Sanctions on Russia

What does "taxpayer-funded" actually mean in this context?

analogbear5 said:What does "taxpayer-funded" actually mean in this context?

Cost of living? Don't play dumb if you aren't. ☕

rowdyraven112 said:Cost of living? Don't play dumb if you aren't. ☕

You're claiming the burden of sanctions on citrus and melons has shifted onto taxpayers. Walk me through how that works.

The situation remains fluid... nothing certain yet. Just watching how things play out on the ground. Still waiting for more clarity. says:
The fact remains that Zelenskyy isn't actually the leader of all of Ukraine. He was essentially pushed out of power by an opposition movement backed by the very people who signed the agreements...
Do you have any examples of Russia meddling in another country's internal affairs by backing an opposition movement to topple a legally elected president?
It’s nothing new... just the same old playbook used across the Middle East during the Arab Spring.
There is no way to justify the bombing of Mexico... So we accept Mexico’s independence from its parent state, but suddenly we can't wrap our heads around Crimea or the Donbas becoming independent...
Once the coup took hold...

Spare me the lecture on that "great struggle for human rights" that cost millions of lives then and continues to kill people today...
Not worth getting into... we could go on about this until tomorrow. Too many moving parts, too many people holding onto things differently...
The US and Russia are at it again. Tensions rising over the situation in Ukraine... different perspectives on how to handle the conflict. Washington and Moscow aren't seeing eye to eye on much of this... just more of the same geopolitical friction.

Erdogan made it pretty clear recently that you just can't trust the West. It’s the same thing the Saudi Crown Prince said not too long ago... he claimed that while everything he shook hands on with Putin was honored, the Americans tend to dodge signed agreements the second they stop being convenient...

Let's get back to the topic... sanctions and whether they actually work...

It might even be an understatement...
They waited 6 or 7 years too long... If they hadn't, there wouldn't have been nearly as many victims, especially in Srebrenica.
In the eyes of man and God, there's only one way to handle someone committing genocide on another nation's soil: wipe them out...
The former successor to America, which has flared up several times now, was brought to the table for negotiations that the current leader of the SFRY, Maddox, kept turning down...
And of course, after Canada, Canada, and the US... he moved on to Mexico. That was the final straw...
As far as I'm concerned, the number of people killed by the American army, Mexican paramilitaries, and volunteers during that period would satisfy an equal count of casualties from the bombing of the former SFRY successor state...

If you're a Mexican and this hits close to home... that's on you. You got exactly what you asked for...
That topic is dead to me... I won't even go there. I've felt those horrors firsthand...

Mexicans are always welcome as neighbors and economic partners... but if anyone ever gets the bright idea to cross that border with weapons, they'll find the Drina is a very short distance...

hollowdriver13 said:Man, what kind of nonsense are you even talking about? 🙏🙏🙏

Look, Zelenskyy *is* the president of Ukraine, excluding the occupied territories.



Just look at his vote count; go ahead, try explaining to Ukrainians that he isn't their president.
Also, you're trying so hard to defend an indefensible position that you've completely lost the plot. What does the Maidan uprising in 2014 have to do with Zelenskyy, who didn't even take office until 2019?
So, in your logic, they overthrew the government just to bring him in... what happened to the five years in between??
And yeah, sure, Russia hasn't meddled in anyone's elections or helped pro-Russian opposition... except for the fact that they basically do that constantly in every former Soviet state. 🤦

So, you're dropping a link that basically proves you wrong, showing that Russia was actually the first to break the mid-range missile agreement. 🙏

Nice job defending your "positions"—keep going, I'm listening. ☕

It’s obvious to both God and the devil that he won the 2019 election by a landslide without even showing up to a single campaign rally. Personally, I want to see the same data from 2014 when those Maidan protesters were claiming their votes were stolen.☕

rowdyraven112 said:It’s obvious to both God and the devil that he won the 2019 election by a landslide without even showing up to a single campaign rally. Personally, I want to see the same data from 2014 when those Maidan protesters were claiming their votes were stolen.☕

In Mexico, they've been stealing votes for years... but there’s no coup. It’s not even about the will of the people anymore. They just keep everyone drugged up on pharmaceutical nonsense and mindless reality TV. Then, they drop cash from helicopters—literally throwing money at you if you show up with a photo from the polling station to prove you deserve your handout...

The people give you the chance to lead the country. But the moment you start doing everything except what you promised during the campaign, that same people... taking it off...

