries need to keep things moving.
cosmicmoose2 cosmicmoose2 Active Member
66 messages
joined May 2016
#3731 ·
Carl Lee27 said:The truth is, refineries are seeing these insane profits simply because there aren't enough of them left! For years, nobody bothered to invest in new ones, all while operating costs kept climbing because of this whole green agenda push. All those theories claiming that someone is intentionally keeping refineries offline are total BS—in the US, they're running at record capacities, some hitting nearly 98%.
By the way, Russia is also a major exporter of petroleum products, including stuff like VGO which, ironically, is exactly what refineries need to keep things moving.

So why aren't we investing more in production capacity? Does it even make sense to put money into building new refineries anymore?
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#3732 ·
Does anyone happen to know which specific entities in Germany are actually buying up rubles just to cover their gas bills? ☕
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#3733 ·
analogbear5 said:Honestly, this post is just pure dehumanization. It’s like you don't even see them as people—so you just don't care when entire cities get completely leveled, right? Of course you don't.

And then, after all that, you act all concerned about "pensioners"—who I guess are somehow beneath you because you actually have a decent retirement fund. Please, let's not pretend, otherwise someone might think you're actually part of the working class, when really, you're just some high-society gentleman retiree, not some struggling senior citizen.

In your whole nihilistic vibe, I guess it's really just about your own bruised ego. Maybe find a hobby? Go paint some watercolors or something. You'd probably be more useful to society that way.

Look, I'm not trying to play lawyer here, but...
There are literally five armed conflicts/wars going on right now with over 10,000 victims each, where things are just as bad—if not worse—than what's happening in Ukraine
How many posts have you or your little "moral police" buddies actually left on those threads?
crimsoncyclist71 crimsoncyclist71 Active Member
175 messages
joined Aug 2016
#3734 ·
darkdriver said:Look, I'm not trying to play lawyer here, but...
There are literally five armed conflicts/wars going on right now with over 10,000 victims each, where things are just as bad—if not worse—than what's happening in Ukraine
How many posts have you or your little "moral police" buddies actually left on those threads?

So you're telling me it's inhumane to care about one person's suffering more than someone else's?
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#3735 ·
crimsoncyclist71 said:So you're telling me it's inhumane to care about one person's suffering more than someone else's?

Honestly, this PDF is such a solid confirmation of Einstein's theory of relativity and how space actually curves in the real world.
Thanks for dropping another example that proves it
slyfox43 slyfox43 Regular
292 messages
joined May 2023
#3736 ·
The argument suggests that because our capacity for empathy is finite, we ought to deny everyone support simply because we can't distribute it equally to every single soul. But the core issue with whataboutism isn't just calling out hypocrisy; it's an attack on the very principles being applied inconsistently in the first place. It’s the idea that "nothing is better than nothing."

Whataboutism is really just nihilism and cynicism masquerading as righteousness.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#3737 ·
darkdriver said:Look, I'm not trying to play lawyer here, but...
There are literally five armed conflicts/wars going on right now with over 10,000 victims each, where things are just as bad—if not worse—than what's happening in Ukraine
How many posts have you or your little "moral police" buddies actually left on those threads?

The reason I'm even talking here is because there are enough people in this thread to drown out the trolls and the intellectual seven-year-olds.

And for me, the death of a civilian in Syria, Palestine, or Ukraine is equally tragic.
feralnomad35 feralnomad35 Member
35 messages
joined Jun 2017
#3738 ·
darkdriver said:Look, I'm not trying to play lawyer here, but...
There are literally five armed conflicts/wars going on right now with over 10,000 victims each, where things are just as bad—if not worse—than what's happening in Ukraine
How many posts have you or your little "moral police" buddies actually left on those threads?

It’s just common sense that Americans are going to pay more attention to, and be more affected by, a war in Europe than one happening somewhere else entirely.

I mean, logically speaking, losing a family member hits a lot harder than some neighbor losing someone, right? 🙄

We all know that every single human life has equal value—that goes without saying. But it’s only natural that the media and public focus would lean toward a conflict in our own backyard rather than a war on the other side of the planet. It’s the same logic: if a massive conflict broke out in Canada, the coverage would be even more intense than what we see regarding Ukraine. That isn't hypocrisy; it's just how humans work.

Honestly, you're the only one here sounding hypocritical, peddling these empty narratives.
crimsoncyclist71 crimsoncyclist71 Active Member
175 messages
joined Aug 2016
#3739 ·
darkdriver said:Honestly, this PDF is such a solid confirmation of Einstein's theory of relativity and how space actually curves in the real world.
Thanks for dropping another example that proves it

I honestly don't get why you weren't affected when my wife passed away.
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#3740 ·
analogbear5 said:The reason I'm even talking here is because there are enough people in this thread to drown out the trolls and the intellectual seven-year-olds.

And for me, the death of a civilian in Syria, Palestine, or Ukraine is equally tragic.

If you're measuring how much someone actually cares by their post count, or even by the ripple effect those deaths cause in the world, well... I mean, it's kind of funny how some people feel totally fine calling everyone else immoral when they aren't exactly doing better themselves.

Glad to see the rest of the crew is on the same page.

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