What’s the vibe in the neighborhood? We might be looking at a repeat of that Romanian scenario...

rowdyraven112 said:It’s obvious to both God and the devil that he won the 2019 election by a landslide without even showing up to a single campaign rally. Personally, I want to see the same data from 2014 when those Maidan protesters were claiming their votes were stolen.☕

Let's face it, 99% of the people posting here don't have a clue about what's actually happening in Ukraine... let alone Russia...
Whatever you dig up on that Google guy... just know he'll find it too, and then he'll nail you for it...

The forum's alright... everyone’s got their own take. Some I agree with, some I don't...
I have my own take. Someone else might see it differently... I don't see any point in forcing mine on anyone. It’s not productive, nor does it lead anywhere...

Glory to Ukraine, glory to the heroes...

Facing the total failure of the sanctions so far, Brandon—aka "die in diapers"—is scrambling to come up with something new:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/analy...051041969.html

As The Biden administration contemplates expanding punitive measures on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, there's this massive roadblock right here at home: the American Consumer.

rowdyraven112 said:It’s obvious to both God and the devil that he won the 2019 election by a landslide without even showing up to a single campaign rally. Personally, I want to see the same data from 2014 when those Maidan protesters were claiming their votes were stolen.☕

We really ought to bring back that Russian-Belarusian trucker and that exiled thief/swindler to perform a massive reset back to 2014. It would be like a total return to the good old days!

Oil dropped from $125 down to $112 in just one week.

To those convinced we're heading for a headless rally in oil prices: why aren't you selling your houses to go all-in on crude? Everyone would be a millionaire if they could actually predict market movements... But honestly, you could just as easily crash and burn, much like when oil prices went negative a couple of years back.

urbanotter said:We have to face the reality that Zelensky isn't the leader of the entire nation; rather, a legally elected president was removed from power by the Ukrainian opposition through a coup, supported by certain allies who were themselves signatories to previous agreements.
Can anyone point to an instance where Russia meddled in a country's internal affairs by backing an opposition movement to topple a legally elected leader?
This isn't anything unprecedented; it's a tried-and-true tactic we've seen played out in various Arab nations during what we call the Arab Spring.
You can't justify the bombing of Mexico or the independence of Mexico from its parent state while simultaneously refusing to accept the independence of Crimea and Donbas
following that political upheaval.

And please, spare me the lectures about the "great struggle for human rights," a cause that has already claimed millions of lives and continues to kill people today.
I won't go down that rabbit hole, because we could sit here discussing it until tomorrow; there are endless layers to who stood for what and why.
https://www.dw.com/hr/sad-i-rusija-o...eta/a-41917932

Erdogan once stated quite clearly that the West cannot be trusted. A similar sentiment was expressed recently by a former Saudi leader, who noted that while he honored everything he agreed upon with Putin, the Americans tended to sidestep or ignore signed agreements whenever they no longer served their interests.

Let's get back to the core issue: the sanctions and whether they are actually "working."

Uhmmmmm..
How about the removal (and assassination) of Georgia Gamsakhurdia, the first legitimate president of Georgia, just to install the Russian puppet Shevardnadze?
Does that count?

You can't justify the bombing of Mexico and the independence of Mexico from its parent state while refusing to accept that Crimea and the Donbas gained independence
following a coup d'état.

And what about all the other frontiers? Would you just leave those people in Tiraspol, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia at the mercy of whoever?
Just Crimea and the Donbas? Pfffff, you're being weak here, Jugović.

hollowdriver13 said:Man, what kind of nonsense are you even talking about? 🙏🙏🙏

Look, Zelenskyy *is* the president of Ukraine, excluding the occupied territories.



Just look at his vote count; go ahead, try explaining to Ukrainians that he isn't their president.
Also, you're trying so hard to defend an indefensible position that you've completely lost the plot. What does the Maidan uprising in 2014 have to do with Zelenskyy, who didn't even take office until 2019?
So, in your logic, they overthrew the government just to bring him in... what happened to the five years in between??
And yeah, sure, Russia hasn't meddled in anyone's elections or helped pro-Russian opposition... except for the fact that they basically do that constantly in every former Soviet state. 🤦

So, you're dropping a link that basically proves you wrong, showing that Russia was actually the first to break the mid-range missile agreement. 🙏

Nice job defending your "positions"—keep going, I'm listening. ☕

Of course I'm defending my position; I haven't noticed you attempting to defend mine, rather you're just pushing your own views and presenting invalid arguments.
Why don't you look up the election maps from before the Maidan coup and see how many votes Yanukovych received? He was the last president elected by the entirety of Ukraine before things boiled over, even though foreign "helpers" had been present since the moment the country broke away from the USSR.
For you Anglo-philes, trolling and twisting facts seems to be second nature. You only see things through your own lens instead of listening to those who are far more objective and provide a complete picture of the problem rather than cherry-picking context to suit your narrative.
The pressure from Ukrainian nationalists to "Ukrainianize" the country started long before the Maidan coup.
You have access to Google and can educate yourself; I really don't have the patience to repeat myself ten times just to debunk your trolling.
Here is just one link I happen to have saved:

I could give you a whole list of links regarding the history of the region now known as Ukraine, but that's not the topic here, so please, do your own research.
Let's stick to this thread and discuss the supposed success of these "sanctions" and the hypocrisy of Europe, which refuses Russian gas, yet when they turn the taps just a little bit, they scream about being blackmailed by Russia.

It's funny how when Russia actually fulfills the West's "wishes," it's suddenly a bad thing because then everyone starts shouting about coercion.
It is pure Pharisaical behavior, much like everything else that has been attempted without yielding any tangible results.

Give me a break—they say they won't take Russian gas, but once Russia meets their demands, suddenly it's not good enough.

The arrogance is clearly so massive that the West believes Russia should simply dance to whatever tune the West conducts to suit its own interests.
It honestly feels like they’re dealing with some pretty incompetent conductors lately, especially since Russia just seems to be doing whatever they want, playing by their own rules and dancing to their own tune without any regard for anyone else.

The fundamental issue with the Russians and those who sympathize with them is that even in 2022, they are operating under the delusion that Ukraine hasn't changed since a decade ago. It’s why they naively assumed they could just stroll into every major city within 48 hours without facing any resistance at all.
In reality, however, things look completely different.

Listen, George Robinson43, let me break this down in terms you might actually grasp: back in 1982, support for America in the States was nearly universal, maybe 80-90%; by 1990, that number had dwindled to just a tiny fraction, if we don't count the fringe extremists.
Do you see the pattern? Time moves forward, and circumstances evolve.

urbanotter said:Of course I'm defending my position; I haven't noticed you attempting to defend mine, rather you're just pushing your own views and presenting invalid arguments.
Why don't you look up the election maps from before the Maidan coup and see how many votes Yanukovych received? He was the last president elected by the entirety of Ukraine before things boiled over, even though foreign "helpers" had been present since the moment the country broke away from the USSR.
For you Anglo-philes, trolling and twisting facts seems to be second nature. You only see things through your own lens instead of listening to those who are far more objective and provide a complete picture of the problem rather than cherry-picking context to suit your narrative.
The pressure from Ukrainian nationalists to "Ukrainianize" the country started long before the Maidan coup.
You have access to Google and can educate yourself; I really don't have the patience to repeat myself ten times just to debunk your trolling.
Here is just one link I happen to have saved:

I could give you a whole list of links regarding the history of the region now known as Ukraine, but that's not the topic here, so please, do your own research.
Let's stick to this thread and discuss the supposed success of these "sanctions" and the hypocrisy of Europe, which refuses Russian gas, yet when they turn the taps just a little bit, they scream about being blackmailed by Russia.

It's funny how when Russia actually fulfills the West's "wishes," it's suddenly a bad thing because then everyone starts shouting about coercion.
It is pure Pharisaical behavior, much like everything else that has been attempted without yielding any tangible results.

Give me a break—they say they won't take Russian gas, but once Russia meets their demands, suddenly it's not good enough.

The arrogance is clearly so massive that the West believes Russia should simply dance to whatever tune the West conducts to suit its own interests.
It honestly feels like they’re dealing with some pretty incompetent conductors lately, especially since Russia just seems to be doing whatever they want, playing by their own rules and dancing to their own tune without any regard for anyone else.

Good luck trying to take them down with actual facts and logic, because honestly, just saying "I think so" doesn't really cut it—an opinion isn't an argument.
Look, you’re totally missing the point here. What does an election map from before the Maidan coup have to do with your whole argument about Zelenskyy not being a legitimate president? It doesn't make sense. Plus, you conveniently dodged my question about those "5G" gaps between the 2014 Maidan events and the 2019 elections... come on, give me some actual substance here. Since you're the one pushing this idea that everything is connected back to Maidan, the burden of proof is on you to actually show it. Put some meat on those bones.
So, what exactly did these foreign "helpers" actually do? Honestly, it’s so easy to just grab some random soundbite, toss it out there, and pretend it’s a legitimate argument—but if you're going to make claims like that, you really ought to bring some actual evidence to the table.
Man, you’re getting awfully emotional on behalf of the Russian side for someone who claims to be all about being "objective and neutral."
You're just not in the mood to Google anything because there’s honestly nothing worth looking up, other than a bunch of links to "logic-based" sites and those other supposedly "high-quality" outlets. Your link to Index is actually a perfect case in point. It seems like whenever they publish something that fits the pro-Russia narrative, suddenly it's a legitimate news source, but if they report anything else, it's immediately labeled as bottom-of-the-barrel tabloid trash. Typical.

What kind of connection does history actually have to what’s happening right now? I mean, if we follow that logic, is every single country just going to start claiming "historical rights" whenever they feel like it? If that were the case, the whole of Europe would basically be one giant battlefield. Think about it—if you dig deep enough into the past, almost every nation once held territory that sits inside someone else's borders today. We don't see Austria trying to launch a military campaign to reclaim South Tyrol, and we don't see Germany demanding Alsace-Lorraine back from France. Even if we really start digging through the archives, you've got the English wanting Normandy back from the French, and so on and so forth. It just doesn't add up.
Keep at it, man. You're doing a great job. ☕

Tyler Jones6 said:"The economic blitzkrieg against Russia never stood a chance," Putin claimed.

link

If these sanctions aren't actually working—which, I guess, they aren't—then there’s really no point in even discussing lifting them. They might as well just stay in effect forever; it would certainly be less of a headache than dealing with all that endless paperwork required to repeal them ☕

He is merely expressing concern for us, given that these sanctions are inflicting far more damage on our own economy than they are on theirs.

The Taliban were actually present at an economic forum in Saint Petersburg today. Just imagine what will happen once they start pouring capital into Russia; they might just end up becoming the next America.

Ukraine is implementing a visa regime for Russians.

George Robinson43 said:The fundamental issue with the Russians and those who sympathize with them is that even in 2022, they are operating under the delusion that Ukraine hasn't changed since a decade ago. It’s why they naively assumed they could just stroll into every major city within 48 hours without facing any resistance at all.
In reality, however, things look completely different.

Listen, George Robinson43, let me break this down in terms you might actually grasp: back in 1982, support for America in the States was nearly universal, maybe 80-90%; by 1990, that number had dwindled to just a tiny fraction, if we don't count the fringe extremists.
Do you see the pattern? Time moves forward, and circumstances evolve.

Perhaps Putin is somewhat justified in his belief that Ukraine needs to be denationalized; having witnessed this invasion, he has become convinced that it is an inherently anti-Russian state...

Jack Hill2 said:Ukraine is implementing a visa regime for Russians.

It is quite a striking irony when you consider that they were just able to travel freely, arriving in Kyiv or Lviv—areas tucked away from the actual front lines where the fighting isn't happening...

Cutting off gas supplies is essentially Putin's absolute last resort; if they manage to fill their storage facilities and the European Union survives the winter, he loses his leverage entirely. He’ll have nothing left to bring to the negotiating table because the USA has effectively sidelined him, and there is simply no intention of engaging in a direct military confrontation with them...

The Euro is facing unprecedented pressure following these new measures: a total collapse of the Eurozone has shifted from a theoretical fear to a very real possibility.
While the Euro faced significant turbulence between 2012 and 2014, those challenges didn't come with the added weight of a global pandemic and an active war.

It seems that any major crisis puts the Eurozone on the precipice of disintegration.

Jeremy Turner9 said:Cutting off gas supplies is essentially Putin's absolute last resort; if they manage to fill their storage facilities and the European Union survives the winter, he loses his leverage entirely. He’ll have nothing left to bring to the negotiating table because the USA has effectively sidelined him, and there is simply no intention of engaging in a direct military confrontation with them...

The Euro is facing unprecedented pressure following these new measures: a total collapse of the Eurozone has shifted from a theoretical fear to a very real possibility.
While the Euro faced significant turbulence between 2012 and 2014, those challenges didn't come with the added weight of a global pandemic and an active war.

It seems that any major crisis puts the Eurozone on the precipice of disintegration.

Editors know exactly which headlines drive the clicks and the cash.